Fixing Thailand's Internet Infrastructure

[livinthailandos]

I know this is actual wishful thinking but if we could take out

1. corruption

2. greedy people

3. Retards working at CAT, TOT, etc

How would you go about fixing thailand's internet infrastructure, Ok so I know its better than nothing but seriously it at least needs a few improvements. My list would include

1. Changing quality of phone lines or replacing them with new ones

2. Speaking of phone lines its just so ugly to see them about especially here on samui. Cover them up

3. My most pet peeve of all that annoy's me is dealing with thailand's IIG there should be a better option then just having to rely on CAT for this

4. Although I am unaware of an answer for this, here is samui it takes me 12 hops to get out of thailand before I start on my computer's IP journey to a international location. Common seriously 12 hops.

5. Actually fix ISP DNS Server's as they are most likely insecure, insufficient to

6. Hire people who actual know what they heck they are doing and pay them a good wage ( meaning people who actually take care of maintaining phone / internet infrastructure )

thats my list ( I know I'm dreaming this will likely never happen but I can dream so what are your guys ideas )

[Plus]

I doubt Thailand can afford upgrading fixed lines - the costs are sky high and there are not enough users who are ready to pay for that.

With international gateway bottleneck it would make no difference whatsoever.

Local content is not rich enough to demand higher bandwidth.

Political situation does not enough power to a capable and effective regulator.

Basically, we are screwed.

[DaveBKK]

The viewpoint of all the ISP and telcos, there simply isn't enough of a market benefit to pour millions of baht into upgraded infrastructure.

They are actually improving things....slowly, and cost effectively. But frankly speaking, demand for international bandwidth in Thailand is quite low.

1) Most of the multi-nationals have dedicated links with dedicated chunks of international bandwidth guaranteed. No problem for there and no real market opportunity.

2) Domestic residential customers mostly use websites and webservices that are inside of Thailand. No problem there and very low market opportunity.

3) The expat population who demands the intl. bandwidth for their ebay trading, day stock trading, web design, affiliate marketing, P2P file trading etc. is so minimal and inconsequential to their bottom line, it just doesn't make fiscal sense to pour money in to upgrade fast.

4) The SME businesses that need intl. bandwidth shouldn't be relying on a 500 baht dsl connection, but should be paying for SME and other premium packages including a T1/E1 that generaly DO perform better (although not great...just better) for international bandwidth.

That being said, some of these companies are trying to improve things slowly. However given the current economic conditions that should be hitting hard here in 2009, you can expect that process to slow and budgets get trimmed.

[Japhrodisiac]

Seems to me that a (relatively) simple solution is to forego phone line based adsl and move over to Cable internet. Just about every home in Thailand has cable tv, so it seems like there should be a relatively easy switchover to this existing technology. ??

[patklang]

They can afford 500 million baht to stop undesirable web sites

[wxpwzrd]

Seems to me that a (relatively) simple solution is to forego phone line based adsl and move over to Cable internet. Just about every home in Thailand has cable tv, so it seems like there should be a relatively easy switchover to this existing technology. ??

Every home has cable tv huh? Anyway you have to remember the same genius people that placed the ADSL plants in place also will be placing the cable plants.

[monty]

Seems to me that a (relatively) simple solution is to forego phone line based adsl and move over to Cable internet. Just about every home in Thailand has cable tv, so it seems like there should be a relatively easy switchover to this existing technology. ??

Every home has cable tv huh? Anyway you have to remember the same genius people that placed the ADSL plants in place also will be placing the cable plants.

All the cable TV operators are very small local outfits.

Their systems run entirely on outdated coax cable, which is not very suitable for data transmission. At least they would have to invest in fibre optic backbones, which will be an investment very hard to recoup!

[monty]

There are some misconceptions on Thailand's internet infrastructure!

First is CAT's monopoly. It is not there anymore. If you use True, TT&T Maxnet (or tripleT in Bkk) or Csloxinfo as ISP, chances are your traffic will not go through CAT at all as they all operate their own International Internet Gateways.

There are indeed some extra hops, unique to Thailand's internet censorship.

Indeed the main problem is market demand. The majority of internet users in Thailand (Thai people, you guessed right) access content in the Thai language and hosted within Thailand. No bandwidth issues for them!

So those few Foreigners (relative speaking) create very little revenue, yet they demand the massive investments needed for international bandwidth. Simply doesn't make sense business wise.

Now one thing which would alleviate a lot of the bandwidth hassles would be to impose a maximum data amount/month, based on the package you have.

Proper amounts would have to be set. This is actually done in most Western countries.

Reason is one thing I see so often in Thailand, is people running their connection full blast 24/7, downloading junk which they'll throw away anyway save for a few things.

Putting a cap on the downloads would make people actually check out stuff before they download it, see if they need it and then actually download it...

[Locturian]

Too late to reply?.... Anyway...

Anyone who lives in Thailand knows what kind of spaghetti-wiring they do. But again, they choose what is cheapest now, not what would make most sense in the long run. It's a whole lot cheaper to drag a cable mid-air, than to dig a trench in the ground, putting in proper lines and plastic protective pipes. Also, to this, it should be added, that the expense here is higher than, let's say Europe, as the ground is moving around alot, due to massive rain. So extra reinforcement would be required, hence more expensive - Again, money...

To upgrade the intire infrastructure would not only demand a small budget increase, it would require a massive goverment foresight and ambition. Someone said that they could spend 500 million baht on blocking websites? Well - On that, I agree. 500 million baht for that is simply stupid and spending 10 million on existing software and consultants would be just as effective... But to the point: The 500 million is far from enough, and might only be enough for the initial planning of the infrastructure. No, in my humble opnion, it would require somewhere in the range of 500 billion baht to upgrade the intire internet infrastructure, but if done properly, could last the next 40 years. - How can I say this? Well... Look the cobber cables we dug in 30 years ago in Denmark.... We now get 100mbit on those... Dig in fiber optics? Well - The sky is the limit...

When they are done digging in the fiber optic cables in Thailand, they need to get a decent connection with world - And where to connect it? The only option is a seacable, as they are already using, but some big ones... And there not cheap... Again, billions...

We need some ambition from goverment level - Like they just did in Korea... But as mentioned by another poster - The demand for greater speed is missing... As long as the Thais are more interested in Sanook.com than CNN.com, we will not move forward... Well, maybe Youtube will catch more on in Thailand, but they keep blocking it

I work with the Internet for a living - And more than anyone I would LOOOOOVE a DECENT line. I would kiss a monkeys ass for a 10mbit international line But - I might as well wish for world peace...

[lannarebirth]

WiMAX

http://www.asiamedia.ucla.edu/article.asp?parentid=100921

Edited February 3, 2009 by lannarebirth

[Locturian]

WIMAX is a brilliant addition to the Internet infrastructure, and would enable people on the move to have a decent internet connection. But - Still - WIMAX is wireless based and pretty much useless for IP Phones and/or gaming. WIMAX also suffers from loss of signal during bad weather.

Still - Would love to see WIMAX around Thailand, but the setup for the companies are great, so don't expect it anywhere else than in Bangkok for the next several years...

[monty]

Anyone who lives in Thailand knows what kind of spaghetti-wiring they do. But again, they choose what is cheapest now, not what would make most sense in the long run. It's a whole lot cheaper to drag a cable mid-air, than to dig a trench in the ground, putting in proper lines and plastic protective pipes. Also, to this, it should be added, that the expense here is higher than, let's say Europe, as the ground is moving around alot, due to massive rain. So extra reinforcement would be required, hence more expensive - Again, money...

You'd be actually amazed that Thailand has a massive fiber backbone installed, reaching out to the remotest area's possible.

Only, it is not used for internet!

It's owned by the electricity company and hooks up all their transformation/distribution stations. They use it for their electricity network monitoring systems etc... Maybe they us 0.001% of its massive capacity!

Actually, my ADSL router reposrt that it would be capable to sustain over 7Mbps down link on my phoneline. Only, my ISP does not have 7Mbps packages, and my current 3 Mbps package only gives me between 50 and 70% of rated speed (internationally, local zooms away at pretty much full speed!)

So again, not really a "spaghetti wiring" problem as such, just the international demand/capacity lacks!

[davejonesbkk]

Monty - Who do you get your internet with and what kind of average download and upload speeds do you get to USA, EU etc?

[OxfordWill]

seconded monty, who would you/do you use in Bangkok major? What kind of setup do you have at home- anything special?

[monty]

I use nothing much special!

At work a 2Mbps CAT connection and at home a 3Mbps Maxnet (TT&T) connection.

Speeds vary, but never drop under 50% of rated speed, on both connections. Usually more like between 70 and 90%.

Actually, on both connections using a download accelerator does magic. They don't do anything else but split a download in sections, and then simultaniously download them, then stitching everything together...

Using a normal "save as" download at home results in speeds around the 40 to 50% mark (150 kBps, or 1400 kbps), while using a download accelerator it goes rock solid to 340 kBps, actually pretty much the limit of a 3Mbps connection!AT connection at work.

I have a Slingbox in Europe, the stream comes in at around 450 kbps, which is as fast as my upload over there is. Never halts...

So for me, it serves my needs just perfect, at an acceptable price level.

If my income would be dependent on my internet access, I would gladly pay 6000 Baht/month for a 2Mbps Biz package.

Not sure about Bkk though, diferent providers, although apparently TT&T introduced ADSL as well over there under the Triple T brand...

[OxfordWill]

I was offered, for 35 000 baht a month, a fibre optic cable dug all the way to my door.

[lvxpat]

I use nothing much special!

At work a 2Mbps CAT connection and at home a 3Mbps Maxnet (TT&T) connection.

Speeds vary, but never drop under 50% of rated speed, on both connections. Usually more like between 70 and 90%.

Actually, on both connections using a download accelerator does magic. They don't do anything else but split a download in sections, and then simultaniously download them, then stitching everything together...

Using a normal "save as" download at home results in speeds around the 40 to 50% mark (150 kBps, or 1400 kbps), while using a download accelerator it goes rock solid to 340 kBps, actually pretty much the limit of a 3Mbps connection!AT connection at work.

I have a Slingbox in Europe, the stream comes in at around 450 kbps, which is as fast as my upload over there is. Never halts...

So for me, it serves my needs just perfect, at an acceptable price level.

If my income would be dependent on my internet access, I would gladly pay 6000 Baht/month for a 2Mbps Biz package.

Not sure about Bkk though, diferent providers, although apparently TT&T introduced ADSL as well over there under the Triple T brand...

Hi Monty. Your mention of Slingbox caught my attention. I installed one last month connected back home. I'm interested in the download accelerator you mentioned. Are they hardware or software? What is the cost and availability? Sorry I'm tech challenged.

[Prasert]

Thailand's main infrastructure for data communication consists of single-mode fiber-optic aerial cables.

These black cables are way thicker than the phone lines and hang almost horizontally between the masts. Often, the ends are rolled up, as this is easier than cutting the fibers and attaching new connectors (which is a specialized job and requires microscopic precision).

TOT, which used to be a non-profit government-owned organization, was the only organization in Thailand that ran fibers across the country, paid for by government budgets. As a result, commercial companies (like CSloxinfo) were to rent capacity from TOT.

All over the world one can see the problems that rise when state-run organizations have to turn into profit-based companies. In the end it only succeeds when the old staff, unable to adapt to a profit-aimed attitude, is replaced by new staff, understanding the difference. Most TOT staff still don't care about service and quality, because they get their salary anyway (which is the typical government-employee attitude).

Once this issue has been addressed, one can start looking into technical details.

But also realize that lots of people that are complaining about internet on TV, still have no clue at all about the very basics of TCP/IP (hosts, subnet masks, gateways and dns).

[Prasert]

Reasons for running aerial cables instead of digging them in:

1. easier, faster and cheaper to install

2. Too many problems arise with landowners when digging in cable.

Drawbacks:

1. ugly

2. ugly

3. ugly

4. cables are often ripped by trucks / growing coconut trees / other mechanical influences

[Crushdepth]

How would you go about fixing thailand's internet infrastructure

Would this work?

Edit: Might need a few more shells?

Edited February 5, 2009 by Crushdepth

[SoMeOnEnUlL]

Actually, my ADSL router reposrt that it would be capable to sustain over 7Mbps down link on my phoneline. Only, my ISP does not have 7Mbps packages, and my current 3 Mbps package only gives me between 50 and 70% of rated speed (internationally, local zooms away at pretty much full speed!)

So again, not really a "spaghetti wiring" problem as such, just the international demand/capacity lacks!

You must be very luck to get a phone line capable to sustain 7Mbps down link. I don't know where you live, though. I live in downtown Bangkok, near a famous place called Victory Monument, and my phone line is not capable of supporting 2Mbps package.

[tjo o tjim]

The main problem is the IAX and not the local distribution. Without fixing the IAX, local distribution upgrades don't make any sense. Local solutions focused on local needs in Thailand seem to work better than a centralized effort where too many hands get into the pie. Witness Prassert's TurtleSpot on that.

Logically, you create solid hubs and build from them; you don't wire up a whole country without the demand.

[Pattaya46]

... Well, maybe Youtube will catch more on in Thailand, but they keep blocking it ...

It was months ago, and only a few weeks, because of a video about the King.

Nowadays YouTube works fine in Thailand.

[monty]

Actually, my ADSL router reposrt that it would be capable to sustain over 7Mbps down link on my phoneline. Only, my ISP does not have 7Mbps packages, and my current 3 Mbps package only gives me between 50 and 70% of rated speed (internationally, local zooms away at pretty much full speed!)

So again, not really a "spaghetti wiring" problem as such, just the international demand/capacity lacks!

You must be very luck to get a phone line capable to sustain 7Mbps down link. I don't know where you live, though. I live in downtown Bangkok, near a famous place called Victory Monument, and my phone line is not capable of supporting 2Mbps package.

Courtesy of TT&T actually.

They are putting up those Micro Dslam's all over town, so in most cases you're never further away then 1 km from them. If that 1km cable is in reasonable condition, pretty good speeds should be possible!

TT&T is actually installing hem all over Bkk as well now, over there they sell under the TripleT brand!

[OxfordWill]

Well Im about 2 days away from ordering loxinfo 5mb on a dedicated line in an aprtment which is 617 m from the nearest exchange, in an area reported by true and loxinfo to be of "normal" usage.

I am hoping my decision not to go with True as they are generally more popular, will make a positive difference.

If you see me making a mistake dont hesitate to let me know..I can still cancel. My area is rama 9.

Edited February 7, 2009 by OxfordWill

[SoMeOnEnUlL]

Well Im about 2 days away from ordering loxinfo 5mb on a dedicated line in an aprtment which is 617 m from the nearest exchange, in an area reported by true and loxinfo to be of "normal" usage.

I am hoping my decision not to go with True as they are generally more popular, will make a positive difference.

If you see me making a mistake dont hesitate to let me know..I can still cancel. My area is rama 9.

^^ 5Mbps must be pretty good. I guess you installed the line already. Care to share us the speedtest results?

Edited February 9, 2009 by SoMeOnEnUlL

[OxfordWill]

I will do! I am going for the home 5mb line, there is also a SME line which is about 3 times as expensive per package, with reportedly "faster international bandwidth" which smells like total BS to me. The only difference I think is a dedicated IP.

Ill let you know after the 18th, which is when my line is activated.

[OxfordWill]

Well the day arrived and nothing happened, so I called Lox to ask, they said sorry the line is owned by true, and has previously had a true net package on it so it would have to change hands. The condo owner wont put it in my name or let me change from true (despite previously telling me they would do exactly this) so I called true. True said 4 days no problem, just make sure I sent them my work permit...!

SO, Im getting it done in a thai friends' name. The saga will continue.

[SoMeOnEnUlL]

Haha.. Good luck getting the line, mate!

[prallo]

About the Download Accelerators: Google for it. There are many out there and free. It is software.

I use Orbit Download Manager. Free Download Manager is also a good one.

With my 3 Mbit connection I almost always download with fullspeed.