Uk State Pensions For Expats

[12DrinkMore]

Your point is well made but frankly, I think my earlier advice still stands, everyone should just try to relax a little bit more. I don't know how many years away you are personally from the official retirement age of 65 but I reach that point in time in x years, two months and eighteen days, not that I'm counting or that it really matters from a pension point of view. I take the view that the State Pension, like many UK banks and other financial institutions are things that are too big to fail, the ramifications for the alternatives in this day and age are too dire to even consider - one has to go to the levels of Mad Max movies to imagine those things.

There are already pension schemes which have failed. Lehman has failed. Madoff, a single Human Being managed to reallocate 50,000,000,000 Dollars, Barings was brought down by Leeson. I am facing a five figure sum loss in GBP due to the Icelandic banking system failing. Ireland would have followed with my savings if it was not part of the Euro and the Irish government issued a 100% guarantee (which they cannot afford).

And then we come to

Governments around the world will adopt quantitative easing or any other means necessary to avoid the civil unrest and massive upheaval that accompany the alternatives. The outcome of adopting those alternatives may not be pleasant for us or our offspring and a part of the long term solution might well involve, as history has taught us to date, a major armed conflict or two! Regardless, normal service will be resumed at some point.

Great! So my National Pension is provided with GBPs worth their weight in a promise from Gordon Brown's halitosis ridden mouth organ, but will not buy me a single beer in Thailand? And this, as part of the long term solution according to you, could well be accompanied by a major war? Well, really, have you thought this through?

Quantitative easing, or creating new money out of nothing, destroys the value of the existing money and will end up with rampant inflation. The UK government is lying about the enemy deflation, which has been going on for a decade, and is lying about the lack of funds available to invest. There is a lot of money sloshing around. The "credit squeeze" is all about the plain fact that there is nothing to invest in at the moment as asset prices are falling and there are no customers for anything produced in the UK.

The current economic picture is dominated by daily tranches of bad news that feed the circulation figures of the international press and represent a significant proportion of the reasons why so many people are glued to places like Thai Visa, trying to find answers or clues - give me the BOT or BOE reports everyone asks, as though you and I might spot something that others have missed, pff!

Unfortunately these tranches are real jobs being lost as I write this.

Relax I say, if those stability blocks of our perceived future are not there in five or ten years, chances are that we won't be either, I reckon however that they will be. As for where the money will come from to finance those things, do we really care at this stage in the game?

Well I, and indeed many others, care very much where our money comes from in five years. The money I have is all in cash and invested in savings accounts. At my age and in these economic conditions it is a waste of time to even think about finding employment. So, with, until recently most of my money invested in GBP's which are now worth 25% less and providing 60% less income, and on a downward slope, coupled with the loss of a fair chunk of hard earned cash due to Iceland, I care and many millions of others also care about where we are and where all this is heading.

Do you really not care and think that a global war is the solution?

[Neeranam]

What is the current GBP amount of the UK state pension?

If you have 30 years of paid up NI contributions it's slightly more than £90 per week, presumably it decreases proportionally for the number of years up to 30 that remain unpaid.

I have paid 5 years, will I get 15 a week?

[Rinrada]

You can get a forcast on the Government Gateway site.

You will need your Ni No..plus provide some info on how many years you recon you have been in the UK...etc...

Bit time consuming coz they will send you a password and ID registration......all very MI5 type hush hush...still you gotta persevere.....

anyway whacked in my details and got this back......

Your forecast is an estimate based on the information you have given us.

All amounts are shown in today's money values.

To check how different situations could affect your State Pension use the What if? links on this screen.

Your National Insurance (NI) contribution record up to 5 Apr 2008 shows that you have

30 qualifying years, giving you 30/30 of the full amount of Basic Pension.

Total weekly State Pension earned to 5 Apr 2008 = £108.35 week...

lotsa changes coming in 2010-12.......could be big increases to comply with EU regs........Good....

[Rinrada]

You can get a forcast on the Government Gateway site.

You will need your Ni No..plus provide some info on how many years you recon you have been in the UK...etc...

Bit time consuming coz they will send you a password and ID registration......all very MI5 type hush hush...still you gotta persevere.....

anyway whacked in my details and got this back......

Your forecast is an estimate based on the information you have given us.

All amounts are shown in today's money values.

To check how different situations could affect your State Pension use the What if? links on this screen.

Your National Insurance (NI) contribution record up to 5 Apr 2008 shows that you have

30 qualifying years, giving you 30/30 of the full amount of Basic Pension.

Total weekly State Pension earned to 5 Apr 2008 = £108.35 week...

lotsa changes coming in 2010-12.......could be big increases to comply with EU regs........Good....

Info...GOVERMENT GATEWAY....

www.gateway.gov.uk

[marshbags]

The following thread was opened by Operator on 2008-11-05 and contains lots of debate and useful information

Excellent informative post Marshbags. I have come to expect nothing less from you

Thanks for the encouraging words BJ

This makes it at least 3 members who appreciate my imput

We must all keep plugging away with our good intentions and not always agreed upon observations.

You deserve much more, especially with your football threads that are always appreciated by everyone who supports the game / teams.

Good old fashioned banter comes to mind

marshbags

Edited January 12, 2009 by marshbags

[chiang mai]

Your point is well made but frankly, I think my earlier advice still stands, everyone should just try to relax a little bit more. I don't know how many years away you are personally from the official retirement age of 65 but I reach that point in time in x years, two months and eighteen days, not that I'm counting or that it really matters from a pension point of view. I take the view that the State Pension, like many UK banks and other financial institutions are things that are too big to fail, the ramifications for the alternatives in this day and age are too dire to even consider - one has to go to the levels of Mad Max movies to imagine those things.

There are already pension schemes which have failed. Lehman has failed. Madoff, a single Human Being managed to reallocate 50,000,000,000 Dollars, Barings was brought down by Leeson. I am facing a five figure sum loss in GBP due to the Icelandic banking system failing. Ireland would have followed with my savings if it was not part of the Euro and the Irish government issued a 100% guarantee (which they cannot afford).

Barings, that's going back a while! Iceland: I thought that savers were being covered on that, if not I'm sorry that you were unlucky but I suspect it will come out OK in the end. Ireland: would have followed IF, but it didn't.

And then we come to

Governments around the world will adopt quantitative easing or any other means necessary to avoid the civil unrest and massive upheaval that accompany the alternatives. The outcome of adopting those alternatives may not be pleasant for us or our offspring and a part of the long term solution might well involve, as history has taught us to date, a major armed conflict or two! Regardless, normal service will be resumed at some point.

Great! So my National Pension is provided with GBPs worth their weight in a promise from Gordon Brown's halitosis ridden mouth organ, but will not buy me a single beer in Thailand? And this, as part of the long term solution according to you, could well be accompanied by a major war? Well, really, have you thought this through?

Quantitative easing, or creating new money out of nothing, destroys the value of the existing money and will end up with rampant inflation. The UK government is lying about the enemy deflation, which has been going on for a decade, and is lying about the lack of funds available to invest. There is a lot of money sloshing around. The "credit squeeze" is all about the plain fact that there is nothing to invest in at the moment as asset prices are falling and there are no customers for anything produced in the UK.

The current economic picture is dominated by daily tranches of bad news that feed the circulation figures of the international press and represent a significant proportion of the reasons why so many people are glued to places like Thai Visa, trying to find answers or clues - give me the BOT or BOE reports everyone asks, as though you and I might spot something that others have missed, pff!

Unfortunately these tranches are real jobs being lost as I write this.

Relax I say, if those stability blocks of our perceived future are not there in five or ten years, chances are that we won't be either, I reckon however that they will be. As for where the money will come from to finance those things, do we really care at this stage in the game?

Well I, and indeed many others, care very much where our money comes from in five years. The money I have is all in cash and invested in savings accounts. At my age and in these economic conditions it is a waste of time to even think about finding employment. So, with, until recently most of my money invested in GBP's which are now worth 25% less and providing 60% less income, and on a downward slope, coupled with the loss of a fair chunk of hard earned cash due to Iceland, I care and many millions of others also care about where we are and where all this is heading.

Do you really not care and think that a global war is the solution?

I was going to respond a on a point by point basis but then after reading your post again I decided against that idea because basically you seem to be worried about everything from things that happened fifteen years ago (Barings) to things that could happen in five years time! From what you have written we are of similar a age and like you I also have all my assets in cash and live in Thailand hence I need income - you are therefore not alone in this mess.

I also care about "where we are" currently but unlike you I am not too worried about where we will be in say five years time. Why? Because for the moment I have done all the things that are reasonable to do to protect my assets and my income and I know I will be diligent about continuing to monitor events and make changes as necessary. But I can only do so much and I can only take so many defensive actions covering roughly the next twelve months. I feel at this time can't react to events beyond one year out because too many things will have changed so I'll need to wait and see, that doesn't mean I am not concerned about the impact of quantitative easing, deflation, inflation, the strength of the Baht, the weakness of the Pound, global wars and asteroids that may destroy the Earth before I finish the Times crossword! But I ask you, what realistically could I do about any of those things, knowing that any one of them will happen for sure doesn't change my strategy of looking at a one year time horizon and continuing to adapt as new confirmed data emerges.

I'll say it again, there's only so much that people can do and when they've done those things they need to switch off a little and relax, the alternative to that is to sit glued to the news wire every minute of every day and to worry about everything under the sun. For what it's worth I have great confidence that the UK State Pension scheme will still be there in six years time and that my occupational pension will have recovered it's current losses in that time frame also. Finally, you ask if I care about global wars and think it's a part of the solution, yes I care and yes I think it's part of the probable solution because historically at times such as these it always has been. Do I like it, no, can I influence it, no, am I going to worry about, no.

[goonerthegooner]

Hey any of you Pensioners out there can help me with this question.

Have been here in Thailand for 4 years,as no address in the UK too use,my State Pension is frozen with no increases.

I have heard if i return too the Uk they will update it with the increases.

Anybody know how long in days or weeks i have too be in the UK for this too be done??

Thanks Guys,

[desertrat]

mmmmm......pensions depreciating and some even failing. so glad I've always been basically boracic, and learned to live on a damp patch.

It seems that those with the greatest worries had plenty but wanted even more., and finished up with less.

As I'm always recommending books to my readers try "The Ascent of Money" by Niall Ferguson

ex Glaswegian slum boy now Harvard Professor, very up to date, and very revealing.

[mrbojangles]

Total weekly State Pension earned to 5 Apr 2008 = £108.35 week...

Don't spend it all at once Rin

[sleepyjohn]

I can see a pragmatic and possibly fair reason why the pension should not increase.....

Those spending their pensions in the UK will be setting in motion a chain of payments out of which taxes direct or indirect will take a certain percentage. I'm guessing this must be an % amount not less than inflation. This will go back into the government coffers in turn helping keep the pensions up. Those living abroad will not be so doing. They will instead be modestly subsidising the Thai tax coffers through their spending. As they didn't pay income taxes through their life here to build up some of the communal benefits they enjoy, that seems not unequitable.

I have no idea of the official justification for no increase and whether my suggestion comes into it.

......but perhaps it'll help you feel better.....

John

Edited January 12, 2009 by sleepyjohn

[PattayaParent]

Dependent adults

You may get £54.35 (in 2008/09) for a husband, wife or a person looking after children, paid with your State Pension (based on your NI contributions).

So, if you marry thai, and have child, can claim this extra £54.35 ? per month?

Another point, does a thai spouse get a percentage of pension if/when you die?

This is the answer I got when I asked about a foriegn wife living overseas and UK pension entitlement.

Thank you for contacting International Pension Centre.

If your wife is under pension age, she would be entitled to a bereavement benefit based on the National Insurance contributions you have made. If your wife is over pension age we would allow her to inherit your pension entitlement

Yours sincerely

+44 191 2187777

Customer Services Unit

International Pension Centre

www.thepensionservice.gov.uk

[davyboy]

Dependent adults

You may get £54.35 (in 2008/09) for a husband, wife or a person looking after children, paid with your State Pension (based on your NI contributions).

So, if you marry thai, and have child, can claim this extra £54.35 ? per month?

Another point, does a thai spouse get a percentage of pension if/when you die?

I believe the spouse payment is the old marriage allowance!

[phusingpete]

I can see a pragmatic and possibly fair reason why the pension should not increase.....

Those spending their pensions in the UK will be setting in motion a chain of payments out of which taxes direct or indirect will take a certain percentage. I'm guessing this must be an % amount not less than inflation. This will go back into the government coffers in turn helping keep the pensions up. Those living abroad will not be so doing. They will instead be modestly subsidising the Thai tax coffers through their spending. As they didn't pay income taxes through their life here to build up some of the communal benefits they enjoy, that seems not unequitable.

I have no idea of the official justification for no increase and whether my suggestion comes into it.

......but perhaps it'll help you feel better.....

John

On the other hand I and I am sure many others living in Thailand are paying taxes to the British state , these taxes will increase when you receive the state pension, even though we do not benefit from any British amenities.

[prodriver]

Hey any of you Pensioners out there can help me with this question. Have been here in Thailand for 4 years,as no address in the UK too use,my State Pension is frozen with no increases. I have heard if i return too the Uk they will update it with the increases. Anybody know how long in days or weeks i have too be in the UK for this too be done?? Thanks Guys,

Not 100% sure but I went back to the UK for a few months last year and tried to get back into the 'system'. I'm between 60 and 65 and when I enquired about getting 'pension credits' and 'job seeker's allowance', I was told each time that I had to have been back in the UK for at least 6 months and 1 day to be able to qualify. All to do apparently in being classed as 'resident'. I therefore assume that the same may apply when returning from abroad before one can get their pension upgraded (unfrozen)to the current amount.

[thaimate]

Hey any of you Pensioners out there can help me with this question. Have been here in Thailand for 4 years,as no address in the UK too use,my State Pension is frozen with no increases. I have heard if i return too the Uk they will update it with the increases. Anybody know how long in days or weeks i have too be in the UK for this too be done?? Thanks Guys,

Not 100% sure but I went back to the UK for a few months last year and tried to get back into the 'system'. I'm between 60 and 65 and when I enquired about getting 'pension credits' and 'job seeker's allowance', I was told each time that I had to have been back in the UK for at least 6 months and 1 day to be able to qualify. All to do apparently in being classed as 'resident'. I therefore assume that the same may apply when returning from abroad before one can get their pension upgraded (unfrozen)to the current amount.

correct.

[sumrit]

Hey any of you Pensioners out there can help me with this question.

Have been here in Thailand for 4 years,as no address in the UK too use,my State Pension is frozen with no increases.

I have heard if i return too the Uk they will update it with the increases.

Anybody know how long in days or weeks i have too be in the UK for this too be done??

Thanks Guys,

Not sure but if you get any type of means tested benefit whilst living in the UK I've been told it stops once you have been out of the country for more than eight weeks so that is possibly the length of time to qualify to become resident in the UK again.

[endure]

I can see a pragmatic and possibly fair reason why the pension should not increase.....

Those spending their pensions in the UK will be setting in motion a chain of payments out of which taxes direct or indirect will take a certain percentage. I'm guessing this must be an % amount not less than inflation. This will go back into the government coffers in turn helping keep the pensions up. Those living abroad will not be so doing. They will instead be modestly subsidising the Thai tax coffers through their spending. As they didn't pay income taxes through their life here to build up some of the communal benefits they enjoy, that seems not unequitable.

I have no idea of the official justification for no increase and whether my suggestion comes into it.

......but perhaps it'll help you feel better.....

John

That would be the case if all expat pensioners were treated the same but they aren't. Whether or not you get the annual increases depends on which country you've chosen to live in viz:

"If you are living abroad on a permanent basis you may be entitled to the annual increase to your State Pension rates if you live in an EEA country*, Switzerland, or a country that has a reciprocal social security agreement with the UK**.

If you live abroad in any other country you will not receive an annual increase.

* The EEA countries are Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Cyprus, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain and Sweden. The UK is also part of the EEA. UK means England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Gibraltar is treated as another EEA country by the UK. Other EEA countries treat Gibraltar as part of the UK.

** Countries with reciprocal agreements are Barbados, Bermuda, Israel (the agreement with Israel applies to the territory administered by the Government of Israel on 19 July 1956), Jamaica, Jersey and Guernsey, Isle of Man, Mauritius, Philippines, Turkey, USA and the separate republics of the former Yugoslavia that are not EU Member States (Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia, Montenegro, the Republic of Macedonia and Serbia). Increases are also payable in Sark under the UK domestic legislation. "

[astral]

It is an outrage.

I have paid UK tax most of my life and my social security payments.

Now I am told I will receive no increases because I choose to live abroad.

They should be paying me EXTRA as I will not be calling on the National Health system.

[sgunn65]

Presumably if you have a UK address and bank account (or can use a UK address) and don't tell the authorities then have your pension paid into your UK bank they don't need to know you are living in Thailand. Just a thought.

[dumball]

I found a guy in a G/house I use in a terribly distressed state , having been there , done that I decided to help him , he was very appreciative . however , after a couple of months when all was going well , his DIL decided she would claim his maisonette where her and her husband and chidren were in residence , the agency threw the family out of the maisonette and cut off his pension . I fixed him up wirh a lady teacher I had met , she let him sleep in a spare room whilst my wife and I continued to feed him , he suddenly disappeared taking the cell phone we had loaned him never to be heard from again .

Moral of the story , WATCH YOUR BACK if you intend scamming the UK government , all could be forfieted for a few extra dollars (pounds) , should you wait 5 years as I did , they will pay you 50% extra on your pension .

[JohnC]

I have to agree with a previous poster in that readers really need to read the website as every case is different. For example, the 30 years of payments does not come into effect until 2010 and then only for people who are 65 after 6th April 2010, for those who reach 65 prior to that date then the 44 year rules apply. Pensions are paid pro rata for those years that NI payments were made. Married couples allowance which is now called ADI (Adult Dependance Increase) also changes on 6th April 2010, from that date it is abolished but married couples can apply for a means tested benefit so not sure how you can do that from Thaialnd. For those who qualify for ADI prior to 6th April 2010 this will continue until 2020 when it will cease and the means tested benefit will replace it. Note also for younger members that the retirement age is being raised in increments from 2024 in stages from current 65 to 68 by 2042. Full info available at : http://www.thepensionservice.gov.uk/home.asp

Re the case at The European Court of Human rights see http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/pen...icle5079275.ece.

I understand this is subject to appeal.

[yabaaaa]

Really, the rules are so simple it is difficult to understand why there is any discussion at all.

If you retire to live in the EEC or Switzerland or a country with an agreement to allow the increases (includes Philippines, but NOT Thailand NOR Australia) then you will get a cost of living increase. All the information is available in the link above.

The UK pension service is very good at answering letters. Just ask them for you current entitlement and they will send you a very detailed breakdown of all your contributions and also indicate if you can increase your entitlement by making further voluntary contributions. Note that if you have been divorced and your spouse continued to work, you may gain extra credits from their contributions. This worked very well in my case and I gained an extra six or so years, which was worth over 2,500 Quid, didn't quite compensate for all the money I lost, but it was a pleasant and unexpected bonus.

The big problem I see is that will the UK taxpayers be able to afford to pay my pension?

Hey maybe eaiser to tell Thailand to "allow this" then and stop wasting time with the uk govt.

[4.real]

Thanks all for your input.

I have paid 44 years of 'stamps' and could have opted out.

The problem with doing that was that the very clever British government divided my payment into 2 parts.the employees contribution And the EMPLOYER's contribution.

This 'employers'sum I could not have paid into a private pension.

It is my opinion that BOTH contributions had to be earned by me any prospective employer would take this figure intio account when working out the cost of my employ.

The british government have fooled the people into believeing that they only pay half the cost of their national insurance stamps.

I hope the appeal mentions this fact.

I will also be taxed while living abroad and receiving my 2 pensions.

The government's reason for this unfair taxation is 'The pensions are paid from England'.

Thanks again all. 4.Real.

[Rinrada]

I have to agree with a previous poster in that readers really need to read the website as every case is different. For example, the 30 years of payments does not come into effect until 2010 and then only for people who are 65 after 6th April 2010, for those who reach 65 prior to that date then the 44 year rules apply. Pensions are paid pro rata for those years that NI payments were made. Married couples allowance which is now called ADI (Adult Dependance Increase) also changes on 6th April 2010, from that date it is abolished but married couples can apply for a means tested benefit so not sure how you can do that from Thaialnd. For those who qualify for ADI prior to 6th April 2010 this will continue until 2020 when it will cease and the means tested benefit will replace it. Note also for younger members that the retirement age is being raised in increments from 2024 in stages from current 65 to 68 by 2042. Full info available at : http://www.thepensionservice.gov.uk/home.asp

Re the case at The European Court of Human rights see http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/pen...icle5079275.ece.

I understand this is subject to appeal.

YES indeed...NOT over by a long chalk.......

526,000 resident overseas whose pensions are frozen

The International Consortium of British Pensioners (ICBP) has instructed its legal team to seek referral of the Carson, Jackson and Others v the United Kingdom case to the Grand Chamber of the European Court of Human Rights.

This action follows the 4 November 2008 judgment of a Chamber of the Court which, in a 6-to-1 decision, rejected the Applicants' challenge to the United Kingdom's refusal to uprate in line with inflation the state pensions of over 50 per cent of UK pensioners resident overseas.

The Consortium remains of the view that the Applicants' case raises very serious questions affecting the interpretation and application of the European Convention on Human Rights and the protection of the fundamental rights of 11.5 million pensioners, including 526,000 resident overseas whose pensions are frozen and 11 million still resident in the UK who suffer severely reduced freedom of choice as to where to live in retirement without loss of income.

ICBP Chairman Tony Bockman (pictured) confirmed that all five of the consortium's partner organizations and the 13 Applicants are deeply angered by the fact that the reasoning of the majority of the Chamber judges appears to have made the fundamental error of treating this as a social security case rather than a pension case.

"It's as though they set out to simply reiterate the May 2005 decision of the House of Lords, rather than fully examine this immoral discriminatory practice of the UK government," says Bockman. "The dissenting judge, Chamber President Lech Garlicki, got it right when he said, 'Considerations of social justice and equity require that persons who have duly contributed towards the pensions of others should not be treated differently in the subsequent calculation of their own pension. Differential treatment based solely on current residence has no link to the contributory nature of pensions and, therefore, is deprived of a reasonable justification.'

"The Chamber's judgment has an extremely adverse effect on the most vulnerable in society," continues Bockman. "The livelihoods of more than half a million elderly are directly affected, impelling many into poverty after paying pension dues throughout their working lives. In addition, it also forces thousands still living in the UK into a life of loneliness, unable to join their children and grandchildren overseas due to the threat of loss of income should they do so, thus denying them those wonderful experiences of sharing their later years with family, surely a right that none of us expected to have taken away from us.

"I have been absolutely bowled over by the number of our members around the world – literally hundreds so far – who have taken the time to contact me since November 4 in order to express their anger with the Chamber's decision and to urge us to proceed with the application for referral to the Grand Chamber.

They can rest assured that we are indeed doing so."

Tony Bockman can be reached at [email protected] or through the website below.

Relevant links

The International Consortium of British Pensioners

[davyboy]

Thank you Rinrada for a very informative post.

[gennisis]

Some time back I read a thread regarding the uk state pension. I understand that anyone living in Thailand would not qualify for any yearly increases.The case ,I believe ,was heard and lost in the european courts.

Is there any appeal ongoing and how can I get more information regarding this case?

Thanks in advance.4.Real

True, it's frozen from the time you move abroad if you are already over 65 or at the current level when you reach 65 if you are already living abroad. I at any time you return to live in the UK you can apply to have your pension increased to the current level, so maybe any extended holiday back in the UK should initialy be 'a return to live there' then decide that you don't want to stay after all once the increase has been awarded.

Not that I am suggesting anyone would do this,but paying a visit to the Phillipines(where the UK pension is paid with the yearly increases) and arranging an 'accomodating address' would allow the ex pat to benefit.Any correspondance would be forwarded to Thailand.

Whats the old addage??...where theres a way........

[4.real]

I have to agree with a previous poster in that readers really need to read the website as every case is different. For example, the 30 years of payments does not come into effect until 2010 and then only for people who are 65 after 6th April 2010, for those who reach 65 prior to that date then the 44 year rules apply. Pensions are paid pro rata for those years that NI payments were made. Married couples allowance which is now called ADI (Adult Dependance Increase) also changes on 6th April 2010, from that date it is abolished but married couples can apply for a means tested benefit so not sure how you can do that from Thaialnd. For those who qualify for ADI prior to 6th April 2010 this will continue until 2020 when it will cease and the means tested benefit will replace it. Note also for younger members that the retirement age is being raised in increments from 2024 in stages from current 65 to 68 by 2042. Full info available at : http://www.thepensionservice.gov.uk/home.asp

Re the case at The European Court of Human rights see http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/pen...icle5079275.ece.

I understand this is subject to appeal.

YES indeed...NOT over by a long chalk.......

526,000 resident overseas whose pensions are frozen

The International Consortium of British Pensioners (ICBP) has instructed its legal team to seek referral of the Carson, Jackson and Others v the United Kingdom case to the Grand Chamber of the European Court of Human Rights.

This action follows the 4 November 2008 judgment of a Chamber of the Court which, in a 6-to-1 decision, rejected the Applicants' challenge to the United Kingdom's refusal to uprate in line with inflation the state pensions of over 50 per cent of UK pensioners resident overseas.

The Consortium remains of the view that the Applicants' case raises very serious questions affecting the interpretation and application of the European Convention on Human Rights and the protection of the fundamental rights of 11.5 million pensioners, including 526,000 resident overseas whose pensions are frozen and 11 million still resident in the UK who suffer severely reduced freedom of choice as to where to live in retirement without loss of income.

ICBP Chairman Tony Bockman (pictured) confirmed that all five of the consortium's partner organizations and the 13 Applicants are deeply angered by the fact that the reasoning of the majority of the Chamber judges appears to have made the fundamental error of treating this as a social security case rather than a pension case.

"It's as though they set out to simply reiterate the May 2005 decision of the House of Lords, rather than fully examine this immoral discriminatory practice of the UK government," says Bockman. "The dissenting judge, Chamber President Lech Garlicki, got it right when he said, 'Considerations of social justice and equity require that persons who have duly contributed towards the pensions of others should not be treated differently in the subsequent calculation of their own pension. Differential treatment based solely on current residence has no link to the contributory nature of pensions and, therefore, is deprived of a reasonable justification.'

"The Chamber's judgment has an extremely adverse effect on the most vulnerable in society," continues Bockman. "The livelihoods of more than half a million elderly are directly affected, impelling many into poverty after paying pension dues throughout their working lives. In addition, it also forces thousands still living in the UK into a life of loneliness, unable to join their children and grandchildren overseas due to the threat of loss of income should they do so, thus denying them those wonderful experiences of sharing their later years with family, surely a right that none of us expected to have taken away from us.

"I have been absolutely bowled over by the number of our members around the world – literally hundreds so far – who have taken the time to contact me since November 4 in order to express their anger with the Chamber's decision and to urge us to proceed with the application for referral to the Grand Chamber.

They can rest assured that we are indeed doing so." :jap:

Tony Bockman can be reached at [email protected] or through the website below.

Relevant links

The International Consortium of British Pensioners

Thanks very much for this information.I will contact Tony Bockman and hope that all reading this who are due a british state pension and wish to live abroad will do the same.

4.Real.

Edited January 14, 2009 by 4.real

[prakhonchai nick]

Hey any of you Pensioners out there can help me with this question.

Have been here in Thailand for 4 years,as no address in the UK too use,my State Pension is frozen with no increases.

I have heard if i return too the Uk they will update it with the increases.

Anybody know how long in days or weeks i have too be in the UK for this too be done??

Thanks Guys,

You are eligible for the increase for any period you spend back in the UK, There is no waiting period.

Basically you tell them a couple of weeks in advance of your proposed visit advising them of you anticipated arrival and departure dates, and also provide them with an address and telephone number in the UK where they can contact you.

Once back in Thailand, your pension reverts to the original frozen rate.

[Rinrada]

I have had an account with the Bank of the Coconut islands for about 20 years and always knew it might come in handy one day...not a lota dosh in it just enough to keep it going...and not suggesting anything.

http://www.bpi.com.ph/

However also always maintained an address at Rosies Bar and Rest (..on the beach at La Union...Balabigannn or summit) but just heard that my mate has finally bought some land on the same beach and will be building a house.shortly..married to a Philo..so looks like a new holiday address...

Not 2 far from Chiang Mai...init....isit...

Also believe that immigration rules have recently changed over there...for the better...if only somebody in LOS could maybe have a shuftie......

[Nignoy]

Thanks all for your input.

I have paid 44 years of 'stamps' and could have opted out.

The problem with doing that was that the very clever British government divided my payment into 2 parts.the employees contribution And the EMPLOYER's contribution.

This 'employers'sum I could not have paid into a private pension.

It is my opinion that BOTH contributions had to be earned by me any prospective employer would take this figure intio account when working out the cost of my employ.

The british government have fooled the people into believeing that they only pay half the cost of their national insurance stamps.

I hope the appeal mentions this fact.

I will also be taxed while living abroad and receiving my 2 pensions.

The government's reason for this unfair taxation is 'The pensions are paid from England'.

Thanks again all. 4.Real.

Dont be fooled by the UK government,they spun us the same bullshit line about only rolling over the employees contributions when we came to Aus in 96, Our financial advisors took them to court and we won , it wasa testcase which many expats here in aus and nz have benefitted from!!