Financial Crisis

[Naam]

I would really like to have Naam's ability to laugh it all off but its like a toothache that wont go away

the ability to "laugh it all off" is based on the fact to mind and concentrate on one's personal business Midas. but instead of laughing something off i use opportunities to strengthen my financial basis. only i few weeks ago i thought it's all over making easy money based on the "crisis". but i was wrong. some of my postings made even learned TV-members, who possess (unlike boorish me ) a wealth of theoretical detail knowledge in macroeconomics sit up, think twice and... act.

the more the doom&gloom prophets spread their gospel the more opportunities appear for those who do their homework meticulously, act with caution as well as within their means without getting high and mighty and going overboard. i experienced the latter years ago and it taught me a lesson that i will never forget.

We differ in our views so much Naam.

no Midas, it only seems that we differ much in our views7!. where we differ very much are our actions. it is beyond my comprehension that a man with your achievements (which i don't doubt) thinks

quote: "I am very much aware it could all be taken away from me at the blink of an eye. In fact I half expect it because of the fallout of this crisis."

i could accept that statement from a pensioner who has no assets and therefore no means to diversify or hedge anything, relies 100% on his income from some governmental institution which all (we know that for sure) will be on the verge of insolvency in a couple of decades, perhaps even earlier.

you are also overdoing it with "the fallout of this crisis". is each and everybody on this planet stupid except a tiny percentage of doom&gloomers to whom you are listening? can you name some doom&gloomers who have views which are equivalent with your extreme ones ("could be all taken away at the blink of an eye")? aren't you aware that all your arguments are lopsided and some of them are completely irrelevant when you compare their "weighting" with what we have been and are still experiencing? i refer in this respect to your posting "Bahrain and UAE" who's "weighted values" are nothing but tiny lukewarm farts in the (still ongoing) storms of this crisis.

[pkrv]

Perhaps the analysis here will be of interest

http://www.iimagazine.com/StubInfoWOMstr.a...mp;LS=EMS358333

Davos

[midas]

[/b] where we differ very much are our actions. it is beyond my comprehension that a man with your achievements (which i don't doubt) thinks

quote: "I am very much aware it could all be taken away from me at the blink of an eye. In fact I half expect it because of the fallout of this crisis."

i could accept that statement from a pensioner who has no assets and therefore no means to diversify or hedge anything, relies 100% on his income from some governmental institution which all (we know that for sure) will be on the verge of insolvency in a couple of decades, perhaps even earlier.

No but it depends to what extent you believe todays " society " can withstand a severe shock.

I am not so emotionally attached to my money. Yes I use the money , I even like the money very much but I DON’T Worship or love the money. I am mentally prepared to lose it for any number of reasons e.g political takeover, collapse of financial system, war etc.etc I don’t think you could do that ?

you are also overdoing it with "the fallout of this crisis".

because you have an entirely different interpretation of “ crisis “ to me. Not about a few banks going broke in isolation. I see the events of 2008 and 2009 as a small component of a much deeper and wider malaise and a much much bigger picture. And talking about pictures, Movie Director Oliver Stone was in Bangkok just yesterday and even he said in his interview “ we are all living in a dark time - darker than anything I've ever known in my 60-plus years".

is each and everybody on this planet stupid except a tiny percentage of doom&gloomers to whom you are listening?

can you name some doom&gloomers who have views which are equivalent with your extreme ones ("could be all taken away at the blink of an eye")? aren't you aware that all your arguments are lopsided and some of them are completely irrelevant when you compare their "weighting" with what we have been and are still experiencing?

I don’t really care even if there was no one else who have “equivalent “ views to me but I can think of Gerald Celente as one example and even Marc Faber partially .

i refer in this respect to your posting "Bahrain and UAE" who's "weighted values" are nothing but tiny lukewarm farts in the (still ongoing) storms of this crisis.

But I posted Bahrain and UAE because the list is growing and as LaPao says it’s the increasing risk of the domino effect which is the real concern as more and more countries are added to the list.

But this is the real mystery. I come on here as a “ doom and gloomer “ as you put it in anticipation of gathering yet another small snipet of information to try and understand this incredibly complex jig puzzle that I believe is slowly taking shape. But you obviously attach more importance in telling us how you have made even more money and posting rebuttal after rebuttal ( 10,000 ) denying the possibility of a doom and gloom scenario. Why do you bother to do this ?

If wasn’t interested in a subject I wouldn’t even read that particular thread and i definately would not spend the time involved in posting all your contributions. Are you trying to provide an antidote to us doom and gloomers or is there even a small part of you that wont let go of the possibility that something may occur ? I am just curious.

[Naam]

But this is the real mystery. I come on here as a “ doom and gloomer “ as you put it in anticipation of gathering yet another small snipet of information to try and understand this incredibly complex jig puzzle that I believe is slowly taking shape. But you obviously attach more importance in telling us how you have made even more money and posting rebuttal after rebuttal ( 10,000 ) denying the possibility of a doom and gloom scenario. Why do you bother to do this ?

If wasn’t interested in a subject I wouldn’t even read that particular thread and i definately would not spend the time involved in posting all your contributions. Are you trying to provide an antidote to us doom and gloomers or is there even a small part of you that wont let go of the possibility that something may occur ? I am just curious.

-for the record: my >10,000 postings are not in the economic section. my best guess is that half (perhaps more) of them are in threads where technical/engineering problems are discussed.

-this forum is meant to provide information for those who seek information. those who seek information have the right to hear/read all views and opinions and not only lopsided, unfounded and ridiculous BS far from prevailing reality which can be found in hundreds of different threads. i am fortunate and very grateful having had and still have the opportunity to read thousands of postings and derive valuable information from them and this opportunity should be available to all member and readers.

any other questions?

[pkrv]

Somewhat devastating....

Edited January 28, 2010 by pkrv

[AlexLah]

Very nice post Naam (5551) and your last one.

Midas I understand your thinking and calculating in a risk of total disaster. But remember when Paulson told congress the sky would fall and tanks on the street if they not agreed to give 700+ Billion. Well they gave and they spend some of it not as they said.

Did the sky fall? Nope...

The biggest bail out I believe went to pay off those derivatives contracts AIG had made. I remember saying in the beginning of the so called crisis that we were not told the truth and I think we now slowly get the picture that it was all a big scam.

I mentioned Geithner lying and after the hearings this week it is clear he lied about his non involvement in the AIG bail out.

Don't think too much about these issues Midas, we as individuals cannot change a thing about it. Naam is right in saying you have to make sure, you are personally and financially safe, and you have to do whatever it takes to achieve that.

Cheers,

Alex

[flying]

Midas I understand your thinking and calculating in a risk of total disaster. But remember when Paulson told congress the sky would fall and tanks on the street if they not agreed to give 700+ Billion. Well they gave and they spend some of it not as they said.

Did the sky fall? Nope...

The biggest bail out I believe went to pay off those derivatives contracts AIG had made. I remember saying in the beginning of the so called crisis that we were not told the truth and I think we now slowly get the picture that it was all a big scam.

I mentioned Geithner lying and after the hearings this week it is clear he lied about his non involvement in the AIG bail out.

Don't think too much about these issues Midas, we as individuals cannot change a thing about it. Naam is right in saying you have to make sure, you are personally and financially safe, and you have to do whatever it takes to achieve that.

Cheers,

Alex

While I agree in many ways with the last sentence regarding ...all you can do is prep for yourself & what you may think is heading this way....

I do not agree with...they didn't use the bail out $$ for what was promised & the sky didn't fall so all is well.

For one thing yes it is true they did the bait & switch with the TARP/bail out. As you said but that in no way made the problem go away if anything it made it worse.

Also right a lions share went to those such as AIG & what did the people who will be saddled with the bill get in return?

While the markets have said one thing since the bail & suggest to many a recovery of sorts...I do not think so & many others also say it is a mystery as to what is propping this up.

Stock market is headed for 9500 & if it breaks down it would not be surprising to see it dive to 6500...I hope not but the govt keeps running from one extreme to the other with nothing being accomplished in the middle. Faith is being lost daily

We will see what we see & as you/Naam suggests there is little to be done at this point ingredients have been tossed in the pot

...all that is left is to see how it tastes.

[flying]

Dear America,

We are informing you your credit limit has been increased.....

Please proceed to the casinos, Afghanistan, Pakistan etc... in an orderly fashion

Senate Approves Amendment to Raise Debt Ceiling by $1.9 Trillion

WASHINGTON—The Senate approved legislation Thursday increasing the federal government's borrowing limit by $1.9 trillion, enough to enable the Treasury to pay its bills through 2010.

The 60-39 vote was strictly along party lines with no Republicans joining the Democratic majority to approve the legislation.

Once the increase is signed into law, the federal government will be able to borrow up to $14.3 trillion, by far the highest amount of debt it has ever held on its books.

Full article at link

[midas]

Midas I understand your thinking and calculating in a risk of total disaster. But remember when Paulson told congress the sky would fall and tanks on the street if they not agreed to give 700+ Billion. Well they gave and they spend some of it not as they said.

Did the sky fall? Nope...

The biggest bail out I believe went to pay off those derivatives contracts AIG had made. I remember saying in the beginning of the so called crisis that we were not told the truth and I think we now slowly get the picture that it was all a big scam.

I mentioned Geithner lying and after the hearings this week it is clear he lied about his non involvement in the AIG bail out.

Don't think too much about these issues Midas, we as individuals cannot change a thing about it. Naam is right in saying you have to make sure, you are personally and financially safe, and you have to do whatever it takes to achieve that.

Cheers,

Alex

While I agree in many ways with the last sentence regarding ...all you can do is prep for yourself & what you may think is heading this way....

I do not agree with...they didn't use the bail out $$ for what was promised & the sky didn't fall so all is well.

For one thing yes it is true they did the bait & switch with the TARP/bail out. As you said but that in no way made the problem go away if anything it made it worse.

Also right a lions share went to those such as AIG & what did the people who will be saddled with the bill get in return?

While the markets have said one thing since the bail & suggest to many a recovery of sorts...I do not think so & many others also say it is a mystery as to what is propping this up.

Stock market is headed for 9500 & if it breaks down it would not be surprising to see it dive to 6500...I hope not but the govt keeps running from one extreme to the other with nothing being accomplished in the middle. Faith is being lost daily

We will see what we see & as you/Naam suggests there is little to be done at this point ingredients have been tossed in the pot

...all that is left is to see how it tastes.

Thanks Alex and flying my therapists – how much do I owe you for this session ?

I know there is nothing we can do other than be mentally prepared which for me means taking nothing for granted.

Alex you said earlier in this thread you like Celente….did you hear this interview a few weeks ago ? It is interesting and a

very valid point what he says about the future of the MSM .

And I would be interested in flying’s opinion whether he agrees with Celente as to what is the next “ big thing “ in USA ?

It takes a lot of imagination

http://www.lewrockwell.com/celente/celente21.1.html

[flying]

And I would be interested in flying’s opinion whether he agrees with Celente as to what is the next “ big thing “ in USA ?

It takes a lot of imagination

I have not watched these clips yet but do agree with some things he said in the print.

I have long thought that this stupidity in Afghanistan has the ability to balloon into something very ugly & perhaps WWIII

Lines will be drawn & as the US eventually may try to chase ghosts into Pakistan that could be the straw that breaks the back.

Same goes for Iran whether the pressure builds form the US or Israel.

As for another 9-11 type scenario anything is possible although there has been zero since that time which in itself is a big question mark. You would need to be extremely naive to believe a claim that it is due to the US having beefed up security with TSA etc.

Another *event* would only serve as a distraction & who that distraction benefits most is not hard to imagine.

For me if none of the worldly events/ distractions occur ...the biggest threat to the US in the coming year or two is civil unrest.

Year on year foreclosures just came out & are up crazy amounts... Add that to true unemployment figures & you start to get a uneasy crowd. This same crowd grows tired of hearing daily how much profit the recipients of their current & future tax dollars are up this year along with their bonuses.

Lastly take the new credit limit voted in today & ask ...America just got permission to hit 100% Debt/GDP......how long will it take for them to burn through it? Given their current spending & supporting the stupidity of the Military Industrial Complex I would say...not long at all.

Lastly not that I like Prechter much.....

I find The Guidotti-Greenspan rule interesting....

When governments go bankrupt, it's called a "default." Currency speculators figured out how to accurately predict when a country would default. Two well-known economists – Alan Greenspan and Pablo Guidotti – published the secret formula in a 1999 academic paper. The formula is called the Greenspan-Guidotti rule.

The rule states: To avoid a default, countries should maintain hard currency reserves equal to at least 100% of their short-term foreign debt maturities. The world's largest money-management firm, PIMCO, explains the rule this way: "The minimum benchmark of reserves equal to at least 100% of short-term external debt is known as the Greenspan-Guidotti rule. Greenspan-Guidotti is perhaps the single concept of reserve adequacy that has the most adherents and empirical support."

The principle behind the rule is simple. If you can't pay off all of your foreign debts in the next 12 months, you're a terrible credit risk. Speculators are going to target your bonds and your currency, making it impossible to refinance your debts. A default is assured.

So how does America rank on the Greenspan-Guidotti scale? It's a guaranteed default.

Edited January 29, 2010 by flying

[midas]

And I would be interested in flying’s opinion whether he agrees with Celente as to what is the next “ big thing “ in USA ?

It takes a lot of imagination

I have not watched these clips yet but do agree with some things he said in the print.

Flying you can only listen to them – they are only audio not video.

But he has an interesting point about the future of the MSM and then watching your

President yesterday in the State of the Union speech where he intimidated

the Supreme Court Judges publicly was astonishing and very disrespectful.

I then thought about this intimidation and Celente’s prediction about MSM and I remembered the

The Cybersecurity Act of 2009 which is just sitting there ? I ask is this what Obama’s

Marxist team could also forsee and why the The Cybersecurity Act was passed so quickly

and secretly ? i.e. at the appropriate time in the future as things in USA go even more horribly wrong

economically they can try to prevent what Gerald Celente predicts from happening ?

I say until they get these Marxist mafia out of the WH, I say hope for the best but prepare for the worst !

[AlexLah]

Buy some new clothes for when I go to have a drink with Naam.

I think he will like it....

I mean, I think he likes class and style, right?

Edited January 29, 2010 by AlexLah

[pkrv]

Mr naam has indeed made mistakes even on this forum - He really really did not grasp the onshore offshore issue

seen here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Onshore-offs...Mo-t127371.html

naam has a standard strategy - adversity - and in a sense I agree.

[LaoPo]

Buy some new clothes for when I go to have a drink with Naam.

I think he will like it....

I mean, I think he likes class and style, right?

Don't think....he has Class & Style but the weirdo on the pic should learn a little more about those qualifications..which he, no doubt, will never possess, no matter how disgustingly big those rings are;

BTW: does the coat belong to the props of a visiting branche of Cirque du Soleil?

LaoPo

Edited January 29, 2010 by LaoPo

[Abrak]

The formula is called the Greenspan-Guidotti rule.

The rule states: To avoid a default, countries should maintain hard currency reserves equal to at least 100% of their short-term foreign debt maturities. The world's largest money-management firm, PIMCO, explains the rule this way: "The minimum benchmark of reserves equal to at least 100% of short-term external debt is known as the Greenspan-Guidotti rule. Greenspan-Guidotti is perhaps the single concept of reserve adequacy that has the most adherents and empirical support."

The principle behind the rule is simple. If you can't pay off all of your foreign debts in the next 12 months, you're a terrible credit risk. Speculators are going to target your bonds and your currency, making it impossible to refinance your debts. A default is assured.

So how does America rank on the Greenspan-Guidotti scale? It's a guaranteed default.

The US doesnt have any foreign denominated debt.

What Greenspan said was....

In his remarks at the recent G-33 Seminar in Bonn, Pablo Guidotti, the Deputy Finance Minister of Argentina, proposed a simple guideline for policymakers in emerging market economies that a number of my colleagues at the Federal Reserve believe is worth considering. Guidotti suggested that countries should manage their external assets and liabilities in such a way that they are always able to live without new foreign borrowing for up to one year. That is, usable foreign exchange reserves should exceed scheduled amortizations of foreign currency debts (assuming no rollovers) during the following year.

Essentially that a CB should have foreign denominated liquid assets to match private and public short term foreign denominated liabilities. Because if your debt is denominated in your own currency you dont need domestic reserves a "central bank of a fiat currency regime, such reserves can be created without limit."

If your currency is vulnerable short term borrowings are recalled and...

1) You either run down forex reserves - Thailand

2) Raise domestic interest rates/tighten fiscal - Latvia

3) Devalue...

Ultimately all 3 make your foreign debt to GDP ratio worse. Default - say exchanging foreign debt into the local currency at the devalued rate might be a possibility.

All the US debt is already in the local currency - if there is a crisis of confidence in the dollar raising rates 'increases' your cost of funding and deflates the economy. Devaluing the currency erodes debt and boosts GDP. Essentially, by depreciating its currency it is continually defaulting.

Being the central reserve currency excludes you from the very disciplines that made you a reserve in the first place. To be honest the Euro is gradually turning this way. Each country has no monetary policy but each country has an incentive to run very loose fiscal policy.

[Naam]

The US doesnt have any foreign denominated debt.

that is correct but U.S. corporates are up to neir neck in external foreign debt. you name the currencies, they owe it.

[Naam]

Buy some new clothes for when I go to have a drink with Naam. I think he will like it....

I mean, I think he likes class and style, right?

wrong (as far as clothing is concerned)! since more than 20 years my favourite attire is "black t-shirt, white shorts, no socks, Gucci loafers when crossing property line, barefoot at home". when i retired i swore all holy oaths "suit and tie only for weddings and funerals!" and i stuck to it. by the way, Mrs Naam hates my clothing taste/style and has threatened more than once (especially when we are taking a flight or checking into a fancy hotel) to hold a sign with an arrow pointing towards me saying "i have no relation with this individual "

[flying]

wrong (as far as clothing is concerned)! since more than 20 years my favourite attire is "black t-shirt, white shorts, no socks, Gucci loafers when crossing property line, barefoot at home". when i retired i swore all holy oaths "suit and tie only for weddings and funerals!" and i stuck to it. by the way, Mrs Naam hates my clothing taste/style and has threatened more than once (especially when we are taking a flight or checking into a fancy hotel) to hold a sign with an arrow pointing towards me saying "i have no relation with this individual "

:D

We have similar tastes in attire except my loafers are either jogging shoes or plain slippers

[AlexLah]

Midas I posted the picture of the new fashionable look that will be a trend in the near future as Celente says it will be about looks.

Laopo, what is it that you don't like about the new fashion statement, are they the shoes?

Naam I am a bit disappointed about your choice of attire being t-shirt and loafers, I guess the missus will really appreciate my choice, please show her; I think she will love it.

As I said before, due to the incredible number of request for another picture post, I post the following.

Coming soon!

Edit: for some reason the Euro picture ended up as last.

Edited January 30, 2010 by AlexLah

[siamamerican]

The financial system and even undertaking business today " feels "

thoroughly rotten and crooked and sleazy. In the 1980’s and 90's it was an absolute pleasure,

but today it is unrecognisable to me. Maybe it has been easier for me

see this gradual deterioration because of the fact I stepped back.

We usually disagree on everything, but I don't doubt your sincerity. To each his own.

The 80's and 90's were less evil? The world today, in my opinion, is equally evil or good, depending on how you want to look at it. During the 80s in the USA ( the decade of greed), we had corporate raiders, junk bond hockers, a huge federal bank bailout (the savings and loan crisis), a recession with higher unemployment than any since, and a stock market collapse(Black Monday). These are only a few 80s missteps that I remember off the top of my little noggin.

I remember the 80's media clamoring about how America had lost its morality and greed trumped all. Personally, I think it was just more of the same and the media as it always will, jumped on what people enjoy reading. Today we have the internet's self appointed economic gurus dispersing crap all around the world in real time. I get scared sometimes reading internet articles and then it hits me, the author was probably was just taking his morning dump and hit submit after his bowels were clear.

Evil and greed is and will always be part of human existence and it only takes a 5 minute history lesson to verify. Slavery, Holocaust, Killing Fields, Rwandian Genocide, and on an on and on.... This financial crisis is only a bump in the road and will have little lasting consequences 10 years down the road. Helll, we might see more financial regulations and a gradual shift in wealth across the world but nothing earth shattering.

10 years from now the world as a whole will be producing more wealth than it does today. Nothing new here at all; just a continuation of the last 200 years. Everyone has to calm down and remember that prosperity doesn't revolve around them.

[midas]

The financial system and even undertaking business today " feels "

thoroughly rotten and crooked and sleazy. In the 1980’s and 90's it was an absolute pleasure,

but today it is unrecognisable to me. Maybe it has been easier for me

see this gradual deterioration because of the fact I stepped back.

We usually disagree on everything, but I don't doubt your sincerity. To each his own.

The 80's and 90's were less evil? The world today, in my opinion, is equally evil or good, depending on how you want to look at it. During the 80s in the USA ( the decade of greed), we had corporate raiders, junk bond hockers, a huge federal bank bailout (the savings and loan crisis), a recession with higher unemployment than any since, and a stock market collapse(Black Monday). These are only a few 80s missteps that I remember off the top of my little noggin.

I remember the 80's media clamoring about how America had lost its morality and greed trumped all. Personally, I think it was just more of the same and the media as it always will, jumped on what people enjoy reading. Today we have the internet's self appointed economic gurus dispersing crap all around the world in real time. I get scared sometimes reading internet articles and then it hits me, the author was probably was just taking his morning dump and hit submit after his bowels were clear.

Evil and greed is and will always be part of human existence and it only takes a 5 minute history lesson to verify. Slavery, Holocaust, Killing Fields, Rwandian Genocide, and on an on and on.... This financial crisis is only a bump in the road and will have little lasting consequences 10 years down the road. Helll, we might see more financial regulations and a gradual shift in wealth across the world but nothing earth shattering.

10 years from now the world as a whole will be producing more wealth than it does today. Nothing new here at all; just a continuation of the last 200 years. Everyone has to calm down and remember that prosperity doesn't revolve around them.

maybe i can join with you in your positive outlook but not until i see how the world ends up tackling this problem....... you cannot keep borrowing past your income, whether as a family or a government, and not eventually go bankrupt.

[midas]

Midas I posted the picture of the new fashionable look that will be a trend in the near future as Celente says it will be about looks.

Very " elegant " Alex

But you have to give Celente credit because he made that statement in early

January well before this news broke just this week.............

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/8484116.stm

[Abrak]

If you have been wondering why the baht is doing quite so well (it usually depreciates against the US$ when the US$ appreciates) there is a view that the tightening on the Chinese isnt going to do enough to slow it down enough. Therefore China will start appreciating its currency against the US$ again - this will help curb inflation.

Another point is that I doubt the BoT is too worried as the Thai economy has made an almost complete recovery. In some cases many things are hitting new highs. Unlike the US that publishes QOQ, these figures are mostly YOY when GDP is still down. The other point, is that unlike China, this has been achieved without borrowing - although loan growth is up 3% (mostly mortgages.)

Car sales up 35% YOY (new 2 year high)

Private consumption up 4% YOY

Consumer confidence (new high to Jan 2006)

Private investment -2% YOY, up 5% QOQ (well below crisis)

Capacity utilisation 70.1% back to May '08 level

Budget deficit 4.8% for the year

Exports up 26%, imports up 33%

US$122 C/A deficit distorted by over US$1bn of gold imports!

Net capital inflow US2.8bn

Tourists 1.68m up45% new 2 year high (probably a record)

Unemployment has halved over the last 9 months and is at a 2 year low.

Manufacturing up 35% YOY 10% QOQ (at a new peak)

So recovery or rebound basically complete, however, no real sign of investment and borrowing. It could all just mostly be restocking. It looks to be more than that. November was lacklustre (that is when the BoT made its 3.5-4.3% for 2010) looking very conservative. December showed a noticeable leg up and both business and consumer confidence are very strong. Thailand's has done extremely well in this crisis. No (major i.e. ex TMB) banking problems, strong trade surplus, modest fiscal deficit. The quality is very good.

[Naam]

We have similar tastes in attire except my loafers are either jogging shoes or plain slippers

the reason that i can afford Guccis is that i walk 99.5% of the time barefoot. if i'm not mistaken i bought the last three pairs in 1999, one pair i've never worn.

[teletiger]

The USSA is fast becoming the bedrock of irony.

One now has to access the comedy channels to listen to that voice of financial reason....Elizabeth Warren.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-janu...lizabeth-warren

Regards.

[flying]

Swiss warn UBS bank could collapse

Switzerland's justice minister warned in an interview on Sunday that top bank UBS could collapse if sensitive talks with the United States over a high-profile tax fraud investigation fall through.

"The actions of UBS in the United States are very problematic. Not just because they are punishable but also because they threaten all of the bank's activities," Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf told Le Matin Dimanche newspaper.

"The Swiss economy and the job market would suffer on a major scale if UBS fails as a result of its licence being revoked in the United States," she said.

Switzerland and the United States have negotiated an agreement under which UBS would hand over information on some 4,500 account holders to US tax police.

But a Swiss court ruling earlier this month put the deal in doubt.

Many in Switzerland, where banking secrecy is a source of pride and a key part of the economy, have accused the government of failing to protect UBS.

"We have nothing to blame ourselves for. I don't think anyone could prove that we acted badly," Widmer-Schlumpf said in the interview.

[midas]

So not content with fraud the first time around, evidently some swooped in like vultures for another attempt to pick on the carcass

Neil Barofsky, the special inspector general for the trouble asset relief program said his office is investigating 77 cases of possible criminal and civil fraud, including crimes of tax evasion, insider trading, mortgage lending and payment collection, false statements and public corruption.

One case concerns apparent self-dealing by one of the private fund managers Treasury picked to buy bad assets from banks at discounted prices. A portfolio manager at the firm apparently sold a bond out of a private fund, then repurchased it at a higher price for a government-backed fund. A rating agency had just downgraded the bond, so it likely was worth less, not more, when the government fund bought it. The company is not being named pending the outcome of Barofsky's investigation.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...0013100195.html

[Abrak]

Greek government on edge

of default due to deficit, debt

BY BOBBIS MISAILIDES

AND GEORGES MEHRABIAN

ATHENS, Greece—Tens of thousands of workers here face loss of jobs as the economy continues to contract. Capitalist investors are also concerned over the possibility of a government default as a result of its ballooning budget deficit and public debt.

The recently elected social-democratic government of the Panhellenic Socialist Movement (PASOK) has vowed to take measures that will deepen the attacks on workers as bosses seek to make them pay for the sharpening financial crisis.

It has been a little disappointing that over the last couple of years we havent seen more civil unrest, impaling of bankers heads on stakes etc.. I wonder if that is about to change in Greece...

Afterall, people may accept responsibility for their own debts but they are less keen to have to repay to foreign banks huge debts accumulated by their grossly incompetent Government. They can probably even accept some modest cutbacks imposed by the new Socialist Government but when the EU turns around and tries to impose a serious austerity package (not that it will do much good), I suspect they will decide that depression and EU political hegemony is not a price they are willing to pay.

The Leftists in Greece refer to the Euro as a 'banker's ramp.'

Edited February 1, 2010 by Abrak

[flying]

It has been a little disappointing that over the last couple of years we havent seen more civil unrest, impaling of bankers heads on stakes etc.. I wonder if that is about to change in Greece...

Afterall, people may accept responsibility for their own debts but they are less keen to have to repay to foreign banks huge debts accumulated by their grossly incompetent Government.

If....& that is a big IF....BS Bernanke & cohorts ever have to come clean with where the money went & why ...You may see the same in the US of A

[Abrak]

If....& that is a big IF....BS Bernanke & cohorts ever have to come clean with where the money went & why ...You may see the same in the US of A

Well not the way I see it.

You see in the US when everyone comes clean then Bernanke will simply inflate away everyones debt including the government's.

In Greece if and that is a big IF, the euro is maintained they have no option but to deflate (and hence increase their debts.) You will have less income, less assets, the same debt, more taxes and more payments for recapitalizing banks. You may end up losing your house, your TV and the car. In fact the only new car on the road will belong to a banker.