Motorbikes Are A Social Menace

[mahtin]

This year I was in Chiang Mai and, stopped by a BIB to allow several hundred school kids to ride out of the school on bikes at the end of the day. NONE, not a SINGLE ONE, was wearing a helmet. All happily zooming off, 1, 2 or even 3 to a bike.

I wrote to one of the Chiang Mai magazines, suggesting that if they wanted to do something for road safety, the easiest, simplest and cost free way is to not allow a single student to ride home on a bike without a helmet. Just get a couple of BIBs to stand there, not to set up a 200 Baht/head end of month bonus collection point, but to simply stop the pupils riding out without a helmet. In 24 hours there would be a massive increase in wearing helmets.

Can't argue with that

[jdinasia]

What is there to argue about in the article? Are you all missing that they are not talking about the average young adult but "marginalized" youth -- or as we would say in other lands --- "at risk" youth?

The thing is it doesn't offer any real alternatives, now does it?

In the end, the youths might be involved in road accidents, crime, and create weakstructured families based on casual sex, which also posed a risk of HIV infection, she said.

So obviously having a working reproductive system etc is a problem too! -- the article is just a sop to the grannies ... something to remark upon the group that annoys them the most.

[neverdie]

Yeah buying a motorcycle always leads to Unsafe sex & HIV.

[Super Hans]

I like the sound of a "virtue camp".......sponsored by the police!

Enforced by Garro!

[Zzinged]

Somehow I'm not surprised at this article. It seems like just another sensationalist article finding something to complain about. Note how the writer suggests parents coach kids about 'safety' and 'not riding fast'. A better suggestion would be to coach the kids on road regulation rather than just 'safety' It comes across as;

Safety = wear a helmet

Not riding fast = 50km/h

So now I can ride a bike at 50km/h wearing a helmet... down the wrong side of the road into oncoming traffic.

A better question would be 'How can we better transform these 'marginalised youths' into upstanding members of the community?' Somehow I suspect these 'virtue camps' are aimed at the more serious nutcases. What Thailand needs is a better support system in general for young people, and better licensing. Something requiring the endorsement of licensed motorcycle instructors in order to actually take the licensing test proper would be a step in the right direction.

"...but instead of coming home early the kids could come home later at night. Youths often decorated their motorcycles and joined in activities such as playing snooker or joining a gang, she said.

In the end, the youths might be involved in road accidents, crime, and create weak structured families based on casual sex, which also posed a risk of HIV infection, she said."

There are so many things wrong with that quote, it made me laugh out loud.

1. Suggesting that not having their own motorbike would deter them from being out late

2. What the hel_l does snooker have to do with anything =\

3. Gangs? Once again, not having a motorbike of their own means they don't join gangs at all?

4. Crime? You don't need to have your own motorbike to commit a crime...

5. Casual unprotected sex is a direct result of having a motorcycle? Shouldn't that be another issue all together?

Motorcycles are dangerous. It is a statistical fact. Riding in cars is more dangerous than riding in airplanes, and riding a motorcylce is more dangerous than riding in a car.

You can reduce the risk significantly by riding in a same, safe manner. But the bottom line is that if you are in an accident on a bike, you are far more likely to get hurt than if you are in a car. you can be riding in a law-abiding manner 60 kph down a four-lane road, but the guy next to you in a pickup swerves into your lane and you are riding a car, you will probably suffer no worse than a dented door. If the same thing happens while you are on a bike, you will more likely be killed or seriously hurt.

Lets not forget that the issue here is that motorcycles make young people evil, late-returning, casual sex having, HIV infected, gang member, road menacing, reckless street racing, crime committing, no goods. THAT is utter bullocks. Sorta like blaming crimes on video games.

[mahtin]

What chance does a young guy without a mb have of getting laid?

Sheesh, I'd want one too

[jdinasia]

The article really is very pathetic ... the problem for 'at risk youth' is now motorcycles ... not a cruddy education, poor opportunities for work and advancement, poverty, drugs, etc ... just motorcycles

[Lickey]

Being a biker of 40 odd years, when i came to live in Thailand 2.5 years ago, watching bikers made me cringe and worry for them, the way they enter a main road without looking where the danger comes from,

Now i watch them,and i dont care anymore, if they have an accident, its not going to hurt me.

[RusticCharm]

Have you seen some of the honeys on the back of these little things? Their skirts hitched up around their thighs. No side-saddle for these hussies.

[MJP]

Yes, motorbikes are dangerous. I like this example. Look up right now and find a wall that is only 22 feet (6.7 meters) away. Imagine smashing your body against that wall, half a second from now. That is what happens if you fly off a motorbike going 48 km per hour. And if you are standing at a traffic light at zero km per hour and fall to the ground without a helmet, the brain injuries could kill you, as they killed my best student.

Do you remember getting your driver's license and enjoying high speed? Thai teenagers are not ready for it, usually. Add in the untrained drivers, alcohol, yaabaa, dogs, mobile phones, and it is a lethal mix.

Drink, exuberance, motorcycles (even small ones) and youth.

The deadly consequences of which I witnessed sitting about 2 metres away on Koh Samet. Drunk youths on 125's slammed into each other doing about 60 kph on the only concrete road on the island.

Poor kid was killed instantly.

I seem to remember the road death toll report for the New Year holiday a couple of years ago. Over one thousand killed in four days. Every single one a motorcyclist.

My wife is determined I don't buy a big bike. I'm not going to challenge her on this one. I'm getting too old, unfit and my responses are slowing. Mind you I have learned never to challenge the old goat on anything really, except having to eat Issan food, over which we have come to an understanding.

If I could bring myself to fork it out, we'd have one of those Volvo SUV's.

[sendbaht]

I really enjoy riding my motorbike here in Thailand. I feel safer riding here then back in the US. The reason is that in the US I was at times the only one on a MC with 100 cars around me. Here in Thailand seems 70% or more are MCs. Also, not all, but I find the Thai's are pretty good motorcycles riders due to the fact that they have been riding for years. Now the youth, god lovem. I know when I first stated driving but in the 1960s I would take my dads car with no seat belt on and cruise at 100MPH up and down the Pacific Coast Hwy. I see a Thai young cruise by me at 50Kph and I just say a silent blessing to keep him/her safe until they grow up.

[endure]

Motorcycles are the most dangerous gift Thai mothers can give their children, as bikes could lead to accidents or youths getting involved in crime, researchers said yesterday.

Panadda Chamnansuk, a lecturer from Kasetsart University's Faculty of Social Science, told a meeting of the National Health Foundation and the Accident Prevention Network her interviews with youngsters showed that motorcycles were tools that gave "marginalised youths" an identity.

If she's a lecturer in Social Sciences shouldn't she be enquiring into the fact some youths feel marginalised rather than making assumptions about their modes of transport?

[JimsKnight]

An interesting article on the recently introduced helmet law in Vietnam:

Hanoi

A law enforcing crash helmet use for Vietnamese motorcyclists has saved more than 1,000 lives and prevented over 2,000 serious injuries in a year, the World Health Organisation said today. But the WHO stressed that the law must be enforced for under- 16s, many of whom now ride as passengers without helmets because of a widespread and misguided belief that helmets can damage their necks." Thanks to the introduction of mandatory helmet laws there are more people alive today to enjoy time with their family and look forward to Tet ( Lunar New Year) celebrations," said WHO country chief Jean-Marc Olive ."The alternative does not bear thinking about," he added in a statement, released one year after the helmet law started to be enforced with fines." There is no simpler message - helmets save lives."

Attention must now be turned to the vast numbers of Vietnamese children who do not wear helmets when they are passengers on a motorcycle. "WHO said National Traffic Safety Committee statistics showed that road traffic deaths had fallen by more than 1,400 and serious injuries by over 2,200, by the end of October 2008 compared to the same period a year earlier. New regulations now also give police the power to fine motorcycle riders and passengers who do not correctly fasten their helmets and those who wear helmets that do not meet national safety standards, said WHO.

The UN health agency said it was working with Vietnam on a law to penalise adults who allow children to ride on motorcycles without helmets.

The authorities in Thailand would do well to emulate these actions.

Yeah, just what we need, more control and over-regulation telling people what to do.

Let the people chose themselves what they do with their lives not some tin-pot beaurocrat.

We have quite enough of that back in Euro-land thank-you very much

[Bard]

Machines are not a menace people are.

Since around 80% of all accidents with motorbikes is caused and faulted by cars, guess they are looking in the wrong end. Yes motorbikes are dangerous, but guess what there is 3 times more risk for teenagers being seriously hurt (worldwide) by riding a horse than a motorbike, so they have to bulldoze all horses as well?

The way to fight accidents are educating the riders better, educating car drivers to be more observant, and as they've done in Norway and Sweden made highways motorbike safe, by not using concrete blocks but soft sticks and safe shoulders to slide on. So one of the high risks there is lowered (cars not seing you pulling over and pushing you into a concrete road shoulder, now they go through the soft sticks and slide off in grass shoulder with minor damage to bike and none to the riders...

For me this is an attempt to put a finger without looking at all the aspects, and not look for solutions by a motorbike hater as usual.

Let's summarize the risk with a motorbike, you will get seriously hurt much easier in an event of an accident, you have a very high risk of being hit by a car who "didn't see you"

The benefits are they take up way less space on a road, pollute way less, use way less parking space.

I do agree that there are far higher risk involved in riding a motorbike, and I do believe the should all come sold including boots, jacket, gloves and a proper helmet, pants would not hurt either. Also they should have a much better training program for new riders, and why not use classes in school to educate the youth about it? Funny that in countries they take this seriously they have a far lower accident rate, still the highest risk is cars, so they should maybe start training them better in living with bikes in traffic as well...

There is many ways of looking at a thing, and trying to work with what you have and improve it normally works wonders in comparison with prohibitions and bombastic rules. People are supposed to be free to choose, and not being dictated there life. I am glad I don't live in China under commys, thank God for that, I remember we had the Commys as the bad guys and we were free, but there is lots of people who seems to think dictatorship is way to go it seems.

Cheers Bard

[neverdie]

Machines are not a menace people are.

Since around 80% of all accidents with motorbikes is caused and faulted by cars, guess they are looking in the wrong end. Yes motorbikes are dangerous, but guess what there is 3 times more risk for teenagers being seriously hurt (worldwide) by riding a horse than a motorbike, so they have to bulldoze all horses as well?

The way to fight accidents are educating the riders better, educating car drivers to be more observant, and as they've done in Norway and Sweden made highways motorbike safe, by not using concrete blocks but soft sticks and safe shoulders to slide on. So one of the high risks there is lowered (cars not seing you pulling over and pushing you into a concrete road shoulder, now they go through the soft sticks and slide off in grass shoulder with minor damage to bike and none to the riders...

For me this is an attempt to put a finger without looking at all the aspects, and not look for solutions by a motorbike hater as usual.

Let's summarize the risk with a motorbike, you will get seriously hurt much easier in an event of an accident, you have a very high risk of being hit by a car who "didn't see you"

The benefits are they take up way less space on a road, pollute way less, use way less parking space.

I do agree that there are far higher risk involved in riding a motorbike, and I do believe the should all come sold including boots, jacket, gloves and a proper helmet, pants would not hurt either. Also they should have a much better training program for new riders, and why not use classes in school to educate the youth about it? Funny that in countries they take this seriously they have a far lower accident rate, still the highest risk is cars, so they should maybe start training them better in living with bikes in traffic as well...

There is many ways of looking at a thing, and trying to work with what you have and improve it normally works wonders in comparison with prohibitions and bombastic rules. People are supposed to be free to choose, and not being dictated there life. I am glad I don't live in China under commys, thank God for that, I remember we had the Commys as the bad guys and we were free, but there is lots of people who seems to think dictatorship is way to go it seems.

Cheers Bard

[wrathfultalon]

People blame everything on the instruments that they USE to perform these acts of stupidity.

From motorbikes to guns to the latest Jordan sneakers, people try to find a culprit to blame for hooliganizm. The problem is the people and society they are brought up in. I am an American and long before we had motorcycles, kids were racing around on horses killing each other doing stupid stuff. Goverments try to legislate us into the ground to prevent similar acts of stupid. But it really comes down to upbringing and education. You cant really get mad at someone for doing what everyone else does. Its in our nature to go with the grain, and if you have nothing else in your life why would you want to?

My GF wants a son since she feels little boys are so "lovely". I see them doing stupid acts on motorbikes adn point it out to her and she simply accepts it as what boys do. This tells me that there are underlying issues that need to be resolved prior to blaming all the evil acts of the world on an inatimate object.

Do motorcycle accidents kill, maim and injure people? Absolutely.

But if we are going by only that, why is smoking and drinking legal?

Its a proven fact smoking and 2nd smoke causes respitory failure, cancer and death. Period.

Drinking unresponibly causes accidents, fights, liver and kidney damage and death. Period.

Heck unprotected sex can result in unwanted pregnancy, STD's that cause death to you and everyone you come into intimate contact with!

in the end the only way to avoid this is to educate. Provide proper training and the tools needed make these people understand what is going on.

[Thaddeus]

Machines are not a menace people are.

Since around 80% of all accidents with motorbikes is caused and faulted by cars, guess they are looking in the wrong end.

Years ago back in the UK, there were a series of Public Information Films, they were 30 second snippets in between TV programs.

One I remember especially, was aimed at car drivers and being more aware when pulling out of junctions.

A set of adds like this, say at around 6pm (maybe with HM endorsement) could work wonders.

[mr_hippo]

Motorcycles are dangerous. It is a statistical fact. Riding in cars is more dangerous than riding in airplanes, and riding a motorcylce is more dangerous than riding in a car.

Can you produce these 'facts'? Stats can be used to 'prove' anything - did you know that in 2007, more Thais died in Bangkok than farang so that must mean Bangkok is safer for farangs than it is for Thais!

[wrathfultalon]

Machines are not a menace people are.

Since around 80% of all accidents with motorbikes is caused and faulted by cars, guess they are looking in the wrong end.

Years ago back in the UK, there were a series of Public Information Films, they were 30 second snippets in between TV programs.

One I remember especially, was aimed at car drivers and being more aware when pulling out of junctions.

A set of adds like this, say at around 6pm (maybe with HM endorsement) could work wonders.

i would have to agree that you get people that the community looks up to practicing what they preach you will get more people following suit.

[GizmoBKK]

IMO, the question is not how old you are when you are riding a bike, at what speed you travel, or if motorbikes in general are more dangerous than other means of transportation.

The underlying problem in Thailand is the complete lack of road safety education.

I took the theoretical and practical test for a driving license in Thailand. In the theory test, there was not a single question on braking distance or safety distance. And the practical test is the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen in my life; about 30 m of riding are required. As long as you are not completely drunk and will fall off the bike, for sure you'll pass the test.

Thus, possession of a completely legitimate driving license does not necessarily mean the owner can drive.

I even talked to some Thai friends who are well educated and usually quite fast on the road with their cars. They are completely unaware of physics, and they have never heard of any formula that gives you the braking distance in dependence of the speed!

So, the whole thing is not just about irresponsible parents. Education about road safety (and the physics involved) should be implemented in the schools, and PR is required to increase safety awareness. Who has ever seen "Der 7. Sinn" on German TV knows what I am talking about.

Have a safe ride!

Edited December 26, 2008 by GizmoBKK

[undercover]

The problem with Asia is the mixture of cars and bikes together, the bikes fill in the area around the car, the car has to move over for some reason, bike has to move over into the path of another car, it just snowballs from then on