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ถูกต้อน จนมุม And จนตรอก


DavidHouston

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Here is sentence from Matichon today:

เมื่อถามว่า พ.ต.ท.ทักษิณระบุว่า ถูกต้อนให้จนมุมและจนตรอก นายอภิสิทธิ์กล่าวว่า ไม่มีอะไรไปต้อนให้พ.ต.ท.ทักษิณจนมุม ทุกอย่างเป็นไปตามกฎหมาย

When asked, "Pol. Col. Thaksin revealed that 'I am cornered, checked, and check mated', Mr. Abhisit said that 'there is nothing to indicate that Pol. Col. Thaksin is cornered. Everything (we are doing) is in accordance with the law."

I want to make sure that I correctly understand the phrases "ถูกต้อนให้จนมุมและจนตรอก". Is the usage here like the English, "check and check mate? Any thoughts?

Thanks.

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Here is sentence from Matichon today:

เมื่อถามว่า พ.ต.ท.ทักษิณระบุว่า ถูกต้อนให้จนมุมและจนตรอก นายอภิสิทธิ์กล่าวว่า ไม่มีอะไรไปต้อนให้พ.ต.ท.ทักษิณจนมุม ทุกอย่างเป็นไปตามกฎหมาย

When asked, "Pol. Col. Thaksin revealed that 'I am cornered, checked, and check mated', Mr. Abhisit said that 'there is nothing to indicate that Pol. Col. Thaksin is cornered. Everything (we are doing) is in accordance with the law."

I want to make sure that I correctly understand the phrases "ถูกต้อนให้จนมุมและจนตรอก". Is the usage here like the English, "check and check mate? Any thoughts?

Thanks.

I would take my lead from the PM and keep it simple. I know what you mean though David; which of the many terms in the dictionary means check-mate? presumably all of them. จนมุม no escape is more serious than จนตรอก no way out, or is it? Take your pick. Whenever I have played chess with people here and that only to get fleeced by deceptively skilled "peasant girls" they have been nice enough to say 'check mate'; I heard it often enough.

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The meaning of จนมุม and จนตรอก are similar but not quite the same.

จนมุม - cornered, checkmated

But for จนตรอก , there is an idiom หมาจนตรอก (Def, from RID : (สำ) น. คนที่ฮึดสู้อย่างสุดชีวิตเพราะไม่มีทางเลือก ในสำนวนว่า สู้เหมือนหมาจนตรอก.). So, when the phrase จนตรอก is used, it has the meaning of 'at bay' - forced to turn and face attackers.

As for checked and check mated, if it's about chess there are words for them, รุก and รุกฆาต. If both words are used in some situation, the meaning will not be the same as ถูกต้อนให้จนมุมและจนตรอก.

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The meaning of จนมุม and จนตรอก are similar but not quite the same.

จนมุม - cornered, checkmated

But for จนตรอก , there is an idiom หมาจนตรอก (Def, from RID : (สำ) น. คนที่ฮึดสู้อย่างสุดชีวิตเพราะไม่มีทางเลือก ในสำนวนว่า สู้เหมือนหมาจนตรอก.). So, when the phrase จนตรอก is used, it has the meaning of 'at bay' - forced to turn and face attackers.

As for checked and check mated, if it's about chess there are words for them, รุก and รุกฆาต. If both words are used in some situation, the meaning will not be the same as ถูกต้อนให้จนมุมและจนตรอก.

สู้เหมือนหมาจนตรอก

In English we might say "He is fighting like a cornered rat." "He is struggling like his life in on the line." "He is fighting for his very existence."

Thank you, Khun Yoot, Jdinasia, and Geezer.

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The meaning of จนมุม and จนตรอก are similar but not quite the same.

จนมุม - cornered, checkmated

But for จนตรอก , there is an idiom หมาจนตรอก (Def, from RID : (สำ) น. คนที่ฮึดสู้อย่างสุดชีวิตเพราะไม่มีทางเลือก ในสำนวนว่า สู้เหมือนหมาจนตรอก.). So, when the phrase จนตรอก is used, it has the meaning of 'at bay' - forced to turn and face attackers.

As for checked and check mated, if it's about chess there are words for them, รุก and รุกฆาต. If both words are used in some situation, the meaning will not be the same as ถูกต้อนให้จนมุมและจนตรอก.

No it is not about chess but of course all the words could be used conversationally to describe situations in chess.

The above is the quote, and you say it will not mean what it appears to mean? 'manoeuvered into a situation where the only recourse is to turn and fight.' or words to that effect?

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