Any New Models Out?

[PeaceBlondie]

so theres no loss of performance after 5 years on the engine? not talking about the the actual engine design, but engine wear after 5 years...compared to a new bike

in another post you were talking about the lack of a tach on the tiger, riding this cbr now i understand where youre coming from about the need for a tach, especially for the cbr....i dont shift by tach i shift by sound and pull...but sometmes i look down and realize im in the redzone and shift up to get it out of the redzone.

i find myself usually shifting around 9000 rpm after 1st gear, very easy to redline these bikes....before hitting top gear because it climbs so smoothly...i think with a longer stroke, this bike is a potential mini monster in disguise.

Most of the Honda CBR150 posts, over 700 of them, are here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Honda-Cbr150...80#entry2420053

Vato, I misunderstood your question. At 55,000 km, a mere 55 million meters, the engine was still able to pull me to over 135 kph, but I was no longer commuting on the superhighway and might have still made it to 142 indicated, tucked in. So no noticeable decrease in top end power. I have not even tried to get my new CBR150 to top speed, but it would be the same as the 2003 model was at trade-in, I suspect. I understand they come stock with a rev limiter, but cannot tell my experience, because I never double-downshifted accidentally, and usually watch the tach if it is approaching 11K.

I am tone deaf even when not wearing a full helmet. I cannot differentiate between the sound of 8900 or 10900. Today I had to ride my partner's Honda Phantom 200 about 20 km on the highway. It has six gears, 200 cc, etc., but no fuel gauge and no tach. I had no idea after hitting over 100 kph if I was over-reving the engine. I consider a sportbike without a tach to resemble a woman without mammary glands - you feel sorry for her and she does not look quite right, but can get the job done anyway.

[Bowery99]

Vato sorry, just reading this thread I have to ask, why on earth would you take the thermostat out? Are you not then just asking to be over heated? The thermostat serves the purpose of cooling the engine, when it is open all of the time it would only let the engine heat up and not cool, no? The closed system is when the coolant is being cooled by the radiator and the fan. If it stays open the radiator doesn't serve the purpose of having it, does it? The coolant would just rush though it as if the engine was cool still. it closes when it gets hot and opens again when the coolant has gotten cooler again.

I do understand getting frustrated with a stuck thermostat that wont open causing overheating, I just can't see the logic of this; although it may take a bit longer to heat up, in a hot place like Thailand surely it will get hot enough to overheat. I can see how this might work on a very large displacement engine like a big old truck, that was used for short trips in a cold place, but on a 150cc?

If I am missing something please let me know.

Edited December 21, 2008 by Bowery99

[Vato]

with these bikes its really hard to differentiate the difference in rpm just by sound, with a two stroke the sound gets higher in pitch...but the cbr seemingly has a fairly constant pitch but gets louder, i usually shift this bike when it stops pulling in that gear....but the power is really smooth and i AM surprised by it...not really that far off from an NSR....when downshifting to a lower gear it behaves like a two stroke, without much compression drag at all...another surprise

good to hear a five year old engine is still compareable in top end.

[Vato]

the thermostat is only there for when you startup the bike so it warms up faster....the thermostat opens when the water gets hot, closes when it cools...you have it backwards....the thermostat stops water flow, allowing it to heat up locally, faster....once the water gets hot the spring softens and the pressure from the impeller circulating the water has enough force to push the spring back and open the thermostat.

the water has to flow in order to be efficiently cooled down...lack of water flow and pressure build up from the impeller, leads to busted hoses.

half the cars you see on the side of the road overheated are do to a stuck thermostat, where the ductility of the spring has changed and is no longer able to open because it has become so stiff...this method of treating metal to become harder is known as tempering.

you cant always just take it out though, for some engines you have to match the flowrate of the thermostat...this is done by simply maching a washer to match the flow rate.

[Vato]

I like the look of the CBR, its a much nicer looking bike than mine, plus I wish mine had a bigger fuel tank. Having said all of that, I bought my bike from the Suzuki Factory in Bkk for just 48k, brand new, ride away price. I have since done a heap of mods, making it a much better ride, but the thing still owes me about 63k.....it goes like a scalded cat (for a 150) & is still cheaper than a CBR.

The bike is almost 2 years old & the only repair it had done was the timing chain tensioner, which Suzuki had been experiencing problems with and came up with a re-designed jobby. I am surprised by all the repairs to your bike.

The other day I was in a friends car and we drove past a Suzuki dealer just outside Bangkok on the road to Hua Hin & I saw a spanking brand new Suzuki Raider sitting there.

the radiator fins were dented in from flying debris (probably from a dirt road) and could no longer cool efficiently, the starter seals were worn and somebody put epoxy over the seams to keep the water out...muffler innards are a normal wear item you have to repack eventually...other than that there are no repairs to the bike.

1.tires

2.battery

3.paint

4.oil change

are not considered repairs...most every place that sells used bikes will give new tires (wreck liability), change the oil and replace the battery for you.(bike sits until its sold, battery becomes bad)

[Bowery99]

Vato, that is only half of the thermostats job. I am sorry but I suspected that you thought this way. I was a mechainic long ago and this is a common misconception. You are right that it is closed to heat the engine up but the coolant is used to cool the engine more than heat it, hence the name.

It is also closed (or partly closed) to cool the coolant down.

From Yahoo answers and about autos, but it applies here

"The thermostat's job is relatively simple, but extremely important. It regulates the engine's operating temperature. It does this by restricting the flow of coolant from the engine back to the radiator. The thermostat is usually located in a housing where the upper radiator hose is connected to the engine. The thermostat is a valve that is held shut by spring tension. A wax filled thermal element in the thermostat opens the valve. As the engine begins to warm up and the coolant gets hot, the wax inside the sealed element expands and pushes the thermostat valve open. This occurs at a preset temperature (typically 195 degrees F. or so), which is usually stamped on the thermostat itself. The thermostat should be fully open about 20 degrees F. above the rated temperature.

The opening of the thermostat allows coolant to circulate through the engine and cooling system. As the temperature of the coolant begins to drop, the wax element cools off and contracts allowing the thermostat to partially or fully close. Thus, by cycling open and shut a relatively constant operating temperature is maintained.

Thermostat Failure

The thermostat is pretty simple and rarely causes problems, but when it fails the results can be disastrous. The worst case scenario is when the thermostat sticks shut, which can happen if the wax element has been damaged by previous overheating, corrosion or age. If it sticks shut, it will block the circulation of coolant between the engine and radiator causing the engine to overheat.

If the thermostat fails to close, which can happen if the sensing element binds up, the return spring breaks or a piece of rust or debris jams it open, the constant flow of coolant through the thermostat will prevent the engine from reaching normal operating temperature. This can cause poor driveability in cold weather, a sharp increase in fuel consumption, little or no heater output, and accelerated blowby and ring and cylinder wear.

I have to add here: On a smaller engine like a motorcycle it can cause over heating as the coolant gets hot because it is never cooled enough in the radiator. The regulation of flow on a small engine is much more important, as if the coolant is rushed through the radiator too quickly if it is always open fully, never allowing it to cool.

Thermostat Checks

To check the thermostat, remove the radiator cap and start the engine while it is cold. Looking inside the radiator, you should see no movement of coolant. If you see movement, the thermostat is stuck open or is missing and repairs are required.

After the engine has run for five minutes or so, the upper radiator hose should start to feel hot signaling that the thermostat has opened and the coolant is now circulating through the system. Inside the radiator, you should also see coolant movement. If there is no movement (and the engine starts to overheat), the thermostat is defective and needs to be replaced.

A suspicious thermostat can also be tested by removing it from the engine and dropping it into a bucket of near boiling water. It should be closed when cold, then open once it hits the hot water, then close again after its been removed and allowed to cool. You can use a thermometer to check the exact opening and closing temperature."

Edited December 22, 2008 by Bowery99

[thaicbr]

Also here in Thailand its dam_n unlikely that shops will spend money they do not have to. For Thai's if it looks pretty then they buy it. I would go over that bike with a fine toothcomb.

Allan

[Vato]

thanks for your help and concern bowery, but years of replacing thermostats with washers with proper flowrates, tells me i'll be ok and better off without it...but you never know until you try, and when i try i'll let you know if its a go or a no go.

thaicbr...look at what i paid for the bike...for a 3 year old bike it better dam_n well have new tires, battery, oil and paint for that price....and like i said the radiator and starter were still functioning, i just wanted them changed for peace of mind...the cost for a new radiator is a measely 1200 baht.

and the shop probably bought the bike for 20,000 baht and sold it to me for 45,000 baht..so they are making a big chunk of change off of me...and spending an extra 3000 baht to clean it up in order to make a profit of over 20,000 baht isnt something i see as unrealistic.

ive looked at bikes in the 25,000-35,000 baht range from private owners and they were all shit....both thai and farang owners...the farang owners were the worst ones.

and i cant be travelling to chiang mai or phuket to get a bike since im in bangkok.

if you bought a secondhand bike, would you not also want to change the tires, battery and oil? and a paint job if it was starting to fade?

PS...the extra holes in the airbox trick does not work on this bike..whoever suggested it was a moron...yes i did it today, it got louder and thats about it AND lost acceleration...waste of time, now i have to seal it back up.

[PeaceBlondie]

I stopped buying used bikes after two disasters, in Latin America. But if I bought a used one now, I would not change the tires and battery unless they had obvious wear. Mai bpen rai, your bike is all sorted, and you did not have to spend 66K for it.

[thaicbr]

Vato i spent about 2 weeks doing different jets, pulling the induction ram etc. and decided to go back to stock carb settings. my mechanic tells me the best mods are change the carb for the same type as the nsr and throttle. put a k&n type big pod filter, race cam and a decent down pipe and muffler and he reckons a reliable 170kmh top end with smooth acceleration. i didn't try it simply because i could not find down time for my bike at the time and have now sold it.

also what tyres/sizes did you have put on. also I'm not sure the bike shop would have brought it that low but who knows, i got offered 27thou for mine from the shop i brought it from 5 months ago for 32,000 + transfer but sold it for 32,000 on Saturday private sale( it did have about 4,000 baht of new stuff on it). still not sure why you don't just put a new thermo in with new coolant (i found the best coolant is the Honda premix in the blue bottles).

Allan

[Vato]

in the other cbr post, i was talking about a mod where taking out the resistor in the sparkplug boot will yield a spark that should be 5 times more powerful...

the resistor is there to reduce emf frequencies that may interfere with stufff like radio signals...the thai cbr guys have been doing this for about a year now without any adverse effects documented yet...that and along with gapping the plug to 1.1mm will deliver a stronger and longer arc.

i'll pick up an iridium plug by ngk model #CR8EVX and try it out and see how it works out...im going to use bosny epoxy concrete cement as a mold, drill it and pour the purest silver i can find into the hole and make a solid conductor in place of the resistor...the conductor is approximately 5mm x 20mm

the thai guys are using cut bolts or fabricated copper conductors, two are using silver.

the tire sizes are 80/90 front and 90/80 rear - Camel racing tires...will change rubber if i still have the bike during rainy season...

for the air filter i want to go with a longer pipe instead of a shorty cone filter, the longer tube from the air intake will be more driveable, with short air intakes from what ive experienced you lunge forward as soon as you let off the gas.

next would be a downpipe, but i want to find one with mandrel bends and not the type with the sections put together...for the silencer im going to try fabricating something similiar to a supertrapp muffler...with carbon fiber body to compensate for the additional weight.

i sold a 1 year old honda FSX to a secondhand dealer and they gave me 28,000 baht hence my estimate of the shops purchase price.

about the thermostat i just want to experiment a little because i think the bike runs just a little too hot, this is cool season and during the hot season i can only see it running hotter, and trying harder to maintain temperature...but i havent taken a good look yet, so i have to check it out first and see if it will be feasible...i just want to drop the temperature a little...but mobil 1 may be able to handle that instead...

hit 140kph today and hit the limiter...it sucks when your hauling then all of a sudden you get lunged forward when the ecu cuts out., i wasnt even in top gear yet...im going to try and track down the voltage reading and insert a resistor into the circuit to increase the cutoff...if i can find it...

cleaned out the gas tank today and cleaned the fuel filter and blew air through the gas valve...performance improved by about 15%...went back and sealed the airbox back up, throttle response is back to normal and the noise came way back down, it was almost twice as loud with the holes in the airbox...my ears were literally ringing.

[thaicbr]

OK you want to do Mods that Thai's do. good luck! I would only do real world performance mods. and those tyres are crap. camel and racing in the same statement, don't make me laugh.

Platinum will give you the same performance but i would advise against both plugs and Thai mod cos if you do melt a plug you really do not want platinum or iridium melted onto ya piston.

also hot season or cold your cbr should run at about half or just below on the meter.

cbr150club.com guys have the pipe ya want also reworked cdi.

Allan

[Bowery99]

in the other cbr post, i was talking about a mod where taking out the resistor in the sparkplug boot will yield a spark that should be 5 times more powerful...

the resistor is there to reduce emf frequencies that may interfere with stufff like radio signals...the thai cbr guys have been doing this for about a year now without any adverse effects documented yet...that and along with gapping the plug to 1.1mm will deliver a stronger and longer arc.

i'll pick up an iridium plug by ngk model #CR8EVX and try it out and see how it works out...im going to use bosny epoxy concrete cement as a mold, drill it and pour the purest silver i can find into the hole and make a solid conductor in place of the resistor...the conductor is approximately 5mm x 20mm

the thai guys are using cut bolts or fabricated copper conductors, two are using silver.

the tire sizes are 80/90 front and 90/80 rear - Camel racing tires...will change rubber if i still have the bike during rainy season...

for the air filter i want to go with a longer pipe instead of a shorty cone filter, the longer tube from the air intake will be more driveable, with short air intakes from what ive experienced you lunge forward as soon as you let off the gas.

next would be a downpipe, but i want to find one with mandrel bends and not the type with the sections put together...for the silencer im going to try fabricating something similiar to a supertrapp muffler...with carbon fiber body to compensate for the additional weight.

i sold a 1 year old honda FSX to a secondhand dealer and they gave me 28,000 baht hence my estimate of the shops purchase price.

about the thermostat i just want to experiment a little because i think the bike runs just a little too hot, this is cool season and during the hot season i can only see it running hotter, and trying harder to maintain temperature...but i havent taken a good look yet, so i have to check it out first and see if it will be feasible...i just want to drop the temperature a little...but mobil 1 may be able to handle that instead...

hit 140kph today and hit the limiter...it sucks when your hauling then all of a sudden you get lunged forward when the ecu cuts out., i wasnt even in top gear yet...im going to try and track down the voltage reading and insert a resistor into the circuit to increase the cutoff...if i can find it...

cleaned out the gas tank today and cleaned the fuel filter and blew air through the gas valve...performance improved by about 15%...went back and sealed the airbox back up, throttle response is back to normal and the noise came way back down, it was almost twice as loud with the holes in the airbox...my ears were literally ringing.

Well, good luck with the new bike anyways. I too, would stay away from the SP mods, a hot plug will deliver more power but heads, pistions etc.....are engineeried to specs so you can melt and burn things pretty good this way espy. since you seem so concerned about running hot..........but that is just me.

A cdi, (and if it doesn't have one a tac) are always good investments instead of <deleted>*king around with the circuts on your ecu. Getting more than they limited it to, I think is a pretty general practice and for the most part, a safe thing to do.

Not too surprised about the airbox experiment, more air = rejet on most bikes (which I think will happen when you go tube type filter as well). Plus your new tail pipe, I would think you will be having to do it (rejet) anyway and no doubt it will be louder with the tube filter/non factory exhast.

Really one of the best advices I ever got in my life was when I went blower on one of my cars that was from the 70s (a vega with and 8 cyclinder). My boss (the shop owner) said "just buy for your needs, if you think you need a faster car, buy one. The time and money you spend makin this POS fast is going to make you broke, save up and get what you want instead. There are plenty of things you can do to make this a racer but you drive on the street, so what is the point? If you want to race, buy a race car and do it on a track where it is at least a bit safer and don't expect racing mods to last in the real world of street driving because they are not designed for that. People who design them know how to get more out of them than you do." He was right, first I blew out the suspesion and later the engine. After that I bought an old cop car with a 440 and drove it for 5 years (plenty fast enough) with no major problems and only small modifacations. Nowadays I jus don't see the point of going too fast, but to each his own.

[Vato]

thaicbr...what is your problem? you havent ever even tried these tires, or the mod to the spark plug wire and are constantly assuming things...let me tell you something there have been many world records broken in various industries here in thailand, but the thai mechanics dont have the money to ship cars abroad to compete on an international level.

i compete in car audio contest here and its always a laugh when a team from abroad comes and expects to show the thai's how to do something, and get redfaced, pissed and lose face when they come in last...and start making excuses when they didnt win.

you would be well advised not to brush off some of the information you gain while here...

youre behaviour is very close minded and actually worse than somchai a thai mechanic.

i give up on you, go play with your jets and try to increase performance .

Edited December 24, 2008 by Vato

[Vato]

bowery there have been no adverse affects reported from the sparkplug boot mod...more than likely the silcon sparkplg boot mod that people on this forum have been doing simply has the resistor removed...you just cant see it.

i design, build, replicate and repair car amplifiers class a/b and class d...so im not a stranger to circuits.

[thaicbr]

VATO now who is presuming. HOW do you know i haven't tried the tyres. HOW. i had camel race tyres on a kawasaki before.

AND YES you are very correct about SOME thais being very good at modifictaion work. and NO i will not try an unproven mod when i can get similar results using proven parts eg platinum plugs.

And let's face it Vato, Thais are very,very good at making a noise its almost a national sport.

AND LASTLY what my problem is that you should report the mods when YOU have done them and tell US your personal opiniun NOT 3rd party ideas. how many of these cbr wonder mechanics are running a road bike with no air filter IS this a good idea. i would say no not sure what you would say.

All we are saying is be careful with your pride and joy. its very hard to get correct information here and even harder to find a decent mechanic for your bigbike, small bike or car. I am lucky i have found one now and i hope you are as lucky.

ride safe. Allan

[thaicbr]

double post

Edited December 24, 2008 by thaicbr

[neverdie]

all the meanwhile my raider 150 is still sucking the doors off CBR150 ies.

[thaicbr]

neverdie hehehehehehehehehe. BUT it ain't got doors....................maybe the paint as you go past!

[Vato]

VATO now who is presuming. HOW do you know i haven't tried the tyres. HOW. i had camel race tyres on a kawasaki before.

AND YES you are very correct about SOME thais being very good at modifictaion work. and NO i will not try an unproven mod when i can get similar results using proven parts eg platinum plugs.

And let's face it Vato, Thais are very,very good at making a noise its almost a national sport.

AND LASTLY what my problem is that you should report the mods when YOU have done them and tell US your personal opiniun NOT 3rd party ideas. how many of these cbr wonder mechanics are running a road bike with no air filter IS this a good idea. i would say no not sure what you would say.

All we are saying is be careful with your pride and joy. its very hard to get correct information here and even harder to find a decent mechanic for your bigbike, small bike or car. I am lucky i have found one now and i hope you are as lucky.

ride safe. Allan

not even worth my time.

[Vato]

all the meanwhile my raider 150 is still sucking the doors off CBR150 ies.

i raced a raider 3 days ago, but wasnt sure if he was dedicated to it...i blew him away at the start and popped up to 4th gear then cruised, he then came screaming past me while i was at cruise speed...about 3 seconds later.

Edited December 24, 2008 by Vato

[neverdie]

all the meanwhile my raider 150 is still sucking the doors off CBR150 ies.

i raced a raider 3 days ago, but wasnt sure if he was dedicated to it...i blew him away at the start and popped up to 4th gear then cruised, he then came screaming past me while i was at cruise speed...about 3 seconds later.

Certainly wasnt me then Vato, I've always got my raceface on, especially if its a silly farang wants a drag . Having said that, I'm not sure which bike is quicker off the mark or through to certain speeds, but I thought it was the raider....if all things are stock. Having said that, different sprockets etc will change the outcome.

I most certainly at a disadvantage off the mark because I'm about 90kg & most of the thai guys zipping around the place are 50kg, which makes a fairly big difference when it comes to pea heart sized motors. Anyway, cheers & make sure you keep a watch on my tail-light

[Vato]

all the meanwhile my raider 150 is still sucking the doors off CBR150 ies.

i raced a raider 3 days ago, but wasnt sure if he was dedicated to it...i blew him away at the start and popped up to 4th gear then cruised, he then came screaming past me while i was at cruise speed...about 3 seconds later.

Certainly wasnt me then Vato, I've always got my raceface on, especially if its a silly farang wants a drag . Having said that, I'm not sure which bike is quicker off the mark or through to certain speeds, but I thought it was the raider....if all things are stock. Having said that, different sprockets etc will change the outcome.

I most certainly at a disadvantage off the mark because I'm about 90kg & most of the thai guys zipping around the place are 50kg, which makes a fairly big difference when it comes to pea heart sized motors. Anyway, cheers & make sure you keep a watch on my tail-light

im 80 kilos, but my bike is heavier so if i catch you at a stoplight it should make for a pretty even race...i love it when you pull up to a stoplight, and you can tell the guy next to you is up for a redlight drag...put both hands on the bars, elbows up, head stooped forward anticipating the green..lol

make sure your helmet's windshield is down ,because i wouldnt want to get exhaust in your eyes

you see a cbr with a bronze padlock on the right passenger peg thats me.