Financial Crisis

[midas]

Easy, this forum topic.

When the recovery gets under way, there will be those who will deny it and claim that the world will end, and will keep posting links in here to youtube etc until such time passes as another downturn gets under way at some distant point in the future.

Yes and there are others who deny that there is anything at all wrong in the world right now just so they can keep flogging real real estate to suckers

Edited November 13, 2009 by midas

[quiksilva]

I knew I could count on you to bite Midas lol

I would love to know who is denying that there is anything wrong right now, but am sure you'd love that to be me

[12DrinkMore]

Yeah I see some negative comments made, maybe those people do not understand that the food she gets for free is already paid for or will be reimbursed I guess. So basically these coupons have a similar function as the fiat money we are using now and a while ago I run into this article which tells about a barter system now getting a bit more popular in Holland but is something banks apparantly do not like. Have a read:

http://www.henrymakow.com/dutch_barter_sys...angers_ban.html

There is a system that has been running successfully in Switzerland for over seventy years.

http://www.wir.ch/index.cfm?DC86BF333C1811...amp;o_lang_id=1

That site is in German, French and Italian.

Here are a couple of articles.

http://beyondmoney.net/research-and-review...onal-realities/

http://www.reinventingmoney.com/documents/wir.html

Nevertheless most transactions are done in an open “legitimate” way and by 2006 when I interviewed one of the bank’s officers, circulation had grown to 1.6 billion. A wide range of businesses participate including and especially all of the trades. I attended one of the WIR trade shows in 2007 in Zurich. It took four floors of a huge exhibit building — also used for rock concerts. Folks that I interviewed said they are making contacts at the trade fair that keep their sales team busy the rest of the year.

In this way WIR is widely credited with keeping Swiss economy strong.

[jazzbo]

As from http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment...ot-America.html

Japan is drifting helplessly towards a dramatic fiscal crisis. For 20 years the world's second-largest economy has been able to borrow cheaply from a captive bond market,

feeding its addiction to Keynesian deficit spending

– and allowing it to push public debt beyond the point of no return.

Now there's are real objective piece of reporting from the Torries about, what is still, the world's second largest economy.

[12DrinkMore]

Can somebody explain this?

White House Aims to Cut Deficit With TARP Cash

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125799009185344567.html

Hang on here, now I thought that the TARP stuff was non-existing money that was conjured into existence to remove "overpriced liabilities" from the banks' balance sheets and shove them up the tax payers ever expanding rectum. Now it seems that this has turned into a real budget which can be spent to pay down the government created debt.

Amazing, this QE business.

So why don't they just create another few trillion and pay off all the debt? Surely the logical step.

[jazzbo]

Can somebody explain this? Accrual accounting reversal.

[jazzbo]

So why don't they just create another few trillion and pay off all the debt? To do that would probably require Kuhn F.'s "Insane Printing Press"... Kinda reminds of of Mickey Mouse in Fantasia's The Sorcerer's Apprentice:

[lannarebirth]

Can somebody explain this?

White House Aims to Cut Deficit With TARP Cash

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125799009185344567.html

Hang on here, now I thought that the TARP stuff was non-existing money that was conjured into existence to remove "overpriced liabilities" from the banks' balance sheets and shove them up the tax payers ever expanding rectum. Now it seems that this has turned into a real budget which can be spent to pay down the government created debt.

Amazing, this QE business.

So why don't they just create another few trillion and pay off all the debt? Surely the logical step.

It's like when you get a new credit card that you use for a cash advance to pay off your old credit card debt. Makes perfect sense to a certain kind of person.

[jazzbo]

It's like when you get a new credit card...

Well, if you GOT that new credit card, regardless of for what purposes you choose to use it, somebody at the issuing company decided that you were creditworthy or else they wouldn't have given it to you in the first place. They may turn out to be dead wrong in their creditworthy analysis, but that was their decision.

I am sure if Dr. Bernanke (PhD, MIT) and Dr. Krugman (PhD, MIT, Nobel Prize in Economics) would just tune into this Forum they would have all their problems solved and would not have to resort to non-existing money hocus-pocus.

[Naam]

I am sure if Dr. Bernanke (PhD, MIT) and Dr. Krugman (PhD, MIT, Nobel Prize in Economics) would just tune into this Forum they would have all their problems solved and would not have to resort to non-existing money hocus-pocus.

[midas]

It's like when you get a new credit card...

Well, if you GOT that new credit card, regardless of for what purposes you choose to use it, somebody at the issuing company decided that you were creditworthy or else they wouldn't have given it to you in the first place. They may turn out to be dead wrong in their creditworthy analysis, but that was their decision.

I am sure if Dr. Bernanke (PhD, MIT) and Dr. Krugman (PhD, MIT, Nobel Prize in Economics) would just tune into this Forum they would have all their problems solved and would not have to resort to non-existing money hocus-pocus.

Oh you mean like about five million illegal aliens who managed to obtain fraudulent home mortgages

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2100080/posts

[midas]

As from http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment...ot-America.html

Japan is drifting helplessly towards a dramatic fiscal crisis. For 20 years the world's second-largest economy has been able to borrow cheaply from a captive bond market,

feeding its addiction to Keynesian deficit spending

– and allowing it to push public debt beyond the point of no return.

Now there's are real objective piece of reporting from the Torries about, what is still, the world's second largest economy.

Maybe you prefer to see it in pictorial format

" Now, for those of you who believe that the government's "pretend and extend" policy has any chance in hel_l of working, or better yet, that we are not following in the footsteps of Japan, let's take a pictorial trip through recent history "

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/bad-cre-r...king-prominence

[Jake1]

It's like when you get a new credit card...

Well, if you GOT that new credit card, regardless of for what purposes you choose to use it, somebody at the issuing company decided that you were creditworthy or else they wouldn't have given it to you in the first place. They may turn out to be dead wrong in their creditworthy analysis, but that was their decision.

Kinda like if you were to rig Visa's headquarters with explosives and threaten to blow the building unless you were issued a new credit card? Would this new card prove my credit worthiness?

[AlexLah]

The conspiracy I was pointing at a bit more than a year ago has finally seen the light of day (sort of). Remember I was hammering about oil?

Read the following: http://seekingalpha.com/article/172797-the...icle_sb_popular

As I no longer work for"The Company" and now that the story is in public domain I can confirm this story is 99% true.

Taking cover........

[Abrak]

It's like when you get a new credit card...

Well, if you GOT that new credit card, regardless of for what purposes you choose to use it, somebody at the issuing company decided that you were creditworthy or else they wouldn't have given it to you in the first place. They may turn out to be dead wrong in their creditworthy analysis, but that was their decision.

Kinda like if you were to rig Visa's headquarters with explosives and threaten to blow the building unless you were issued a new credit card? Would this new card prove my credit worthiness?

No, I dont really think so.

But if you were to actually blow up Visa's headquarter's, it would be seen as an act of such 'creative destruction' and 'artistic merit' that you wouldnt actually need a credit card in the future (although it is possible that, that would be because you were 'sent to jail' before you passed 'go').

[flying]

But if you were to actually blow up Visa's headquarters, it would be seen as an act of such 'creative destruction' and 'artistic merit'

But only a fraction of the merit you would get for blowing up GS

[jazzbo]

VISA -- from its days as BankAmericard -- is an association and doesn't have a real HQ for you guys to blow up; and if it DID have a HQ, it wouldn't be issuing credit cards but only providing the network for a Member Country Association whose Member Banks and others issue credit cards. However, if you were to blow yourself up, as often happens to those who like to play with explosives, they wouldn't have to worry about it.

However, if you were to blow-up all the illegal aliens, then nobody has to worry about phony loans or using local taxes to provide their kids' educations; because they and their phony loans are the source of the downfall of the US economy.

... and if we blow up Japan, then we can save them from their impending Keynesian misery which we in the USA might then not be doomed to follow.

Taking Cover... because if YOU know the conspiracy is true, and you are no longer under the grip of the Company, they must obviously have to eliminate you like in the movie Three Days of the Condor before the truth be told.

[jazzbo]

QUOTE (Abrak @ 2009-06-15 09:27:48) *

But what do you really mean by insane? Don't you mean inflationary fears and a level of inflation that could well be detrimental to real growth?

QUOTE (flying @ 2009-06-16 09:43:30) *

No I mean insane...Stupid...Idiotic...all along those lines. This amount of money being created is all of those things.

... and I just Searched; you guys (all) use the word 'insane' in this topic for 2 pages of Search results -- far more (zero) than in the Mental Health section. It's like where one Scot guy here on TV.com regarding tips or whatever said that he is "tighter than a camel's ass" and I couldn't help but wonder how does he know how tight a camel's ass is? What wonderful discourse when one disagrees: You are insane... in OKC it was just you will burn in hel_l truth be told.

[AlexLah]

Jazz, why would they have to eliminate a crying wolf? I am not a danger to the establishment as I am the only one screaming.

The question is to you and everyone interested: Why are you not looking into this and be open to change your perception of what is really going on?

Kind regards,

Alex

[lannarebirth]

The conspiracy I was pointing at a bit more than a year ago has finally seen the light of day (sort of). Remember I was hammering about oil?

Read the following: http://seekingalpha.com/article/172797-the...icle_sb_popular

As I no longer work for"The Company" and now that the story is in public domain I can confirm this story is 99% true.

Taking cover........

Have you already forgotten last years epic thread Alex?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2108433

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2112461

[jazzbo]

I am not a danger to the establishment as I am the only one screaming.

...and just where are you screaming? Here on ThaiVisa? Why aren't you screaming at a Congressional Whistle-Blower Hearing in Washington DC if you know so much? So maybe if you tell a little more I will then take cover ... but if Phil Davis knows, everybody knows.

[jazzbo]

from the Wall Street screenplay by Oliver Stone and Stanley Weiser:

Gordon GEKKO

The most valuable commodity I know

of is information. Wouldn't you

agree on that?

If you can post it from a URL, it ain't information; it's just old information

[Abrak]

But if you were to actually blow up Visa's headquarters, it would be seen as an act of such 'creative destruction' and 'artistic merit'

But only a fraction of the merit you would get for blowing up GS

Flying, I have to disagree with you here on the 'artistic merit' side. Essentially GS generally only rip off the 'rich' to make themselves richer. The poor arent really allowed on the table - sort of like going to a casino where the minimum is a US$500 chip. Now ripping off the rich is a highly credible artistic statement so long as you dont take back all the gains as multi-year bonuses.

However, I could be proved wrong - I mean if they pay themselves US$30bn in bonuses and rush back to the Government and ask for a US$20bn bailout, they would be generating huge value in their ultimate destruction. Still it isnt very likely.

Artistic merit and Visa go together so sweetly because the concept is that we wont achieve anything until the end of capitalism and meanwhile we must console ourselves by going shopping.....

[Abrak]

... and if we blow up Japan, then we can save them from their impending Keynesian misery which we in the USA might then not be doomed to follow.

The concept of blowing up Japan is an interesting one (especially as a concept of saving the US). But having tried it before at the end of WW2 I do think it is a bit mean to repeat the experiment on them (especially as they dont have many people and they are all growing old.)

Actually a much more productive idea which I think Keynes might well have approved of is for the US to blow much of itself up (like all those excess houses, shopping malls etc..). Assuming not too much collateral damage, the effects could be quite productive for growth, employment and market clearing.

Obviously an alternative solution to the unemployment situation could be to simply shoot them all as they are non-productive - however, personally I am not really in favor of this plan, although as so few people have come up with a constructive plan to reduce unemployment, it at least is worthy of consideration.

Edited November 13, 2009 by Abrak

[jazzbo]

So now the discussion is which building to blow-up and waiting until the end of capitalism ...

If there's a Full-Scale-War out there (to quote Gary N.), this surely can't be it.

[jazzbo]

think from outside the box, collapse the box and take a f_cking knife to it. just make sure you haven't passed out inside the box when that happens.

[Abrak]

think from outside the box, collapse the box and take a f_cking knife to it. just make sure you haven't passed out inside the box when that happens.

No worries there at all. Come the revolution I will be one of the first up against the wall.

[jazzbo]

Linda Richman (Mike Myers from SNL):

That's a beautiful story. So, he really does do that. What a nice man. [ tries to hold back her tears ] I'm a little farklempt!

Talk amongst yourselves.

Here's a topic: Did Truman drop the atomic bomb to defeat the Japanese or to scare the Russians? Discuss. [ she holds it all in ] There. I feel better.

So goodnight Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are.

[Abrak]

.....

Edited November 13, 2009 by Abrak

[jazzbo]

No worries there at all. Come the revolution I will be one of the first up against the wall.

From what I've read, come the revolution, they'll have you peeling potatoes.