Where Did The Burmese Go ?

[Khutan]

I have driven all around Kanchanaburi, Suphanburi and Auyattaya, and I have marveled at the stories of the burmese and what they did, only more interesting to see the real thing.

My question really is, where did they march from and what happened on the way ?

There seems to be a "void" in history books, I can find that says where they went from Burma / Peguan etc to get to Auyattaya.

I know there are some excellent parralells in the UK and Europe, and you can walk where Alexander did, and even now have a good idea where Camelot was. Is there the same for this very interesting period of Thai History ?

Thanks

[Khutan]

Sorry as an example it is almost 400km by road from 3 Pagoda Pass (Chedi-

Sam-Ong) to Auyattaya. That is a long long way to walk.... Clearly there was no "facilitated" transport. The road is reasonably straight, so the march must have been aweful. Even today, there is nothing for nearly 200km

From Bong-ti-bon its nearly 250 km, a long way and an aweful climb.

Just interested.

[ProfessorFart]

In the full length Suriyothai there are some (vague) references to the route taken by the Burmese on their various assults on Ayutthya.

There are some also references to the routes taken in 'Thai Rop Phmah' by Prince Damrong Rajanubhab (สมเด็จพระเจ้าบรมวงศ์เธอ กรมพระยาดำรงราชานุภาพ) but the Thai version of the book has some 10,000 pages in its entirety.

He also wrote an English version (Our Wars with the Burmese) which also has some good references in it. It's not cheap though but very readable. It reads more like an adventure book than a historical book which is a common flaw in Thai written history books.

Both DGE Hall and David Wyatt also have slight references to the routes taken.

The biggest problem with this topic is a lack of reliable historical sources for most were destroyed by the Burmese in Ayutthya in 1767 and by the Thais when they finally got shot of the Burmese.

As this is a topic I've researched in some depth, I can tell you that the most commonly agreed route of entry was from 3 Pagodas Pass to Sanghklaburi to Ban Sai Yok to Nam Tok through to U Thong and Suphanburi and into Ayutthya.

Theres little evidence now to suggest a huge conquering army ever came through that way as there is for Alexander the Great.

[kenk3z]

Was it an overwhelming acquisition of territory by massive force in a short period of time, or a creeping advance over a long time?

I guess you probaby wouldn't find many discussions of Burmese "victorious" military strategy and tactics in Thailand.

At the time, were the Burmese mostly Hindu - to cause them to destroy all the Buddha statues they could? Seems more Islamic.....

kenk3z

[Dr. Seuss]

I have been lucky enough to spend quite abit of time in Burma/Myanmar, i can assure you there is nothing Islamic about them.

The razing of Ayuttha was a quick and overwhelming event, nobody has ever given me a decent answr as to why the Burmese beheaded the Buddah images.

This is why Thais see the Burmese as dogs.

You can still see a huge ball of gold and gems on top of the Shwedigon pagoda, in Yangon/Rangoon, that was looted from Ayuttha.

[ProfessorFart]

The razing of Ayuttha was a quick and overwhelming event, nobody has ever given me a decent answr as to why the Burmese beheaded the Buddah images.

Because they were a conquering army. They weren't on a religious mission! Bear in mind also that the cannon was a popular weapon!! The Thai depiction of their history isn't really an accurate one either. They like to portray the Burmese as savages who raped and pillaged much in the same way we see Vikings in the UK, however an invading force is never going to be pictured in a good light by their enemies.

Kenk, It was a gradual advance which ebbed and flowed through what is today Western Thailand. Many of the minor principalities in what is today Thailand were loyal to Burma and so gave access to the Burmese invading forces.

[ProfessorFart]

You may also wish to check out this vast tome as well.

The Royal Chronicles of Ayutthya- A Synoptic Translation by Richard D. Cushman - Introduced and Edited by David K. Wyatt.

Richard Cushman was a genius who translated all available sources of Ayutthya's history in the 60s and 70s from Chinese, Portuguese, and Thai and created a sort of database of the many different accounts so that a 'definitive' history could be extracted. He died before he finished but David Wyatt has tidied it all up into this volume.

Its expensive to buy but they have a copy in the Siam Society Librabry and a day or two poreing over this will give you a good idea of the areas the Burmese were in.

[Khutan]

You may also wish to check out this vast tome as well.

The Royal Chronicles of Ayutthya- A Synoptic Translation by Richard D. Cushman - Introduced and Edited by David K. Wyatt.

Richard Cushman was a genius who translated all available sources of Ayutthya's history in the 60s and 70s from Chinese, Portuguese, and Thai and created a sort of database of the many different accounts so that a 'definitive' history could be extracted. He died before he finished but David Wyatt has tidied it all up into this volume.

Its expensive to buy but they have a copy in the Siam Society Librabry and a day or two poreing over this will give you a good idea of the areas the Burmese were in.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for your replies; I appreciate that.

I was able to purchase 2 books from Asia Books, One very long winded, but was written by a Christain Preist at the time of the fall of Auytthya. It really only gave a perspective from what happened in Auytthya and the move "down the river". The other one wasn't much.

Strange though some of the monuments are interesting. If you go to Don Chedi, it tells you that King Naraesuan The Great chased out the Burmese in the 1500's, it is difficult to piece it all together.

[kuanteen]

...the bit about King Naraesuan: there has been 2 sackings of Ayutthaya. One where King Naraesuan drove out the Burmese, and the other where King Taksin drove out the Burmese and moved to Thonburi. The last war with the Burmese, the Nine Armies War (??????????????), was fought by King Rama I, afterwards, the British conquered the Burmese....

[ProfessorFart]

I think that may have been Claude de Forbin's book which is valuable as a resource for gaining a picture of everyday life in Ayutthya but not too much on the real history.

It is a very tough job looking at Ayutthya's history. David Wyatt's Thailand: A short history has a reasonably followable timeline of the Kings of Ayutthya but then when you have to face all of the usurpers and claimaints to the throne it all gets a bit sticky. Just to make matters worse the titles of the main players seem to chance as they change rank as well!!

Kuanteen,

Ayutthya wasn't sacked during the time of Naresuan, it was just occupied at first which is the world of difference. The Burmese attacked Ayutthya later but retreated defeated after Naresuan killed Prince Minchit Sra at Nong Sarai in Suphanburi.