A Request For Sentence Translation

[toshbh]

from english to thai. the sentece is:

we live in exile

i need it in thai charcters. if you could please post a translation here or send it to my mail:

[email protected]

thanks

[tgeezer]

from english to thai. the sentece is:

we live in exile

i need it in thai charcters. if you could please post a translation here or send it to my mail:

[email protected]

thanks

I think you need to say what it means or you wont get an answer. eg.

I am here for five months in the winter so I tell Thais that I have migrated, but I have to have some preamble or it doesn't work. I have to say, I escape the cold; like a bird; etc. and it is always in answer to a question.

How would you amplify what you want to say?

[toshbh]

Well, I thought it was pretty clear...

I need a translation from english to thai (in thai characters) to the sentence: 'we live in exile'.

What it means...? I am doing an international project that involves a T-shirt with that sentence printed in 50 languages on it. I have all the languages i need except Thai and Amharic... Thought you might be able to help with the Thai... That's it.

Thanks

from english to thai. the sentece is:

we live in exile

i need it in thai charcters. if you could please post a translation here or send it to my mail:

[email protected]

thanks

I think you need to say what it means or you wont get an answer. eg.

I am here for five months in the winter so I tell Thais that I have migrated, but I have to have some preamble or it doesn't work. I have to say, I escape the cold; like a bird; etc. and it is always in answer to a question.

How would you amplify what you want to say?

[Johpa]

Well, I thought it was pretty clear...

I need a translation from english to thai (in thai characters) to the sentence: 'we live in exile'.

What it means...? I am doing an international project that involves a T-shirt with that sentence printed in 50 languages on it. I have all the languages i need except Thai and Amharic... Thought you might be able to help with the Thai... That's it.

I would expect that without providing any clues to context or intent that you will create a t-shirt with a very wide variety of meanings indeed, and a graphic that will generate great mirth amongst the multi-linguals who encounter it. Your intended phrase can be parsed in many ways in English, ranging from political exile to religious exile to some sort of self-imagined existentialist exile. Languages may have different terms depending upon the context and intent. For example, English often uses the term "excommunicated" for religious exile. So what you thought was wrong, it is not "pretty clear".

[toshbh]

OK... So I was wrong... The other 48 languages didn't seem to think so - I got the translation of the sentence quite easily in all the other languages. I have the sentence: 'we live in exile'. As you said, you don't know if its religious exile or political exile or self-imagined, what difference does it make? I understand it does for you - but not for me nor to my idea. If it matters in the Thai language, then i guess any translation will do, the best one being the most general one - we live in exile.

Thanks

Well, I thought it was pretty clear...

I need a translation from english to thai (in thai characters) to the sentence: 'we live in exile'.

What it means...? I am doing an international project that involves a T-shirt with that sentence printed in 50 languages on it. I have all the languages i need except Thai and Amharic... Thought you might be able to help with the Thai... That's it.

I would expect that without providing any clues to context or intent that you will create a t-shirt with a very wide variety of meanings indeed, and a graphic that will generate great mirth amongst the multi-linguals who encounter it. Your intended phrase can be parsed in many ways in English, ranging from political exile to religious exile to some sort of self-imagined existentialist exile. Languages may have different terms depending upon the context and intent. For example, English often uses the term "excommunicated" for religious exile. So what you thought was wrong, it is not "pretty clear".

[tgeezer]

I am only learning, and don't know the answer because I have never come across the word. This says 'we are exiled' เราถูกการเนรเทศ I put it out to keep the topic current and as a piece of bait so that someone more qualified will give you the correct answer.

Edited January 5, 2009 by tgeezer

[yoot]

If it matters in the Thai language, then i guess any translation will do, the best one being the most general one - we live in exile.

If you insist, I can give you one.

We live in exileใ - เราอยู่อย่างถูกเนรเทศ

[tgeezer]

I realize that the last entry was probably the best but I bought a nice English Thai dictionary today by 'Oxford' so the mirror image as it were of my English dictionary. I want to try out this เราอยู่ต่างแดน

[tgeezer]

Amharic...

I have just looked at the post again. Amharic! maybe he means exile. In which case it is back to Yoot's.

[toshbh]

Thank you all very much! A special thanks to tgeezer for your help.

i think i am going to use this one:

เราอยู่อย่างถูกเนรเทศ

by yoot

If there's any comments i would love to read them.

BTW: I don't know if your browser supports the Amharic font, but in Amharic it is:

እኛ የምንኖረው በስደት ነው።

thanks again!

[mangkorn]

I might've gone with ผู้ลี้ภัย

[Luukhin]

I might've gone with ผู้ลี้ภัย

I think ลี้ภัย is best. It sounds more natural. I would translate we live in exile as เราลี้ภัยอยู่ต่างประเทศ

[Luukhin]

or you can say อยู่อย่างลี้ภัย

[DavidHouston]

Please correct me if my perception is incorrect but I believe that these are different concepts:

"คนถูกเนรเทศ" appears to mean "a person who is involuntarily exiled for his country", that is, expelled or not allowed to return home.

"ผู้ลี้ภัย", on the other hand, appears to mean "refugee" or "escapee", that is, someone who is voluntarily seeking safety in another jurisdiction.

The first is against one's will; the second is to flee from oppression. I see that Lexitron provides the following definitions for the second of these two:

ผู้ลี้ภัย [N] refugee; immigrant; escapee; displaced person; exile

Def. ผู้หลบหนีภัยไปอยู่ต่างประเทศ.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

[bannork]

You're quite right David, if I was to wear a Tshirt with this message, the refugee, ( could add political refugee, sorry no Thai font on this keyboard) translation would make me feel more comfortable as it would send the message I had voluntarily left the UK, not been thrown out as the exile message would imply; though we have tax exiles and they're certainly voluntary.

[mynextgig]

If it matters in the Thai language, then i guess any translation will do, the best one being the most general one - we live in exile.

If you insist, I can give you one.

We live in exileใ - เราอยู่อย่างถูกเนรเทศ

Yoot

Why do you use ถูก before เนรเทศ ? Is this a modifier here ?

[tgeezer]

Please correct me if my perception is incorrect but I believe that these are different concepts:

"คนถูกเนรเทศ" appears to mean "a person who is involuntarily exiled for his country", that is, expelled or not allowed to return home.

"ผู้ลี้ภัย", on the other hand, appears to mean "refugee" or "escapee", that is, someone who is voluntarily seeking safety in another jurisdiction.

The first is against one's will; the second is to flee from oppression. I see that Lexitron provides the following definitions for the second of these two:

ผู้ลี้ภัย [N] refugee; immigrant; escapee; displaced person; exile

Def. ผู้หลบหนีภัยไปอยู่ต่างประเทศ.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

The expression that was given by Yoot is ok surely, I don't think he consults Lexitron. In my latest dictionary ผู้ลี้ภัยแผ่นดินไหว is given as an example of ผู้ลี้ภัย and you can read it any way you want: pronoun-verb-object, noun-modifier or nounclause. Surely that 'Def'. above is an example of usage. If not who decides what is correct and with what will Lexitron replace the original verb which is now hijacked. A refugee is one who takes refuge he doesn't have to leave the country.

I need help here 'throw me a bone' someone or I have wasted a lot of money on decent dictionaries.

[tgeezer]

Thank you all very much! A special thanks to tgeezer for your help.

i think i am going to use this one:

เราอยู่อย่างถูกเนรเทศ

by yoot

If there's any comments i would love to read them.

BTW: I don't know if your browser supports the Amharic font, but in Amharic it is:

እኛ የምንኖረው በስደት ነው።

thanks again!

Thanks. As you can guess Yoot is Thai. ถูก is the auxiliary verb to exile making it passive voice. So it is 'we live in a manner of being exiled'.

[tgeezer]

ผู้ลี้ภัยแผ่นดินไหว is given as an example of ผู้ลี้ภัย and you can read it any way you want: pronoun-verb-object, noun-modifier

I was wrong here got carried away the only way that it can be read is as a compound pronoun if there is such an animal. It is the same as ผู้ดี ผู้กิน etc. the meaning is as it says. When the phrase gets as long as my example it takes on the flavour of a sentence the problem is that ผู้ can't be the subject of a sentence on its own can it? If I have it correctly the sentence would be บุคคลผู้ลี้ภัยแผ่นดินไหวอาศัยอยู่ต่างประเทศ On the plus side I have no trouble typing อู now.

[mangkorn]

Please correct me if my perception is incorrect but I believe that these are different concepts:

"คนถูกเนรเทศ" appears to mean "a person who is involuntarily exiled for his country", that is, expelled or not allowed to return home.

"ผู้ลี้ภัย", on the other hand, appears to mean "refugee" or "escapee", that is, someone who is voluntarily seeking safety in another jurisdiction.

The first is against one's will; the second is to flee from oppression. I see that Lexitron provides the following definitions for the second of these two:

ผู้ลี้ภัย [N] refugee; immigrant; escapee; displaced person; exile

Def. ผู้หลบหนีภัยไปอยู่ต่างประเทศ.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

I agree, David. That's why I suggested the latter, because it seems the OP was seeking a general term to cover many people in many situations who for one of many possible reasons live in exile - but were not cast out of the land by some edict.

In fact, in this day and age, I doubt there are very many people who are exiled by decree, other than perhaps some army generals who are sent off by other army generals to get them out of the way. Most governments prefer to put their most-feared political enemies in prison, or to emasculate them in some way (or, just kill them), rather than to banish them from the country.

[DavidHouston]

Please correct me if my perception is incorrect but I believe that these are different concepts:

"คนถูกเนรเทศ" appears to mean "a person who is involuntarily exiled for his country", that is, expelled or not allowed to return home.

"ผู้ลี้ภัย", on the other hand, appears to mean "refugee" or "escapee", that is, someone who is voluntarily seeking safety in another jurisdiction.

The first is against one's will; the second is to flee from oppression. I see that Lexitron provides the following definitions for the second of these two:

ผู้ลี้ภัย [N] refugee; immigrant; escapee; displaced person; exile

Def. ผู้หลบหนีภัยไปอยู่ต่างประเทศ.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

I agree, David. That's why I suggested the latter, because it seems the OP was seeking a general term to cover many people in many situations who for one of many possible reasons live in exile - but were not cast out of the land by some edict.

In fact, in this day and age, I doubt there are very many people who are exiled by decree, other than perhaps some army generals who are sent off by other army generals to get them out of the way. Most governments prefer to put their most-feared political enemies in prison, or to emasculate them in some way (or, just kill them), rather than to banish them from the country.

The expediency of "บวชพระ" as a sort of internal exile is a very humane alternative, no?

[mangkorn]

The expediency of "บวชพระ" as a sort of internal exile is a very humane alternative, no?

Well, it would be, were it true. Seems to me that it's often a voluntary, cynical act to avoid paying for one's crimes.

[mangkorn]

Might add that the old idea of exile by decree has been pretty much discarded because history has proven, time and again, that exiles are very dangerous, and often dedicate themselves to revenge (e.g., the infamous "self-exiled" contemporary Thai fugitive).

No doubt that ol' General Batista rued the day that he exiled Fidel, rather than keeping him in a prison cell for life, or killing him...

Edited January 10, 2009 by mangkorn

[tgeezer]

May be that is the reason that Yoot wrote อยู่ย่างถูกเนรเทศ as opposed to เราเป็นผู้ถูกเนรเทศ is because these 'exiles are not,in fact, they are working on a 'project' so I am assuming that the poster means 'we live like exiles' The poster chose the predicate, maybe because they may come into contact with refugees, in which case the legend 'we live like refugees' might appear insensitive. As you say the cases of the forced exile are uncommon nowadays which, coupled with the translation minimises the chance of misunderstanding.

[yoot]

Well, let me clarify myself a bit.

The first time when the OP asked for the translation, tgeezer and Jopha tried to ask the exact meaning of the sentence the OP asked for the translation. But the OP insisted that any translation will do, the best one being the most general one. That's why I gave that translation. It doesn't mean that is the only translation of this sentence. It can also be translated to "เราอยู่อย่างลี้ภัย" or "เราอยู่อย่างพลัดถิ่น". But I thought "เนรเทศ" has more various meaning than others.

If you take the meaning of "เนรเทศ" literally and seriously as it shown in dictionaries, the meaning of it might sound negative to you. But if you simply translate it to "banished from one's home, banished from some place against one's will, forced to live in a foreign country or forced to live in other place.", you will see how it can be used broader.

These are some examples of using this word in various situations :

ถ้าเธอยังไม่ตั้งใจทำงานในออฟฟิศ เดี๋ยวฉันจะเนรเทศให้ไปทำในโรงงานเลยดีไหม

ไอ้หมาตัวนี้อยู่ในบ้านแล้วชอบทำเลอะเทอะ เนรเทศมันไปนอนนอกบ้านเป็นดีที่สุด

ตอนผมอยู่เมืองไทยผมเกเรมาก แม่เลยเนรเทศผมให้ไปเรียนที่อังกฤษซะเลย

ชาวอินเดียนแดงในอเมริกาต้องมีชีวิตเหมือนถูกเนรเทศในดินแดนของตัวเอง

เมื่อก่อนก็ได้นอนห้องเดียวกับพ่อแม่ แต่ตอนนี้โดนเนรเทศให้ไปนอนห้องตัวเองแล้ว

From above, you can see that it can be used in joking way too. There are words which can be used interchangeably to เนรเทศ in my examples, they are อัปเปหิ or ไล่.

So, อยู่อย่างถูกเนรเทศ doesn't sound that bad as someone might think. You might not want to live in exile but sometimes you need to for your own sake. It's not only about political issue.

[yoot]

May be that is the reason that Yoot wrote อยู่ย่างถูกเนรเทศ as opposed to เราเป็นผู้ถูกเนรเทศ is because these 'exiles are not,in fact, they are working on a 'project' so I am assuming that the poster means 'we live like exiles' The poster chose the predicate, maybe because they may come into contact with refugees, in which case the legend 'we live like refugees' might appear insensitive. As you say the cases of the forced exile are uncommon nowadays which, coupled with the translation minimises the chance of misunderstanding.

[DavidHouston]

If you take the meaning of "เนรเทศ" literally and seriously as it shown in dictionaries, the meaning of it might sound negative to you. But if you simply translate it to "banished from one's home, banished from some place against one's will, forced to live in a foreign country or forced to live in other place.", you will see how it can be used broader.

So, อยู่อย่างถูกเนรเทศ doesn't sound that bad as someone might think. You might not want to live in exile but sometimes you need to for your own sake. It's not only about political issue.

Thank you, Khun Yoot, for that explanation and those examples. Would the following be a fair rendition of your sample sentences:

ถ้าเธอยังไม่ตั้งใจทำงานในออฟฟิศ เดี๋ยวฉันจะเนรเทศให้ไปทำในโรงงานเลยดีไหม

If you do not want work hard in the office, I will send you out to work in the factory; is that what you really want?

ไอ้หมาตัวนี้อยู่ในบ้านแล้วชอบทำเลอะเทอะ เนรเทศมันไปนอนนอกบ้านเป็นดีที่สุด

This dog really messes up our house when he stays inside; it is best if we keep him outdoors permanently.

ตอนผมอยู่เมืองไทยผมเกเรมาก แม่เลยเนรเทศผมให้ไปเรียนที่อังกฤษซะเลย

I was a real trouble-maker when I was living in Thailand; my mother, therefore, exiled me to go to school in England.

เมื่อก่อนก็ได้นอนห้องเดียวกับพ่อแม่ แต่ตอนนี้โดนเนรเทศให้ไปนอนห้องตัวเองแล้ว

I used to sleep in the same room with my parent, but now I have been banished to sleep in my own bedroom.

Thanks.

[mangkorn]

May be that is the reason that Yoot wrote อยู่ย่างถูกเนรเทศ as opposed to เราเป็นผู้ถูกเนรเทศ is because these 'exiles are not,in fact, they are working on a 'project' so I am assuming that the poster means 'we live like exiles' The poster chose the predicate, maybe because they may come into contact with refugees, in which case the legend 'we live like refugees' might appear insensitive. As you say the cases of the forced exile are uncommon nowadays which, coupled with the translation minimises the chance of misunderstanding.

Only the OP knows for sure, but it seemed to me that the T-shirts are not being produced in the main for the well-fed volunteers, but also (or mostly?) for people who are indeed living in exile. Or, maybe it's just a general, philosophical statement...

[tgeezer]

David, you missed the one about the NA Indians being like exiles in their own country.

Which incidentally is not true although some might, where they are living now in most cases is many hundreds of miles from their country.

What does ซะเลย mean?

Thanks Yoot

[tgeezer]

Only the OP knows for sure, but it seemed to me that the T-shirts are not being produced in the main for the well-fed volunteers, but also (or mostly?) for people who are indeed living in exile. Or, maybe it's just a general, philosophical statement...

Yes I am also curious.