Similans Tourists See Boat People Mistreated

[LivinLOS]

Thailand is a poor third world country what are they supposed to do give them room and board? I don't think these refugees should be abused at all but sending them back where they came from does not seem unreasonable.

No sending them back where they came from, and even harsh conditions while detained, wouldnt be cause for much comment given the 3rd world status Thailand seems to want to remain..

However 'tieing thier feet and throwing them in the sea' or dragging them to international waters and casting them adrift with a day or twos food and water is premeditated 'attempted murder' and the amount of them (800 in Dec alone claimed) borders on genocide !!

[ophelia]

A couple of years back, on a small island near Ranong, I also witnessed the Thai Military carry out an operation, similar to this one. A boat of refugees had been nabbed off shore, and brought to the beach on the island. The refugees, wearing only their lungis, and carrying nothing else, were herded off the boat, and, at gunpoint, made to kneel on the beach with their hands behind their heads. The military personnel were being quite rough with the refugees, cuffing them about the head and shoulders. They did give the refugees water, and administered a pill to each, (I was told it was something to combat the dehydration) and then moved in some big navy ships and moved all the now-prisoners to the larger vessels. They towed the boat these poor men had been in to another beach further south on the island, where it remained abandoned for a few weeks.

I was outraged when I saw what was going on. To my horror, no one else (Thais or farang) seemed to be. The local Thais had nothing good to say about the Burmese people, nothing good to say about muslims, and defended the military for 'getting' them and sending them back. Let's hope that's what they did, god knows what would have happened to these men and boys. The other farang around, were very busily and earnestly attempting to get me to shush, in case I caused myself some grief by interfering. Not likely. I wanted to, but approaching an angry man with a large weapon isn't amongst my plans for a simple life. I shouted out "Hey" or "We see that" each time they laid hands on the refugees, but more than that wasn't possible. While I don't think I endeared myself to the military dudes, the only reaction by them to my shout protest was laughter. They knew I was powerless to do anything about what they were up to, and they seemed to find it very amusing. It was all very disturbing.

I share this story only to confirm that this sort of thing has been going on for some time.

I was told afterwards that I was lucky I didn't get arrested myself. heh. sure, arrest the granny, for shouting. heroes.

[tartempion]

Honestly, what is worse? The attitude of the Thai army or the quasi absence of reaction of the tourists sunbathing a few meters away ?

Seriousely?

Didn't you read tourist were being harassed by Thai army when taking pics: Others who were shocked by the treatment of the men and tried to photograph the incident had their cameras snatched away by angry guards, who deleted the images. (From Phuketwan)

Also sea previous post, would you really intervene against a group of military pointing guns at you when you try to approach them and their victims?

Edited January 18, 2009 by tartempion

[Pierrot]

The current Democrat-led coalition was stitched together last month thanks to the intervention of the powerful army commander General Anupong Paochinda - he may well resist any calls for his men to be brought to justice over these allegations, as his predecessors have.

But it is also worth remembering that under the most recent constitution the most senior commander of ISOC is, in fact, the Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva.

I look forward to see these two guys in court, the two last PM were kicked out for less than that. But somehow I've the feeling that it won't happen anytime soon. It seems that since they don't need anymore their moral high ground, they have store it together with all the nice stories the yellow people fed us with when they were having their great party on our expenses.

Waa-waa-waa-waa...as if the current PM has any influence on how badly the Navy or Army treats immigrants...it has always been deplorable and it should be corrected.

But I'm sure you have made many posts in the past on how bad the treatment was of the immigrants under Thaksin and how he should be responsible for it...

of course he has......after all he was born a FREE and principaled...ENGLISHMAN........Eton and Oxford chap..you ken....

by gawd....splendid bod......right..... harrup....

Sorry mate, but I was born on the other side of the channel .

[wasabi]

I definitely do not think the illegal immigrants should be chained or hurt but I also don't think Thailand has the money to give these people enough food and water to get back where they came from. Nor to house and care for them in Thailand. If Thailand did don't you think they would give it to the people in Issaan first? I feel sorry for these people but I also don't know how much responsibility Thailand can take for them.

[Pierrot]

First page of the Sunday Post (HK) :

Hundreds dead, set adrift by Thais

The SCMP reported that the Thai army had institued a policy of hiding refugees on an island before setting them adrift in international water.

"In search of a better life, they found brutality and death"

There are also pictures of tourists playing and sunbathing near the refugees.

Tartempion asks "would you really intervene against a group of military pointing guns at you when you try to approach them and their victims?". Good question.

Edited January 18, 2009 by Pierrot

[skooldaze]

Reprehensible and disgusting. Sadly, the behavior is not surprising to those of us who have been in LOS for a while...

Even sadder is the knowledge that there will be NO accountability.

This is Thailand and life is cheap. Hooray for Thailand! Too bad they didn't make the leap from Homo Erectus to Homo Sapiens

[skooldaze]

Thailand is a poor third world country what are they supposed to do give them room and board? I don't think these refugees should be abused at all but sending them back where they came from does not seem unreasonable.

Sending them out to die without food, water, only paddles? Third world, schmird world, the question really is civilized or barbarian.

That is the way you treat people who you don't think are people. Soi dogs are treated better. There is NO excuse! None. Ever.

Oh I almost forgot. This is a buddhist country that puts a premium on life, no killing, no eating meat... oh whoops. Where am I again? .... hel_l.

Edited January 18, 2009 by skooldaze

[misterman21]

Thailand is a poor third world country what are they supposed to do give them room and board? I don't think these refugees should be abused at all but sending them back where they came from does not seem unreasonable.

Sending them out to die without food, water, only paddles? Third world, schmird world, the question really is civilized or barbarian.

That is the way you treat people who you don't think are people. Soi dogs are treated better. There is NO excuse! None. Ever.

Oh I almost forgot. This is a buddhist country that puts a premium on life, no killing, no eating meat... oh whoops. Where am I again? hel_l

Obviously these people are at such a low level of consciousness (sub-human) that they understand little of the Bhuddist mythology. Only that in the event of evil deeds a little merit making fixes things!

[Scott]

Previous refugee crisis have benefitted Thailand. Do you think the Thais or Thai gov't paid for their housing? This was paid by the UN and Western gov'ts. There were hundreds if not thousands of NGO, UN and gov't workers here to assist in education, screening, resettling etc. The minute the money isn't forthcoming, the mistreatment starts and these people end up home.

Worked with refugees here before, so I have some knowledge of their treatment.

[Journalist]

This is developing into a big story outside of Thailand.

Pick-up by the New York Times...

January 18, 2009

Thailand Is Accused of Rejecting Migrants

By SETH MYDANS BANGKOK — In the past month, the Thai authorities have detained as many as 1,000 boat people from Bangladesh and Myanmar and sent them back out to sea in boats without engines, human rights groups say. At least 300 people are reported to be missing at sea.

The migrants are members of the ethnic Rohingya minority, mostly stateless people who live in a cycle of poverty, repression, escape, capture and exploitation.

The expulsions reverse a policy in which Thailand has allowed thousands of Rohingya to land in recent years, mostly on their way to seek work in Malaysia. In many cases those migrants are turned over to human traffickers.

Thailand denies the expulsions, saying that all arrivals are processed via legal channels.

The reports coincide with separate criticism that Thailand has committed human rights abuses in combating a Muslim insurgency in the south. They recall past episodes in which the Thai military has forced out groups of refugees, sometimes to their deaths.

In one case last month, the reports say, 410 Rohingya migrants were taken out to sea on a Thai Navy vessel and forced onto an open barge with just four barrels of water and two sacks of rice.

Four people were thrown overboard with their hands and feet tied as a way to encourage the others to board the barge, according to the reports.

After drifting for two weeks, about 100 of the migrants were rescued on the Andaman Islands, which are administered by India. About 300 remain missing after trying to swim to shore, according to several reports from the news media and human rights groups.

In a second case soon afterward, 580 people were reportedly seized off the Thai coast on three overcrowded fishing boats. These were towed back out to sea after their engines were removed, said Chris Lewa, an expert on Rohingya issues who runs a private human rights group called the Arakan Project.

Two of those boats reached shore — at Aceh in Indonesia and on the Andaman Islands — and one is missing, she said.

She said a new boatload of 46 migrants arrived Friday on Patong Island, off Thailand’s southern coast, and they were seized by the Thai military, which until recently had not been involved in local immigration issues.

The expulsions were reported last week in the South China Morning Post in Hong Kong. Thai officials denied Friday that any such expulsions had occurred.

“We never push them back to the sea,” said one of the officials, Lt. Col. Tara Soranarak, an inspector for the immigration office in Ranong Province. “We have our procedure to deport back the migrants to their home country after processing them through the Thai legal system.”

Privately, Thai officials voiced concern about the Rohingya as Muslims who might join a rebellion in southern Thailand involving people who are seeking a separate Islamic state. Last week, Amnesty International issued a report condemning Thailand as “systematically engaging in torture” against the insurgency.

The reports of harsh treatment come in the context of a huge flow of refugees from neighboring countries in the past three decades that has imposed a social and economic burden on Thailand. Since the mid-1970s, Thailand has been a refuge for millions fleeing conflict and repression in Cambodia, Vietnam, Myanmar and Laos.

“Thailand is surrounded by dangerous neighbors who have generated huge refugee flows, and it has sometimes felt overwhelmed by these flows,” said Kenneth Bacon, president of the human rights group Refugees International. “Its record in handling them is mixed.”

In the most notorious episode, in 1979, 42,000 Cambodian refugees fleeing the murderous Khmer Rouge were forced back down a cliff into a minefield by the Thai military. Survivors said many of them died.

During the same period, Vietnamese boat people were victimized by Thai pirates operating without official restraint.

Although tens of thousands of refugees now live in semipermanent camps along the Thai border with Myanmar, some of them are periodically forced back against their will. Last summer Human Rights Watch protested the forcible repatriation of a group of ethnic Karen refugees who had fled military brutality in Myanmar, formerly Burma.

The Rohingya are among the most helpless of the refugees, an abused minority in Myanmar who migrated in large numbers to Bangladesh, where they live in poverty and mostly without rights as a stateless minority.

Experts on the Rohingya describe an endless cycle of abuse in which migrants are handed over to traffickers who demand money to take them to Malaysia, where many are arrested and sent back into the hands of some of the same traffickers in Thailand.

If at any stage they are unable to pay the traffickers, the immigrants say, they can be sold to work on Thai fishing trawlers as indentured laborers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/18/world/as....html?ref=world

[Scott]

So when they think no one is watching, it really isn't the LOS, I guess?

Very, very sad commentary on the military in particular and the gov't in general.

[bangkokrick]

Although i condemn the actions of the Thai navy lets not forget that the Australian government did a similar thing in the past. Not quite as severe but still?

THE AUSTRALIAN government was condemned as inhumane yesterday for refusing to allow into its territorial waters a ship with 434 asylum- seekers, inclu-ding sick people and children.

The would-be refugees, understood to be mainly from Afghanistan and Sri Lanka, had been rescued from a crippled Indonesian ferry by the Norwegian cargo ship Tampa. They include 22 women and 43 children. Last night they were 12 miles off Christmas Island, the Australian outpost 1,000 miles west of the mainland.

Wahid Supriyadi, Indonesia's foreign affairs spokesman, said: "If Australian authorities refused [entry] because they don't have proper documents, we don't see any reason to let them in. We find it hard to believe that the ferry departed from Indonesian waters. Refugees normally travel on small boats."

Karsten Klepsvik, a Norwegian foreign ministry spokesman, urged Australia and Indonesia to take responsibility for the refugees.

Australia's conservative government, led by John Howard, has adopted a hardline stance towards the swelling numbers of "Boat People" arriving on its shores, but this is the first time Australia has turned away a ship. "We simply cannot allow a situation to develop where Australia is seen ... as a country of easy destination," Mr Howard said. Food and medical supplies would be sent to the Tampa by helicopter from Christmas Island, the Prime Minister added.

He said his government had taken legal advice and "it is our view, as a matter of international law, this matter is something that must be resolved between the government of Indonesia and the government of Norway".

An increasing number of refugees from the Middle East travel overland to Indonesia and pay "people smugglers" to take them to Australia, often in unseaworthy boats.

Tampa had diverted from its course to Singapore to answer emergency calls from a sinking Indonesian vessel, the KM Palapa 1. Arne Rinnan, the Tampa's captain, said five men had stormed the bridge and ordered him to take the group to Australia, threatening to throw themselves overboard unless he agreed.

"They flatly refused to go back to Indonesia and they were threatening to jump overboard," Captain Rinnan added. "It could have been turning into a really ugly situation." He said the men told him: "We have left everything behind. The situation is very bad. We do not want to go to Singapore or Indonesia. We have nothing to lose."

Captain Rinnan told an Australian radio station he was worried about the health of two asylum-seekers, one who had suffered a suspected heart attack and the other who had a broken leg. Trod Svensen, vice-president of the Norwegian shipping company Wilh Wilhemsen, said some of the refugees had dysentery and other illnesses.

Several such boats have arrived in Australia in the past fortnight, carrying more than 1,500 asylum-seekers, mainly from Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran, most of them via Christmas Island. The Tampa boatload is the largest single group to attempt entry. One report says a second boat carrying about 500 people is still heading for the island.

The Australian government's decision was condemned by human rights groups. Margaret Piper, executive director of the Refugee Council of Australia, said: "To prevent people from seeking protection is something that is contrary to our international obligations."

Australia, whose refugee policy is among the world's harshest, has been criticised by the United Nations and Amnesty International for detaining asylum-seekers in grim Outback camps while their applications are processed.

Independent Newspapers UK Limited

Cheers, Rick

Edited January 18, 2009 by bangkokrick

[Pierrot]

Although i condemn the actions of the Thai navy lets not forget that the Australian government..

Australia, the place where having a criminal conviction is still a requirement to get an immigrant visa ?

[mogoso]

This is not the sort of press tourists need to see, although beside the point. I would have thought such "dirty work" would be carried out in away from prying eyes.

Well it's all over the interational press now.

This is as indecent as Taksin's treatment of protesters in the south.

There is no excuse.

It seems the thai army were either oblivious or so arrogant they didn't care. Very sad that a buddhist culture would allow security forces to act in such a way.

Imagine how incensed thais would be if they found out this happened to thai boat people abroad?

The new government have a chance to act on this issue. Would be interesting to see how accountable the army are to the new gov. We know thais are patriotic and often ignorant to other cultures, although I can't imagine most thais seeing this behaviour as decent or acceptable.

Curious as to the Army's actions under Taksins administration were his fault, yet the action of the Army under the new administration is the Army's fault and not the new PM's. Can no fault given to a liberal?

[Rinrada]

“Dignity and Justice for All of Us: Our Voices are Heard in Thailand”

United Nations and National Human Rights Commission of Thailand

Engage Public in Dialogue on Fundamental Rights Enshrined in the

Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Bangkok, 6thOctober 2008 – A workshop entitled “Peoples’ Rights in the Universal Declaration -

Commemorating the 60th Anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in Thailand” was held at the Amari Watergate Hotel, Bangkok.

Thailand was one of the first RESPECTED Asian Nations to sign and accept the above Declaration....BUT maybe perhaps they FORGOT.....about it and perchance need REMINDING .....

so....Just in case.........here it is in Thai.....

http://www.unhchr.ch/udhr/lang/thj.htm

and for the rest of us...English...worth remembering sometimes....innit

Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Preamble.

Whereas recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world,

Whereas disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind, and the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief and freedom from fear and want has been proclaimed as the highest aspiration of the common people,

Whereas it is essential, if man is not to be compelled to have recourse, as a last resort, to rebellion against tyranny and oppression, that human rights should be protected by the rule of law,

Whereas it is essential to promote the development of friendly relations between nations,

Whereas the peoples of the United Nations have in the Charter reaffirmed their faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person and in the equal rights of men and women and have determined to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,

Whereas Member States have pledged themselves to achieve, in cooperation with the United Nations, the promotion of universal respect for and observance of human rights and fundamental freedoms,

Whereas a common understanding of these rights and freedoms is of the greatest importance for the full realization of this pledge,

Now, therefore,

The General Assembly,

Proclaims this Universal Declaration of Human Rights as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society, keeping this Declaration constantly in mind, shall strive by teaching and education to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance, both among the peoples of Member States themselves and among the peoples of territories under their jurisdiction.

Article 1

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Article 2

Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status.

Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

Article 3

Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

Article 4

No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.

Article 5

No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

Article 6

Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.

Article 7

All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

Article 8

Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law.

Article 9

No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.

Article 10

Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.

Article 11

Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.

No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.

Article 12

No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

Article 13

Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each State.

Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

Article 14

Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.

This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

Article 15

Everyone has the right to a nationality.

No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.

Article 16

Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.

Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.

The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.

Article 17

Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.

No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.

Article 18

Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

Article 19

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

Article 20

Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.

No one may be compelled to belong to an association.

Article 21

Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.

Everyone has the right to equal access to public service in his country.

The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.

Article 22

Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.

Article 23

Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.

Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.

Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.

Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

Article 24

Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.

Article 25

Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

Article 26

Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.

Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace.

Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.

Article 27

Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.

Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.

Article 28

Everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized.

Article 29

Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible.

In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.

These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

Article 30

Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.

[samgrowth]

This is not the sort of press tourists need to see, although beside the point. I would have thought such "dirty work" would be carried out in away from prying eyes.

Well it's all over the interational press now.

This is as indecent as Taksin's treatment of protesters in the south.

There is no excuse.

It seems the thai army were either oblivious or so arrogant they didn't care. Very sad that a buddhist culture would allow security forces to act in such a way.

Imagine how incensed thais would be if they found out this happened to thai boat people abroad?

The new government have a chance to act on this issue. Would be interesting to see how accountable the army are to the new gov. We know thais are patriotic and often ignorant to other cultures, although I can't imagine most thais seeing this behaviour as decent or acceptable.

As much as wealthy countries like Thailand feel that they don't need illegal immigrants or boat people, perhaps this is a chance for foreign embassies from countries like US and Aus to point out how thai boat people were helped in their time of need, especially in the post Vietnam war era.

Do thais see this arrival as a threat or do they feel they loose face because dirt poor desperate people from neighboring countries dared to seek help. It's not like the boat people can be accussed of being terrorists is it?

A very sad event indeed.

Very sad indeed. However I believe it is NOT the order from Mark.

It must be old order to get rid of theses people by Thaksin. The same way how Thaksin kill almost 100 people is Tak Bai.

PAD and Mark are peaceful people that does not support violence. Just like the airport event. Sanook even for Kasit.

[saneroad]

Just for fun, let's imagine that some Thaksin crony had explicitly stated plans for harsher treatment of Rohingya.

Oh, wait, someone did! PM Samak in March 2008.

Andaman Island Sites Readied for Boat People

THE THAI NAVY has confirmed that several islands have already been explored in readiness for building a detention centre for Burmese Muslim boat people.

The refugees, known as Rohingya, have been coming from their home state in northwest Burma to the Andaman coast in such large numbers that Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej views the problem as a crisis of national security.

Phuketwan has been told that if the island detention centre is built, those who are held there will be fed just one meal a day and treated harshly to deter others from entering Thailand.

While the plan is still being debated at the highest levels of the national government, the Prime Minister is known to be in favor of the concept and wants to take a hard line.

Supreme Commander General Boonsrang Niampradit said that an alarming rate of Rohingya have been sneaking into Thailand.

"The graph is rising and it is worrying and we have to try to solve the problem," he said.

The islands that the Navy has examined in preparation for the go-ahead are all off Ranong and Phang Nga.

Details of the numbers of people involved and the nature of their sea journey continue to emerge.

As many as 1000 Rohingya have been detained, the latest boatload of 80 landing on Koh Kor Khao, near the Phang Nga village of Nam Khem, just last week.

The Thai Navy is concerned because, contrary to what Phuketwan was told earlier, the arrested Rohingya have so far been all men, aged 16 to 30.

Today we learned that human traffickers are said to be involved, carrying the men south from their home state of Rakhine in a large boat. The men are then transferred to smaller, less seaworthy boats.

People smugglers throughout Asia are known as ''snakeheads'' because of their disregard for the safety of the people they provide with often-unseaworthy transport.

If the influx is not dealt with harshly, Thai authorities fear thousands more Rohingya will follow in search of lowly-paid laboring jobs along the Andaman Coast.

Neighboring Bangladesh has previously accepted many of the Rohingya, who have been driven from Burma by lack of food and harsh treatment.

Others hoped to find a new home in Malaysia, a predominatly Muslim country.

But Malaysia has taken a tough stance, so many Rohingya have now turned to Thailand, where the treatment of illegal foreign workers has been more easy-going until now.

Illegally and legally, many Buddhist Burmese have come to work in Thailand for years, because the tourism construction industry has required large numbers of workers.

Some unscrupulous Thai employers encourage illegal laborers to come because they can be paid lower wages and are willing to put up with poorer living and working conditions.

But the influx of Muslims is seen as being different because of the existing separatist insurgency that is bringing death and destruction to Thailand's southernmost provinces.

PM Samak fears that if nothing is done, the Rohingya may keep coming in greater numbers.

While Buddhists and Muslims have lived in peace for a long time along the Andaman Coast, a large influx and greater competition for work could cause problems.

On the other hand, if a harsh island detention program raises the concern of human rights activists, other Muslims may grow angry in reaction.

[geriatrickid]

Very sad indeed. However I believe it is NOT the order from Mark.

It must be old order to get rid of theses people by Thaksin. The same way how Thaksin kill almost 100 people is Tak Bai.

PAD and Mark are peaceful people that does not support violence. Just like the airport event. Sanook even for Kasit.

The emoticns have an important message for you..........

Yes, it's Thaksins fault, even though he hasn't been around to be blamed for this. If you get diarhea, do you blame Thaksin as well?

When you wrote the part about PAD, I was wondering if you were imbibing... and had become because anyone spouting such a line would suggest to me he was

[sriracha john]

It is not reasonable to expect a new PM could have stopped this from happening. I doubt the Thai military phones the PM ever time they find some illegals. It is reasonable to expect a new PM to do something about it. I don't have high hopes that any action will be taken to investigate the incidents and punish the offenders if they are guilty, or change the policy so this stops happening. Sad really. What is needed is INTERNATIONAL PRESSURE.

*It seems he is. It's a helluva change from the Thaksin days... meeting with human rights advocates... unheard of during his regime*

Abhisit vows refugee cruelty answers

Claims the navy has ill-treated Rohingya boat people will be raised in talks on Monday between PM Abhisit and human rights advocates. "I will meet human rights officials to talk about everything including violations of human rights and a few current incidents which have been reported," Mr Abhisit said. He said this would include the Rohingyas. Human rights groups have accused the Thai navy of forcing Burmese Muslim boat people back into the Andaman Sea with little food and water. Survivors have told human rights groups they were abandoned in open waters with their hands bound. Director of the Research Centre for Peace Building at Mahidol University Gothom Arya, who will join the meeting today, urged the PM to take disciplinary action against anyone found to have mistreated the boat people.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/9...-cruelty-claims

Previous refugee crisis have benefitted Thailand. Do you think the Thais or Thai gov't paid for their housing? This was paid by the UN and Western gov'ts. There were hundreds if not thousands of NGO, UN and gov't workers here to assist in education, screening, resettling etc. The minute the money isn't forthcoming, the mistreatment starts and these people end up home.

Worked with refugees here before, so I have some knowledge of their treatment.

If the problem is as large as is sometimes reported, it's time to get the NGO's and UN involved again in this similar refugee situation. Thailand is ill-equipped to deal with it alone, same as earlier.

[clausewitz]

Very sad indeed. However I believe it is NOT the order from Mark.

It must be old order to get rid of theses people by Thaksin. The same way how Thaksin kill almost 100 people is Tak Bai.

PAD and Mark are peaceful people that does not support violence. Just like the airport event. Sanook even for Kasit.

I think so too. Taksin , through his black magic skills , must have known these poor refugees were coming so in 2006 put in special sealed orders to the military to be opened after a good Democratic Primeminister was properly elected.

The Democrat primeminister would never have allowed this as he would have consulted with the all compassinate PAD first.

[toybits]

My feeling about this is that there is so much happening around the world like what is happening at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, the Abu Ghraib Prison (http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=2444), phosphorus bombing in Gaza, use of cluster bombs. What happened here has been sensationalized.

[JoeThePoster]

Living in ghetto and working at a fish sauce factory in Samut Sakhon for a pittance of the minimum wage is still a lot better than being adrift in the sea with your hands tied behind your back.

[Jingthing]

My feeling about this is that there is so much happening around the world like what is happening at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, the Abu Ghraib Prison (http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=2444), phosphorus bombing in Gaza, use of cluster bombs. What happened here has been sensationalized.

Those are/were very bad too, though completely different situations. So Thailand is given a pass against international outrage against crimes against humanity because other countries are also not perfect? I don't buy it.

[saneroad]

Rohingya news may discredit nation

By: BangkokPost.com

Published: 19/01/2009 at 11:16 AM

The news about the alleged ill-treatment of Rohingya boat people by the navy could aim at discrediting Thailand, Deputy Prime Minister overseeing national security Suthep Thaugsuban said on Monday.

Mr Suthep said he assigned Defence Minister Prawit Wongsuwan to look into the news about the Rohingya cruelty claims.

According to the deputy premier, Thai officials would not mistreat the Burmese Muslim boat people because Thai officials have always been generous to illegal immigrants, adding that such news may attempt to damage the country's reputation.

He believed officials can find the truth in this case, and Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva told the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to explain it to the international community.

[Steve2UK]

Rohingya news may discredit nation

By: BangkokPost.com

Published: 19/01/2009 at 11:16 AM

The news about the alleged ill-treatment of Rohingya boat people by the navy could aim at discrediting Thailand, Deputy Prime Minister overseeing national security Suthep Thaugsuban said on Monday.

Mr Suthep said he assigned Defence Minister Prawit Wongsuwan to look into the news about the Rohingya cruelty claims.

According to the deputy premier, Thai officials would not mistreat the Burmese Muslim boat people because Thai officials have always been generous to illegal immigrants, adding that such news may attempt to damage the country's reputation.

He believed officials can find the truth in this case, and Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva told the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to explain it to the international community.

[my emphasis above]

Well, that didn't take long......... I think we'll be seeing a lot more of this "Infamy, infamy - they've all got it in for me" reaction to unfavourable reporting from now on.

More "suspect" coverage here:

http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1872426,00.html

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2009/01...uge-sabang.html

Maybe seasoned with a bit of "foreigners just don't understand" for variety - as per TOC quoting the Thai Navy chief:

"The Navy Chief denied the ill-treatment of Rohingya migrants from Burma and Bangladesh by pushing them out to sea and setting them adrift. He confirmed the innocence of the Thai military and said there is no need to set up a panel to prove the case.

The Navy Chief, Admiral Kamthorn Phumhiran, showed photographs of the arrest of Rohingya refugees to the media to prove the innocence of the Thai military in its practice against illegal migrations.

Admiral Kamthorn said the information that the Thai navy had mistreated Rohingyas from Burma and Bangladesh seeking work for asylum by pushing them out to sea and setting them adrift is not true. Moreover, there is no need to appoint a committee to investigate, due to the clear evidence.

In regards to the picture on a foreign news agency's report, which showed more than 100 Rohingyas lying face down on a beach on Koh Sai Daeng island off Ranong province, he said it might have been taken by a traveler who did not understand the army's protocol.

The Navy chief added that the illegal migrations of the Rohingyas have affected the nation's security, as they lead to social and public health problems."

[ http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/toc/ViewData...?DataID=1011708 ]

[Jingthing]

Moreover, there is no need to appoint a committee to investigate, due to the clear evidence.

Case closed!

[samgrowth]

The Navy chief added that the illegal migrations of the Rohingyas have affected the nation's security, as they lead to social and public health problems."

[ http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/toc/ViewData...?DataID=1011708 ]

To save the life of 60 million Thai woman and children, it would be better to kill a few hundreds drifters. What if these people carry deadly virus that spread like flu that wipe out all 60 million Thai woman and children. Prevention is better than cure.

Any army who loves their country will do that without a second thought.

[Jingthing]

The Navy chief added that the illegal migrations of the Rohingyas have affected the nation's security, as they lead to social and public health problems."

[ http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/toc/ViewData...?DataID=1011708 ]

To save the life of 60 million Thai woman and children, it would be better to kill a few hundreds drifters. What if these people carry deadly virus that spread like flu that wipe out all 60 million Thai woman and children. Prevention is better than cure.

Any army who loves their country will do that without a second thought.

You talk like a Nazi. How about a medical screening instead?

[samgrowth]

The Navy chief added that the illegal migrations of the Rohingyas have affected the nation's security, as they lead to social and public health problems."

[ http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/toc/ViewData...?DataID=1011708 ]

To save the life of 60 million Thai woman and children, it would be better to kill a few hundreds drifters. What if these people carry deadly virus that spread like flu that wipe out all 60 million Thai woman and children. Prevention is better than cure.

Any army who loves their country will do that without a second thought.

You talk like a Nazi. How about a medical screening instead?

Isn't it not that a few sailors from Spain almost killed the whole Tahiti islanders due to new diesease?

Also, it is not possible, with the small boats they used, to travel from their country to Thailand. They are trying to join insurgents in the restive southern region, or wanted a Patani Republic. Hence these people must not be allowed to land, AT ALL COST.