Financial Crisis

[midas]

I don't really follow the media so I really couldn't say, but I'd guess not. What the Do do is throw a LOT of money at lobbying efforts and funding of organizations, centers and PAC's that are in a position to guide policy , recommend/demand appointments and shape public opinion. Nothing wrong with that from either country as the law allows it, though I wish it didn't. The fault lies with those who would allow their power, influence and votes to be bought.

And let us not forget their other clever psychological trick which worked wonders for them in the past.

Just reverse the argument and always make THEM ( those who cannot be named ) the vicitms !

Even if you simply raised a question( i.e. you didnt even have to be critical as such ) - just simply

ask a pertinent question such as who owns the Fed and you would immediately be branded as anti- semetic

This has happened to me on TV

Thanks to the internet this wall of silence is slowly coming down

Edited June 10, 2010 by midas

[lannarebirth]

I don't really follow the media so I really couldn't say, but I'd guess not. What the Do do is throw a LOT of money at lobbying efforts and funding of organizations, centers and PAC's that are in a position to guide policy , recommend/demand appointments and shape public opinion. Nothing wrong with that from either country as the law allows it, though I wish it didn't. The fault lies with those who would allow their power, influence and votes to be bought.

And let us not forget their other clever psychological trick which worked wonders for them in the past.

Just reverse the argument and always make THEM ( those who cannot be named ) the vicitms !

Even if you simply raised a question( i.e. you didnt even have to be critical as such ) - just simply

ask a pertinent question such as who owns the Fed and you would immediately be branded as anti- semetic

This has happened to me on TV

Thanks to the internet this wall of silence is slowly coming down

Though I'm not a Zionist, I'm not a jew hater like you seem to be. I'm aware of the victimhood ploy and how it has been used by just about every interest group at one time or another. The day the US sinks so low as to invoke the "victim card", will be the day I revoke my citizenship. Hey, speaking of Jews, Arabs, money and bought politicians and national security interests, why do you think Citigroup got such a sweet bailout package? That's all I have to say on this matter.

Edited June 10, 2010 by lannarebirth

[midas]

I don't really follow the media so I really couldn't say, but I'd guess not. What the Do do is throw a LOT of money at lobbying efforts and funding of organizations, centers and PAC's that are in a position to guide policy , recommend/demand appointments and shape public opinion. Nothing wrong with that from either country as the law allows it, though I wish it didn't. The fault lies with those who would allow their power, influence and votes to be bought.

And let us not forget their other clever psychological trick which worked wonders for them in the past.

Just reverse the argument and always make THEM ( those who cannot be named ) the vicitms !

Even if you simply raised a question( i.e. you didnt even have to be critical as such ) - just simply

ask a pertinent question such as who owns the Fed and you would immediately be branded as anti- semetic

This has happened to me on TV

Thanks to the internet this wall of silence is slowly coming down

Though I'm not a Zionist, I'm not a jew hater like you seem to be. I'm aware of the victimhood ploy and how it has been used by just about every interest group at one time or another. The day the US sinks so low as to invoke the "victim card", will be the day I revoke my citizenship. Hey, speaking of Jews, Arabs, money and bought politicians and national security interests, why do you think Citigroup got such a sweet bailout package? That's all I have to say on this matter.

That is not fair Lanna !

I have never used the word hate and this is nowhere near the same as perpetually expressing my frustration that

a lot of innocent people are suffering because of a small group of people - and yes as well as Gaza i include

the bankers who own the Fed that have caused so much misery in USA as well.

i have the right to question and shout enough is enough !

[flying]

Israel is not a signatory to the NPT (non-proliferation treaty). neither are India and Pakistan (countries which have gone to war with each other 3½ times). these countries are free to enrich Uranium, produce Plutonium and build as many nukes as they want. Iran is entitled to enrich Uranium but inspite of this entitlement sanctions are passed. these are undeniable facts.

Thanks I did not know those facts. Makes it all the more incredible & hard to swallow.

It seems these entitlements are only good if you know the secret handshake?

[midas]

Though I'm not a Zionist, I'm not a jew hater like you seem to be. I'm aware of the victimhood ploy and how it has been used by just about every interest group at one time or another.

You dont have to be either but i think you have a mind that questions - just like most

of us who read this thread. So please tell me why the world has allowed the harsh

treatment of the people of Gaza because of " security fears " from rockets when that was a blatant LIE and

we did NOTHING about it ?

" Israel has eased its regime for food imports to Gaza, allowing foods like a range of herbs, biscuits, jam, potato crisps, packaged hummus and canned fruits which had been banned from entering the territory from Israel for three years."

Rockets made from jam and herbs ?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-eases-blockade-by-letting-in-extra-food-items-1996142.html

Edited June 10, 2010 by midas

[flying]

Though I'm not a Zionist, I'm not a jew hater like you seem to be. I'm aware of the victimhood ploy and how it has been used by just about every interest group at one time or another. The day the US sinks so low as to invoke the "victim card", will be the day I revoke my citizenship. Hey, speaking of Jews, Arabs, money and bought politicians and national security interests, why do you think Citigroup got such a sweet bailout package? That's all I have to say on this matter.

That is not fair Lanna !

I have never used the word hate and this is nowhere near the same as perpetually expressing my frustration that

a lot of innocent people are suffering because of a small group of people - and yes as well as Gaza i include

the bankers who own the Fed that have caused so much misery in USA as well.

i have the right to question and shout enough is enough !

See now that is a very good example of this.........LB I respect your posts & you seem very level headed... Yet why would you call Midas basically a Jew Hater?

I grew up in a real melting pot of an area & never knew racial problems.

In fact while growing up when we were already teens is the first time we actually heard a black slur & had to ask my dad what it was.

Why cant Midas be upset with something that is obviously lopsided/ wrong in his opinion? How does that make him a Jew Hater?

Is anyone who views Palestine in teh wrong automatically some other religion hater?

Why does Jew hater enter any conversation about the transgressions of the country Israel?

I really dont get that at all.

Wrong is wrong regardless of race/color/religion

Edited June 10, 2010 by flying

[midas]

Though I'm not a Zionist, I'm not a jew hater like you seem to be. I'm aware of the victimhood ploy and how it has been used by just about every interest group at one time or another. The day the US sinks so low as to invoke the "victim card", will be the day I revoke my citizenship. Hey, speaking of Jews, Arabs, money and bought politicians and national security interests, why do you think Citigroup got such a sweet bailout package? That's all I have to say on this matter.

That is not fair Lanna !

I have never used the word hate and this is nowhere near the same as perpetually expressing my frustration that

a lot of innocent people are suffering because of a small group of people - and yes as well as Gaza i include

the bankers who own the Fed that have caused so much misery in USA as well.

i have the right to question and shout enough is enough !

See now that is a very good example of this.........LB I respect your posts & you seem very level headed... Yet why would you call Midas basically a Jew Hater?

I grew up in a real melting pot of an area & never knew racial problems.

In fact while growing up when we were already teens is the first time we actually heard a black slur & had to ask my dad what it was.

Why cant Midas be upset with something that is obviously lopsided/ wrong in his opinion? How does that make him a Jew Hater?

Is anyone who views Palestine in teh wrong automatically some other religion hater?

Why does Jew hater enter any conversation about the transgressions of the country Israel?

I really dont get that at all.

Wrong is wrong regardless of race/color/religion

Thanks flying. As a huge animal lover, I don’t hate any living being.

What I do hate is injustice and cruelty.

Like you I greatly respect Lanna and his postings – particularly the less obvious articles he provided in the early part of this thread.

And you are right- this response is a ” case in point “ as to how simple questions ( it doesn’t even have to be an argument ! ) are turned into something else ? And it ALWAYS happens to me when I raise the question of ownership of THE FED !!

Because of this I have been convinced for a long time that if we keep firing enough of these questions which do have a " common thread " – we would ultimately discover the “Mother lode “ of information that would answer many of our questions

regarding the real cause of this Financial Crisis.

[badge]

I don't really follow the media so I really couldn't say, but I'd guess not. What the Do do is throw a LOT of money at lobbying efforts and funding of organizations, centers and PAC's that are in a position to guide policy , recommend/demand appointments and shape public opinion. Nothing wrong with that from either country as the law allows it, though I wish it didn't. The fault lies with those who would allow their power, influence and votes to be bought.

And let us not forget their other clever psychological trick which worked wonders for them in the past.

Just reverse the argument and always make THEM ( those who cannot be named ) the vicitms !

Even if you simply raised a question( i.e. you didnt even have to be critical as such ) - just simply

ask a pertinent question such as who owns the Fed and you would immediately be branded as anti- semetic

This has happened to me on TV

Thanks to the internet this wall of silence is slowly coming down

Though I'm not a Zionist, I'm not a jew hater like you seem to be. I'm aware of the victimhood ploy and how it has been used by just about every interest group at one time or another. The day the US sinks so low as to invoke the "victim card", will be the day I revoke my citizenship. Hey, speaking of Jews, Arabs, money and bought politicians and national security interests, why do you think Citigroup got such a sweet bailout package? That's all I have to say on this matter.

That is not fair Lanna !

I have never used the word hate and this is nowhere near the same as perpetually expressing my frustration that

a lot of innocent people are suffering because of a small group of people - and yes as well as Gaza i include

the bankers who own the Fed that have caused so much misery in USA as well.

i have the right to question and shout enough is enough !

Id like to echo that Lanna, but its certainly not exclusive to Midas.

I dont understand how 'Israeli', is automatically assumed as 'all jewish people'?

You dont 'have' to use 'the word hate' Midas.

Out of interest, do I recall correctly that your Australian? This might go some way in explaining your position; Australia has a very chequered past regarding 'foreigners'. Or perhaps your one of the many Lebanese or middle-eastern Aussies, in which case maybe youve had first hand 'Romper Stomper' experience?

Back to the conspirices then

[midas]

Id like to echo that Lanna, but its certainly not exclusive to Midas.

I dont understand how 'Israeli', is automatically assumed as 'all jewish people'?

You dont 'have' to use 'the word hate' Midas.

Out of interest, do I recall correctly that your Australian? This might go some way in explaining your position; Australia has a very chequered past regarding 'foreigners'. Or perhaps your one of the many Lebanese or middle-eastern Aussies, in which case maybe youve had first hand 'Romper Stomper' experience?

Back to the conspirices then

And equally badge I don’t understand how asking questions , is automatically assumed as = hate of 'all jewish people?

Yes I am Australian and British also and pure Caucasian.

Now then badge, at the risk of being called a jew hater………can you please tell me exactly who owns the Federal Reserve of USA and why wont they allow a full and unrestricted audit ?

[Naam]

Israel is not a signatory to the NPT (non-proliferation treaty). neither are India and Pakistan (countries which have gone to war with each other 3½ times). these countries are free to enrich Uranium, produce Plutonium and build as many nukes as they want. Iran is entitled to enrich Uranium but inspite of this entitlement sanctions are passed. these are undeniable facts.

Thanks I did not know those facts. Makes it all the more incredible & hard to swallow. It seems these entitlements are only good if you know the secret handshake?

BINGO! and these entitlements apply to individuals too. i have half a dozen very dear long time jewish friends and asked them many times to teach me that secret handshake. but they bluntly refuse and divert from the topic by asking our maid to bring another bottle of Port or sometimes another bottle of Black Label.

[Naam]

" Israel has eased its regime for food imports to Gaza, allowing foods like a range of herbs, biscuits, jam, potato crisps, packaged hummus and canned fruits which had been banned from entering the territory from Israel for three years."

Rockets made from jam and herbs ?

Hamas has excellent scientists!

[midas]

" Israel has eased its regime for food imports to Gaza, allowing foods like a range of herbs, biscuits, jam, potato crisps, packaged hummus and canned fruits which had been banned from entering the territory from Israel for three years."

Rockets made from jam and herbs ?

Hamas has excellent scientists!

Or somebody saw a list of herbs and saw the name " Herb - Salad Rocket "

and so " they who cant be named " said we are not allowing any of that Rocket in Gaza

[Naam]

And equally badge I don’t understand how asking questions , is automatically assumed as = hate of 'all jewish people? Yes I am Australian and British also and pure Caucasian.

Now then badge, at the risk of being called a jew hater………can you please tell me exactly who owns the Federal Reserve of USA and why wont they allow a full and unrestricted audit ?

your lack of knowledge is disappointing Midas! even low level insiders know that the FED is jointly owned by Waleed bin-Talal al-Saud, Mahmoud Abdul-Rahim bin-Maktoum, Khalifa bin Zayed al-Nahyan and the Wahhabi Ulema which controls all actions of the FED from Makkah al-Muharram. as a cover-up they hired a few figure heads with jewish names

[BlackJack]

In 1919 you could buy an ounce of gold, valued at $20 at the time, with 170 German marks. Germany kept printing money to pay their debts and to keep money in circulation, but food prices, clothing prices, housing prices all started climbing. Inflation started to soar. If you go forward to November 30, 1923-about four-and-a-half years later- to buy that same ounce of gold took to 87 trillion marks.

So fast forward to today and the FC and so will we see gold go higher a run away from the Euro?

We live in interesting times

[midas]

And equally badge I dont understand how asking questions , is automatically assumed as = hate of 'all jewish people? Yes I am Australian and British also and pure Caucasian.

Now then badge, at the risk of being called a jew hater………can you please tell me exactly who owns the Federal Reserve of USA and why wont they allow a full and unrestricted audit ?

your lack of knowledge is disappointing Midas! even low level insiders know that the FED is jointly owned by Waleed bin-Talal al-Saud, Mahmoud Abdul-Rahim bin-Maktoum, Khalifa bin Zayed al-Nahyan and the Wahhabi Ulema which controls all actions of the FED from Makkah al-Muharram. as a cover-up they hired a few figure heads with jewish names

So this is why Ben Bernanke with that beard can so easily wear a keffiyeh on his head and pas off for a Talal al-Saud any day

Edited June 10, 2010 by midas

[seeker2]

The clock is ticking, western economies with crash along with there money, its just a matter of time. Europe in bankrupt and so is the US. The US has been bankrupt since the civil war and then again in 1932. Enjoy your funny money while it lasts.

[lannarebirth]

The clock is ticking, western economies with crash along with there money, its just a matter of time. Europe in bankrupt and so is the US. The US has been bankrupt since the civil war and then again in 1932. Enjoy your funny money while it lasts.

You don't happen to own a bakery by any chance, do you?

[jcon]

The clock is ticking, western economies with crash along with there money, its just a matter of time. Europe in bankrupt and so is the US. The US has been bankrupt since the civil war and then again in 1932. Enjoy your funny money while it lasts.

aka "The clock is ticking, life will end, its just a matter of time. Grampa John died and Aunty Edma died also. You have been dying since the day you were born, and there were some problems in life along the way. Enjoy your life while it lasts."

Is that all? So basically:

We live, we die. Enjoy everything else in between. Make sure you can protect yourself and your loved ones in a worst-case scenario. If such a scenario ever occurs, some will make it and some will not.

My money is on the people with assets, intellectual, physical, or otherwise, as it has been since the dawn of man. Evolution (revolution, apocalypse, fat lady singing, skittles-crapping unicorns, choose your metaphor) - bring it on. Winners win and losers lose. Yeah yeah sometimes winners lose and losers win, but if one is going to base one's whole life philosophy on outliers then good luck and have fun in your mother's basement (or in basement-dweller's terms: May The Force be with you. In other words, no you cannot put your penis into the TV and ''do it'' with a female alien, and yes it's called Life, some people have them).

Meanwhile I'll keep my eye out for cheap bakeries and the boogey man.

edit: Forgot to advise the currency whingers. It's scientifically proven that a currency's strength is directly proportional to it's participants' mastubatory behaviours. Thais have been masturbating well, hence the strength in the THB. Brits and members of the Euro have not been masturbating enough, clearly. Increase masturbation and soon enough you can get to 75THB per GBP. Then you can move on from the wet dream and come to Thailand where those GBPs will pay for somebody else to masturbate you. Rinse, repeat. It's scientific fact. I promise, as I read it on the internet.

Edited June 10, 2010 by jcon

[12DrinkMore]

edit: Forgot to advise the currency whingers. It's scientifically proven that a currency's strength is directly proportional to it's participants' mastubatory behaviours. Thais have been masturbating well, hence the strength in the THB. Brits and members of the Euro have not been masturbating enough, clearly. Increase masturbation and soon enough you can get to 75THB per GBP. Then you can move on from the wet dream and come to Thailand where those GBPs will pay for somebody else to masturbate you. Rinse, repeat. It's scientific fact. I promise, as I read it on the internet.

Sounds like something Naam would post. But that's just an observation, nothing more...

In the odd moments when my overworked cranium starts wondering about stuff, I sometimes come across questions that I do not know the answer to. Well, in fact, quite often. Mostly with a bit of effort and the internet I can find an answer. But today I was meandering around and have a couple of questions that maybe somebody around here can shed some light onto?

1. When I transfer Squibs across to Thailand, say GBP 1,000 then these appear in my account at the SCB as THB 40,000 if I am lucky. Now how is this all balanced out? The GBP 1,000 disappears out of the UK with a flooop, whooshes down some electronic channel with a fizzzz and then PLOP in go the THB's at the SCB. So the UK is minus 1,000 eQuids and Thailand has conjured up 40,000 eBahts in my account. So what happened to the eGBP's? Have they simply fizzled out of existence? Surely there must be some means of balancing out the eGBP's and the eTHB's across nations? Are there are whole bunch of eCurrency accounts at the BoT which then head off to the BIS in Basel?

2. What was the second question? <deleted>, gone straight out of my head. No matter, we are still resourceful and the beer level has not reached to the eyebrows yet. So, the USD is the reserve currency. The closest competitor, the EUR, seems for now to be well out of favour. And the Squib? Well, after Brown's term in power it looks like the Squib is going to compete with the EUR in round after round of mutual devaluations.

As an aside I wonder what those other guys in Basel, the IMF crowd, will do to the SDR basket this year. The Chinese want to have the Yuan included, but if the Yuan is simply a proxy for the the USD, then maybe they should just kick out the GBP, JPY and EUR and have 1 SDR=1 USD? Might lessen the confusion. But anyway, whether the SDR is really worth discussing I don't know. Maybe it's just another of those academic concepts that enables a bunch of guys to feel important and earn massive salaries and have lots of free trips, or rather expense remunerated tax payer paid trips.

Where was I going? Right, there is some considerable talk about the USD tanking. I do not understand how this could happen. Mr Triffin has already stated the case, so how could the US single sidedly devalue? The world's trade is conducted in USD's, the majority of the World's currencies are pegged to it in some way or another. Surely the USD is the baseline? Try and change it and everything moves in step, so the status quo remains. And, in spite of Timmy rushing around asking the Chinese to let the Yuan appreciate, maybe the current situation is just hunky dory for the Great US of A? With the assistance of the rating agencies and the actions of GS&Co the EUR has been demoted, so the US has surely secured buyers for its UST's for the next few years? Which, in the midst of this crisis, when all Western countries are trying to compete for funding, is surely the goal?

3. Ah yes, back to the original question 2. Now when the French and German banks lend money to the profligate southerners by buying worthless government bonds, are they able to fractionally reserve these loans or must they have the readies on hand and in the vaults? So it is real money that is being used and not thin air type stuff?

[Gambles]

Though I'm not a Zionist, I'm not a jew hater like you seem to be. I'm aware of the victimhood ploy and how it has been used by just about every interest group at one time or another. The day the US sinks so low as to invoke the "victim card", will be the day I revoke my citizenship. Hey, speaking of Jews, Arabs, money and bought politicians and national security interests, why do you think Citigroup got such a sweet bailout package? That's all I have to say on this matter.

That is not fair Lanna !

I have never used the word hate and this is nowhere near the same as perpetually expressing my frustration that

a lot of innocent people are suffering because of a small group of people - and yes as well as Gaza i include

the bankers who own the Fed that have caused so much misery in USA as well.

i have the right to question and shout enough is enough !

See now that is a very good example of this.........LB I respect your posts & you seem very level headed... Yet why would you call Midas basically a Jew Hater?

I grew up in a real melting pot of an area & never knew racial problems.

In fact while growing up when we were already teens is the first time we actually heard a black slur & had to ask my dad what it was.

Why cant Midas be upset with something that is obviously lopsided/ wrong in his opinion? How does that make him a Jew Hater?

Is anyone who views Palestine in teh wrong automatically some other religion hater?

Why does Jew hater enter any conversation about the transgressions of the country Israel?

I really dont get that at all.

Wrong is wrong regardless of race/color/religion

Thanks flying. As a huge animal lover, I don't hate any living being.

What I do hate is injustice and cruelty.

Like you I greatly respect Lanna and his postings – particularly the less obvious articles he provided in the early part of this thread.

And you are right- this response is a " case in point " as to how simple questions ( it doesn't even have to be an argument ! ) are turned into something else ? And it ALWAYS happens to me when I raise the question of ownership of THE FED !!

Because of this I have been convinced for a long time that if we keep firing enough of these questions which do have a " common thread " – we would ultimately discover the "Mother lode " of information that would answer many of our questions

regarding the real cause of this Financial Crisis.

The minute that people, for whatever reason, cease to speak out against injustice and cruelty then we're finished as a race.

It's a very emotive topic and personally I feel the attitude that if you're not 100% for me then you're against me seems to be a dominant factor in deep-rooted conflicts like the Middle East and until/unless we find a way to get away from that then I think that it becomes much harder to achieve any kind of peaceful reconciliation. Wrong is indeed wrong and I believe that Midas was rightly motivated purely by a sense of injustice and was not simply using that as an excuse to couch justifications - I don't actually detect any hatred whatsoever in his postings.

[Gambles]

The clock is ticking, western economies with crash along with there money, its just a matter of time. Europe in bankrupt and so is the US. The US has been bankrupt since the civil war and then again in 1932. Enjoy your funny money while it lasts.

From memory, US repaid its entire national debt on more than on occasion in the 19th century including post civil war. Its sovereign finances were actually strong until the creation of The Fed.......it's been a roller-coaster ride ever since. Not that I'm claiming 100% causality between those facts.....

[Gambles]

edit: Forgot to advise the currency whingers. It's scientifically proven that a currency's strength is directly proportional to it's participants' mastubatory behaviours. Thais have been masturbating well, hence the strength in the THB. Brits and members of the Euro have not been masturbating enough, clearly. Increase masturbation and soon enough you can get to 75THB per GBP. Then you can move on from the wet dream and come to Thailand where those GBPs will pay for somebody else to masturbate you. Rinse, repeat. It's scientific fact. I promise, as I read it on the internet.

Sounds like something Naam would post. But that's just an observation, nothing more...

In the odd moments when my overworked cranium starts wondering about stuff, I sometimes come across questions that I do not know the answer to. Well, in fact, quite often. Mostly with a bit of effort and the internet I can find an answer. But today I was meandering around and have a couple of questions that maybe somebody around here can shed some light onto?

1. When I transfer Squibs across to Thailand, say GBP 1,000 then these appear in my account at the SCB as THB 40,000 if I am lucky. Now how is this all balanced out? The GBP 1,000 disappears out of the UK with a flooop, whooshes down some electronic channel with a fizzzz and then PLOP in go the THB's at the SCB. So the UK is minus 1,000 eQuids and Thailand has conjured up 40,000 eBahts in my account. So what happened to the eGBP's? Have they simply fizzled out of existence? Surely there must be some means of balancing out the eGBP's and the eTHB's across nations? Are there are whole bunch of eCurrency accounts at the BoT which then head off to the BIS in Basel?

2. What was the second question? <deleted>, gone straight out of my head. No matter, we are still resourceful and the beer level has not reached to the eyebrows yet. So, the USD is the reserve currency. The closest competitor, the EUR, seems for now to be well out of favour. And the Squib? Well, after Brown's term in power it looks like the Squib is going to compete with the EUR in round after round of mutual devaluations.

As an aside I wonder what those other guys in Basel, the IMF crowd, will do to the SDR basket this year. The Chinese want to have the Yuan included, but if the Yuan is simply a proxy for the the USD, then maybe they should just kick out the GBP, JPY and EUR and have 1 SDR=1 USD? Might lessen the confusion. But anyway, whether the SDR is really worth discussing I don't know. Maybe it's just another of those academic concepts that enables a bunch of guys to feel important and earn massive salaries and have lots of free trips, or rather expense remunerated tax payer paid trips.

Where was I going? Right, there is some considerable talk about the USD tanking. I do not understand how this could happen. Mr Triffin has already stated the case, so how could the US single sidedly devalue? The world's trade is conducted in USD's, the majority of the World's currencies are pegged to it in some way or another. Surely the USD is the baseline? Try and change it and everything moves in step, so the status quo remains. And, in spite of Timmy rushing around asking the Chinese to let the Yuan appreciate, maybe the current situation is just hunky dory for the Great US of A? With the assistance of the rating agencies and the actions of GS&Co the EUR has been demoted, so the US has surely secured buyers for its UST's for the next few years? Which, in the midst of this crisis, when all Western countries are trying to compete for funding, is surely the goal?

3. Ah yes, back to the original question 2. Now when the French and German banks lend money to the profligate southerners by buying worthless government bonds, are they able to fractionally reserve these loans or must they have the readies on hand and in the vaults? So it is real money that is being used and not thin air type stuff?

1. I've never actually studied this so this is totally off the cuff/off the record and involves a great deal of hearsay; it could be complete tosh and hopefully there are technical experts out there who actually do know a great deal more about this and can confirm or deny - I recently found myself doing a presentation to a room of people about the Baht including an analysis of BoT handling of the '97 crisis and it turned out that one of the audience was a former leading BoT banker from that period - luckily he confirmed that what I was saying was actually correct and potential embarrassment was avoided!

I believe that there is an historic arrangement whereby supposedly BBL operate a mass clearing and settlement facility for all inbound outbound transfers - it would I guess make make sense that there is some kind of gateway because Baht isn't anything like freely convertible and there are limits to the extent of offshore Baht holdings by commercial banks and the Bot Would have to have some process for regulating this. So sending GBP means that at the gateway point the notional conversion takes place and the sterilisation process means that when settlements are completed the BoT ends up absorbing net surpluses onto its own account in its own preferred currency allocations. This would allow the relative illiquidity of Baht to be managed. It also would help to explain why inbound/outbound electronic transfers to/from Thailand are so slow.

2. The history of SDRs is interesting - basically manufactured IMF liquidity that had to be somehow denominated and obviously with the economic effects of 2 world wars weighing heavily on Europe, Dollar had become the primary global currency in the period since 1944. One interesting historic aside (I'll do a piece on this sometime) is that China didn't suffer recession/depression during the 1920s/30s because it was happy to depress the value of its currency (via the silver standard). This may be completely meaningless today but my experience is that Chinese economist are generally much better at knowing and understanding their history than some of their western counterparts.....

3. Bank loans are a part of the liquidity creation process - banks' liabilities that are a multiple of their assets (or as you say whose reserves are a fraction of their loans) are creating liquidity almost from thin air. That is as true for the French and German banks who lend to GIPSIs as it is for domestic mortgage lenders etc - possibly even more so depending on the categorization of these loans - sovereign loans presumably requiring far lower capital set-aside than consumer loans in most jurisdictions.

Don't forget also that AAA sovereign debt is an acceptable balance sheet asset equivalent to cash so, for instance, a couple of years ago a pre-bankrupt GIPSI walks into a German bank that has Eur 275 Mn cash sitting in the vaults and says "I need Eur 275 Million please"..German bank transfers Eur 275 Mn cash and ends up with say Eur 25 Mn of Greek bonds and a Eur 250 Mn term loan on its balance sheet...it then funds the Eur 250 Mn through the markets and it now has that 250 Mn sitting in the vaults to repeat the process with.........One story doing the rounds is that there are German banks who now find themselves over 100X leveraged...bearing in mind their expsoures to GIPSIs and also that I don't believe that German banks have ever properly written down their exposures to US sub-prime, I'd be very nervous about any European banking expsoure right now.If things move quickly against them do we have faith that the EU could quickly rally round to save its banks the way that the Fed/Treasury did? Maybe, unlike America, Europe will be saved from itself by its own bureaucracy?

[Gambles]

Duplicate post deleted

Edited June 10, 2010 by Gambles

[flying]

Where was I going? Right, there is some considerable talk about the USD tanking. I do not understand how this could happen. Mr Triffin has already stated the case, so how could the US single sidedly devalue? The world's trade is conducted in USD's, the majority of the World's currencies are pegged to it in some way or another. Surely the USD is the baseline? Try and change it and everything moves in step, so the status quo remains. And, in spite of Timmy rushing around asking the Chinese to let the Yuan appreciate, maybe the current situation is just hunky dory for the Great US of A? With the assistance of the rating agencies and the actions of GS&Co the EUR has been demoted, so the US has surely secured buyers for its UST's for the next few years? Which, in the midst of this crisis, when all Western countries are trying to compete for funding, is surely the goal?

Timely post ...I just saw this today.....

I see this a lot. People say "the US dollar cannot experience Zimbabwe-style hyperinflation because:

A) it is the global reserve currency, and

B... all US debt is denominated in its own currency."

Other arguments I have seen have to do with low money velocity, which can reverse globally within a couple hours based on fear alone, and the shrinking quantity of "balance sheet money" or credit money. I'll address this second fallacious argument in a later post since it is more involved.

How wrong people are. FOA intuited this back in 1998:

Article continued here...

FOFOA

Edited June 10, 2010 by flying

[flying]

1. I've never actually studied this so this is totally off the cuff/off the record

2. The history of SDRs is interesting

3. Bank loans are a part of the liquidity creation process

All 3 quite interesting....Thanks

(OP snipped to save space..)

[lannarebirth]

[

That is not fair Lanna !

I have never used the word hate and this is nowhere near the same as perpetually expressing my frustration that

a lot of innocent people are suffering because of a small group of people - and yes as well as Gaza i include

the bankers who own the Fed that have caused so much misery in USA as well.

i have the right to question and shout enough is enough !

See now that is a very good example of this.........LB I respect your posts & you seem very level headed... Yet why would you call Midas basically a Jew Hater?

I grew up in a real melting pot of an area & never knew racial problems.

In fact while growing up when we were already teens is the first time we actually heard a black slur & had to ask my dad what it was.

Why cant Midas be upset with something that is obviously lopsided/ wrong in his opinion? How does that make him a Jew Hater?

Is anyone who views Palestine in teh wrong automatically some other religion hater?

Why does Jew hater enter any conversation about the transgressions of the country Israel?

I really dont get that at all.

Wrong is wrong regardless of race/color/religion

Thanks flying. As a huge animal lover, I don't hate any living being.

What I do hate is injustice and cruelty.

Like you I greatly respect Lanna and his postings – particularly the less obvious articles he provided in the early part of this thread.

And you are right- this response is a " case in point " as to how simple questions ( it doesn't even have to be an argument ! ) are turned into something else ? And it ALWAYS happens to me when I raise the question of ownership of THE FED !!

Because of this I have been convinced for a long time that if we keep firing enough of these questions which do have a " common thread " – we would ultimately discover the "Mother lode " of information that would answer many of our questions

regarding the real cause of this Financial Crisis.

The minute that people, for whatever reason, cease to speak out against injustice and cruelty then we're finished as a race.

It's a very emotive topic and personally I feel the attitude that if you're not 100% for me then you're against me seems to be a dominant factor in deep-rooted conflicts like the Middle East and until/unless we find a way to get away from that then I think that it becomes much harder to achieve any kind of peaceful reconciliation. Wrong is indeed wrong and I believe that Midas was rightly motivated purely by a sense of injustice and was not simply using that as an excuse to couch justifications - I don't actually detect any hatred whatsoever in his postings.

It is just the latest post in an ongoing "theme" of his. He seeks the facile argument, the single villian, when in fact there are dozens of global interests that everyday work against the interests of the vast majority of the global population. Psycholologically and in fact we feel helpless to stop events we see as detrimental to ourselves and our society. It is convenient to seek the facile argument but it doesn't get us any closer to the truth or awareness of how we may take action to protect ourselves and others from the ongoing assault on our sensibilities and personal security.

[phomsanuk]

Funny money has been a political tool forever,

The Romans had precious metals as their currency and do you know the term “debase”? The Roman politicians had the brilliant idea that if a coin was 100% pure precious metal, they could slip a little base metal in and, over a couple of hundred years, they went from 100% pure precious metal to almost 0%. That’s where the term “debase” comes from

[phomsanuk]

Funny money has been a political tool forever,

The Romans had precious metals as their currency and do you know the term "debase"? The Roman politicians had the brilliant idea that if a coin was 100% pure precious metal, they could slip a little base metal in and, over a couple of hundred years, they went from 100% pure precious metal to almost 0%. That's where the term "debase" comes from

Having said that some think gold is the solution.

Quotes, Investors and speculators have good reasons to turn to gold in the midst of unorthodox monetary policies and high fiscal deficits. As long as low interest rates and high volatility persist, the markets will expect the curse of inflation - and the continuing high gold price is the sure result. - Hossein Askari and Noureddine Krichene The world's economic expansion since Franklin D Roosevelt took the United States off gold in 1933 does not make it impossible for the world - or an individual country - to return to the gold standard. Just as honesty is practicable and constitutions should be followed, a return to the gold standard is both possible and necessary. - Antal E Fekete

Iwould like to note that the Thai seem to understand the value of gold better than most.

[Abrak]

I have always had obsession with demographics and economies - in that I think that demographics essentially explain at least 50% of economic activity over the medium term. For instance Japan's two decades of lost growth is most easily explained by demographics.

There is a good blog about this.

Super-Economy: Japan's problem is supply, not demand (updated)

By a swedish blogster.

The salient points being....

The importance of the demographic transformation in Japan is even more clear if we include the entire 1990-2007 period.

In non-population adjusted figures, Japan's real GDP grew by 26% in total these years, the lowest in the OECD. In comparison the figures are 63% for the U.S and 44% for the EU.15.

But during this period the U.S saw it's potential labor force (the number of people between 15-65) increase by 23% and the EU.15 by 11%, while Japan had a decrease of 4%.

Between 1990-2007, GDP per working age adult increased by 31.8% in the United States, by 29.6% in EU.15 and by 31.0% in Japan. The figures are nearly identical!

Japan has simply not been growing slower than other advanced countries once we adjust for demographic change.

Actually the EU growth rate is understated in his figures because the inclusion of Germany (whereby the inclusion of E.Germany ranks it so low is something of an aberration.)

Anyway the point is this. Europe and the USA are going Japanese in demographic terms. And when I say 'going Japanese', I mean going Japanese squared in a lot of cases. In other words, Japan's economy has done fine but it has seemed a nightmare because the working population actually fell - by 4% - over 18 years.

Then you can do some back of the fag packed projections going forward and estimate that...

To the year 2050 on an optimistic scenario...

Europe's real growth rate will be 0.5% p.a.

And the USA's growth rate will average 1.7% p.a.

I call this optimistic because I assume the same real per annum GDP growth rate of the last 20 years per worker (namely 30%) combined with the UN demographic stats. Japan's economy has not been great with a 4% decline in working population - you cant expect much out of Europe with a 25% decline.

And the reason this is optimistic is there has been an enormous increase in leverage across the board over the last 20 years which is essentially spending today what you earn tomorrow. What would have been the US or UK's growth rate without the stimulus, how much has growth in the short term been boosted by mortgage equity withdrawals and the decline in savings rates.

I doubt economies will deleverage but they simply cant get a huge boost from increasing leverage. So throwing away the fag packet as being too sophisticated and simply making the assumption that increased leverage boosted growth by about 1.2% p.a. between 1990-2010 I can assume zero real growth per worker going forward and come up with a pessimistic forecast that...

EU growth will average -0.6% real over the next 40 years

While the US will grow real at about 0.4% p.a.

And in reality things could turn out worse. You see you can essentially increase debt forever without increasing leverage, so long as you assume growth in 'nominal' GDP. But it is a non-linear reality if growth is lower, your ability to accumulate debt is lower or negative which reduces your GDP. For instance the EU's 3% deficit limit is based on a growth assumption.

[midas]

It is just the latest post in an ongoing "theme" of his. He seeks the facile argument, the single villian, when in fact there are dozens of global interests that everyday work against the interests of the vast majority of the global population. Psycholologically and in fact we feel helpless to stop events we see as detrimental to ourselves and our society. It is convenient to seek the facile argument but it doesn't get us any closer to the truth or awareness of how we may take action to protect ourselves and others from the ongoing assault on our sensibilities and personal security.

Yes i know there are " dozens of global interests that everyday work against the interests of the vast majority of the global population" but maybe they are not so relevant in the thread named " Financial Crisis " -so lets simply narrow it down considerably and restrict it to asking some very pentetrating questions about the US Financial System ?

But no not even that is allowed

And if you want to call them the single villain that is up to you - but lets face it

is pretty clear now who really controls the purse strings in USA

Edited June 11, 2010 by midas