Motorcycle Accident In Nakhonsawon

[davyboy]

<BR>. Im not mocking How do they decide?<BR>

Although it's often interpreted as big pays small, I think it's based on the assumption that big has more money than small i.e on ability to pay. That's why it's usually assumed that farang will pay because he can pay. Fault doesn't seem to come into it.

I think some people are reading the OP and skipping to the end to comment. As per OP's post on page 2, this saga seems to be a lot further on than they think - he's already been home to Oz, flown back and seen the inside of a jail!

Bigger pays small. Farang pays Thai.

A Farang is seen to have better insurance than Thai (if Thai have any!!), so can get better payouts.

[CroBiker]

Quote (not exact) from the judge in my staff members case.

It doesn't matter who was right or wrong, the fact remains that you killed another human being and therfore have to live with that for the rest of your life which will include the punishment handed out by this court.

This "wise judge" shure puts King Solomon to shame. Would he or she felt the same way if his own child caused the death of another person? I doubt it. Can't believe such reasoning still exists in 21st century even in 3rd world country.

[sapi]

good luck for you , eventhough we drive carefully, in the end they screw us..

[mrtoad]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Actor-Kills-...html&st=175

Post 196 clearly states that the famous thai actor paid the victims family 500,000 baht, just to put things in perspective.

How much did the retard the in the Mercedes, who crashed into a bus, pay to compensate his victims?

Nothing as of yet, from reports.

[henryalleman]

Sorry if I have been unclear with the timing.

The accident was approx 4 months ago. After the accident I returned to Australia for approx 1-2 weeks prior to returning to meet with the family and the insurance. After the meeting my passport was held by the police for 2 months until they lodged the paperwork with the court at which time I received my passport back. The court then gave me a date to come back and talk to the prosecutor, I once again returned to Oz for 7-10 days before returning for the initial meeting approx 26th of November (this was the meeting when they were too busy to see myself and my lawyer). This was then rescheduled to approx 16th December. I was put in the cells, eventually granted bail and returned to Oz on the 18th December. My next appointment in court is the 16th of Feb.

Please accept my apologies for any vagueness, this as you can imagine has been a very stress full and taxing time.

C

maybe a stupid question, but why you came back to Thailand, once you are in Australia nobody can touch you, because not any country extradite his own citizens to another country.

[jimmybkk]

I was thinking exactly the same thing henry.

[mickba]

Sorry if I have been unclear with the timing..................next appointment in court is the 16th of Feb.

Please accept my apologies for any vagueness, this as you can imagine has been a very stress full and taxing time.

No need to apologise, it all makes sense now - just that many of the posts were on the assumption that it only just happened. I know how much my little episode has taxed me, but although it could have had a similar outcome, it pales into insignificance compared with what you're going through.

It sounds like a nightmare that only began due to someone else's stupidity followed by the family's greed. It just ain't fair and all farang gaily running about in their Fortuners and trucks etc (fully legal and insured of course) should take heed of how easily the wheels can come off their wagons.

What outcome is your lawyer forecasting and have they told you what the maximum sentence is if convicted?

It sounds as tho' you're currently back in Oz? As others have asked, what is it that obliges you to return, other than losing your bail bond, anything you own in Thailand, the option to ever return, possibly a GF or even wife and perhaps even............OK so perhaps they're right, it is a stupid question.

Edited January 5, 2009 by mickba

[dotcom]

If he hands over the 12.5 million he walks out a free man.

[ALFREDO]

It makes you wonder how many people have died at the scene of the accident because there's no-one else around and the driver doesn't stop and so no medical assistance is provided to the victim. Unfortunately the way the law is almost encourages this.

Ok, things like that happen,

if it has been a remote small road, also night maybe I would have stopped.

But in my case, it was broad daylight on a mayor Thai Highway where are always cars in sight.

also at the time of my accident in a little distance, so impossible to recognice the numberplate numbers.

And, the motorbike driver seemed not to be bad hurt.

But as many posters write, I could have got in a lot of trouble and also in unneccessary time and money consuming trouble.

[Underdog]

Sorry if I have been unclear with the timing.

The accident was approx 4 months ago. After the accident I returned to Australia for approx 1-2 weeks prior to returning to meet with the family and the insurance. After the meeting my passport was held by the police for 2 months until they lodged the paperwork with the court at which time I received my passport back. The court then gave me a date to come back and talk to the prosecutor, I once again returned to Oz for 7-10 days before returning for the initial meeting approx 26th of November (this was the meeting when they were too busy to see myself and my lawyer). This was then rescheduled to approx 16th December. I was put in the cells, eventually granted bail and returned to Oz on the 18th December. My next appointment in court is the 16th of Feb.

Please accept my apologies for any vagueness, this as you can imagine has been a very stress full and taxing time.

C

maybe a stupid question, but why you came back to Thailand, once you are in Australia nobody can touch you, because not any country extradite his own citizens to another country.

Maybe he had a life in Thailand?

[mickba]

If he hands over the 12.5 million he walks out a free man.

14.5 last I read but never mind.

So the charge of reckless driving causing death isn't a criminal matter in its own right, just a means of settling a civil matter unlike farangland?

Sorry, I misunderstood then. I suppose for what it's worth that's better from the OP's viewpoint.

[mickba]

This kind of thing really makes my blood boil!

In a civilised country,

I understand your sentiments, but from your grasp of "the Thai way" in such matters, I hope you don't drive big car, or else that you have a lot more luck than some have had. If you arrived at the police station in that frame of mind you'd see the inside of monkey jail a lot faster than the OP did.

Good luck.

[BSJ]

What a crap situation to be in. Need a good lawyer by the sound of it. Tough break dude.

[Bard]

Guess they copied your passport so it's a no-go out on you from Thailand, and the Thai police will see you as guilty until proven innocent. The case can drag out for about 2 years unless you have a decent lawyer who can push it through the system. If you need to leave the kingdom for income you're in trouble and the only/best advice I can give is to get a proper lawyer to help you out unless you can pull up some important friends who can push for you to get the demand down to a sensible amount.

Best of luck in the process, there is no fairness in the Thai Police, they will hold you as guilty until either the court say your innocent or the family sign that the case is over. So if you need it to end soon you have to make a deal with them, if you can stay without leaving just wait until the case comes up to court. If what happened is correct, you will go out innocent.

Cheers Bard

[brahmburgers]

When I had an accident that was not my fault (no fatalities) the police started to angle for some kind of payout.

I am lucky that my mrs has a friend who is a police major and after a few phone calls, the issue went away. It cost me a good bottle of scotch and dinner for his family.

To the OP: If you have a police friend or someone in your family knows one, then get them to make a few calls. It might make them back off a little.

Good luck

HoJo

I know Thailand won't change - regarding that subjective administration of justice, but it still burns my bisquit that justice can't be administered in a fair manner - by Thai authorities. Instead it's 97% predicated on payoffs and who you know.

Only slightly related: I once backed my pick up in to a two lane city street. It was night, and the road looked deserted. While backing out, I heard a loud clunk - a young man on a motorbike had hit the side of my little truck. He had no helmet and no lights on. Luckily for him, he hit behind the cab, so his head didn't hit anything hard, but his knee got bruised. Luckily for me, a security guard at a bank saw the whole thing and rebuked the boy for driving recklessly. I had a little bag of coins (a few hundred baht) in my cab - which I gave to the kid - then I drove off.

[CroBiker]

d) Get your passport, get out, change you ID and re-enter, it's not that well checked.

This scheme doesn't work anymore. I entered Thailand on 2 different passports (dual citizenship) and they figured me out through date of birth records in computer.

[Bard]

Crobiker is 100% correct, they have total control now with the system they got in place so forget it.

Cheers Bard

[mickba]

can't wait to hear your story if you ever get caught up in one of these sagas

By the way, we're making a big thing about this being a Thai vs farang thing. My GF assures me that the system works exactly the same way in the case of Thai/Thai except that the amount of the claim and the assumption of guilt/ability to pay may be different - ok so that's not exactly the same, but the system is the same - ish.

I guess we have to wait until February to hear more about this one?

[12DrinkMore]

My GF assures me that the system works exactly the same way in the case of Thai/Thai except that the amount of the claim and the assumption of guilt/ability to pay may be different - ok so that's not exactly the same, but the system is the same - ish.

Duh!!!

:D

[aka_jack]

Apart from skipping country, which i would have done along time ago! have you got your embassy involved ? is this a civil or criminal matter? Why not get the press involved? this could work in 2 ways, 1 way would publicse your case showing that you have done nothing wrong and it was not your fault and now you are being extorted which would not look good on thailands image, which we all know they do not like that!!. Or it could have a negative effect and have people queing up at the road waiting for a farang to drive past!. Also would have thought it would have been a good idea to get your lawyer to go through previous cases, thai on thai for the same situation to see what was paid, alot less i bet! Use these files and cases as ethier a defence in your case or a counter offer to the family! Best of luck and will be waiting to see what happens! This could happen to any of us! What about sueing the insurer??

[LivinLOS]

d) Get your passport, get out, change you ID and re-enter, it's not that well checked.

This scheme doesn't work anymore. I entered Thailand on 2 different passports (dual citizenship) and they figured me out through date of birth records in computer.

Crobiker is 100% correct, they have total control now with the system they got in place so forget it.

Cheers Bard

Its not true guys.. I am not going to go into details but have direct personal experience..

Go home, change name, fresh passport.. return.. Works !!

Of course you need to have a separation from your old addresses, associations and whatnot.. Its complex.

[adjan jb]

I am not going to go into details but have direct personal experience..

The devil is in the details?

[eggomaniac]

My GF assures me that the system works exactly the same way in the case of Thai/Thai except that the amount of the claim and the assumption of guilt/ability to pay may be different - ok so that's not exactly the same, but the system is the same - ish.

Duh!!!

WOT's the LAFF?

My wife's Thai brother, had to raise another B60,000 to pay off the family, after the insurance had paid out. The victims' family had him under house arrest. The company he worked for the truck lost a tire and broke legs of oncoming motorbikers. This had nothing to do with farangs; it was Thai on Thai settling of accounts. If there had been fatalities, the 'pay out' would have been way higher. Like Mickba states, there are similar Thai on Thai cases! My wife's take on how to get out of it?

"impossible - have to pay"

If the OP was completely innocent, it is a terrible situation for him, but some of the language in this thread, including the suggestions to murder the family members are worse than a very bad joke. Seems a lot of expats hate life in Thailand, but are stuck there financially??? WOT SAY?

----------------------------------------------------------

As for the OP, is it naive to imagine he might get some 'assistance' Australian Foreign Affairs?[have the case heard in Oz?] Maybe a prisoner swap?

[LivinLOS]

I think the point being 14,500,000 versus 60,000...

Saying 'they system is the same' when one is almost 250 times the other one is hardly 'the same'..

[rana391]

Thanks for the comments. I will keep updating as things progress.

I don't understand why the post has been moved to from general to this forum, the post is more about the court system and the legal implications than about motorbikes.

I have met a few Farangs that have had similar accidents but none involving fatalities or court cases. My main concern is that the family may push for jail time or attempt to have my bail revoked. As far as I can see they have no security even if they win a judgment against me there are no assets to seize. Most other court judgments I have seen on the net the relatives have been paid a nominal amount, they then state to the court they have been compensated and this reflects in the penalty imposed by the court. I don't know how it affects the penalty if the family is not paid off.

C

[astral]

You definitely need a trusted lawyer to argue your case as the insurance company

has abdicated their responsibility.

You might try contacting the MD of the insurance company........

14 million is ridiculous, definitely inflated for the Farang factor

but I do not believe a Thai court will take the same view.

I have been in a similar situation, but fortunately I was not the driver, but it was my car.

Foolishly I told my driver to sit tight and call the police when he telephoned me, the responsible approach.

In retrospect it was a mistake.

To save him being charged with dangerous driving, I ended up forking out money.

If I remember rightly the family wanted 1 million, that was bargained down by the Insurance

company, but still ended up paying part of the final sum.

Otherwise my car would have been rotting at the police station until the case came to court,

months, possibly years later.

As soon as I drove the car away from the police station I was able to see what had happened.

The m'cycle had cut across from the right. Misjudged and hit the front right wheel, most probably with the foot rest,

the dent was there and the way the steering was out of alignment told me the direction of the hit.

Sadly the Thai police and insurance assessors lack the skills to find out what really happened

in the way they would back home.

When the repair shop looked at my car they could not believe anyone had died. It was not the collision

that killed the guy, he came off the bike and was run over by other cars..............

It was on the dual carriage way, just south of Pattaya. No helmet, of course.

Depending on your ties to Thailand, I tend to agree with the other poster who suggested that you re-locate.

I am sure I will get flames for saying that, but one has to be practical, I am sorry to say.

[mickba]

My GF assures me that the system works exactly the same way in the case of Thai/Thai except that the amount of the claim and the assumption of guilt/ability to pay may be different - ok so that's not exactly the same, but the system is the same - ish.

Duh!!!

WOT's the LAFF?

My wife's Thai brother, had to raise another B60,000 to pay off the family, after the insurance had paid out. The victims' family had him under house arrest. The company he worked for the truck lost a tire and broke legs of oncoming motorbikers. This had nothing to do with farangs; it was Thai on Thai settling of accounts. If there had been fatalities, the 'pay out' would have been way higher. Like Mickba states, there are similar Thai on Thai cases! My wife's take on how to get out of it?

"impossible - have to pay"...................

Exactly - thanks for that example.

To 12drinkmore, perhaps you did, or perhaps the meaning of my ramble eluded you. My (GF's) point was simply that this is the Thai system and not one created especially for farang. The amounts claimed will always be governed by ability to pay and farang are generally assumed to be able to pay.

If it was my attempt at dry humour/sarcasm that warranted the emoticons then fine, but there ain't much to laugh about here given the situation the OP is facing. As per his last post, there could be a lot worse to come yet. I hope he's wrong.

P.S. my GF's take on it is as the wife's above.

[dotcom]

It doesn't matter who was right or wrong, the fact remains that you killed another human being and therfore have to live with that for the rest of your life which will include the punishment handed out by this court.

This "wise judge" shure puts King Solomon to shame. Would he or she felt the same way if his own child caused the death of another person? I doubt it. Can't believe such reasoning still exists in 21st century even in 3rd world country.

Yeah the judge is seriously messed up.

You are driving along in your car minding your own business. Some 16 year old slams into the back of your car not wearing a helmet. he dies. The judge declares from his high perch "You killed him" BS governor.

[mickba]

............I don't understand why the post has been moved to from general to this forum, the post is more about the court system and the legal implications than about motorbikes................

I agree. I didn't spot the post that said this had been moved. Which moderator speed read this and shifted it. With respect, it is much too important a topic to be restricted to the m/bike forum.

[mickba]

If he hands over the 12.5 million he walks out a free man.

Apart from being 2 million adrift I get the impression that you know what you're talking about.

So what was this post about (see above somewhere)?

Section 290

Whoever, causes death to the other person by inflicting injury upon the body of such person without intent to cause death, shall be punished with imprisonment of three to fifteen years.

etc.

I thought there was the possibility of a penalty other than the compensation, as there would be in the west.

Yes or not?