Patong Becoming Too Expensive?

[Samuian]

22 BHT. to the $$$$ ??

There other dollars outside of the American one you know ??

Malaysia Dollars?

Hong Kong Dollar

Singapore Dollar

Taiwan Dollar

Canadian Dollars?

New Zealand Dollars?

Aussie?

as it has been said... if it's Dollar only one usually refers to the US$

[LivinLOS]

Malaysian Dollars... Whats todays rate on them then ?? How many to a Ringgit ??

[CroBiker]

Malaysian Dollars... Whats todays rate on them then ?? How many to a Ringgit ??

[basjke]

It's still, dirt cheap, compared to Europe...when did you have Lobster in Europe, or just a humble Steak? Even Pizza, is cheaper here then in Italy!

I been in europe beginning this month and noticed on the menu that the lobster is cheaper in Europe then here in Pattaya walking street.It was in a decent restaurant,not 3 stars,but higher class then I have ever seen in walking street. I assume that Phuket is even more expensive.

[Samuian]

Malaysian Dollars... Whats todays rate on them then ?? How many to a Ringgit ??

It's not traded in Forex - 10-1 ThB-MR! ~

[Ulysses G.]

Some Americans should realise that they didn't invent the "dollar" as a unit of currency, and that there are something like 25-30 others countries using the term dollar for their money.

While the Op should have specified what currency he was talking about, the more astute were able to work it out from the value quoted.

The dollar has been the safest/most wanted currency around the world for many decades and I don't mean the Australian one. if you talk about "dollars" internationally and you are not specific, it will be assumed that you are talking in U.S. dollars. If you want to to talk about Aussie dollars, you need to say so.

[Macx]

LivinLOS is just stating it as it is. He isn't slamming the inexpensive lifestyle. I believe he's saying what I and most of my friends here think.

I too miss my toys back home. To bring them here would be almost as expensive as buying them again. Don't even think about trying to buy them here.

And for the record, basjke, lobster in Hawaii is also cheaper than in Phuket

But I'll have to agree with Samuian on the pizza.

[LivinginKata]

LivingKata, i have a question.

Why do home builders not rent @ 5000 baht cheaper or 10 000baht cheaper for 4-6months rental types. i know theres a HUGE ammount of people who'd love to rent a house for 2-3-4-5months only and not have to pay insane ammounts for a cheap built house+ cheap furniture(most of what is available for rentals) but people seem to ask for 2-3x their monthly bank payment so tourists end up staying in hotels for 9-10k baht a month outside of patong

it doesnt take a 3rd grader to figure out that renting 5-10kbaht cheaper to short term tourists all year long is better than waiting 1 year to rent it with a little more profit.

I ask you because you must know a lot of people with many houses for rent

Not really sure aboubt the logic of your question ??

You can't just assume all homes are cheap builds. In my opinion (as a home builder & rentor) the rates for a 2 bed luxury apartment are far cheaper than renting 2 rooms high season on Phuket Island. Longer term rents (as in 6+ months) are way much cheaper than renting hotel rooms. I find it astonshing what some people want to pay (as in how low) for a quality apartment.

Your question displays your lack of knowledge/understanding on this complex subject, especially from an owner's point of view.

[canadianmonkey]

It's still, dirt cheap, compared to Europe...when did you have Lobster in Europe, or just a humble Steak? Even Pizza, is cheaper here then in Italy!

I been in europe beginning this month and noticed on the menu that the lobster is cheaper in Europe then here in Pattaya walking street.It was in a decent restaurant,not 3 stars,but higher class then I have ever seen in walking street. I assume that Phuket is even more expensive.

not only is it cheaper in europe and canada, all of those things are cooked by people who have a clue on how to make them taste real good...

[canadianmonkey]

LivingKata, i have a question.

Why do home builders not rent @ 5000 baht cheaper or 10 000baht cheaper for 4-6months rental types. i know theres a HUGE ammount of people who'd love to rent a house for 2-3-4-5months only and not have to pay insane ammounts for a cheap built house+ cheap furniture(most of what is available for rentals) but people seem to ask for 2-3x their monthly bank payment so tourists end up staying in hotels for 9-10k baht a month outside of patong

it doesnt take a 3rd grader to figure out that renting 5-10kbaht cheaper to short term tourists all year long is better than waiting 1 year to rent it with a little more profit.

I ask you because you must know a lot of people with many houses for rent

Not really sure aboubt the logic of your question ??

You can't just assume all homes are cheap builds. In my opinion (as a home builder & rentor) the rates for a 2 bed luxury apartment are far cheaper than renting 2 rooms high season on Phuket Island. Longer term rents (as in 6+ months) are way much cheaper than renting hotel rooms. I find it astonshing what some people want to pay (as in how low) for a quality apartment.

Your question displays your lack of knowledge/understanding on this complex subject, especially from an owner's point of view.

all i can say is i come from a first world country

where for 5mil baht i can get

fully furnished with high quality furniture, high quality floors, washer dryer, in front of a great elementary school in a very calm neighboorhood, 5mins from a highschool and college, 2mins by walk ffrom breakfast+fastfood place, 2 wineries less than 5mins, 1 municipal park 7mins

Then i come to a third world country with nothing but a beach and they ask you 40k baht a month or 7-9 mil for something well.. third worldish which they have built in a way to save as much money and furnished at the lowest cost possible

My point is, home and condo owners in thailand try to overprice their rental and i want to understand why instead of overpricing and taking 2 years before finally finding a fish thats willing to overpay, they don't simply rent at a reasonable price as my landlord did to avoid wasting 8-24months of no income.

[logbags]

This has turned into a very good thread. I thought I must of been the only one who thought things were bloody ridiculous. Look, you can still live cheap in Phuket no doubt, but the nightlife and other attractions are way overpriced for the general state of the country. I think the chickens are coming home to roost and things will work themselves out in the long run for the better. Maybe a few years of short term pain are needed for a bit of reality to level it all out.

I get totally amused by the attempts to paint Bang Tao and Cherng Talay as some upmarket idyllic haven. It is a very strict Muslim area and like Kamala is very quiet and you cannot even buy petrol after 10pm at night except at the new auto machine that charges more. There is a place called the Black Cat and a few nice places leading to Laguna but it is still very quiet. The beaches at Laypang and Layan are OK but cannot compare to Nai Harn and Surin. The water is just not clear and the sand is more like Samui. Honestly some of my local beaches here in Australia are way way better. Not cluttered with chairs either.

I think a lot of people holiday here and they then think they could live here full time. I have found the reality to be very different as you then have to deal with local government, officials and police and this is where you really get pounded if you dunno how to handle yourself or speak the language.

I was recently pulled over by the cops at the intersection where they wait nightly near Kamala. I only have an Aussie car license and it was picked up by the cop who had two stars so was a bit more savvy than the average private. He said it was a car license and was illegal. I said I had been using it for 20 odd years and it was always OK. He said his commanding officer wanted this enforced.

I said give me a break! don't just enforce those laws where you get an earn, if you are going to do that I want that taxi driver who just rode past without a lid pinched as well. After a bit of banter he said he was too lazy to argue this with me and handed me back my license. This was a first and my girlfriend laughed and said she couldn't believe he backed down.

I often see middle aged western couples in places like Bang Tao and you can virtually see the dream unraveling, they move here expecting the life they had on their yearly holidays but then realize you are treated quite differently if you move here and try to live alongside the locals. That's why I never do, I'll mix and socialize with them but come night time I want some peace and space which you just don't get living in a village where everyone know exaclty what everyone else it up to.

I keep to myself but still know people from this forum simply from their cars I see on the road and can virtually guess who they are at times. Now if you live in a place like Bang Tao and get around a bit, before long your whole life will be an open book, so remember this if planning a move here. I rented a jeep of my mate in Patong to go to a funeral in Phang nga, the clutch blew so I left it beside the rode and stood waiting for a bus.

A van pulled up and these people called my name telling me to jump in, I didn't know them but they said they knew me and they were from Thalang, they drove me all the way back to Patong telling me about all my relatives and stuff. I was a bit confused and still am how they knew all about me. They said they were at the funeral so someone must of given them a run down on my life

[HDRIDER]

HI

What i can see some house prices is start coming down, more i hope i am looking to buy one in Nai Harn, how long should i wait, i think at least 6-8 months more.

How do you guys see the outlook for buying house

[basjke]

HI

What i can see some house prices is start coming down, more i hope i am looking to buy one in Nai Harn, how long should i wait, i think at least 6-8 months more.

How do you guys see the outlook for buying house

I think you should wait no longer and take a look at this classified,there are more similar on the classified site.

Nai Harn

If the prices are really like that overthere I will come over to live there.However might be that they forgot to mention that the price is per week or maybe per day.

[CroBiker]

HI

What i can see some house prices is start coming down, more i hope i am looking to buy one in Nai Harn, how long should i wait, i think at least 6-8 months more.

How do you guys see the outlook for buying house

I think upcoming low season will be one of the worst in recent Phuket history.

With that in mind I believe some sellers will be quite desperate to sell for greatly discounted price, say around June, July 2009....I am referring to people who owe on mortgage etc.

Currently, I am trying to sell small piece of property and hoping to complete it before high season ends.

[Sir Burr]

You can see the desperation on the Phuket property agent's web-sites. Lots of houses now have "reduced by X million Baht for quick sale".

Trouble is, is that the properties were grossly overpriced in the first place and the reduction still doesn't bring the price down enough. Too many "palaces" built on postage stamp size pieces of land.

I would say wait at least another year and a half. Next high season will be worse than this one. The low season after will be the time to buy.

[logbags]

That is per night, man I spend that in a week and that includes my girlfriends sons Uni fees LOL. For an Aussie 10,000 baht almost is 500 bucks and that's a pretty thick wedge for anybody. I used to live in the Tropica Bungalows in 1985. We paid 3,300 a month for a room for 3 of us. That's 1000 baht per month each. That was right opposite the beach when Patong was pretty pristine.

I then moved to the Dtong Tarn bungalows that were where the Irish bar is now. That was 1500 baht a month. I then really splurged and went to the Capricorn Bungalows which were just built by a guy I knew. That was a whopping 3,000 baht a month, way too high for me.

I then moved out of the big smoke to a place which was behind the Bangla Boxing stadium, it was a house that was 2500 baht a month but a hearty 150 metre walk to Bangla.

A lot changed when that Brian guy arrived, he came down from Pattaya with an American franchise type of mentality where he was pyramid renting land and stuff. I knew him very well for a while and listened to his plans of conquest. He certainly had some big ideas.......

[canadianmonkey]

Just asked around

In a nice town in NZ my friend is renting for 15000baht a month a nice furnished townhouse

... cant even get a 1bedroom in patong for that price

People on my street have paid 6 mils for unfurnished houses with 3 bedroom and only 2 storey with really small yards. most of them have to put their plants outside their gate in the street.

and this is not even in patong.. 6mils. for a measly 3 mil more in canada i had a 8 bedroom 2 kitchen 3 storey and a couple of living room's (modeled from the white house, with colums and the stairs) 3 place garage, and about 9 times the size of a yard, only 2 neighboor on the street and in my back i had a forest.

For that price in patong, u get a foil with 4 wood stick holding it to sell soup or a built in 1920 condo. i really dont get people who'd buy anything there. i could be a billionaire, i wouldnt like to get ripped off just because im staying 5mins from a terrible beach+hookers

[iko]

I've been living in patong for almost 3 years now; i think that if you want to live in a 2 weeks holidays area all your life long you're simply an idiot, and actually i'm currently acting like an idiot.

When some friends of mine ask me about the living costs here I normally say" If you want to live in a western way you'll pay a western price"; any book here starts from 500 baht (quite expensive for a 'normal' native), and I can find cheaper laptop and tvs in Italy (where I come from) and suppose also in usa or australia. Any other "second world" country is much cheaper than patong and normally you're not considered a idiot full of money and with a little conscience of his status like it happens here in patong.

About houses prices, I think only a moron could by a condo here or just a house. Not only the furniture is shit; all the building is built in a shit way, with shitty materials and by unskilled workers. the only real vantage here is about income taxation if u run a company; far more convenient than in Italy and, I suppose, in other western country. But retiring in patong (or in phuket too) with a 'normal' pension is totally non-sense.

[logbags]

I think Thailand may be forced to devalue the baht to stay afloat next year. They need to increase the value of exports but there is no demand, a cheaper baht would certainly help the tourist industry by increasing our spending power and bringing more cash in.

There is talk of Vietnam doing it so if they do it may force Thailand to act. There was a recent article about Malaysia being a real great place to retire to as they offer a lot of incentive to get you to move there. My mum showed me the article this afternoon.

It finished by saying Thailand is going to follow it with a special yearly visa for people over 50. (This has happened already has it not?)

I think the last post was blunt, but pretty much true. I really don't feel at ease at all in Patong anymore. Basically sleep there that's it.

[DLock]

Finally, some sensible and intelligent views on Phuket.

Great posts Logbags...you have really nailed the issues facing Phuket.

Iko, I totally agree with you and that was probably the prime reason I left Phuket 3 years ago - you can't live in a tourist resort - it's like living in Disneyland. I know people will say there are other parts of the island besides Patong, but they are still expensive, dirty, corrupt, congested and full of opportunists.

There are certainly better places in Thailand to live and holiday...and as much as I hate to say it, Pattaya may in fact be a better option to live nowadays.

Phuket will survive and people like me won't be missed. People who arrive today and have no history to compare things to will still think it's a fantastic place...and maybe even want to live in Disneyland.

[Briggsy]

Many things in Phuket are almost Western prices and they do not have Western quality. I stopped going there years ago as Pattaya is about 25% of the price for hotels,food and transport. You can't swim in the ocean, but a hotel with swimming pool goes for around 500 baht!

Agreed. Property speculation is certainly a factor.

IMHO, there are always rising property prices in Phuket, and I think Thailand in general, because in the good times prices go up, and in the bad times....nobody sells. Certainly the locals will never sell for lower than the last price they had in mind. So there is never a down turn, just a period with no transactions.

And lots of repossessions!

[pothai]

Any foreigner that bought a year or so ago with the correct banking documentation and wants to sell, should be able to sell at least 15% below purchase price and still make money if they transfer it back to where they come from....of course greed will get in the way and this wont happen.....Any one with any sense knows exactly how much building materials cost....ok cement has increased around 25% in 18 months......but PCC bricks are only 18 baht...Land cost is expensive but developers in Thailand and especially Phuket are after 300% profit margins......not happy making 30% -40%...thats why the prices are high but people will not be able to afford them now, thats a fact...however when business gets bad, prices dont come down, they go up to compensate for lack of customers

[logbags]

Any foreigner that bought a year or so ago with the correct banking documentation and wants to sell, should be able to sell at least 15% below purchase price and still make money if they transfer it back to where they come from.

## This is true if you can sell your place. I sometimes pick up a Phuket Gazette if there are no other papers left on the stand. There are houses that have been on the market for years and I wonder how much these people have actually spent on advertising or agents to try to move it. I see all the articles about high end living etc but think a lot of it is nonsense and blue sky selling. Bang Tao, Surin and Cherng Talay are still very old world and I laugh when I see that big silver BMW stuck in traffic on the way to some highend resort or the airport. It looks so out of place in these areas where the people are still very much bemused by all this hype.

of course greed will get in the way and this wont happen.....

What we call greed I see as insecurity, there is plenty on this planet to go around and greed is like an over-inflated sense of survival based on the fear of not having enough. No matter how much you acquire, one day you will die anyway. This is why most true blue Thais don't have that much materially and like a bit of sanuk. The Chinese are almost completely opposite in accumulating as they have this idea of "thaaw gae" or family patriarch. Thaksin and Banharn are good examples of this. Like a warlord mentality from fuedal China. Life in China was and still is harsh compared to the fertile and green Thailand. I've spoken to old Thai guys who have told me stories about guys like Jian Vanich the father of Phuket's Anchallee who is now very rich. Some of these Chinese families started by selling boiled eggs and fried bananas. Tin was also their biggest earner in Phuket. Now they wield a lot of power, especially as they own a lot of the land, banks, car companies etc. You have to admire their grift but on the other hand I agree with Errol Flynn and I think most Thais would too. Anybody who dies with 10,000 dollars in the bank has been a failure..........

Any one with any sense knows exactly how much building materials cost....ok cement has increased around 25% in 18 months......but PCC bricks are only 18 baht...Land cost is expensive but developers in Thailand and especially Phuket are after 300% profit margins......not happy making 30% -40%...thats why the prices are high but people will not be able to afford them now, thats a fact...however when business gets bad, prices dont come down, they go up to compensate for lack of customers

Exactly, I mean there is an old saying, the eyes believe themselves, the ears believe others. The labour cost is peanuts, a good tradesman I hear gets up to 450 baht a day now, it was always 100 years ago. A lackey gets 200 but if you then cut that in half by using some poor Burmese you can ramp profits by 100%. Then there is my old favourite and is based on the old feudal Chinese precept of "replacing pillars and beams" or substituting good quality materials for <deleted>. You draw your plans, build a show unit with top of the range fittings. Take all the deposits and then use inferior quality fittings that look identical to look at. Before the person realizes it is too late. I remember this German guy built a house on Nanai about 20 odd years ago. He made the mistake of leaving the purchase of cement etc to the builder. His house virtually feel down in less than one year. I mean this was hysterical as he was a German pilot in WW2. We used to take the piss and tell him, ""We thought you guys were the master race? You certainly aint the master builders." It cost him 300,000 including land so he was a good lesson for all us amused observers.......

[LivinLOS]

What we call greed I see as insecurity, there is plenty on this planet to go around and greed is like an over-inflated sense of survival based on the fear of not having enough. No matter how much you acquire, one day you will die anyway. This is why most true blue Thais don't have that much materially and like a bit of sanuk.

But then how does that statement fit in with the Thai way of spending everything they have and more on depreciating items ?? You see it all the time where Thais are living in 1m baht homes driving a >1m baht car !!

Truly insecure people crave stability and savings, and dont spend money of frivolous items that drop in value fast as a way to gain face.

[LivinginKata]

I hear gets up to 450 baht a day now, it was always 100 years ago. A lackey gets 200 but if you then cut that in half by using some poor Burmese you can ramp profits by 100%.

Sure, the Burmese working for a big company get paid peanuts, as do Thais, but the freelance Burmese workers want at least as much as Thais workers. We tried hiring a Burmese crew once. Much to my surprise this was a bad experience ..... expensive, lazy, poor workmanship, ended up sacking the lot of them. We would never use a Burmese crew again.

[LivinginKata]

But then how does that statement fit in with the Thai way of spending everything they have and more on depreciating items ?? You see it all the time where Thais are living in 1m baht homes driving a >1m baht car !!

Because it's all about showing off. Driving an expensive car is a mobile advert about their visual display of wealth.

[HDRIDER]

Hi

In patong, Nanai villa, there is a house there used to cost 16Mill, now its down to 10Mill.

[LivinLOS]

Hi

In patong, Nanai villa, there is a house there used to cost 16Mill, now its down to 10Mill.

The list is a long one.. I know of a small house with seaview thats at about a fair price.. Its been for sale for maybe 4 years now..

The big (Eric the) Viking has a house with pool thats been on the market for at least 5 years..

A house on the southerbys property site last year, asking 10m on that site, asking 4m locally still without offers (that was a steal IMO)..

I dont know where this booming market really is, new builds to first time Thai buyers is my guess, who believe the hype and market pumping in the local papers. Higher end stuff still sells new..

[logbags]

Because it's all about showing off. Driving an expensive car is a mobile advert about their visual display of wealth.

## Why? Because they feel inferior by not having something. That is normal and happens EVERYWHERE, in Australia it is chronic, we had the poorer Greek and Italian migrants with the '<deleted> palace' and '<deleted> Mercedes' (a Chrysler Valiant) and now we have huge places being built by the Vietnamese. I know Vietnamese who have really expensive motors on the 'never never' but live in an old weatherboard house. All poor people want to rise up and have something, my dear old dad came out to Oz after the war with the shirt on his back. His generation had nothing so didn't need much. They didn't however have the internet, TV and the media bombarding them all day with crap they 'need' and how they should look.

It takes a very very wise person to be satisfied and know when enough is enough materially. Our capitalist system virtually worships and even rewards greed and excess and we are bombarded by images of 'How we should be' and this is quite often totally at odds of how we function or look biologically. (Talking as a pasty faced, spotty, red headed person here). I still have a complex from childhood about being called 'ginger balls' 'moon tan' and all the other assorted shit a red head gets, now we are called wrangers from Orangutan I'm told. Is there any any end to our torment............

A person should be judged on what they are as a person not what they have or how they look. That is why rich people cling so hard to their wealth and self image as that is all they have. Their self image is just a soap bubble. Gandhi said 'This world has enough for everyone's needs, unfortunately it never has enough for some peoples greed.' All I try to be is balanced as all too often we have people who are world rated critics and offer nothing in terms of constructive advice on these forums. A humble person I find is very endearing, a big ego is draining and boorish. A critic just exposes themselves as being unbalanced or being incapable of placing themselves in others shoes.

How would we feel being a teenage Thai girl from Nakhon Sri who is very dark . Magazines, TV and all media bombard and inform you that beauty and self image is about looking as white as a frozen chicken and your perceived worth is measured by what you have in terms of brand name possessions.

That's why I tell Thais Thaksin was a man for his time, who else but a very corrupt man can rise to the top of a very corrupt system???

At this festive time of year please remember what they say in Isarn, 'A dog is not just for Christmas day, there should be a leg or two left over to have with somtum on boxing day'

Edited December 27, 2008 by logbags

[LivinginKata]

logbags .... wow, you really need to calm down before you burst a blood vessel ...