Voip Legal/not Legal?

[seanwg]

Hi,

Gfs about to head back to the LOS; from reading the posts, it appears VoIP is illegal in Thailand but lots of people are doing it..

How dangerous is it sending her back with a Cisco ATA-186 so she can connect with me directly here at home...?

Just curious

Sean

[astral]

VOIP is available from CAT and TOT, so it is hard to see how it can be illegal................

Once the data is on the line it is only data, so how will they know?

Large companies are definitely using it.

[stumonster]

I think technically it is illegal to use VOIP in thailand but for personal use there is nothing they can do about it. If you started selling the service I am sure you would be shut down.

every teleco in the world would like VOIP to be illegal.

within range of a free wireless hotspot , running pocket skype on my handheld( a very sexy dell axim x50v) and a bluetooth headset, I have a mobile phone that utilising skypeout allows me to talk to europe , north america or australasia for the very acceptable price of 2 euro cents per minute. sell your telco shares now.

[Crushdepth]

Got any recommendations on a Bluetooth headset ? I'm still can't make up my mind which Borg implant to get !

I tried Skype over the EDGE network a couple of weeks ago, worked quite well.

Edited January 1, 2005 by Crushdepth

[melus]

Yes, it's still illegal, but who's going to stop you, the VoIP police?

[Khutan]

If you use a secure SOCKS-4 or SOCKS-5 Server, no one would know what country you were in, or even what you are doing on the net.

Mind you Dr Pat may not be happy, he also would have no idea where you are posting from.

Usually it shows some useless IP Address and then not alot else

[Khutan]

I was just thinking - it would be good to get a SYMBIAN application that you can make VoIP or H323 compliant voice/data with your phone and bluetooth with GPRS / EDGE.

Then your phone is only using your telecommunications company for the internet.....

I would pay good money for that application.

[stumonster]

Got any recommendations on a Bluetooth headset ? I'm still can't make up my mind which Borg implant to get !

a jabra 258 is what I have, it is quite comfortable and cost me 130sing dollars

[Oleg_Rus]

6 years ago there were few nice Israeli guys being departed for inbould (!) VoIP. It cost 40K$ (equipment) that time and was confiscated by police.

Net2Phone been on the market here for almost 6 years, after 1998 they offered PCI cards for compression/decompression and that increased the quality of transmission greatly.

so, the answer is Voice over IP is completely legal as long as it used for private/corporate communications and not sold for third parties. They are already selling it, right ?

[Whitey]

A year and a half ago or so, a man posted on here and the ajarn forum about needing help to get out of the country. His crime was helping install voice over ip programs. This was a crime, he was arrested and let out on bail. He bailed.

A friend of mine in Ban Da Nok met a man before he crossed into no man's land and gave him his Orange Sim card and my friend related to me the story of the voice over ip. It didnt take much to connect the dots that it was the same man who posted here.

I wouldnt involve myself in anything other than private use of voice over ip.

[melus]

Here's some interesting reading from MCOT's website from September, 2004.

Illegal foreign phone calls costing nation more than Bt100 million

 

BANGKOK, Sept 24 (TNA) - Police have arrested 25 people this year operating illegal foreign telephone services, which CAT Telecom Public Company Limited said yesterday that it had cost the nation over Bt130 million.

Mr. Assachan Wongkaeow, manager of the CAT's crime suppression division, said that from January to August the CAT (formerly the Communications Authority of Thailand) had worked with the police to take legal action against 25 people operating foreign telephone services without a license, most of whom operated using Voice Over Internet Protocol (VOIP).

Describing such operations as hugely damaging to the national economy, Mr. Assachan said that  CAT was working to stamp out the problem, with rewards offered to members of the public who provided leads on illegal operators.

The CAT has set up a 24-hour telephone hotline for the public to provide information, which since its inception on 28 July has received a large volume of calls.

Operators of unlicensed foreign telephone services face prison sentences of up to 10 years, or fines of up to Bt10 million. 

The CAT is also entitled to pursue for damages through the civil courts. (TNA)--E006

They don't mention private use of VoIP being illegal, so I would guess you're alright. What I don't understand here is how could using something that saves you money be hugely damaging to the national economy?

[bangbuathong]

Microsoft steps up VoIP efforts

Microsoft is starting to make more noise with its VoIP ambitions says IDC, pointing to partnerships that the company formed with major IP-PBX vendors, such as Siemens and Alcatel, and those in development with carriers like British Telecom and MCI. The efforts are centered on SIP-based collaborative applications being developed for the Microsoft Office Live Communications Server (LCS) 2005 product line

VoIP has become a lightning rod for a new competitive dynamic between IT and telecom vendors," said Tom Valovic IDC’s program director for VoIP Infrastructure in a press release. "A battle for the enterprise desktop is looming between major IT and telecom vendors, and at the center of it are innovative types of user-defined communications and the marriage of telecom-based convergence and IT-based desktop collaboration."

source: zdnet

press release

[Oleg_Rus]

VoIP is illegal - CAT web site states it very clearly:

http://web1.cattelecom.co.th/e4419fb2a97aa....html?news_id=2

about half of international income calls are from local numbers. do I have to report it and what should I get from it ?

[Abandon]

I'm not exactly sure what you are all on about here.

You don't mean skype, msn etc .... surely.

If you have a computer you can just just use these I would imagine. And Skypeout to connect to land lines.

[camerata]

They don't mention private use of VoIP being illegal, so I would guess you're alright. What I don't understand here is how could using something that saves you money be hugely damaging to the national economy?

What they mean is that if the money is paid to a foreign operator, Thailand loses revenue. If the money is paid to CAT or TOT it stays in Thailand and boosts the economy.

[camerata]

It's illegal to provide a VoIP service in Thailand without a licence from the regulator. It isn't illegal for individuals to use such a service, and no one cares anyway. If CAT finds any company providing a VoIP service it will immediately order the company's ISP to cut its link.

I would think a smart, small-time VoIP operator could stay ahead of CAT by using ADSL and moving around from ISP to ISP.

[Oleg_Rus]

I would think a smart, small-time VoIP operator could stay ahead of CAT by using ADSL and moving around from ISP to ISP.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

there are two issues in VoIP biz - incoming calls and outgoing calls.

for incoming - need IP-to-voice device ( about 10K$) and few phone lines. Money made from international (foreign) provider.

for outgoing - need other device, billing system and all sort of headache - Calling Cards, etc. But much higher profits.

I think now most popular is "incoming calls" systems.

Moving from ISP - to ISP is not difficult, changing phone # - also. so, here's a picture.

[baht&sold]

It's illegal to provide a VoIP service in Thailand without a licence from the regulator. It isn't illegal for individuals to use such a service, and no one cares anyway. If CAT finds any company providing a VoIP service it will immediately order the company's ISP to cut its link.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fair enough. But when you factor in the hundreds (thousands?) of us using Skype and the like for personal use, on a daily basis from within Thailand on True, CSLox, etc, etc, etc, aren't we then placing the secondary providers in liability as 'abetting' VOIP useage? Or do these secondary providers have a voip license and if so, where does that place the avg end user's liability, since we're logging on to a secondary and then using Skype for example?

The reason I ask is (tongue firmly in cheek;) I've prepared a review on Skype etc and plan to print it. What may be the fallout from that I wonder (assuming CAT would even notice or care) ? - I may have to edit where I wondered out loud why every single internet caf doesn't offer the most popular voip services ala " Call home for FREE here".

[Zarkow]

Using Skype to 'call' other computers, or programs like TeamSpeak, ventrilo and so on, to talk to your mates during playing a game...or just talking - cannot possibly be illegal.

[Crossy]

Using Skype to 'call' other computers, or programs like TeamSpeak, ventrilo and so on, to talk to your mates during playing a game...or just talking - cannot possibly be illegal.

Oh yes it can, TiT after all. A government can make anything illegal if they so desire (remember the 'using the internet whilst inebriated' april fool gag, that caught a few peole out).

Wi-Fi is technically illegal here too.

Note that in the UK it is illegal to run an intercom cable between two houses, so it's not just Thailand

[camerata]

Fair enough. But when you factor in the hundreds (thousands?) of us using Skype and the like for personal use, on a daily basis from within Thailand on True, CSLox, etc, etc, etc, aren't we then placing the secondary providers in liability as 'abetting' VOIP useage? Or do these secondary providers have a voip license and if so, where does that place the avg end user's liability, since we're logging on to a secondary and then using Skype for example?

AFAIK, no ISP has permission to offer VoIP services, mainly because CAT and TOT want to keep the revenue for themselves. I'm not sure what will happen after the supposed telecoms liberalization in 2006.

In fact there is no "law" about VoIP as such, just a clause in CAT's standard ISP licence about allowing only graphic and text traffic and another clause saying ISPs cannot compete with CAT in any area of business. CAT interprets this now as meaning ISPs shouldn't offer or allow customers to offer VoIP services. Theoretically, an ISP that knew of dialup users using VoIP could be accused of "facilitating" it, but in practice CAT finds it easier to shut down the VoIP providers. An end-user of VoIP has no liability at all.

The reason I ask is (tongue firmly in cheek;) I've prepared a review on Skype etc and plan to print it. What may be the fallout from that I wonder (assuming CAT would even notice or care) ?  - I may have to edit where I wondered out loud why every single internet caf doesn't offer the most popular voip services ala " Call home for FREE here".

Well, it's obvious why CAT wouldn't allow Internet cafes to offer VoIP. In fact, I believe Internet cafes may still be technically in violation of CAT regs because they "resell" bandwidth without an ISP licence. Then again, it's still technically illegal to connect a modem to your telephone line without submitting it for inspection to TOT!

I think the danger of publicizing something like Skype is that the ICT Ministry might put all Skype's URLs on their block list. Also, if Skype uses any specific port, CAT may demand that ISPs block it.

Edited May 23, 2005 by camerata

[westie]

i dont know the case in thailand. But in england all telephone exchanges are being converted to VOIP. BT are trying to keep up with the moving market and will be soon offering VOIP them selves.

Iv just downloaded SKYPE, which works well! have a try! cheap as chips if calling abroad alot!

westie

[stumonster]

An analysis of the Skype peer to peer internet telephony protocol

[Abandon]

skype can use any port you designate.

It is very good for transferring large files such as movies etc... with friends in foreign countries. My friend uses BT in Japan and then skypes the files to me at good speed. it will resume after a redial, but cannot be paused.

[meadish_sweetball]

An analysis of the Skype peer to peer internet telephony protocol

Stumon, it has to be EDGE or faster for Skype to work in a handheld, right? Normal GPRS wouldnt hack it... or?

[stumonster]

Stumon, it has to be EDGE or faster for Skype to work in a handheld, right? Normal GPRS wouldnt hack it... or?

Crushdepth has tried it using EDGE and reports it works fine - I doubt GPRS would be quick enough.

I have access to a EDGE phone (though AIS) so I will give it a try with skypeout on my axim next time I am in the city. Not sure AIS has EDGE coverage out in nontaburi.

[Crushdepth]

I have had it working over EDGE on a PDA, it was clear but there was quite a bit of latency. You can download Skype for Pocket PC here. Works brilliantly over a decent WIFI connection.

Edited May 24, 2005 by Crushdepth

[The_Other_Mac]

Skype offers PC-to-phone (landline or mobile) services in most countries. To do this, it has to have a server physically in that country, with phone lines out to normal phone exchanges. That costs them money which they pass on to the consumer (at a profit). Presumably they make bulk deals with the telcos in most countries, since they are able to offer 0.02 euros per minute to any part of each country and I don't imagine they have a server for each phone area. In any case, they are certainly doing it with the telco's knowledge.

In Thailand (calling from a PC INTO Thailand), the rate is 0.05 euro/min to landlines and 0.07 euro/min to mobiles. Therefore, they have arranged a deal with TOT/TA (who demanded a much higher markup than most other countries). Therefore I reckon that an article pointing out the wonders of Skype isn't going to put any noses out of joint. Just don't ask awkward questions about licences...

[george]

VoIP is not legal in Thailand. It's "technically illegal" according to Thaivisa lawyers. But impossible to stop IMHO.