How To Gain Parental Rights As A Father When Not Married

[thaitwintots]

Had a baby at Samitivej about 12 days ago with my Thai girlfriend and, having read only the first page of this topic, mistakenly thought I understood the process of registering the birth with the Amphur to be sure of parental rights. Only now that I've read the rest of the posts on here have I realized that I'm only listed once on the birth certificate - which means he's already been registered?? It was a confusing conversation with the hospital in explaining my request of wanting to register the birth myself. They apparently thought I only wanted to register the kid with the mother's family's "tabien baan?" They actually misspelled his name in Thai - and since it's still less than 15 days since his birth, I'm going to return to the hospital and address these issues with them today (Thursday.) What are the chances of success in actually registering him myself this time? Strange how ignorant these hospitals seem to be regarding their clients' parental rights. I need to get this resolved today - would appreciate any assistance any of you might have. Thanks.

[mjperry]

That stupid woman who deals with the amphur registrations at Samitivej knows exactly what you were trying to do, she just doesn't seem very happy in her job and just does whatever is easiest for her. When my son was born there almost 2 months ago now I knew exactly what I needed to do from the info on here luckily. She played dumb at first but I went with her to the amphur and registered our son myself at the district office on Thong Lor, after it was done and I explained to her what i was doing to get my name shown twice on the birth certificate she said she knew what i was doing which was very annoying.

Not sure you can do anything at the amphur now your son's already registered, from the advice given out here, it seems you will have to go the legal route with lawyers and courts. But I will let others more knowledgeable about that reply in more detail.

Martin

Had a baby at Samitivej about 12 days ago with my Thai girlfriend and, having read only the first page of this topic, mistakenly thought I understood the process of registering the birth with the Amphur to be sure of parental rights. Only now that I've read the rest of the posts on here have I realized that I'm only listed once on the birth certificate - which means he's already been registered?? It was a confusing conversation with the hospital in explaining my request of wanting to register the birth myself. They apparently thought I only wanted to register the kid with the mother's family's "tabien baan?" They actually misspelled his name in Thai - and since it's still less than 15 days since his birth, I'm going to return to the hospital and address these issues with them today (Thursday.) What are the chances of success in actually registering him myself this time? Strange how ignorant these hospitals seem to be regarding their clients' parental rights. I need to get this resolved today - would appreciate any assistance any of you might have. Please feel free to ring/text me directly if possible. Thanks!

[thaitwintots]

That stupid woman who deals with the amphur registrations at Samitivej...

...appears to be Mrs. Wannasri Chaikesorn. Her name is in the "Birth Informant" section on the birth certificate. Thanks for the reply - will talk with her as soon as they open and hope for the best.

[Mario2008]

Unfortunately it means that you didn't legitimize the child as you didn't register the birth yourself. I would definitely complain about this to the hospital.

I don't think you can correct this problem and now will have to go to court to legitimize the child. This will cost you and you will also have to file for joined custody. But it shouldn't be a problem, as the mother will support your claim. In your case it will be more or less a formality. (Another way of legitimization is by marrying the mother, so if you have plans to get married in the near future you might want to consider not to go to court but to wit till you get married).

The misspelling is serious and must be addressed as soon as possible. It shouldn't be a problem, but might take some paperwork and time.

[thaitwintots]

Voila! It took serious determination, but managed to get new documents issued with my son's correct name and me listed as the birth informant. Encountered "mai dai" at practically every step of the process, first at the hospital and then at the Amphur, but knew it would be more difficult later if not sorted now. Woman at the Amphur requested a letter from the hospital director before she'd consider the change, but was able to acquire such a thing the next day. Not sure whether it was the hospital or Amphur who was truly against the idea of the father being listed as birth informant, or both - but seems at least one of the two dislikes enabling foreigners to be legally responsible for Thai children. Definitely my opinion though, as there could be other explanations for the complications. The woman at the Amphur asked a few personal questions after she was being convinced into making the change - things like where I work, where I plan to live, if I'm going to be leaving the country with the child - felt a bit like I was being interviewed for the job of being a real dad. For anyone going into a similar situation - being clear that you want to be listed TWICE on the birth certificate is the key (as father AND birth informant), which is performed WHILE the birth certificate is initially issued at the Amphur. I'm glad to provide a scan of a birth certificate that can be shown to clarify such a request. Good luck and thanks!

[Mario2008]

Great you where able to sort it out and they were willing to help you. Well done and congratulations you don't have to go to a whole procedure to get it sorted.

[Mario2008]

Sad to say, but it now seems that registering the birth of the child as the father is not enough to legitimise a child. See topic running here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Article-Chil...dy-t327932.html

[ahmed_naji]

I`m only finding out now that when registering the babys` birth at the amphur the father must be named, unlike UK where it can be left blank.

My girlfriend gave birth in January to our son and as I couldn`t be there her Uncle is named as the father. i`ve met him and his family several times and am amazed he can be named as the father, just for the purpose of paperworks. He lives in Chonburi, my girlfriend in Korat.

Is it true I only needed to send a copy of my passport to her to register me as the father ?

She told me the names can be changed later, when I return on my next trip. Is this correct ?

Correct, any male can be named as the father on the BC. Your girlfirend should have named you on the BC, that she didn't will make things much more complicated.

You didn't recognized the child as yours (legalise it) and now you are in trouble getting this rectified. On the Thai side you ight be able to get it recitified if you marry the mother or when the child turns about 7 years old and can testify that you are his father. I would recommend consulting a lwayer, as you are not named on the BC. That might complicate things. I suggest contacting forum sponsor isaan lawyers, you find them at the top of this page.

Also for registering the child as yours with your own country you might be in trouble, as you are not named on the BC. Contact your embassy about what to do.

I just want to add something, I was in the same situation as you are right now, so in order for you to register your name on the birth certificate as a father, first you need to do paternity test (DNA test) to prove that you are a father, that will be done in particular Hospital in Bangkok that approved by ministry of health. After getting the result, then you have to go to the place that the birth certificate was issued and explain to them, show them your test result and they will rectify the matter. This is my experience when I was in your situation. [/b][/b]

[Mattd]

Interesting topic and one that affects a lot of expats here in Thailand!

In my particular case my first son was born prematurely, the original plan was to marry before he was born, but this changed that idea!

My name is on the birth certificate once as father only (the hospital did not give me any choice regarding the registration of the birth and I did not know any different).

We married 6 weeks after he was born.

My second son was born in wedlock, the registration process however was the same as the first time, i.e. all handled by the hospital and my name on the birth certificate as father only.

Both have Thai and British passports, the first son being a lot more difficult to get the British one due to the marriage situation at the time of his birth!

So question is, as we were not actually married at the date of the first son's birth, then do I need to 'legalize' him now (he is 10) even though we married shortly after?

I'm presuming the second son is not a problem, as we were married when he was born.

As a footnote, I've never had any problems with the Thai authorities with regards to signing things as the father with the first son (Passport application etc.)

[Mario2008]

Don't worry. You have legitimized your first child automatically when you married the mother. That is one of the methods mentioned in the law to legitimize a child born out of wedlock.

[randy2428]

How to gain parental rights as a father when not married.

If the mother is not married, the law makes no such assumption. The fahter must be named on the birth certificate, but that is not enough. Anyone can be named on a birth certificate as the father, without that person knowing him. Therefor if the parents are not married the law wants the father to confirm he is indeed the father. In Thailand that is done by the fahter registering the baby himself.

If someone else registers the baby, the fahter didn't legalise the baby and he is not considered the legal father of the baby.

So remember, if you are not married and want to be the legal father of your child register the baby yourself at the amphur. Registration of a newborn has to be made within 15 days.

lol, I should have known that earlier, would have saved me four months and 15000 baht. The hospital staff was just too eager to help and did the registration for us. Well, in the future we'll know better and choke off any effort they make trying to 'help us' with the paperwork.

Very interesting information....

What can you tell me about farang parental rights in regards to the following.

I dated a girl. We got pregnant. She stated I would never see this child if I did not marry her...

How can I gain any kind of visitation or rights to be the father of this child? Is there anything I can do??

[Mario2008]

You can legitimise the child by going to the court and ask to be recogised as the legal father. (If mother and child agree to this you can do this at the amphur. If either one of the disagrees or the child is not yet about years old the only way is to petition the court). Next it is the court who will decide on the claim that you are the father.

See: http://www.thailawonline.com/images/thaici...l%20code%20.pdf

section 1547 and following.

Next comes the question of you getting shared custody with the mother or visitition rights. That is a seperate issue from legalisation, which the mother also can contest. I recommend getting a good lawyer, like thailawonline. They can answer your questions about this aspect much better than me. I don't know if you would have any chance.

Trying to get visitation rights by talking with the mother should be your first priority. If the mother disagrees and doesn't want to cooperate it can still be a drame for you and the child and everybody loses. No matter what a judge decides. Only when that fails should you go to court.

[Chanok]

Does any statistics regarding foreign father vs Thai mother etc. going to court battling custody exist???

What is the average/normal ruling???

[Mario2008]

The normal rulling is that the court decide what would be in the interest of the child. Their is no bias towrds foreigners and in most cases the parents will have shared custody, with the child staying at one parent and the other having visitation rights.

[MikeyIdea]

Chanok, I think that Mario2008 answers it best - the court decides what is in the interest of the child - That is generally shared custody

I have followed 3 custody cases the last 6 months (2 farang Thai and one Thai Thai) and they all show the same - no bias against fathers and no bias against westerners. People who go to court don't necessarily get what they want but what is the best for the child they do get

Good Luck

[auserb]

How to gain parental rights as a father when not married.

If the mother is not married, the law makes no such assumption. The fahter must be named on the birth certificate, but that is not enough. Anyone can be named on a birth certificate as the father, without that person knowing him. Therefor if the parents are not married the law wants the father to confirm he is indeed the father. In Thailand that is done by the fahter registering the baby himself.

If someone else registers the baby, the fahter didn't legalise the baby and he is not considered the legal father of the baby.

So remember, if you are not married and want to be the legal father of your child register the baby yourself at the amphur. Registration of a newborn has to be made within 15 days.

lol, I should have known that earlier, would have saved me four months and 15000 baht. The hospital staff was just too eager to help and did the registration for us. Well, in the future we'll know better and choke off any effort they make trying to 'help us' with the paperwork.

Very interesting information....

What can you tell me about farang parental rights in regards to the following.

I dated a girl. We got pregnant. She stated I would never see this child if I did not marry her...

How can I gain any kind of visitation or rights to be the father of this child? Is there anything I can do??

I have been involved with thai lady for some 4 years. We have a 14 months baby boy, At the time of birth I was in Australia. Mother regigistered the baby , and she has my name as father, but her surname. So what happens now. Can I claim the baby and am I leagaly father

I do have birth cetificate with inglish translation....I still live in Australia and visitin her on occasions.

We do have arguments from time to time, and in anger she would say "you will never see my baby" should I take a DNA test to confirm if I am real father of the child???? then take steps later.. if so where can I have a DNA test?

[Chanok]

.. if so where can I have a DNA test?

You can have a DNA test done at certain hospitals.

However you need a letter from the court for the hospitals to accept to do it.

[Chanok]

The normal rulling is that the court decide what would be in the interest of the child. Their is no bias towrds foreigners and in most cases the parents will have shared custody, with the child staying at one parent and the other having visitation rights.

What about having the child living with one parent say two weeks and then two weeks with the other parent etc...

Is that set up an option in Thailand? (As it is overseas)

[Mario2008]

It might be an option.I guess the court has the liberty to order such agreement, especially if both parents agree. I myself must say that I'm not a great supporter of this kind of arrangement. As a social worker I have found that it is often very confusing to the child and leads to a lot of stress. A child psychiatrist I know is of the opinion that this kind of shared custody should be banned because many children suffer from this kind of arrangement and it is not in the interest of the child. Be very careful with this kind of arrangements.

The normal rulling is that the court decide what would be in the interest of the child. Their is no bias towrds foreigners and in most cases the parents will have shared custody, with the child staying at one parent and the other having visitation rights.

What about having the child living with one parent say two weeks and then two weeks with the other parent etc...

Is that set up an option in Thailand? (As it is overseas)

[Mario2008]

I have been involved with thai lady for some 4 years. We have a 14 months baby boy, At the time of birth I was in Australia. Mother regigistered the baby , and she has my name as father, but her surname. So what happens now. Can I claim the baby and am I leagaly father

I do have birth cetificate with inglish translation....I still live in Australia and visitin her on occasions.

We do have arguments from time to time, and in anger she would say "you will never see my baby" should I take a DNA test to confirm if I am real father of the child???? then take steps later.. if so where can I have a DNA test?

No, you are not the legal father. But can asked to be become the legal father. For that you will have to get a lawyer and petiton the Thai court. if the mother agrees it should be fairly easy. To gain parental rights will be an aditional step and will not be automatically.

If the child is legitimized he will probably also be an Australian citizen.

[Chanok]

Are there any lower 'age limit' regarding where the child should live?

I mean would the court always rule for the child to live with the mother if the child is under a certain age?

I'm talking about cases where both mother and father are suitable to be parents...

[Mario2008]

No, there is no age limit. A court will just decide what they think is in the best interest for the child. With a new born child the mother might be more suitable if both parents are suitable because of breastfeeding.

Are there any lower 'age limit' regarding where the child should live?

I mean would the court always rule for the child to live with the mother if the child is under a certain age?

I'm talking about cases where both mother and father are suitable to be parents...

[MikeyIdea]

I have been involved with thai lady for some 4 years. We have a 14 months baby boy, At the time of birth I was in Australia. Mother regigistered the baby , and she has my name as father, but her surname. So what happens now. Can I claim the baby and am I leagaly father

I do have birth cetificate with inglish translation....I still live in Australia and visitin her on occasions.

We do have arguments from time to time, and in anger she would say "you will never see my baby" should I take a DNA test to confirm if I am real father of the child???? then take steps later.. if so where can I have a DNA test?

DNA test is evidence that a court MAY need to confirm you to be the legal father of the child - if the mother contest that you are the biological father. Note that the DNA test itself doesn't make you father. If you want to ensure that your rights are recognised, then you will simply have to do what everybody else must do, there are 3 options - 1) Marry the girl 2) Take the issue to court or 3) Wait until the child is 6-7 years old and IF child, mother and father all agree, legitimize your child at the amphur

In option 2, petition the court, DNA will only be asked for if mother contest that you are the father. Good that the mother named you as father on the birth certificate, DNA will hardly be needed in your case. Petition the court sounds difficult but if mother agrees, then it is more a formality and not difficult at all. Doing it will give you responsibilities as well as rights. Note that you currently have zero responsibilities (and rights) for the child according to law and you don't have to pay anything either. If you do take this to court, then never accept anything less than legitimization and shared custody 50/50.

[Chanok]

People who go to court don't necessarily get what they want but what is the best for the child they do get

What is the best for the child in the mind of a Thai judge?

I would really like to hear some examples of court rulings in cases involving foreign fathers...

Does it pay to stand firm on the demand of 50% custody and the child staying 50% of the time with me the father?

And what if the mother chooses to disrespect the court ruling and again refuses the father to see the child?

[Mario2008]

Every judge will have its own opinion about what is best for the child. however, you can be assured they are not biased against foreigners and you're not worse off than in a European country.

The child staying 50%-50% with both parents is often not practical and not in the interest of the child. You could make such arrangement at the maphur if you divorce there.

[JoeCard]

?

Correct, any male can be named as the father on the BC. Your girlfirend should have named you on the BC, that she didn't will make things much more complicated.

You didn't recognized the child as yours (legalise it) and now you are in trouble getting this rectified. On the Thai side you ight be able to get it recitified if you marry the mother or when the child turns about 7 years old and can testify that you are his father. I would recommend consulting a lwayer, as you are not named on the BC. That might complicate things. I suggest contacting forum sponsor isaan lawyers, you find them at the top of this page.

Also for registering the child as yours with your own country you might be in trouble, as you are not named on the BC. Contact your embassy about what to do.

Good information, thank you Mario.

My wife (Thai - we got married abroad) is giving birth to our daughter by the end of next month in BuriRam.

She has a previous daughter, lovely girl. We would like our new daughter to have my wife's family name ( I like their name too), so both girls bear the same family name.

However, I will be the FATHER on the BC and (as I learn now) will be signing in for my daughters Thai passport before leaving Thailand a week after the birth (duty calls).

Is it possible for my daughter to carry her mothers family name instead of my name both in her BC and her Pass?

I would be grateful if you could throw some light on this subject.

Thank you,

Joe

[Mario2008]

Not sure if children can have their mothers family name, inquire at the amphur.

Regarding the birth of your daughter, don't worry. You are married and by law are automatically the legal fahter, regardless of who registered or even who is on the birth certificate.

If you didn't notify the marriage abroad with the Thai authorities, you might want to do it now. Than the Thai authorities know that you are the legal father. It would entail having the marriage certificate legalised by your embassy, next have it translated into Thai and than have it legalised by the Thai foreign ministry and after that going to an amphur.

[MikeyIdea]

I agree with everything Mario2008 says in theory, but I don't agree that it matters a bit practically

Thai authorities will think and act as if the mother has sole custody until the foreign marriage is legally registered in Thailand. Their computers say that the mother has sole custody (as no evidence proving otherwise exist in them) so why shouldn't they?

The powers that a marriage give is practically only recognised after it has been registered. Coming and waving a foreign marriage certificate means nothing in Thailand until it has legally been registered here. If mother and father is on good terms then it can be done at the amphur, if they are not, then only option is take it to court

Time to go and get the marriage registered in Thailand - there I totally agree with Mario2008

[jonnyscot]

Hi Mario, I wondered whether you can give your thoughts regarding the legalisation of the child, if the father is named on the birth certificate but did not register the birth himself, and has since used his name to gain a passport from the fathers native country for that child, he was married to the mother(thai marriage ceremony) at the time of birth but the marriage was not registered, where does the law stand, for your information the father has not been in contact with the child for more than 1 year and has never paid support for him, I am not the father but I support the child and love and care for him with his mother, I am considering possibilities for adoption or any other options available.

thanks

[Mario2008]

Currently the father doesn't seem to be the legal father and the mother has sole custody over the child. it can be cheked at the amphur, they keep a register about that.

For adoption this is however less important as he still has to give his concent to the adoption. The law provides however for the case he can not be found or his refusal is not reasonable. (In case of no contact it will soon not be reasonable I imagine).

For the adoption you will have to decide to do it as a Thai adoption or an international adoption. A Thai adoption is recognised by Thai law but probably not by your own country. An international adoption is more work, but in case you ever want to return to your home country the child will be recognised as yours there. The child might even get your nationality.

Edit:

article about adoption: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/redirect.php...and-regulations