Two Thai Prostitutes Murdered In Paris

[southerndown]

Because it would break forum rules if I did that.

Like everyone I have opinions of people based on their behaviour. This is a forum where discussion of opinions is encouraged. Most people on this board have posted criticism of rich kids driving their dad's Benz into a queue of people at a bus stop, farang drug smugglers, the PAD, Thaksin, Thai police and on and on. Negative views are expressions of a individual person's sense of morality, or what they feel is correct or incorrect behaviour within their society or social group.

In Thailand, where so many single males have chosen to live because of the commercial sex industry, criticism of prostitution is often met with resistance as many people want to justify an act that cannot in any way be described as moral. To give excuses for prostitution is the same as giving excuses for other anti-social behaviours such as stealing to pay for a drug habit, stealing money from someone to buy a new phone etc.

I respect the hard-working uneducated Issan mother cleaning the toilet in TESCOS. For me, she has been dealt a crap hand in this life but despite this leads an honest and hard-working life teaching by example values of integrity and honesty to her children.

Like most people I feel respect is something that needs to be earned. I respect the toilet cleaner in TESCOS but I don'tt respect women who take the lazy and immoral route in life

Very well put and totally agree.

Also noticeable in this thread, but why is it that in every other country of the world they are prostitues, but once back in Thailand they become the more acceptable B/G?

imho because thai society wants to justify what they do and there are very influential people who make money out of it so will not condemn it

i agree whole heartedly with the toilet cleaner parallel. well put.

[DLock]

How long before all the self-righteous brigade appear and start their usual mindless tirade of running down Thai women.

I don't remember tirades against Thai women on this board. I do remember tirades against Thai prostitutes though. For me the vast majority of Thai women aren't prostitutes so I class Thai prostitutes in a different category from Thai women. Thai women are wonderful and make great wives and girlfriends. Maybe for you they are the same but remember most farang men here do not find wives in Pattaya. I find your ignorant comment quite offensive actually.

I fond you comments very offensive,implying that pattaya only has prostitutes or pattaya des not have decent thai ladies.If you are condemning pattaya for the night life,what about bk,phuket,kho samui.korat and khoen khen were this is many uni students doing free lancing.wipe your mouth clean and go back in your sewer.

I think you understood (although I couldn't understand your response too well) very well what I meant. Pattaya is a euphemism for prostitute for most people but I'm sure there are many nice women there as well.

I think your defensive reaction and knowledge of prostitution across Thailand reveals quite a bit about yourself.

I'd expect a bit better from you on this Loaded, that is the biggest cop out statement that anyone could make. C'mon I f you are going to accuse him, you might as well say it.

Because it would break forum rules if I did that.

Like everyone I have opinions of people based on their behaviour. This is a forum where discussion of opinions is encouraged. Most people on this board have posted criticism of rich kids driving their dad's Benz into a queue of people at a bus stop, farang drug smugglers, the PAD, Thaksin, Thai police and on and on. Negative views are expressions of a individual person's sense of morality, or what they feel is correct or incorrect behaviour within their society or social group.

In Thailand, where so many single males have chosen to live because of the commercial sex industry, criticism of prostitution is often met with resistance as many people want to justify an act that cannot in any way be described as moral. To give excuses for prostitution is the same as giving excuses for other anti-social behaviours such as stealing to pay for a drug habit, stealing money from someone to buy a new phone etc.

I respect the hard-working uneducated Issan mother cleaning the toilet in TESCOS. For me, she has been dealt a crap hand in this life but despite this leads an honest and hard-working life teaching by example values of integrity and honesty to her children.

Like most people I feel respect is something that needs to be earned. I respect the toilet cleaner in TESCOS but I don'tt respect women who take the lazy and immoral route in life.

Nice post Loaded. You nailed it.

What is it about Thailand that makes things acceptable that would not be acceptable in their home countries, and worse, people actually willing to stand up and defend it?

People can try and rationalize it all they want about "respecting ALL people", or "not being above anyone". But those comments cannot hide the true motivation behind them.

This whole thread is about choices and making decisions. Some people just make bad decisions based on laziness or greed.

[parallaxtech]

Millions of lovely Thai women support their families not by prostituting themselves but by working in banks, hospitals, shops, construction sites, and sometimes taking second jobs sweeping the floors at restaurants, etc. They have my utmost respect. Prostitutes, on the other hand, have destroyed countless lives, not by taking 1,000B, but by stealing from customers, deceiving them into sending money from overseas, and even having customers killed. Each time I hear someone defending prostitution, it's usually because they were unfortunate enough to marry one. It's true that we are all God's or Buddha's creatures, but respect and admiration is something else. And all criminals use the same excuse (supporting the family). As we used to say in the correction business, "There is no excuse for crime." Try to remember one thing before choosing one of these creatures as a mate: Your partner is a reflection on you and shows what you think about yourself. If I meet a guy with a girlfriend/wife who is obviously an Olympic Pole Swinger, that tells me all I need to know about him. When you see a lovely, well-mannered, moralistic Thai woman, you can pretty much be assured that the mate is at least confident about himself and has enough respect for himself to choose a proper partner.

So, keep supporting prostitutes and other dregs of society. You can also go to http://www.thaiprisonlife.com where they also need your admiration and money.

[Ulysses G.]

In Thailand, where so many single males have chosen to live because of the commercial sex industry, criticism of prostitution is often met with resistance as many people want to justify an act that cannot in any way be described as moral. To give excuses for prostitution is the same as giving excuses for other anti-social behaviours such as stealing to pay for a drug habit, stealing money from someone to buy a new phone etc.

I respect the hard-working uneducated Issan mother cleaning the toilet in TESCOS. For me, she has been dealt a crap hand in this life but despite this leads an honest and hard-working life teaching by example values of integrity and honesty to her children.

Like most people I feel respect is something that needs to be earned. I respect the toilet cleaner in TESCOS but I don'tt respect women who take the lazy and immoral route in life.

Sorry, but I think that you have been brainwashed all of your life into your silly, Puritanical beliefs. Robbers are lazy and immoral. Religious nuts who kill their daughters for having sex outside of marriage are criminals.

The only thing wrong with full-grown men and women charging money for sex is when they are doing it against their will. I have met many wonderful sex workers who are doing a hard job that makes a lot of other people happy and brings in a good salary. They can make a lot of money, but they earn it.

Religious wackos and the plain old prudish just need to learn to keep their noses out of other people's business!

[animatic]

I was told by one lady, who I was not doing business with, just chatting,

that because of puyai illegal logging, her parents house was washed away,

and that's where they took care of her daughter. Whole family suddenly homeless.

She left the factory job to go 'on the game' to get the family another house,

in a reasonably QUICK time frame. She said she managed a 'roof and posts'

in two weeks, and got them out of the neighbors one room hut....

14 people in the one room hut. She had since done walls and a simple outhouse.

She was working for a kitchen set up so they need not cook on a ground fire.

She asked me if I was interested in her for the the evening and I said no,

I had just met my future wife, but I tipped her 200 baht for an interesting conversation

and got a discrete kiss on the cheek for it.

Not all are thinking; I can just work the factory and eventually get by.

Sometimes things get a bit tougher.

Yes, I want more info on what happened in Paris also.

I lived in north Paris for 2.5 years, and another 2.5 outside

the suburbs but driving distance. And I traveled most all quarters of the city.

Except for the dangerous 'suburbs' most places were pretty safe.

I also suspect that verbal discretion of the ladies, may have played a part,

They may have acted like it was Thailand and it's not. Wrong turf, wrong moves.

Conjectural.

Another bit is from Chirac's adopted daughter. I have heard before,

that the young north africans in the suburbs see the asians as a threat ;

for jobs and social services. Vietnamese have a long history with France,

as well as Algerians, and while both see themselves as outsiders,

they also see each other as competitors for the bottom rungs.

Post colonial hangover.

This may have come into play. Turf war or the like.

Edited December 27, 2008 by animatic

[Samuian]

Yet you still have <deleted> on this site saying that it's easy money......

Work a week for 1,000 or one day???

No one says easy money does not have risks.... Drug dealing is easy money till you get caught...

One another note, that is a shame and horrific way to leave this world...

A whole day? "Why massage for an hour and get 200 if I can have 1000 in less then 15 Minutes!" Heard it from the grapewine...

Yes and the fast money along the other illegal fast lanes are riddled with bullets and covered in blood and everyone knows, but for some money is so tempting that they figure they might be better,smarter then the others... ah' well....

still I am sorry for everyone going down this road...

[tijnebijn]

How long before all the self-righteous brigade appear and start their usual mindless tirade of running down Thai women.

I don't remember tirades against Thai women on this board. I do remember tirades against Thai prostitutes though. For me the vast majority of Thai women aren't prostitutes so I class Thai prostitutes in a different category from Thai women. Thai women are wonderful and make great wives and girlfriends. Maybe for you they are the same but remember most farang men here do not find wives in Pattaya. I find your ignorant comment quite offensive actually.

I fond you comments very offensive,implying that pattaya only has prostitutes or pattaya des not have decent thai ladies.If you are condemning pattaya for the night life,what about bk,phuket,kho samui.korat and khoen khen were this is many uni students doing free lancing.wipe your mouth clean and go back in your sewer.

I think you understood (although I couldn't understand your response too well) very well what I meant. Pattaya is a euphemism for prostitute for most people but I'm sure there are many nice women there as well.

I think your defensive reaction and knowledge of prostitution across Thailand reveals quite a bit about yourself.

I'd expect a bit better from you on this Loaded, that is the biggest cop out statement that anyone could make. C'mon I f you are going to accuse him, you might as well say it.

Because it would break forum rules if I did that.

Like everyone I have opinions of people based on their behaviour. This is a forum where discussion of opinions is encouraged. Most people on this board have posted criticism of rich kids driving their dad's Benz into a queue of people at a bus stop, farang drug smugglers, the PAD, Thaksin, Thai police and on and on. Negative views are expressions of a individual person's sense of morality, or what they feel is correct or incorrect behaviour within their society or social group.

In Thailand, where so many single males have chosen to live because of the commercial sex industry, criticism of prostitution is often met with resistance as many people want to justify an act that cannot in any way be described as moral. To give excuses for prostitution is the same as giving excuses for other anti-social behaviours such as stealing to pay for a drug habit, stealing money from someone to buy a new phone etc.

I respect the hard-working uneducated Issan mother cleaning the toilet in TESCOS. For me, she has been dealt a crap hand in this life but despite this leads an honest and hard-working life teaching by example values of integrity and honesty to her children.

Like most people I feel respect is something that needs to be earned. I respect the toilet cleaner in TESCOS but I don'tt respect women who take the lazy and immoral route in life.

Great post .

[mrtoad]

Because it would break forum rules if I did that.

Like everyone I have opinions of people based on their behaviour. This is a forum where discussion of opinions is encouraged. Most people on this board have posted criticism of rich kids driving their dad's Benz into a queue of people at a bus stop, farang drug smugglers, the PAD, Thaksin, Thai police and on and on. Negative views are expressions of a individual person's sense of morality, or what they feel is correct or incorrect behaviour within their society or social group.

In Thailand, where so many single males have chosen to live because of the commercial sex industry, criticism of prostitution is often met with resistance as many people want to justify an act that cannot in any way be described as moral. To give excuses for prostitution is the same as giving excuses for other anti-social behaviours such as stealing to pay for a drug habit, stealing money from someone to buy a new phone etc.

I respect the hard-working uneducated Issan mother cleaning the toilet in TESCOS. For me, she has been dealt a crap hand in this life but despite this leads an honest and hard-working life teaching by example values of integrity and honesty to her children.

Like most people I feel respect is something that needs to be earned. I respect the toilet cleaner in TESCOS but I don'tt respect women who take the lazy and immoral route in life.

Now that's much better put.

[yadetout]

Chirac's daughter slams French racism

Paris - Former French president Jacques Chirac's Vietnamese adopted daughter hit out on Wednesday at violence against France's Asian community, after two of her countrywomen were stabbed to death in Paris.

Anh Dao Traxel, who was taken in by Jacques and Bernadette Chirac when she arrived in France amid the exodus of Vietnamese "boat people" in 1979, demanded a thorough inquiry into what she dubbed "a horrible and barbaric" crime.

"I am very shocked," she said.

"These young women were killed like dogs."

The victims, two women of Asian appearance aged between 20 and 30, were found dead on Tuesday in central Paris' 11th district, in an area with a large immigrant community also known for its fashionable bars and nightclubs.

Traxel raised the possibility that the crime may have had a racist motive and said that if this was the case her father's successor President Nicolas Sarkozy ought to condemn it as he would an attack on any other minority group.

"The French political class and the media should not be silent. They should react with the same energy as when the victims are Jewish, North African Arabs or Africans," the 51-year-old civil servant said.

French police and prosecutors have opened an inquiry. - Sapa- AFP

It's strange as they found two Thai passport in the appartment... so they can't be vietnamese...

I think she is a bit paranoid to focus on a racism act. I don't think we can kill two human being just because they are asian. At least not in France. I rather think they were murder because they were too much talkative with the Police regarding the crackdown on asian prostitution in Paris.

I think the daughter of the former President won't have made such noise if girls were from Eastern Europe... Their are a lot more girls (and problems) with those people...

And talking for Paris and its suburb... racism against africans bla bla... but no words for racism and violence comitted agaisnt "white french" from the same poor "victims"

Edited December 27, 2008 by yadetout

[Sisaketmike]

One thing that a isn't very welcomed is a 'talkative' prostitute. Discretion is a plus in that trade.

The French version of 'Jack the Ripper' ? Hope they find those people who did it.

[Sisaketmike]

One thing that a isn't very welcomed is a 'talkative' prostitute. Discretion is a plus in that trade.

The French version of 'Jack the Ripper' ? Hope they find those people who did it.

Sorry Scott, or whoever you are......how do you know that they're 'talkative'? Did they say something about you too?

[Maigo6]

Two Thai women are murdered in a European country and many can only be judgemental and bitch and whine about how Thai women are so bad !

If this was 2 English girls that had been murdered in Pattaya, this thread would already be 35 pages long and many would have attacked Thai people with great gusto.

2 Thai women are murdered and they still get attacked by this forum........

It's fookin' pathetic!

[Chaimai]

2 Thai women are murdered and they still get attacked by this forum........

It's fookin' pathetic!

I have NEVER agreed with Maigo6's comments before but in this case it is indeed pathetic that some people can turn this topic into a Thai girl bashing fest.

These two girls were horrifically murdered. It does not matter that they were Thai. The fact that they were Thai is no reason for prudish swipes at the world's oldest profession.

[bangkokrick]

Two Thai women are murdered in a European country and many can only be judgemental and bitch and whine about how Thai women are so bad !

If this was 2 English girls that had been murdered in Pattaya, this thread would already be 35 pages long and many would have attacked Thai people with great gusto.

2 Thai women are murdered and they still get attacked by this forum........

It's fookin' pathetic!

I totally agree Maigo and what makes it even more pathetic is that a vast number of forum members have Thai partners.

Cheers, Rick

[Ulysses G.]

Yes, but they are all white skinned models/rocket scientists, not common prostitutes!

[Merangue]

Two Thai women are murdered in a European country and many can only be judgemental and bitch and whine about how Thai women are so bad !

If this was 2 English girls that had been murdered in Pattaya, this thread would already be 35 pages long and many would have attacked Thai people with great gusto.

2 Thai women are murdered and they still get attacked by this forum........

It's fookin' pathetic!

Best post on the entire thread.

[bangkokrick]

Yes, but they are all white skinned models/rocket scientists, not common prostitutes!

In your dreams mate! By the way who are you angry with?

Cheers, Rick

[Merangue]

The usual suspects with the usual comments...and those comments speak volumes about you.

Respect. Many of you need to look up the definition of the word. It's about holding someone in high regard or esteem. And to respect someone means they must also show respect. Respect isn't given by default - it must be earned.

Please tell me you don't honestly believe that these people respect you? Please.

I'll save my respect for those who deserve it. I stand by my comments.

You enjoy doing you bit to save the world. Carry on.

It can also be meant as

a deference to a right, privilege, privileged position, or someone or something considered to have certain rights or privileges; proper acceptance or courtesy; acknowledgment: respect for a suspect's right to counsel; to show respect for the flag; respect for the elderly.

In this way i respect ALL human beings and do not consider myself ABOVE anyone or in a position to judge them without walking in their shoes.

I might add that if i was female and had a child constantly crying because it was hungry, i would probably sell my body for the money to feed them. Would that willingness to sacrifice my self worth make me less deserving of respect or more?

The only people i have no respect for are those who believe themselves above others for whatever reason. Those people generally have had advantages such as money or connections throughout their lives and often contribute less in comparison than the poorest of the poor who is willing to feed a total stranger who lives in the same village.

Are you respected? If so why? what respect have you actually earned and was it relatively easy to earn it?

If you had a baby that was crying because it was hungry...look to your Thai family for support. There is never a valid reason to have to resort to that profession. Plenty of respectful Thai women have babies and work in factories 12 hours a day while the baby is taken care of by the Parents or Grandparents.

You seem to suggest that there is only one option. Do you seriously believe that? Or is it the easy option?

They always have options....its that decision that defines them and how they will be viewed.

Whether I am respected is irrelevant...but I know for sure that the same people we are discussing do not respect me...or you. It's all about that famous line from Jerry McGuire.

I was told by one lady, who I was not doing business with, just chatting,

that because of puyai illegal logging, her parents house was washed away,

and that's where they took care of her daughter. Whole family suddenly homeless.

She left the factory job to go 'on the game' to get the family another house,

in a reasonably QUICK time frame. She said she managed a 'roof and posts'

in two weeks, and got them out of the neighbors one room hut....

14 people in the one room hut. She had since done walls and a simple outhouse.

She was working for a kitchen set up so they need not cook on a ground fire.

She asked me if I was interested in her for the the evening and I said no,

I had just met my future wife, but I tipped her 200 baht for an interesting conversation

and got a discrete kiss on the cheek for it.

Not all are thinking; I can just work the factory and eventually get by.

Sometimes things get a bit tougher.

Yes, I want more info on what happened in Paris also.

I lived in north Paris for 2.5 years, and another 2.5 outside

the suburbs but driving distance. And I traveled most all quarters of the city.

Except for the dangerous 'suburbs' most places were pretty safe.

I also suspect that verbal discretion of the ladies, may have played a part,

They may have acted like it was Thailand and it's not. Wrong turf, wrong moves.

Conjectural.

Another bit is from Chirac's adopted daughter. I have heard before,

that the young north africans in the suburbs see the asians as a threat ;

for jobs and social services. Vietnamese have a long history with France,

as well as Algerians, and while both see themselves as outsiders,

they also see each other as competitors for the bottom rungs.

Post colonial hangover.

This may have come into play. Turf war or the like.

I think the first half of Animatics post pretty much says it all.

Dlock if you want to disrespect a person because of their station in life i honestly believe you have to walk in their shoes for a while, otherwise you have only stereotypes and suppositions upon which to base your thoughts.

That sir is the true cop out and taking the easy way.

Incidentally i know a couple of women who have sold their bodies for sex because they genuinely believed it was the only way for them to support their families. Who are we to judge their choices without having the same concerns and pressures on us.

I am a western male with all the trappings and perks that come with being raised in a country where true hardship ceased to exist many years ago. My guess is you are probably from a similar background.

As for whether a Thai person would respect you or not. Are you not once again, using a stereotype to make your arguement?

Edited December 27, 2008 by Merangue

[Ulysses G.]

Yes, but they are all white skinned models/rocket scientists, not common prostitutes!

In your dreams mate! By the way who are you angry with?

Cheers, Rick

Phonies.

Edited December 27, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[yadetout]

Translation quickly performed with "Google translate" ^^ sorry for any mistake http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/artic...7SA2vQ7qYqBN6yg

In the aftermath of the murder of two young Asian women stabbed Tuesday night in a building of the eleventh arrondissement of Paris, investigators Wednesday n'excluaient no track to trace the perpetrators of this double homicide which moves the Asian community.

It is shortly before 20H00 a neighboor regaining his apartment in a building of 15 Crussol street, a small artery of the eleventh district behind the Cirque d'hiver, notes significant traces of blood macula soil and walls.

At the end of the corridor was faced with the horror: a young woman, Asian, lying bloodied on the ground: it bears a superficial wound to the neck and a very deep one arm. The victim is at the door of his apartment.

The witness gives immediate warning and within minutes, police, firefighters and Samu teams are on site while the area is cordoned off by the police and the Chief of Staff for the prefect of police, Christian Lambert, arrives on the scene.

In the apartment investigators discover the body of a second young woman, also Asian, which has a gaping wound in the neck and major injuries on the rest of the body. Doctors see the two deaths at 20H10.

In the housing summarily furnished police found two passports in the names of two Thai women, both born in 1980, but no trace of the weapon that was used in the killings.

Until late into the night, the police forensic science collected clues while investigators of the Criminal collect testimonies of the first neighbors.

According to some residents the two young women engaged in prostitution: they were held light when they were killed, "a track as another," says a source close to the case.

In this case, they have been victims of a settling of accounts from the middle of the Asian prostitution or customer? Autopsies performed Wednesday at the Forensic Institute in Paris may help to enlighten the investigators.

Wednesday morning, Anh Dao Traxel, adopted daughter of Jacques and Bernadette Chirac, expressed "very shocked" after the murder of two young women stabbed "like dogs" in Paris, alerting officials of the State in the hypthèse a mobile race.

She wondered about that possibility while multiply, she says, attacks against Asians in the capital and claimed that "any shed light on the conditions and motives of this horrible barbarity".

According to his testimony, there would be an increase in "attacks against women from Chinese and Vietnamese neighborhoods in the 10th, 11th, 12th and 13th arrondissements of Paris, the last six months: theft, insults in the street, attacks in the stores. "

Anh Dao Traxel "calls upon the Minister of Interior and the President of the Republic", asking to speak with equal force, "if the investigation reveals a crime to racial" They do "for the Jewish community in France and all other communities as is legitimate for heinous acts, and strongly condemn the perpetrators of crimes".

[Loaded]

For the few who haven't read the comments properly I will state again:

Nobody is 'bashing' Thai women.

However, many members of this board (myself included) feel that Thai prostitutes do not represent Thai women. There are some members who feel Thai prostitutes are normal members of society and do represent the average Thai woman and that IMO is really sad. Prostitution whether it's here or in Tonbridge Wells is immoral. Is that 'bashing' Thai women? I think only a fool, or someone married to a prostitute, would think so.

Those who so strongly support the commercial sex industry in Thailand would never for an instance support brothels and street walkers in Tonbridge Wells - heaven forbid, and there would even be letters to the editor of the Times. Bloody hypocrites.

Edited December 28, 2008 by Loaded

[Loaded]

In Thailand, where so many single males have chosen to live because of the commercial sex industry, criticism of prostitution is often met with resistance as many people want to justify an act that cannot in any way be described as moral. To give excuses for prostitution is the same as giving excuses for other anti-social behaviours such as stealing to pay for a drug habit, stealing money from someone to buy a new phone etc.

I respect the hard-working uneducated Issan mother cleaning the toilet in TESCOS. For me, she has been dealt a crap hand in this life but despite this leads an honest and hard-working life teaching by example values of integrity and honesty to her children.

Like most people I feel respect is something that needs to be earned. I respect the toilet cleaner in TESCOS but I don'tt respect women who take the lazy and immoral route in life.

Sorry, but I think that you have been brainwashed all of your life into your silly, Puritanical beliefs. Robbers are lazy and immoral. Religious nuts who kill their daughters for having sex outside of marriage are criminals.

The only thing wrong with full-grown men and women charging money for sex is when they are doing it against their will. I have met many wonderful sex workers who are doing a hard job that makes a lot of other people happy and brings in a good salary. They can make a lot of money, but they earn it.

Religious wackos and the plain old prudish just need to learn to keep their noses out of other people's business!

What an amazing post. So much attributed to me that I never discussed.

OK, UG you love prostitutes. How many posts are you going to write stating this? Most married farang men in Thailand have married women whose business is not to marry farang. You know, a relationship. Get out a bit more mate.

[Ulysses G.]

However, many members of this board (myself included) feel that Thai prostitutes do not represent Thai women. Some memebers feel Thai prostitutes are normal members of society and do represent the average Thai woman and that is really sad. Prostitution whether it's here or in Tonbridge Wells is immoral. Is that 'bashing' Thai women? I think only a fool, or a daft fool married to a prostitute (same as a fool) would think so.

Those who so strongly support the commercial sex industry in Thailand would never for an instance support brothels and street walkers in Tonbridge Wells - heaven forbid, and there would even be letters to the editor of the Times. Bloody hypocrites.

Sex for monetary favors has been a big part of the culture here for centuries and most Thai men who can afford it have more than one wife - whom they call "little wives" and who recieve money for their pleasures. It is considered normal and in no way "immoral" in the Western sense. Many Thai women are involved with men who are not their official husbands, but support them with cash. Of course, these women are normal members of society.

The hypocrites are the self-righteous, bumbling imbeciles that insist on coming over to Asia trying to change everything so that it is like back home. Thank God, this ain't the Church of England!

Edited December 28, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[Loaded]

However, many members of this board (myself included) feel that Thai prostitutes do not represent Thai women. Some memebers feel Thai prostitutes are normal members of society and do represent the average Thai woman and that is really sad. Prostitution whether it's here or in Tonbridge Wells is immoral. Is that 'bashing' Thai women? I think only a fool, or a daft fool married to a prostitute (same as a fool) would think so.

Those who so strongly support the commercial sex industry in Thailand would never for an instance support brothels and street walkers in Tonbridge Wells - heaven forbid, and there would even be letters to the editor of the Times. Bloody hypocrites.

Sex for monetary favors has been a big part of the culture here for centuries and most Thai men who can afford it have more than one wife - whom they call "little wives" and who recieve money for their pleasures. It is considered normal and in no way "immoral" in the Western sense. Many Thai women are involved with men who are not their official husbands, but support them with cash. Of course, these women are normal members of society.

The hypocrites are the self-righteous, bumbling imbeciles that insist on coming over to Asia trying to change everything so that it is like back home. Thank God, this ain't the Church of England!

I agree with you that there are many different types of prostitute in Thailand.

Mia noi, mia luang are probably terms most members are familiar with. One of these relationships that farang men should know about before becoming involved in a relationship with a Thai prostitute is Mia Chaow. A Mia Chaow is translated as 'rented wife'. When a farang buys a girl out of a bar, so that he has companionship during his 2 week holiday in Pattaya, he doesn't understand, but all Thais do, that his 'girlfriend' is a Mia Chaow. Mia Chaow relationships can often endure for many years and may involve a marriage ceremony but all the time the woman knows exactly the terms and conditions of this 'love' affair: no finance, no romance. She may move to the UK but her husband back in Thailand still expects the dead-buffalo payments to be transferred regularly. Often the farang man is very happy and the woman performs her duties professionally. A match made in Pattaya - rowMANtik

Edited December 28, 2008 by Loaded

[animatic]

Chirac's daughter slams French racism

Paris - Former French president Jacques Chirac's Vietnamese adopted daughter hit out on Wednesday at violence against France's Asian community, after two of her countrywomen were stabbed to death in Paris.....

Traxel raised the possibility that the crime may have had a racist motive and said that if this was the case her father's successor President Nicolas Sarkozy ought to condemn it as he would an attack on any other minority group.

"The French political class and the media should not be silent. They should react with the same energy as when the victims are Jewish, North African Arabs or Africans," the 51-year-old civil servant said......- Sapa- AFP

It's strange as they found two Thai passport in the appartment... so they can't be vietnamese...

I think she is a bit paranoid to focus on a racism act.

And talking for Paris and its suburb... racism against africans bla bla... but no words for racism and violence comitted agaisnt "white french" from the same poor "victims"

I think country women was a mistranslation.

Traxel is one of the highest profile SE Asians there

and she is using her bully pulpit for the good of her community.

I would have thought the racism and reverse racism of the banlieues vis a vis

the main caucasion population, was so well known as to not merit mentioning,

and thus distract from this subset of less well know racisim issues.

I also purposely ignored the islamic element of the banlieues.

[animatic]

One flavor of Feminisms take on this:

From The Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/200...riage-sex-trade

'Marriage is a form of prostitution'

The feminist author Sheila Jeffreys has never shied away from controversy.

Now, with The Industrial Vagina, she takes on the global sex trade.

byline Julie Bindel

.... the common theme of her work is her firm belief that men maintain power over women

by the act of sexual intercourse, and that heterosexuality is therefore bad for women.

This belief is reflected in The Industrial Vagina in her description of marriage as a type of prostitution;

a legal transaction that has traditionally guaranteed sexual access to women's bodies in return for subsistence.

"Prostitution and marriage have always been related," says Jeffreys.

"What is shocking is that today marriage is becoming more fashionable amongst some young women".

She writes that even in the case of employed, well-paid professional women

"the right of men to women's bodies for sexual use has not gone but remains an assumption at the basis of heterosexual relationships".

She uncovers other, more glaring links between marriage and prostitution - such as the growing issue of mail-order brides.

The mail-order bride industry is essentially a form of trafficking, she maintains, with many of the women who are advertised

on marriage agency websites later being sold into prostitution by their husbands. The majority of men who access these services

are white and from wealthy countries, and their brides come from cultures where the female stereotype is subservient and docile.

The strength of Jeffreys' new work lies in just how many aspects of the sex industry she covers, and her understanding of their intersections.

For instance, she points out the links between mail-order bride sites and pornography; between lap-dancing clubs and trafficking operations.

She believes that the use of prostituted women by the military, which has long taken place around US bases in Thailand, South Korea and

the Philippines, has been the most important factor in the globalisation of the sex industry.

In countries "where the industry thrived under military occupations," says Jeffreys, "and the Netherlands where brothel prostitution is legalised,

men flock from elsewhere to gain access to prostitution services." Jeffreys asserts that countries that have legalised prostitution are "pimp states".

"If the state facilitates the prostitution of women, it is obviously maintaining male supremacy.

These states are directly colluding in maintaining women's inequality."

If she is put off by Australias take on it,

she would be practically speechless in Thailand..

I do put her more in the Radical Feminist camp, vs the Liberal or Marxist etc.

I think my point is, that coming from the West we all don't even see it in the same light.

Some liberal feminists see independent sex workers as subcontractors and the buyer a client.

Thus removing the domination of the business transaction by outside parties.

Some see themselves providing a show image and fantasy similar to acting

but with physical contact not just visual dissembling.

Of course the culture is male supremest here. But it is ALSO

65 million shades of individual kow towing and level seeking for EVERYONE here.

Where the women fit in is age old and only slightly changed in the last 100 years.

If much of the literature is to be believed.

Mia nois are still common and this is an even closer analog to the Jefferies article.

A little wife; strongly for the profit motive or security motive, but a discrete long term transaction.

Not being pro or con about the ethics, just makeing observations about

the sliding perspective ethics often takes from on to another observer.

Edited December 28, 2008 by animatic

[NanLaew]

Two Thai women are murdered in a European country and many can only be judgemental and bitch and whine about how Thai women are so bad !

If this was 2 English girls that had been murdered in Pattaya, this thread would already be 35 pages long and many would have attacked Thai people with great gusto.

2 Thai women are murdered and they still get attacked by this forum........

It's fookin' pathetic!

I totally agree Maigo and what makes it even more pathetic is that a vast number of forum members have Thai partners.

Cheers, Rick

Yes Rick, but remember "their girls are different".

[NanLaew]

If I meet a guy with a girlfriend/wife who is obviously an Olympic Pole Swinger, that tells me all I need to know about him. When you see a lovely, well-mannered, moralistic Thai woman, you can pretty much be assured that the mate is at least confident about himself and has enough respect for himself to choose a proper partner.

But what if your chrome-pole-molester detector's batteries are flat and someone's wife who you have previously embraced as a wholesome, virtuous marital partner turns out to have once been the short-time queen of NEP? Oh dear. Any shallower and you'll run aground!

The OP is about alleged Thai sex workers being murdered in Paris.

RIP, regardless of how they may have chosen to live their lives and how far out of whack their moral compass may appear to the holier than thou brigade. They were human beings and lifestyle choices don't change that one iota. All too sad.

[Jimjim]

So no story in English about this other than all the sniping going on here?

[bangkokrick]

Two Thai women are murdered in a European country and many can only be judgemental and bitch and whine about how Thai women are so bad !

If this was 2 English girls that had been murdered in Pattaya, this thread would already be 35 pages long and many would have attacked Thai people with great gusto.

2 Thai women are murdered and they still get attacked by this forum........

It's fookin' pathetic!

I totally agree Maigo and what makes it even more pathetic is that a vast number of forum members have Thai partners.

Cheers, Rick

Yes Rick, but remember "their girls are different".

Yes NanLaew same same but different, as the saying goes.

Cheers, Rick