Financial Crisis

[mijan24]

I read these rants and wonder where you were lets say 2 years ago - I did not notice any posters on TV weighing in with what are these guys doing (bankers) paying me such high interest - can they really afford to do this are they qualified??That baht exchange rate is so high I wonder if they the (bankers) know what they are doing?I am but a babe in this world of finance - when I look atr some house prices and read double digit Millions Crikeys am on the wrong planet?? Yet with that in mind I (sorry we) own a very modest house in Nonthaburi, own my vehicles both are dated of course 4/38 years respectively, own both motorcycles both are dated also - -NO oustanding debts except $32 on my mastercard and my few dollars safely locked away at a meagre 3.3% which will not bear fruit until Jul09 (next FY) under tax limit and ready to be reloicated again. With all this in mind i sleep well and friends tell me I do not look a day older than my 63 years of age - hair not gone and only slightly greying at the sides.

Do not rip the innards out of the bankers firstly look at onesself - Good old saying Nothing in Life is Free!! and The other Life wasn't meant to be easy.

I think you have been in Isaan for too long mate

There is a bit of a difference to comparing paying high interest and forex exchange rates

to receiving a multi million payout after you have failed at your job ?

it is like heads I win tails you lose

midas you may be correct, then again - these multi million payouts have been around for several years now and my point is Many of the Now Complainers were happy to accept it as the NORM as long as they were receiving their rakeoff, High Interest, Endless Credit, high exchange rates the list goes on.

Now the multi billion dollar payout takers are scoundrels (I agree that they are but I have a different perspective of life) and those not Receiving their rakeoffs are baying for their blood This is what I have a problem with.

[SoCal]

What is happening in California is not scary, but refreshing.

Here you have a state driven by mass consumption/spending, experiencing a huge deficit due to decreases in tax collection due to the slowing economy, trying to reconcile its books carrying on one of the oldest and fundamental economic arguments of all time.

The Dems answer is to raise taxes, and increase spending, in what is already viewed as the worst state in the US to conduct business. Further raising the income tax to the highest rate amongst all states.

The single stop gap, Shwarzenegger, trying to slash spending, and encourage business to return to California. Unfortunately, he is fighting what will probably be a losing battle, with the best solution being a compromise from both sides.

California will be allright. They go through this every recession. It wouldn't be so news worthy, if it were not for the battle taking place.

Frankly, I wish the Federal government had such heated battles before deciding to mortgage our present on future generations.

[flying]

midas you may be correct, then again - these multi million payouts have been around for several years now and my point is Many of the Now Complainers were happy to accept it as the NORM as long as they were receiving their rakeoff, High Interest, Endless Credit, high exchange rates the list goes on.

Now the multi billion dollar payout takers are scoundrels (I agree that they are but I have a different perspective of life) and those not Receiving their rakeoffs are baying for their blood This is what I have a problem with.

Hello

Sorry to disagree but here is historical interest rates.

I do not see it being very high at all when you consider what a leverage they used on any deposits.

Lets see 2000 on never up above 5% Yet every dollar you deposit they have 9 more at their disposal?

Who made out on that one?

Now lets look at historical mortgage rates....hmmm again they did all right for them selves eh?

Ok How about credit cards?

Ah never mind you know its not good

Im like you I do not carry debt & yes many have & I am not saying they are not wrong in many ways. But there is no way in He!! they are in anyway capable of this mess. Delinquent credit card holders or folks who should not have been GIVEN a mortgage cannot make a pile of crap this size.

This is a redistibution of wealth like the world has never seen. If they get away with their lives I for one will be very disappointed.

[lannarebirth]

^^^ Things change

[samuibeachcomber]

Dude, NuLabour are in this for the long haul, they've supped at the trough now for over ten years, they like what they sup and they ain't going down without a fight, mark my words.

The Brown Man will hang on to the bitter end in the hope of the recession easing and then taking the credit for it. Then the Tories will have a battle on their hands.

Give me tory sleaze any day over the Stasi-like Labour machinations and wrecking balls that have been unleashed on the economy!

going back 20 or 30 years the only sleeze you could pin on a tory was cross dressing,sado masochism etc,how i loved those days,but i fear they will not return,the pigs swill in the trough has become too much for even the tories to resist,although i suspect the cross dressing will continue as wll.

[flying]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INAGMSARPYw&eurl

If true, who was asking for his/her USD?

Yes who was drawing down 550 billion in that short time? An Hour or two???

Edited February 10, 2009 by flying

[midas]

^^^ Things change

Lana we can always rely on you for the unconventional

Ok so what circumstances do you attribute to the 2 sudden upward spikes in 2008 ?

[SoCal]

People are scared as <deleted> all that they will lose their jobs, so they are spending less and saving more. Not really rocket science.

[lannarebirth]

^^^ Things change

Lana we can always rely on you for the unconventional

Ok so what circumstances do you attribute to the 2 sudden upward spikes in 2008 ?

Well, there are a few things that point to a greater savings rate into the foreseeable future.

1) Deflation

Why pay more now for something you believe may cost less in the future?

2) Mortgage Resets

Many millions of households will be looking at mortgage resets next year. Now is the time to get persoanl balance sheets in order to avil themselves of low cost lending funds. Otherwise many stand to lose their homes

3) Dearth of alternative appreciating asset classes

4) Fear

Many people beginning to appreciate the fact that "they're on their own" and they will need to find their ow solutions to their future finacial well being, particularly in retirement.

5)

Maybe they're saving up to buy some Gold coins.

Edited February 10, 2009 by lannarebirth

[Naam]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INAGMSARPYw&eurl

If true, who was asking for his/her USD?

Yes who was drawing down 550 billion in that short time? An Hour or two???

it was was probably Bingo the Bongo who used that money to short the SET

[henryalleman]

I think you have been in Isaan for too long mate

There is a bit of a difference to comparing paying high interest and forex exchange rates

to receiving a multi million payout after you have failed at your job ?

it is like heads I win tails you lose

Thanks for telling us that Nonthaburi is in Isan, till now I was convinced that its was greater Bangkok.

[lannarebirth]

dam_n the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

In the end, Mr. Geithner largely prevailed in opposing tougher conditions on financial institutions that were sought by presidential aides, including David Axelrod, a senior adviser to the president, according to administration and Congressional officials.

Mr. Geithner, who will announce the broad outlines of the plan on Tuesday, successfully fought against more severe limits on executive pay for companies receiving government aid.

He resisted those who wanted to dictate how banks would spend their rescue money. And he prevailed over top administration aides who wanted to replace bank executives and wipe out shareholders at institutions receiving aid.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/10/business...=rss&src=ig

[12DrinkMore]

The Brothers are getting tooled up

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/...0,2201778.story

Gun dealers experiencing shortages of bullets

[midas]

The Brothers are getting tooled up

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/...0,2201778.story

Gun dealers experiencing shortages of bullets

I wonder what they will use in the UK where the anger seems just as deep

and the prospect of a serious crime wave is just as bad ?

[flying]

The Brothers are getting tooled up

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/...0,2201778.story

Gun dealers experiencing shortages of bullets

I said so way back in October. Many thought it was just the election of a possible anti gun prez & cabinet like Clintons time. But I was pretty sure it felt quite different. For gods sake we have hippies buying 357 mags now

As for bullets I can hardly believe the prices folks are paying. But then again they are probably using charge cards

[midas]

I said so way back in October. Many thought it was just the election of a possible anti gun prez & cabinet like Clintons time. But I was pretty sure it felt quite different. For gods sake we have hippies buying 357 mags now

As for bullets I can hardly believe the prices folks are paying. But then again they are probably using charge cards

So Flying we will not hold you to your opinion on this but do you see these weapons being

amassed for something other than personal security in the home as a defense against home intrusion

or do you honestly see the possibility down the track of a real uprising and if so

approximately when do you think we will see the beginning of a breakdown?

[samuibeachcomber]

For any who are interested go to daily mail UK online(sorry i do not know how to attach onto topic).There's an interesting comment by ed Balls a minister in the labour govt. in the UK about the coming depression being worse than the 1930's,and an admission like this from a govt. minister is quite something.another article is from a whistleblower at HBOS who gave evidence to a parliamentary commitee(so free from prosecution)Its in todays's issue.

[flying]

So Flying we will not hold you to your opinion on this but do you see these weapons being

amassed for something other than personal security in the home as a defense against home intrusion

or do you honestly see the possibility down the track of a real uprising and if so

approximately when do you think we will see the beginning of a breakdown?

Personally I have always had weapons as I enjoy the sport.

As for the others I can only say for many years folks I know who are shall we say collectors? Have always said the main reason our forefathers scribed the 2nd amendment was so that we the people could beat the government in a fair fight if need be.

I understand what they are saying & surely hope it never comes to that. It would be very sad to see folks basically have to turn their guns on their relatives because that is what it would be. I actually think if it really came to military enforcement here at home many soldiers would go AWOL because of that. Of course the govt would send troops to areas that they are not from for enforcement or peace keeping. And in high pop cities maybe that would be tolerated. But if they ever started a door to door like after Katrina to confiscate arms? I think they would be collecting them one bullet at a time. So for that reason alone I think they will not go martial on us.

So I think the majority of the arms build up here at home is in fact fear for the most part. Fear of intrusion, theft & possible lawlessness. As more & more become unemployed there will be increased theft surely. Again the dense pop cities will be a scary place IMHO

It is not like Thailand where they have food even if they have no work. Here in the USA no work means something else. Police departments are sorely understaffed for any real problems. So I think folks feel the need to arm themselves & rightfully so. They can take responsibility for themselves till help arrives if need be.

The rest is in fact preparing for what they see as a possible breakdown in general.

As for time of breakdown if it occurs? Who knows? I think most feel there is still a fair amount of time & things will be in full swing 2011-2012 but as we know that is just a guess. If the financials really start to break down or if banks take a holiday I think things could go pretty quick & tempers will flare.

I am hopeful but prepare a bit non the less. I know some will call it doom & gloom But really I know all the world is a stage & I am just watching.

But this is what I am seeing & reading here. So yes it gets a reaction out of me.

[midas]

For any who are interested go to daily mail UK online(sorry i do not know how to attach onto topic).There's an interesting comment by ed Balls a minister in the labour govt. in the UK about the coming depression being worse than the 1930's,and an admission like this from a govt. minister is quite something.another article is from a whistleblower at HBOS who gave evidence to a parliamentary commitee(so free from prosecution)Its in todays's issue.

Yes indeed samui...........this is part of what was in the

UK Independent. Tuesday, 10 February 2009 :-

Ed Balls, the PM's closest ally, warns that downturn is ferocious and says impact will last 15 years

Britain is facing its worst financial crisis for more than a century, surpassing even the Great Depression

of the 1930s, one of Gordon Brown's most senior ministers and confidants has admitted.

In an extraordinary admission about the severity of the economic downturn, Ed Balls even predicted

that its effects would still be felt 15 years from now.

He warned that events worldwide were moving at a "speed, pace and ferocity which none of us have

seen before" and banks were losing cash on a "scale that nobody believed possible".

[samuibeachcomber]

what to do when the money runs out(or wiped out)no money and everyone's in shit street,with no power to do anything about it.You would like to think that thailand would be well placed to survive,you know it has great food production,and because there's no real welfare structure,there's more reliance placed on "family" to help each other get by.BUT........we are not thinking straight because this will become all about control(govt. control)of populations world wide.

And what about farang in thailand?I could quite easily see the day of forced deportation back to country of origin,for no other reason than that they can,our money in thailand will mean nothing,because they wont care about farang/thai family disruption.IMO things are going to go apesh-t very quickly,so enjoy everyday you can.

[flying]

He warned that events worldwide were moving at a "speed, pace and ferocity which none of us have

seen before" and banks were losing cash on a "scale that nobody believed possible".

Many months ago I asked in one of these threads if folks felt safe leaving all of their money in a bank. Someone jumped in & said that was insane & had everyone lost all perspective.

I wonder how many folks have perhaps moved some cash now?

[VegasVic]

So Flying we will not hold you to your opinion on this but do you see these weapons being

amassed for something other than personal security in the home as a defense against home intrusion

or do you honestly see the possibility down the track of a real uprising and if so

approximately when do you think we will see the beginning of a breakdown?

Personally I have always had weapons as I enjoy the sport.

As for the others I can only say for many years folks I know who are shall we say collectors? Have always said the main reason our forefathers scribed the 2nd amendment was so that we the people could beat the government in a fair fight if need be.

I understand what they are saying & surely hope it never comes to that. It would be very sad to see folks basically have to turn their guns on their relatives because that is what it would be. I actually think if it really came to military enforcement here at home many soldiers would go AWOL because of that. Of course the govt would send troops to areas that they are not from for enforcement or peace keeping. And in high pop cities maybe that would be tolerated. But if they ever started a door to door like after Katrina to confiscate arms? I think they would be collecting them one bullet at a time. So for that reason alone I think they will not go martial on us.

So I think the majority of the arms build up here at home is in fact fear for the most part. Fear of intrusion, theft & possible lawlessness. As more & more become unemployed there will be increased theft surely. Again the dense pop cities will be a scary place IMHO

It is not like Thailand where they have food even if they have no work. Here in the USA no work means something else. Police departments are sorely understaffed for any real problems. So I think folks feel the need to arm themselves & rightfully so. They can take responsibility for themselves till help arrives if need be.

The rest is in fact preparing for what they see as a possible breakdown in general.

As for time of breakdown if it occurs? Who knows? I think most feel there is still a fair amount of time & things will be in full swing 2011-2012 but as we know that is just a guess. If the financials really start to break down or if banks take a holiday I think things could go pretty quick & tempers will flare.

I am hopeful but prepare a bit non the less. I know some will call it doom & gloom But really I know all the world is a stage & I am just watching.

But this is what I am seeing & reading here. So yes it gets a reaction out of me.

"Here in the U.S. no work means something else" Yes flying here in the states being laid off means that you are entitled to 26 weeks of unemployment payments, wait now make that 46 weeks of payments becuase of the 20 week federal extension Then of course if you go through 46 weeks of unemployment payments and still can't find work the nanny state overseen by the magic negro and nancy peousy will give you food stamps and welfare, and if thats not enough then the tens of thousands of missions that feed the poor across the U.S. will step up to the plate and feed you. Flying your paranoid goldbug tendancies have taken you down a very dark and pathetic path, hopefully you will regain your grasp on reality when gold crashes and get on with your life

[midas]

He warned that events worldwide were moving at a "speed, pace and ferocity which none of us have

seen before" and banks were losing cash on a "scale that nobody believed possible".

Many months ago I asked in one of these threads if folks felt safe leaving all of their money in a bank. Someone jumped in & said that was insane & had everyone lost all perspective.

I wonder how many folks have perhaps moved some cash now?

44% of people in the UK no longer feel comfortable leaving their money in a bank

[samuibeachcomber]

maybe for now VV,but what happens if these services are withdrawn,or whittled away through lack of funds.Do you not think the govt. are not making contingency plans for such a scenario...............homeland security,increase in citizens joining the army,building camps attached to army and airforce bases on the pretext of housing incase of natural disasters...................its not difficult imo to see where this is leading too.

[flying]

Flying your paranoid goldbug tendancies have taken you down a very dark and pathetic path, hopefully you will regain your grasp on reality when gold crashes and get on with your life

hahahah

Yes Actually I leave next Wednesday. I will be doing some globe trotting for two months. So if you dont hear much from me do not worry I am fine.

Figured I would do it now while it is still nice out & about. Been promising the wife for 14 months now so we are all booked & packed.

Hopefully you will not need that vaulted unemployment you speak of Vic.

I know folks on it now. You know it has a max per week yes? Bit over $500 here. You know that max times the 4 weeks in a month does not make even half of a mortgage payment for most yes? No? Where do you live?

As for food stamps.......Your showing your age there...It is a debit card now & yes many will use them. Sorry to tell you unless you have minor children you will not get welfare. You are only getting govt cheese & maybe bad health care NO CASH for you! Sorry

Gold may crash & thrash who knows. But I know you speak of paper gold so you could be right.

[midas]

"Here in the U.S. no work means something else" Yes flying here in the states being laid off means that you are entitled to 26 weeks of unemployment payments, wait now make that 46 weeks of payments becuase of the 20 week federal extension Then of course if you go through 46 weeks of unemployment payments and still can't find work the nanny state overseen by the magic negro and nancy peousy will give you food stamps and welfare, and if thats not enough then the tens of thousands of missions that feed the poor across the U.S. will step up to the plate and feed you. Flying your paranoid goldbug tendancies have taken you down a very dark and pathetic path, hopefully you will regain your grasp on reality when gold crashes and get on with your life

you are entitled to 26 weeks of unemployment payments - and please tell me Vegas Vic what happens when

countries like China are no longer interested in funding your country? No Vegas Vic - Flying is one of the few

people on this thread worth listening to - because he never stops asking.

Do you ever ask questions Vegas Vic ? Do you have an open mind or do you THINK you know everything?

[flying]

44% of people in the UK no longer feel comfortable leaving their money in a bank

Oh Boy

They better get on it ( the banks & governments I mean ) Because as we have seen this house of cards is based on faith.

Most dont know or even care to know the inner workings. But they ( banks & governments ) have to look like they at least know what their doing. If not then as we are seeing now folks start to lose faith & get anxious....uncomfortable with the whole thing. Then they start to pull out of the system. Then the system fails.

It is a self fulfilling prophecy.

Edited February 11, 2009 by flying

[midas]

44% of people in the UK no longer feel comfortable leaving their money in a bank

Oh Boy

They better get on it ( the banks & governments I mean ) Because as we have seen this house of cards is based on faith.

Most dont know or even care to know the inner workings. But they ( banks & governments ) have to look like they at least know what their doing. If not then as we are seeing now folks start to lose faith & get anxious....uncomfortable with the whole thing. Then they start to pull out of the system. Then the system fails.

It is a self fulfilling prophecy.

This is from The Times of London

Savers vault from the banks to a safe place at home

Steve Bird

Sales of household safes have surged as wealthy savers concerned about the health of banks opt to keep cash at home.

Leading safe manufacturers contacted by The Times said that they had seen a big increase in demand. Many predicted a meltdown in the banking sector.

One company said that sales had increased by a quarter, while another said that its staff had received calls from panicking investors who now wanted to keep their savings locked away at home.

Russ Reader, the managing director of Leigh Safes, which makes, fits and sells safes, said: “It’s simple: if there’s a lack of confidence in banks, people buy and fit European and insurance-approved safes and put the contents on their home insurance.

“We’ve seen a 25 per cent increase in sales and inquiries over the last four weeks, in particular for higher-grade safes that insurance companies approve for larger sums. It all started with the troubles at Northern Rock and Bradford & Bingley.”

Gunnebo, which owns the Chubb-safes brand, one of the biggest safe manufacturers, has seen a 15 per cent increase in sales.

Anthony Neary, a partner at Safe Shop, an internet-based sales company, said: “We’ve had three recent calls from people saying that they want to take their cash savings out of the bank and put it into a safe. One was withdrawing £50,000, another £10,000 and the other £4,000. I was staggered. But the last week has seen a sea change in public opinion. There’s no question that people are thinking about it.

“In a month or two I expect a dramatic increase in the sales of residential-user safes.”

Robert Phillips, the managing director of Safe Options, said he had had calls from people claiming to have lost confidence in the banking system and wanting underfloor safes fitted.

The increase in sales of domestic safes is also thought to be linked, in part, to those who had heeded warnings of a potential collapse in the housing market and either sold buy-to-let properties or their own homes and moved into rented accommodation to live off the interest from the wealth they had amassed during the property boom.

Safes are built to comply with a “Eurograde” requirement – the higher the grade, the larger the sum an insurance company will insure cash stored within it.

A spokeswoman for Which?, the consumer organisation, said: “As for where is safest for your money, the first £50,000 of your savings with a financial institution is covered by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme. Which? would advise anyone wanting to protect larger sums of money to spread their savings across a number of banks and financial institutions, so that there is no more than £50,000 in each one.”

Insurance companies are also likely to advise wealthy people who have lost faith in the banking system to store money in safe deposit boxes rather than home safes.

[samuibeachcomber]

44% of people in the UK no longer feel comfortable leaving their money in a bank

Oh Boy

They better get on it ( the banks & governments I mean ) Because as we have seen this house of cards is based on faith.

Most dont know or even care to know the inner workings. But they ( banks & governments ) have to look like they at least know what their doing. If not then as we are seeing now folks start to lose faith & get anxious....uncomfortable with the whole thing. Then they start to pull out of the system. Then the system fails.

It is a self fulfilling prophecy.

This is from The Times of London

Savers vault from the banks to a safe place at home

Steve Bird

Sales of household safes have surged as wealthy savers concerned about the health of banks opt to keep cash at home.

Leading safe manufacturers contacted by The Times said that they had seen a big increase in demand. Many predicted a meltdown in the banking sector.

One company said that sales had increased by a quarter, while another said that its staff had received calls from panicking investors who now wanted to keep their savings locked away at home.

Russ Reader, the managing director of Leigh Safes, which makes, fits and sells safes, said: "It's simple: if there's a lack of confidence in banks, people buy and fit European and insurance-approved safes and put the contents on their home insurance.

"We've seen a 25 per cent increase in sales and inquiries over the last four weeks, in particular for higher-grade safes that insurance companies approve for larger sums. It all started with the troubles at Northern Rock and Bradford & Bingley."

Gunnebo, which owns the Chubb-safes brand, one of the biggest safe manufacturers, has seen a 15 per cent increase in sales.

Anthony Neary, a partner at Safe Shop, an internet-based sales company, said: "We've had three recent calls from people saying that they want to take their cash savings out of the bank and put it into a safe. One was withdrawing £50,000, another £10,000 and the other £4,000. I was staggered. But the last week has seen a sea change in public opinion. There's no question that people are thinking about it.

"In a month or two I expect a dramatic increase in the sales of residential-user safes."

Robert Phillips, the managing director of Safe Options, said he had had calls from people claiming to have lost confidence in the banking system and wanting underfloor safes fitted.

The increase in sales of domestic safes is also thought to be linked, in part, to those who had heeded warnings of a potential collapse in the housing market and either sold buy-to-let properties or their own homes and moved into rented accommodation to live off the interest from the wealth they had amassed during the property boom.

Safes are built to comply with a "Eurograde" requirement – the higher the grade, the larger the sum an insurance company will insure cash stored within it.

A spokeswoman for Which?, the consumer organisation, said: "As for where is safest for your money, the first £50,000 of your savings with a financial institution is covered by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme. Which? would advise anyone wanting to protect larger sums of money to spread their savings across a number of banks and financial institutions, so that there is no more than £50,000 in each one."

Insurance companies are also likely to advise wealthy people who have lost faith in the banking system to store money in safe deposit boxes rather than home safes.

might as well,there's bugger all interest to be had,but safes at home can be robbed too.

[midas]

might as well,there's bugger all interest to be had,but safes at home can be robbed too.

When I was staying up in Isaan near the end of the rice harvest before Christmas I was thinking

how attractive or otherwise it would be have an outbuilding full of bags of rice as an alternative

" investment " -it seems like a more attractive asset to me than bars of gold which you can't eat.

But can you believe at that time almost every day there stories of burglars that had wandered around

the villages in the middle of the night stealing bags of rice. I never thought they would rob

from the poor farmers.