Financial Crisis

[midas]

an inherently silly exercise but so is a financial crisis thread when there isnt much sign of one around.

Read some of the comments posted below this article and it can change your mind

Record 40% Of Unemployed Without Job For 27+ Weeks

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/record-40...ut-job-27-weeks

[BlackJack]

THe crisis aint over

its just beginning

just get the net value and plus plus plus

enjoy

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/705.html

[midas]

2 articles that suggest we should not completely trust any data coming from China either ................

( 1 ) http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/08/business...html?ref=busi...

( 2 ) America’s savviest billionaires are betting an Economic Crash in China

The truth is, I wouldn’t be so confident in my prediction if the facts weren’t backed up by two of America’s top billionaire investors. One of them single-handedly uncovered the Enron fraud in 2002 and made a fortune betting on its collapse. The other – an “obsessively secretive” California billionaire, according to Forbes – was one of the only investors who made money in 2008, as the markets crashed.

Right now, these famous billionaires… and a small group of savvy traders… are positioning themselves to capture HUGE gains as the Chinese market corrects over the next 6 months. To top it off, just a few weeks ago… the head of Morgan Stanley Asia made an unprecedented statement:

“China’s ballooning stock market bubble… is likely to burst in the first half of 2010.”

Why are rich traders and institutional investors confidently betting millions of dollars on a Chinese market correction in 2010? Well, over the past few months, something unusual has been going on in the Chinese economy…

* Cars running without gas?

According to Forbes magazine, car sales have almost DOUBLED all across the country. China’s state-owned car companies are thriving. Yet, gasoline consumption has been falling steadily.

* Factories using phantom energy?

The New York Times reported that China’s economy expanded an incredible 8.9% this year. Factories are churning out more and more goods; the Chinese are consuming more and more services. But a recent government-backed energy report showed electricity consumption fell off a cliff this year.

* Empty skyscrapers?

Chinese real-estate companies are booming in cities like Beijing and Shanghai… building high-end apartments and office complexes. But Zhang Xin – CEO of one of the country’s most successful property development firms – recently told London’s Financial Times: “We can see more and more empty buildings across the whole country…”

* Government buying TVs?

According to the government, China’s rising middle class has been buying an unprecedented number of TVs and electronics. (A 15% jump since last year.) At the same time, a Foreign Policy journalist reported that huge inventories of electronics lie boxed up in state-owned warehouses outside Beijing.

What’s going on here? What do these strange discrepancies in Chinese market data mean? And, more importantly, how could this situation help you collect thousands of dollars in extra income over the next 6 months? In a nutshell, it looks like the Communists are cooking the books

I don’t know about you, but I certainly don’t completely trust any data coming from an autocratic Communist government

For example, author and China expert Gordon Chang speculates that the Communist Politburo is forcing state-owned enterprises to buy millions of cars, clothes, and electronics… and store them in giant warehouses… to stimulate “fake” growth. And according to Foreign Policy, Communist Party officials have been “helping with layoffs” at factories all across China. They give workers 2 choices: Get fired… or “resign” and collect a big upfront payment. “I would estimate around 70% of workers took the resignation deal,” says one factory owner.

Very simply, resignations aren’t included in unemployment statistics. And the government wants to keep the stats optimistic… to prolong a stock-market bubble.

Jim Chanos, for one, thinks the Chinese miracle growth story “is getting harder and harder to believe.” Chanos is the billionaire American investor who first uncovered the Enron fraud in 2002… and made millions of dollars betting on its collapse. Now, he’s betting a ton of money on the collapse of Chinese stocks. And you’ve almost certainly heard of Bill Gross. He runs the world’s biggest bond fund, PIMCO. Well, he too recently bet that China’s stock market bubble will burst very soon”.

[BlackJack]

2 articles that suggest we should not completely trust any data coming from China either ................

( 1 ) http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/08/business...html?ref=busi...

( 2 ) America’s savviest billionaires are betting an Economic Crash in China

The truth is, I wouldn’t be so confident in my prediction if the facts weren’t backed up by two of America’s top billionaire investors. One of them single-handedly uncovered the Enron fraud in 2002 and made a fortune betting on its collapse. The other – an “obsessively secretive” California billionaire, according to Forbes – was one of the only investors who made money in 2008, as the markets crashed.

Right now, these famous billionaires… and a small group of savvy traders… are positioning themselves to capture HUGE gains as the Chinese market corrects over the next 6 months. To top it off, just a few weeks ago… the head of Morgan Stanley Asia made an unprecedented statement:

“China’s ballooning stock market bubble… is likely to burst in the first half of 2010.”

Why are rich traders and institutional investors confidently betting millions of dollars on a Chinese market correction in 2010? Well, over the past few months, something unusual has been going on in the Chinese economy…

* Cars running without gas?

According to Forbes magazine, car sales have almost DOUBLED all across the country. China’s state-owned car companies are thriving. Yet, gasoline consumption has been falling steadily.

* Factories using phantom energy?

The New York Times reported that China’s economy expanded an incredible 8.9% this year. Factories are churning out more and more goods; the Chinese are consuming more and more services. But a recent government-backed energy report showed electricity consumption fell off a cliff this year.

* Empty skyscrapers?

Chinese real-estate companies are booming in cities like Beijing and Shanghai… building high-end apartments and office complexes. But Zhang Xin – CEO of one of the country’s most successful property development firms – recently told London’s Financial Times: “We can see more and more empty buildings across the whole country…”

* Government buying TVs?

According to the government, China’s rising middle class has been buying an unprecedented number of TVs and electronics. (A 15% jump since last year.) At the same time, a Foreign Policy journalist reported that huge inventories of electronics lie boxed up in state-owned warehouses outside Beijing.

What’s going on here? What do these strange discrepancies in Chinese market data mean? And, more importantly, how could this situation help you collect thousands of dollars in extra income over the next 6 months? In a nutshell, it looks like the Communists are cooking the books

I don’t know about you, but I certainly don’t completely trust any data coming from an autocratic Communist government

For example, author and China expert Gordon Chang speculates that the Communist Politburo is forcing state-owned enterprises to buy millions of cars, clothes, and electronics… and store them in giant warehouses… to stimulate “fake” growth. And according to Foreign Policy, Communist Party officials have been “helping with layoffs” at factories all across China. They give workers 2 choices: Get fired… or “resign” and collect a big upfront payment. “I would estimate around 70% of workers took the resignation deal,” says one factory owner.

Very simply, resignations aren’t included in unemployment statistics. And the government wants to keep the stats optimistic… to prolong a stock-market bubble.

Jim Chanos, for one, thinks the Chinese miracle growth story “is getting harder and harder to believe.” Chanos is the billionaire American investor who first uncovered the Enron fraud in 2002… and made millions of dollars betting on its collapse. Now, he’s betting a ton of money on the collapse of Chinese stocks. And you’ve almost certainly heard of Bill Gross. He runs the world’s biggest bond fund, PIMCO. Well, he too recently bet that China’s stock market bubble will burst very soon”.

SO how do we find out what they are betting on and how can we cash in on the fall as well

Same in the USA with the pending loan crisis

how can we position ourselves to cash in

Gold?

[12DrinkMore]

More on the US unemployment figures

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...id=aHA4PMI1G2ks

An exodus of discouraged workers from the job market kept the U.S. unemployment rate from climbing above 10 percent in December, economists said.

Had the labor force not decreased by 661,000 last month, the jobless rate would have been 10.4 percent

The so-called underemployment rate -- which includes part- time workers who’d prefer a full-time position and people who want work but have given up looking -- rose to 17.3 percent in December from 17.2 percent.

The number of discouraged workers, those not looking for work because they believe none is available, climbed to 929,000 last month, the most since records began in 1994.

But only one bank failure this year

http://www.fdic.gov/bank/historical/bank/index.html

[AlexLah]

It will not take long,some buildings and infrastructure have to be payed for...

[Naam]

i can't speak for Abrak but as far as i am concerned the current state of the financial markets are perfectly acceptable to me. that applies of course only to the specific segment i have invested, cashed in most of my profits and have still a few hot kettles bubbling.

nota bene: financial markets are not limited to DOW, Nasdaq and S&P in the Greatest Nation on Earth™ were poor ignorant suckers lose their money making fund managers rich who handle their IRAs, 401ks and what not bullshit schemes invented to save a buck in taxes but lose two bucks in other ways.

Agreed financial markets are not limited to “ DOW, Nasdaq and S&P in the Greatest Nation on Earth™ ”

But how do you know for sure how many public officials in other countries than the Greatest Nation on Earth™ are up to their

necks in fraud ( you know that which you think homeowners should not be involved with ) and corruption as well

………….and THAT is a crisis

which doesn't concern me either.

So if US homeowners just do what they are in fact legally entitled to do it generates this response

from you :-

“not paying your debt when you are able to pay is FRAUD! in my country and a lot of others you are either forced to pay or you go to prison. period! “

1. And yet corrupt banksters, public servants and officials committing fraud generates a “ which doesn't concern me either ” response from you…………

2. Your double standards are astonishing

3. And the way YOU think is also a CRISIS

1. i have no influence on the behaviour of corrupt bankers or public servants. therefore i am doing all i can to safeguard my interests instead of whining and decrying things which i cannot change in a public forum.

2. i don't see any double standards. just a single standard with the maxime "does it benefit me?"

3. i apologise if my crisis thinking causes you sleepless nights but i do hope it does not affect the fertility of your ricefield.

[flying]

Chavez Devalues Bolivar 50%, First Time Since 2005

January 09, 2010, 11:47 AM EST

[12DrinkMore]

Bastards.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/ja...time-city-banks

The world's biggest investment banks are expected to pay out more than $65bn (£40bn) in salaries and bonuses in the next two weeks

:D

[flying]

Bastards.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/ja...time-city-banks

The world's biggest investment banks are expected to pay out more than $65bn (£40bn) in salaries and bonuses in the next two weeks

:D

Not surprising & it is the same on this side of the pond...

I guess if you give the too big to fail enough govt $$$

& they go to the casino/stock markets...They have enough to control & increase their holdings.

Also not surprising in the wake of it.....The parasite is larger than the host.

For the first time there are decidedly more government employees than goods-producing (manufacturing) employees in the US according to the Department of Labor.

http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2...than-goods.html

Edited January 10, 2010 by flying

[midas]

For the first time there are decidedly more government employees than goods-producing (manufacturing) employees in the US according to the Department of Labor.

I wonder what is the definition of a " government employee " in the Obama era ? Could it include

companies mainly owned by the govt e.g. GM assembly line workers ?

[flying]

For the first time there are decidedly more government employees than goods-producing (manufacturing) employees in the US according to the Department of Labor.

I wonder what is the definition of a " government employee " in the Obama era ? Could it include

companies mainly owned by the govt e.g. GM assembly line workers ?

Government Motors? I doubt it. They are asking for more $$

But one has to wonder how this system? will work.

If there are more govt employees than goods producing employees .......

Doesn't that sound just like Social Security & we know where that is headed.

[BlackJack]

let the bankers enjoy their big fat bonuses as when the next round of mortgage failures appear whos going to bail them out next time

watch the 60 mins video on the second leg of the sub prime mess

watch out INCOMMING

[midas]

SO how do we find out what they are betting on and how can we cash in on the fall as well

Same in the USA with the pending loan crisis

how can we position ourselves to cash in

Gold?

he refused to say how

[lannarebirth]

let the bankers enjoy their big fat bonuses as when the next round of mortgage failures appear whos going to bail them out next time

watch the 60 mins video on the second leg of the sub prime mess

watch out INCOMMING

I looked at that video clip and it says it was posted in December of 2008. When the 60 Minutes episode originally aired I do not know. Aren't we in the midst of the "fallout" from this phenomenon already?

[midas]

let the bankers enjoy their big fat bonuses as when the next round of mortgage failures appear whos going to bail them out next time

watch the 60 mins video on the second leg of the sub prime mess

watch out INCOMMING

I looked at that video clip and it says it was posted in December of 2008. When the 60 Minutes episode originally aired I do not know. Aren't we in the midst of the "fallout" from this phenomenon already?

This article says the resets have been delayed until well into 2010.

http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/cont...0416_103126.htm

[12DrinkMore]

Well, here's an alternative view.

The whole world of finance is totally blinkered on measuring everything in terms of money and whether the price is going up or down. One particularly important parameter is the GDP, which is considered to be great if it is going up by a couple of percent each year and an absolute disaster if it goes down .0000001%.

Maybe it is time to change this model of continual growth and move to a steady state in the "developed countries". After all, if they are developed, then surely there should not be an expectation of ever increasing profits and growth? And as long as there is, then this "growth" does not come from increasing standards of living, but through inflation, with higher wages and paradoxically decreasing standards of living, as taxes and inflation rip into wage increases and we are all worse off.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/ja...eel-good-factor

But with unemployment still rising, taxes going up and personal debt still high, the public may decide they do not feel any better just because of a couple of abstract numbers that don't correspond to their own experiences. And Britain is far from the only country to have discovered in the past two years that a record of rapid GDP growth does not guarantee long-term prosperity, let alone fairness or environmental sustainability.

Financial Services Authority chief Adair Turner last week questioned whether economic growth was a "false god". He said that not only did growth harm the climate by increasing emissions of greenhouse gases, but "all the evidence shows that beyond the sort of standard of living which Britain has now achieved, extra growth does not automatically translate into human welfare and happiness".

Well said.

But I am not optimistic. The force of selfish human greed will prevail, as indeed it has always prevailed with very few exceptions. We seem to be genetically disposed to taking as much as we can and screwing the others as much as possible. And the bankers and politicians are prime examples of those at the top, and, at the other end of the scale, we have the wasters and idlers taking as much out of the system for as little input as possible.

[AlexLah]

Who will pay for this?

We will soon find out....

Take care all.

[Naam]

Who will pay for this?

not me!

[flying]

Interview/ conversation between Steve Forbes & Ron Paul

Also a good commentary by Steve Forbes first.

I am glad to see Ron Paul getting so much air time lately.

Even a full blooded Dem Rachel Madow had him on her show the other day.

I didn't watch as I cant stand her but I did see the you tube.

Here is the Steve Forbes clip....

http://www.forbes.com/2010/01/08/ron-paul-...ting-video.html

[Abrak]

I like this article by Kaletsky about his New Year predictions (in full below because I couldnt find the link).

To some extent I think it sums up the debate that is going to ensue over the next 6 months about whether the 'financial crisis' was 'real' or more like a 'panic'. It raises the question of whether the 'recovery' is a combination of 'inventory turn and unprecedented monetary/fiscal stimulus' which have papered over the 'cracks' or is a strong 'rebound'.

Personally, while there may have been an element of panic, I do believe problems are very real and very deep. I also think that the momentum is on the up and there is no 'new crisis' that is clearly visible over the next say 6 months. So it is a bit of a 'I believe in another downturn but I cant actually see one short term.' (Admittedly, my GF believes in ghosts and isnt expecting to see one for the foreseeable future.)

When I say momentum is up, I mean the short term statistics. When the US announced 3.5% growth in 3Q (later revised down to about 2.3%) the consensus forecast for 4Q was 1.1% growth based on increased 'inventory' and 'fiscal stimulus'. Now consensus is 3.5% and it is more likely to surprise on the upside.

For all the deflationary bears there are more signs of 'inflation' whether it be the rise in long term rates, the expectation of tightening, the rise in inflation numbers (say Thailand November), the rise in gold, the relative rise in silver/oil v. gold etc.

And on a global basis, the growth forecasts are basically positive and rising.

Personally, I do think there is a high degree of 'illusion' - inventories/dead cat asset bouncies/long recession demand rebounds etc - growth may surprise on the upside short term but it doesnt really look sustainable.

In the 20 years since I started writing the economic view column, I have devoted each year’s first article to making some non-consensus predictions, always preceded by an assessment of what I had said 12 months before.

Usually, this retrospective audit is a humbling experience, but in 2009, most of my predictions turned out to be roughly right. This, however, is no cause for self-congratulation, since it merely reverses the dismal record of the previous year, when almost everything I said turned out to be wrong. These two outcomes were closely related for reasons that may shed some light on the year ahead.

Since the beginning of the credit crunch, most of my analysis had been based on a core assumption that appeared ridiculous in the months just after Lehman but which now looks as if it may have been right after all. I believed that the credit crunch was just an ordinary financial boom-bust cycle that happened to be blown out of all proportion by an astonishingly incompetent policy response in the United States.

Had it not been for the inexplicable policy blunders of Henry Paulson, the US Treasury Secretary, in mid-2008, above all the decisions to wipe out shareholders in Fannie Mae and to bankrupt Lehman Brothers, but also his refusal to counteract the speculation that drove the oil price to $150 in mid-2008, the world economy would probably have suffered nothing more serious than a mild recession. Once Lehman went bankrupt, a deep recession was inevitable, but I still believed that some simple, albeit radical, policy changes would be sufficient to turn the situation around.

Thus my key predictions in January last year all related to America. I argued that US prospects would be instantly improved once Mr Paulson and President Bush were hustled out of office. “Instantly”, in the macroeconomic context, means within one or two quarters, which was why I suggested that after a few more months of severe contraction, signs of recovery would appear in the property and financial markets by early summer, with the real economy rebounding shortly after, led by inventories and exports. Consumer spending would be slower to recover, but would gradually respond to the combination of zero interest rates, unconventional monetary policy and a $1,000 billion fiscal stimulus.

As a result, I suggested that the US would “surprise most observers by staging a roaring recovery, just as it did in 1983 and 1984”. I also argued that the dollar, far from being reduced to a “toilet-paper currency” by budget deficits and monetary expansion, would actually strengthen as a result of the new Administration’s hyperactive policy approach.

These views about the US recovery turned out to be roughly right and lead to my predictions for 2010. With interest rates near zero and almost all assets still much cheaper than they were two years ago, I expect property and share prices to go on rising, at least until the fourth quarter of 2010, when the US bull markets may be temporarily interrupted by a very cautious increase in interest rates.

The claim about a “roaring” US recovery may seem like an overstatement, but recall that 2009 is not yet over in a statistical sense. Most recent indicators suggest that US growth in the fourth quarter will be very strong, notwithstanding the mildly disappointing employment December figures last Friday.

According to Ian Shepherdson, of High Frequency Economics, who has done better at anticipating the twists and turns of US economic statistics than any other analyst I follow, GDP growth in 2009’s fourth quarter was probably above 4 per cent — and other respected analysts are coming out with figures of 5 per cent plus.

So I stick to my guns in believing that a “roaring” US recovery is already under way. Unlike most other analysts, who believe that the strong fourth quarter will prove just a temporary aberration to be followed by a long period of sub-trend growth, I expect US growth to remain around 4 per cent throughout 2010, making this the strongest year for the US economy since the 1990s.

The reason for this growth surge will be quite simple. The Federal Reserve Board is determined to maximise growth and employment in an environment where consumers, financial institutions and government all need to improve their finances. To facilitate this process, the Fed will keep interest rates near zero at least until next autumn and when it does start to tighten, it will do so only very slowly, raising interest rates by no more than a quarter-point or half a point before the end of the year.

This low-interest outlook may seem to contradict the bullish view I expressed last year about the dollar — and, indeed, the dollar weakened slightly in 2009, instead of rising.

But in comparison with the dire conventional wisdom about the dollar (and the pound) after the Fed and the Bank of England started freely printing money, my error last year was more a matter of timing than direction. While the dollar is 3 per cent lower than a year ago in its trade-weighted index, it has totally defied widespread predictions of a freefall and its prospects look increasingly favourable with every passing week.

The strong dollar, therefore, is another prediction that I will repeat for the year ahead — and I will stick my neck out further by suggesting that the dollar will go up against every other leading currency in 2010, with the possible exception of the Chinese yuan.

The world’s weakest currency is likely to be the euro as US exporters increase their global market share mainly at the expense of European rivals, while Chinese and Japanese manufacturers divert to Europe many of the goods that they can no longer sell in the US.

Again, this is really an extension of a somewhat premature suggestion I made last year, when I said that the focus of global economic troubles would shift from America to Europe. This did not quite happen in 2009, although the falls in output and industrial production were much steeper in Europe than the US. But German government labour subsidies will soon expire and the financial pressures on Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Spain and Central Europe can only intensify.

I therefore repeat a point I made last year: before this crisis is completely finished, the cohesion of the eurozone will be tested to near-destruction.

Finally, Britain. Last year’s expectations all pointed in the right direction, but again were somewhat early. Foreseeing that the Bank of England would respond to the dire state of the economy and the pound’s unwelcome strengthening with aggressive and unconventional monetary expansion was relatively easy.

A less obvious prediction was that the British economy and the housing market would improve significantly in the second half of the year. This should be confirmed in fourth-quarter GDP data due next month. In contrast to America, however, economic recovery in Britain is likely to be weak. The year ahead will be disappointing in Britain for several reasons: political uncertainty before an election; an exodus of financial business from London; tax increases already legislated, with more to come in a post-election mini-Budget; and excessive strengthening of sterling.

The main good news is that the Bank, like the Fed, will do its utmost to counteract all these deflationary forces. The Bank may also surprise the markets by expanding its quantitative easing and will try to prevent any significant appreciation of sterling.

This leads to my last and perhaps most controversial prediction: despite the supposed bankruptcy of the British Government, interest rates will stay near zero throughout this year and will still be below 2 per cent by the time this column reaches its 25th anniversary in 2015.

[midas]

I like this article by Kaletsky about his New Year predictions (in full below because I couldnt find the link).

To some extent I think it sums up the debate that is going to ensue over the next 6 months about whether the 'financial crisis' was 'real' or more like a 'panic'. It raises the question of whether the 'recovery' is a combination of 'inventory turn and unprecedented monetary/fiscal stimulus' which have papered over the 'cracks' or is a strong 'rebound'.

Personally, while there may have been an element of panic, I do believe problems are very real and very deep. I also think that the momentum is on the up and there is no 'new crisis' that is clearly visible over the next say 6 months. So it is a bit of a 'I believe in another downturn but I cant actually see one short term.' (Admittedly, my GF believes in ghosts and isnt expecting to see one for the foreseeable future.)

When I say momentum is up, I mean the short term statistics. When the US announced 3.5% growth in 3Q (later revised down to about 2.3%) the consensus forecast for 4Q was 1.1% growth based on increased 'inventory' and 'fiscal stimulus'. Now consensus is 3.5% and it is more likely to surprise on the upside.

For all the deflationary bears there are more signs of 'inflation' whether it be the rise in long term rates, the expectation of tightening, the rise in inflation numbers (say Thailand November), the rise in gold, the relative rise in silver/oil v. gold etc.

And on a global basis, the growth forecasts are basically positive and rising.

Here is the link :-

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/c...icle6982990.ece

I read that yesterday but I actually found it more of insight to read the comments of the readers after the article.

There are not many who seem to have the respect for Anatole Kaletsky as you do such as this one :-

“Even a broken clock is right twice a day.”

or

“All I can say is that you are the UK's Paul Krugman. Also, look up Cloward-Piven to find

out what Obama's agenda is based “

( for anyone out there who by now has the even the slightest feeling that what

Obama’ Administration is doing doesn’t feel quite right- you should read about Cloward-Piven)

When you make statements such as “I also think that the momentum is on the up and

there is no 'new crisis' that is clearly visible over the next say 6 months “ – this

doesn’t surprise me from a person who doesn’t believe that civil unrest will erupt in USA .

I honestly wish that what USA is experiencing was only limited to text book economics.

[midas]

“All I can say is that you are the UK's Paul Krugman. Also, look up Cloward-Piven to find

out what Obama's agenda is based “ [/b][/i]

( for anyone out there who by now has the even the slightest feeling that what

Obama’ Administration is doing doesn’t feel quite right- you should read about Cloward-Piven)

This is why the financial crisis in USA will get much worse…………..its Obama’s plan for it to do so

Using borrowed money for a band-aid bailout of the economy should seem backwards to most people. However, it likely is a planned strategy to promote radical change. Those naively believing that President Obama is simply rewarding his far-left base, and will then move to the political center, must wise up.

The Cloward/Piven Strategy is another method employed by the radical Left to create and manage crisis. This strategy explains Rahm Emanuel's ominous statement, "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste."

Making an already weak economy even worse is the intent of the Cloward/Piven Strategy. It is imperative that we view the American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan's spending on items like food stamps, jobless benefits, and health care through this end goal. This strategy explains why the Democrat plan to "stimulate" the economy involves massive deficit spending projects. It includes billions for ACORN and its subgroups such as SHOP and the Neighborhood Stabilization Program. Expanding the S-Chip Program through deficit spending in a supposed effort to "save the children" only makes a faltering economy worse.

The Cloward/Piven Strategy is named after Columbia University sociologists Richard Andrew Cloward and Frances Fox Piven. Their goal is to overthrow capitalism by overwhelming the government bureaucracy with entitlement demands. The created crisis provides the impetus to bring about radical political change.

Rather than placating the poor with government hand-outs, wrote Cloward and Piven, “ activists should work to sabotage and destroy the welfare system; the collapse of the welfare state would ignite a political and financial crisis that would rock the nation... ”

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/02/the...ategy_of_e.html

Edited January 12, 2010 by midas

[Abrak]

“Even a broken clock is right twice a day.”

Honestly Midas, I like reading stuff that is only right twice a day.

And I also like reading stuff by people for whom the bar has been set even lower.

[BlackJack]

SO how do we find out what they are betting on and how can we cash in on the fall as well

Same in the USA with the pending loan crisis

how can we position ourselves to cash in

Gold?

he refused to say how

its a question dummy!!!

how can we???

is a question.

dont you feel stupid now?

another question

[BlackJack]

there is an opportunity coming up to make money on the markets going down again and so instead of pushing the same old barrow here it maybe a wiser move to focus the discussion on strategies to cash in as others did in the Sub Prime fiasco.

[midas]

its a question dummy!!!

how can we???

is a question.

dont you feel stupid now?

another question

No I dont feel stupid at all

I understand perfectly well that it was a question .

You asked “ SO how do we find out what they are betting on ? “

So who is exactly is " they " ? I assumed “ they “in your reply

was a reference to the activities of James S. Chanos the subject of the article ?

In the link to New York Times you will see the reporter stated :-

“ Betting against China will not be easy. Because foreigners are restricted from investing in stocks

listed inside China, Mr. Chanos has said he is searching for other ways to

make his bets, including focusing on construction- and infrastructure-related

companies that sell cement, coal, steel and iron ore. ”

Hence my reponse ............. “he refused to say how “

[12DrinkMore]

"Prisoner of the market"

Oh yeah, right. Pay on and on, dish up the bonuses because we have no choice. ABSOLUTE CRAP.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbys...ge-bonuses.html

Sack them, sack them all. There will surely be hundreds if not thousands queuing up to take over these jobs. And most of these jobs can be cut anyway. The vast majority are utter <deleted>, I've been there, I've seen them and know what a bunch of arrogant pricks they are.

Well, at least Hester is on the right path.

arguing instead that banks need to be weaned off taxpayer support and able to fail without requiring public rescues

This is an easy step, just separate the retail banking from the investment banking. Why has it not been done?

But moving on, here comes the taxman to take more from the middle class in the relentless war against having some upstarts thinking they can escape the lower classes. Put 'em back to where they came from; the world belongs to the bankers and politicians.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/persona...ax-evaders.html

The next decade will see some major advances in tax collection by the universal use of technology to clamp down on any naughty evaders trying to escape the clutches of the mighty taxman, who has to drum up the income to pay the masters, the politicians and the huge overhead of administration. Here is an initiative from the credit card lot moving towards a cashless society where every single transaction will be recorded and compared centrally against your income.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbys...-the-cards.html

Spend too much and here cometh the taxman a knockin' at your door. "Where did you get that extra 50p?"

And maybe a bit of QE from the retailers to bolster up sales?

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jerem...cord-christmas/

Catch the comment

Tesco has its own QE programme worth £100 million in vouchers which is has counted as sales in these figures. I don’t approve of the way all retailers are using vouchers to maintain spending at unsustainable levels, and especially to tempt shoppers to buy luxury items. The idea that to save you spend has taken hold entirely because of vouchers which in truth bring forward spending that may not be for our common good. If you are spending simply to use a voucher, that is not spending you planned, and when you spend you do not save. I wish Tesco would address that we can’t keep spending as we have done for the past ten years and diversify.

[BlackJack]

its a question dummy!!!

how can we???

is a question.

dont you feel stupid now?

another question

No I dont feel stupid at all

I understand perfectly well that it was a question .

You asked “ SO how do we find out what they are betting on ? “

So who is exactly is " they " ? I assumed “ they “in your reply

was a reference to the activities of James S. Chanos the subject of the article ?

In the link to New York Times you will see the reporter stated :-

“ Betting against China will not be easy. Because foreigners are restricted from investing in stocks

listed inside China, Mr. Chanos has said he is searching for other ways to

make his bets, including focusing on construction- and infrastructure-related

companies that sell cement, coal, steel and iron ore. ”

Hence my reponse ............. “he refused to say how “

wow what a leap in logic!

anyway

go here for some suggestions http://finance.yahoo.com/expert/article/ri...TB0aGViZXN0bw--

love him or hate him (assume RK) he maybe right

oil gold silver

[flying]

Ahhhhh Transparency

SEC Orders AIG Info Sealed Until November... 2018!