Financial Crisis

[Naam]

Now you know. You know that those "insurances" are nothing but bullshit. For suckers.

the guarantees are not bullshit as long as they work.

they would be of course nothing but bullshit if "drawn in full", in my view a highly unlikely event.

The Funny thing is the FDIC insurance here is based on or backed by the same thing the currency is..............Faith

Faith that not too many all say at once................Let me off this merry go round... It does not feel like a safe ride anymore

correct!

[geriatrickid]

If the FDIC fails, I think Americans will have bigger problems than that failure.

At this time I do not think the USA will collapse. Nor do I think the sky is falling. Call me a delusional optimist, but alot of good may come out of this. If anyone caught the Congressional hearings into the Madoff scandal (you can get it over the internet) they will have heard that;

1. The alarm was raised about Madoff dating back to 1999.

2. A brief was presented to the SEC on November 7, 2005 by Charles Markopolos

Read it here http://www.scribd.com/full/9134697?access_...1gf08qx0c966i8w

He laid out the ponzi scheme and why it was a fraud.

3. The SEC investigated. However, with only 400 or so auditors many of which are paid a fraction of what private practice auditors are paid, the SEC had neither the bodies, nor the intellectual resources with which to mount a proper investigation.

4. The brokers that sold the Maldoff investments should have known. The concerns were public. They have alot to explain. No different than the fence that sells the stolen goods or the car thief that steals the car for the big guy.

The same people that cut the legs from the SEC are also the same people that control the FDIC. The people elected by the people for the people.

It's easy to say cut government spending. However, when Sen. Stevens the crooked republican was building his bridge to nowehere in Alaska there were plenty of democrats attaching amendments to bills to get money for military bases, and projects in their constituencies. They all did this because that's what the locals wanted. Well, guess what? When they did this, there was nothing left over for things like auditors or proper health care. Again, the people must accept some responsibility for not setting their priorities.

[flying]

If the FDIC fails, I think Americans will have bigger problems than that failure.

Yes I agree

Because sadly if the FDIC is called into service it is too small a bandage.

The FDIC has 1.5% of the savings covered 44 billion in funds to cover 3 trillion in deposits.

So I do not see how the FDIC would not fail if actually called into heavy service.

I guess the FED could say Oh all right hang on while we up the presses to warp 3.

But like you said at that point the problems are much bigger than just the failure

that triggered the call to the FDIC.

I dont really see a Total USA collapse either. I do think there will be a great amount of discomfort & displacement ahead though. I am here & I am seeing it. So I do what I can to prepare in some small ways.

I definitely feel like retracting a bit from this system where & when I can.

Edited January 28, 2009 by flying

[AlexLah]

Now I fully understand why these peeps have their set up in Bermuda.

Expect a few more of these.....

[teatree]

For those of you who think that people are tin foil hat wearing loonies if they believe in FEMA camps:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:h645:

It is the National Emergency Centers Act or H.R. 645 (January 22 2009) and if passed into law, will direct the Secretary of Homeland Security to establish national emergency centers otherwise known as FEMA camp facilities on military installations.

The Obama administration are going to be very busy in the first 100 days or so to cash in on his popularity and ram through unpopular laws.

[flying]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/podcast/?p=epis..._in_history.mp3

[kevkev1888]

Looks like unrest speading

Iceland

Greece

France

Uk

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7857435.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7859968.stm

America?????? Nothing!

[AlexLah]

Joe took the rope and tied it around his bug out bag. He had made his decision, he would walk downtown and find a job or at least try.

The tentcamps were allowed outside the city, about 15 KM so he guessed about a 3 hour walk would do.

After an hour of walking there was a group of people listening to a guy on top of a hil.

From the top of his lungs this guy screamed: The Seventh Seal Has Broken, The Gates Of hel_l Are Open!!!!!!!!!

Joe kept walking but realised the date, it was the 9th of February 2010, exactly a year after another big Wall Street crunch.

Soon after that more money was asked to bail out banks, but nothing helped and finally all hel_l broke loose during the summer, the summer of hel_l it was called.

The sky was beginning to look strange.

Joe finally reached destination and joined a group of people gathered on the street.

There were people chanting, go to hel_l, go to hel_l!

Soon police came and began spraying pepperspray.

RUN, RUN some people screamed, Joe followed the group but did not know that at the end of the street Riot police had been waiting.

Joe kept running into the street while looking behind, he did not have a chance when Riot Police officer Steve selected Joe to become his target.

Joe was pushed to the ground and Steve started hitting his victim with blows to the legs and upper body, with every blow Steve screamed: Die, Die, Die, Die!!

Joe in agonising pain, screaming, pleaseeeeee, aaaaaaaaaahhhhhh.

Steve immensly enjoying the victim screaming only fired him up more, these Vitamine pills they gave him surely kept him sharp, determined and awake, sometimes 72 hours with no sleep. There were not enough officers yet so therefore they could not do 24 hour shifts. This was all OK, he learned to make sacrifices when he joined the Obama Youth Corps.

The last three blows Steve delivered to the side of the head, making sure the victim would be out of conscious for a long time.

The last thing Joe could see where burning bodies, after that it went dark...........

[geriatrickid]

Looks like unrest speading

Iceland Greece France Uk America?????? Nothing!

The difference might just be attributable to the problems existing beforehand in these countries. Greece and its level of corruption make Thailand look angelic. If it wasn't for the benefits of the EU, Greeks would still be plying the streets in donkey carts. Anything that jiggles the house of cards is going to cause a problem. France's public workers have cushy jobs, high pay for limited hours and overly generous benefits. The protests in France are a reaction to the government saying how about you folks get treated like non public sector workers, you know the people that are paying the bloated salaries? The typical Frenchman isn't protesting, it's the same gang of spoilt layabouts that think they know what's best for the people that have to pay for everything. Iceland? Well, it's a rinky dink country that wanted social utopia and came up with rogue capitalist tricks to pay for it. Party's over and they can't spend money they don't have anymore. It's like the child that was getting a hefty allowance when Daddy says, sorry Thor, I can't swindle people in the UK with my bank schemes, so no more allowance. As for the UK, the people protesting are the same people that will turn out for any rally where they can vandalize, and run amok.

The USA has its protests, but the difference is that folks know they are in a jam and that there is a concerted effort to respond. The presence of leadership at the top, even if imperfect goes along way in giving people hope. President Obama is making all the right noises to buy some time. One gets the impression that the Americans have gone back to the FDR approach of trying to help people. Mr. Brown, needs to take a lesson and show some pluck and the old English characteristic of a stiff upper lip, duty etc. England's been through far worse and having a vapourhead at the top sighing isn't helping. I have a lot more faith in the English than some of the English people of TV do. I remain convinced that if it gets worse, the little genetic code for resolve in the English will click on.

[AlexLah]

A simplistic view of life makes people feel comfy, I just wonder what they will do and think when they loose their job and house.

Take care all, I just hope we can survive this BS.

[flying]

http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-Davos20...E50R5MW20090128

China's Wen swipes at U.S. debt binge

[gregb]

Now you know. You know that those "insurances" are nothing but bullshit. For suckers.

the guarantees are not bullshit as long as they work. presently they do work. without the guarantees most of us would be in a quite difficult position. bottom line: not only at introduction the guarantees were an absolute necessity but they are still today and will be for quite time to come. personally i am quite happy to be a sucker as the guarantees provide me with much more flexibility. without the guarantees bank runs, banks collapsing and most probably a global freeze for all kind of financial transactions and shipping (the latter happened partially indeed) would have happened last october.

they would be of course nothing but bullshit if "drawn in full", in my view a highly unlikely event.

This is a valid statement Naam, and in fact historically I would agree with you. The problem is this is the same logic used by people pushing CDO's. It wasn't possible for a systemic failure to cause them all to go bad at the same time, was it? But it did, and lack of confidence killed the ones that weren't in trouble. So while promises do work today, for how much longer will it work? And are we wise to believe them when the timeframe for collapse is so unclear?

The guarantees are just a delay tactic, and I think it is important everyone remember that. Once confidence goes, the government will be forced to close banks and freeze withdrawls. They will never make good on this the way people assume. The fact that people continue to make promises during this crisis that they know they can't execute is a big part of the problem. Let's just lie and hope the whole thing will go away. It won't. When things really go south, and they will, your account will simply be frozen until your friend the government can figure out a way to get out of this promise that won't start a riot.

So I guess I agree with you Naam. "Drawn in full" is extremely unlikely to ever happen. But that doesn't mean the promise itself is worth anything. And I for one would rather just have honesty than the continued deceit which just delays the inevitable. Let things crash now and let the chips fall where they may.

At least then we could start over with something that works for the era we're in now. What we need right now is clarity and honesty. Not more trickery and deceit.

[12DrinkMore]

I am still very angry and more than ready to kill

Brown "Savour of the Universe" somehow is allowed to inflict his words of wisdom on the rest of the world.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/finance...ial-system.html

(don't bother following the link, its a waste of time)

"We have a global financial system, but until now no global co-ordination or supervision, only national supervisors," he said, speaking on the fringes of the World Economic Forum in Davos. We need to reform and strengthen international institutions, giving them power and resources to invest at a global level"

What is he blathering on about? This <deleted>, who has failed miserably to oversee the british financial system over the last decade, now thinks he is qualified to talk about international finances? He can't even run the Labour party successfully, they had to have a bail out last year.

Anybody want to vote for Brown, "Chancellor of the World"? Oh dear god, spare us.

[Naam]

So I guess I agree with you Naam. "Drawn in full" is extremely unlikely to ever happen. But that doesn't mean the promise itself is worth anything. And I for one would rather just have honesty than the continued deceit which just delays the inevitable. Let things crash now and let the chips fall where they may.

At least then we could start over with something that works for the era we're in now. What we need right now is clarity and honesty. Not more trickery and deceit.

*****

i wish i could agree with you Greg but there's no way, not even for a similar common denominator. if honesty and clarity was introduced presently the result would be disastrous for each and everybody, rich and poor. sometimes lies and bullshitting have positive sides (as they do now in my [not so] humble view). with lies and bullshitting precious time can be bought which is necessary to prepare and meet disaster.

would we be better off with a global freeze which was near imminent middle of october last year? starting over with something that works is a good idea, BUT has anybody a plan that would work? are their any geniuses who can work out a feasible plan which -most important- would be adopted and implemented by G8 plus another dozen economical important countries?

"hat doesn't mean the promise itself is worth anything" history proved that sometimes promises (even empty ones) can work. Germany's hyper-inflation of the 1920s was stopped overnight when the "Rentenmark" (backed by future social insurance contributions) was introduced. before introduction one US-Dollar fetched 4 trillion Reichsmark, a situation similar to nowadays Zimbabwe. a day later four Rentenmarks were paid for one dollar.

[flying]

The guarantees are just a delay tactic, and I think it is important everyone remember that. When things really go south, and they will, your account will simply be frozen until your friend the government can figure out a way to get out of this promise that won't start a riot.

I am still very angry and more than ready to kill

with lies and bullshitting precious time can be bought which is necessary to prepare and meet disaster.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:h645:

Yes I see more & more how they prepare. So I do too.

I am getting the feeling this mess is divided in two.

There are those like Gregb, 12DrinkMore & many more & Those like Naam & many more like him too.

I am not saying one is realistic more than the other or even one is more sane than the other. But I can see the division & I see it here too. On the web I see it in other countries.

Those that have enough of course will be willing to wait. Those that have their feet to flame are not willing. Classic those that have & those not so much that have not but have been ripped off by the crisis as they were sadly unprepared for what happened.

I agree 100% with your statement Naam I listed above. I see it 100% that way here now. Sadly so does many others. I am afraid the direction they are taking is mainly this one the lies & BS to buy time because in reality it is the only one they have.

Before you call me doom & gloom please trust me when I say I am not.

This is just what I am seeing here. I think it is a big mistake.

Edited January 31, 2009 by flying

[Naam]

The guarantees are just a delay tactic, and I think it is important everyone remember that. When things really go south, and they will, your account will simply be frozen until your friend the government can figure out a way to get out of this promise that won't start a riot.

I am still very angry and more than ready to kill

with lies and bullshitting precious time can be bought which is necessary to prepare and meet disaster.

I agree 100% with your statement Naam I listed above. I see it 100% that way here now. Sadly so does many others. I am afraid the direction they are taking is mainly this one the lies & BS to buy time because in reality it is the only one they have.

Flying, that is only one point where i differ from you Greg and others as i am convinced that we face a few extremely difficult years and after that it'll be business as usual. but whatever the outcome is i would like (as i did several times before) to ask the goldbugs for an outline of the future how they see it from their perspective. let's assume all accounts are frozen, nobody has access to cash or any other negotiable proceeds in the banks, the "bugs" have stashed their gold at home, Mrs Bug has to do some shopping and fill up the empty tank of her car, Mr Bug's television broke down and he needs a technician to repair it. what's the procedure? Mrs Bug will pay at the service station with Krügerrands? and in Publix, Winn Dixie or Tesco with Maple Leaves? the chap that repaired the TV will be happy with a few gold flakes chafed off a gold bar because he fixed the TV with his srewdriver?

if all these questions can be answered with a "yes"... so far so good. but what about the overwhelming majority of people which do not own any gold? will they silently starve to death with the sigh "i wish i had.."? how can a barter trade 'goods and services for gold' be sustained when all available physical gold on this planet cannot even match a miniscule quantity of goods and services in demand? will that problem be solved by creating fictitious gold by means of derivatives and we start all over again where we left?

opinions please!

[flying]

Flying, that is only one point where i differ from you Greg and others as i am convinced that we face a few extremely difficult years and after that it'll be business as usual. but whatever the outcome is i would like (as i did several times before) to ask the goldbugs for an outline of the future how they see it from their perspective. let's assume all accounts are frozen, nobody has access to cash or any other negotiable proceeds in the banks, the "bugs" have stashed their gold at home, Mrs Bug has to do some shopping and fill up the empty tank of her car, Mr Bug's television broke down and he needs a technician to repair it. what's the procedure? Mrs Bug will pay at the service station with Krügerrands? and in Publix, Winn Dixie or Tesco with Maple Leaves? the chap that repaired the TV will be happy with a few gold flakes chafed off a gold bar because he fixed the TV with his srewdriver?

if all these questions can be answered with a "yes"... so far so good. but what about the overwhelming majority of people which do not own any gold? will they silently starve to death with the sigh "i wish i had.."? how can a barter trade 'goods and services for gold' be sustained when all available physical gold on this planet cannot even match a miniscule quantity of goods and services in demand? will that problem be solved by creating fictitious gold by means of derivatives and we start all over again where we left?

opinions please!

Beats the heck out of me Naam

Like I said many times before I invest 20% of my liquid in PM's meaning both AU & AG

Whether or not some day that is used as it always historically was for money remains to be seen. I buy PM's because like I said before I lack a better idea at this time.

But I do wonder about the scenarios you mention & have also like you wondered what would be the outcome or how it would work.

But in your version as well as others you folks only see one extreme case.

A complete & utter break down where metals are the only thing, Then at the same time you & others compare that scenario with what is now daily type tasks like filling a tank of gas or fixing a TV

That is very odd to me & not a scenario I consider at all. If it comes to that point bullets have much more value than any money.

But one scenario that I have wondered about is a very very quick decline in the worth of certain currencies. A decline so fast there would be little to no time to change up & out of the toxic currency. Now in *That* scenario I could see it might be beneficial to be spread out a bit ahead of time. Whether that be other currencies or metals or diamonds or whatever is up to the holder I guess.

As for the folks that have none well as usual they will take what the Govt who owned their currency of choice will give them right?

Let us look at a micro example in the pound now..... Do the holders have a choice when converting to Baht? Or do they take what they are given grumble a bit & carry on? In the scenario I am wondering about it is similar to that.

Lets face it there is a very high chance that somehow Fiat currency will survive I am not denying it. But I do have some alternative for the decrease in value that will surely follow this mess.

Lastly folks always use that example of......Well ....what will you do give a Krugerrand for a bag of food? No of course not but then again folks are mixing a total collapse in with reasonable requests. In a total collapse what makes anyone think there is a bag of food to buy in a orderly fashion?

Forget that stuff there is no point in us even looking at that picture as it involves one simple old rule....The strong will survive the rest will not.

But for almost all the other scenarios ....ones that involve the devaluation of fiat currency I think or I should say I wonder if PM's will not once again for the 1000th time resume its place as a measure of value.

Who knows eh? All we can do is wonder about scenarios & try to at least prepare for the ones we can. Or not...........freedom of choice is still free to all

[Naam]

But for almost all the other scenarios ....ones that involve the devaluation of fiat currency I think or I should say I wonder if PM's will not once again for the 1000th time resume its place as a measure of value.

that is impossible due to the fact that a sufficient volume of precious metals does not exist. i do not rule out the possibility that precious metals will fetch fancy sums of fiat money and i do not rule out that the value of fiat money might tremendously decline vs. goods and services. what i rule out by logic and applying some simple maths that precious metals can be used as a monetary replacement serving a population of (soon) 7 billion people.

[flying]

But for almost all the other scenarios ....ones that involve the devaluation of fiat currency I think or I should say I wonder if PM's will not once again for the 1000th time resume its place as a measure of value.

that is impossible due to the fact that a sufficient volume of precious metals does not exist. i do not rule out the possibility that precious metals will fetch fancy sums of fiat money and i do not rule out that the value of fiat money might tremendously decline vs. goods and services. what i rule out by logic and applying some simple maths that precious metals can be used as a monetary replacement serving a population of (soon) 7 billion people.

We really do think ............or wonder I should say

Quite differently.

I never consider like I said a complete replacement just a revalue after the fiat value drops.

Then again lets look at your example.................Why not if they again use gold & silver? Who said every dollar now is valid? Are they not wiping toxic debts off their books?

Also 2 other choices.......

1) Gold value is very high

2) size is reduced to grams or grains?

But then again like I said in my examples I said Fiat would probably survive but there will be a revaluation of gold obviously if fiat continues to lose value.

Seems to me historically it always went to metals like silver & gold. Then to paper for ease of carry & trade..............Then lastly the governments once again grab & manipulate that paper to the place it is now. Nothing backing it properly

Too Much paper as you said

Who said it has to stay that way? If paper gets to where it is worth less & less there are no guarantees metals will follow it down.

Again this is just me wondering

PS: You said.............

what i rule out by logic and applying some simple maths that precious metals can be used as a monetary replacement serving a population of (soon) 7 billion people.

That is not to say you couldn't have a paper system that was just backed once again by metals.

Edited February 1, 2009 by flying

[flying]

PSS: Here is a interesting version

http://www.nolanchart.com/article1147.html

I meant to include it above.

It is a competing currency of sorts.

It is a interesting idea.

Edited February 1, 2009 by flying

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

flying...

Near as I have been able to discover the US has a controversial 264 million troy ounces of gold.

At 1$ per gram (480 grams to ounce) you would have only 107,712,000,000 total dollars for the US. That certainly would not last long.

Info from Wikipedia US bullion reserves.

[flying]

flying...

Near as I have been able to discover the US has a controversial 264 million troy ounces of gold.

At 1$ per gram (480 grams to ounce) you would have only 107,712,000,000 total dollars for the US. That certainly would not last long.

Info from Wikipedia US bullion reserves.

Yes it is like I said just me wondering about scenarios.

That one I posted............

http://www.nolanchart.com/article1147.html

I thought that was pretty inovative having two competeing currencies here.

Also we can include Silver no problem.

[samuibeachcomber]

Looks like unrest speading

Iceland Greece France Uk America?????? Nothing!

The difference might just be attributable to the problems existing beforehand in these countries. Greece and its level of corruption make Thailand look angelic. If it wasn't for the benefits of the EU, Greeks would still be plying the streets in donkey carts. Anything that jiggles the house of cards is going to cause a problem. France's public workers have cushy jobs, high pay for limited hours and overly generous benefits. The protests in France are a reaction to the government saying how about you folks get treated like non public sector workers, you know the people that are paying the bloated salaries? The typical Frenchman isn't protesting, it's the same gang of spoilt layabouts that think they know what's best for the people that have to pay for everything. Iceland? Well, it's a rinky dink country that wanted social utopia and came up with rogue capitalist tricks to pay for it. Party's over and they can't spend money they don't have anymore. It's like the child that was getting a hefty allowance when Daddy says, sorry Thor, I can't swindle people in the UK with my bank schemes, so no more allowance. As for the UK, the people protesting are the same people that will turn out for any rally where they can vandalize, and run amok.

The USA has its protests, but the difference is that folks know they are in a jam and that there is a concerted effort to respond. The presence of leadership at the top, even if imperfect goes along way in giving people hope. President Obama is making all the right noises to buy some time. One gets the impression that the Americans have gone back to the FDR approach of trying to help people. Mr. Brown, needs to take a lesson and show some pluck and the old English characteristic of a stiff upper lip, duty etc. England's been through far worse and having a vapourhead at the top sighing isn't helping. I have a lot more faith in the English than some of the English people of TV do. I remain convinced that if it gets worse, the little genetic code for resolve in the English will click on.

I like your sentiment re the english fighting spirit but i fear its long dead and gone.the britain today does not resemble the britain of 50 years ago.during this time the population has been softened up with welfare handouts,excessive immigration that has but destroyed that comunity spirit you speak of.the fatted calf has arrived in the form bought votes from a top heavy public sevice with job security and bloated pensions.the family unit has been destroyed with easy divorce laws,where loyalties once the domain of the family unit are now given to the gang culture.the english language is almost unrecognisable in the young of today with sms speak,the continual use of foul language now considered the norm.and lastly the seemingly right of everone to slag off at anyone they choose.anyone with a brain and the means to do so have already fled the country.all that remains are those without the means to do so,and those that are still able to suck from the pigs trough.Its my opinion that the politicians days are numbered,the civil servants may strike too when they realise they too will lose jobs and will lose their pie in the sky pensions. racial tensions(easily flamed and blamed by economic hardships)to could escalate.in other words i think it is all too late.the people have no one to look up to(in the second WW they had a royalty that shared their pain)look at the royalty today who could anyone name just one royal person that they can respect(rampant divorce)that still has a voice for truth and respect.

[Naam]

flying...

Near as I have been able to discover the US has a controversial 264 million troy ounces of gold.

At 1$ per gram (480 grams to ounce) you would have only 107,712,000,000 total dollars for the US. That certainly would not last long.

Info from Wikipedia US bullion reserves.

ahem... cough... cough... actually it would be much less BTD because an ounce has only 31.1034768 grams.

[Naam]

PS: You said.............

what i rule out by logic and applying some simple maths that precious metals can be used as a monetary replacement serving a population of (soon) 7 billion people.

That is not to say you couldn't have a paper system that was just backed once again by metals.

your idea is good Flying but we are running in circles and getting nowhere. there are not enough precious metals physically in existence to back all the paper and book currency which is globally essential. there is also another problem. presently more book money is traded than is in existence and the same goes for any commodity be it crude, grains, pork bellies, orange juice or timber. by decree book money could be outlawed but how can the value of these commodities be backed if not by fictitious fiat money?

[flying]

flying...

Near as I have been able to discover the US has a controversial 264 million troy ounces of gold.

At 1$ per gram (480 grams to ounce) you would have only 107,712,000,000 total dollars for the US. That certainly would not last long.

Info from Wikipedia US bullion reserves.

ahem... cough... cough... actually it would be much less BTD because an ounce has only 31.1034768 grams.

1 ounce = 437.5 grain

I think it was just a spelling error

[Naam]

flying...

Near as I have been able to discover the US has a controversial 264 million troy ounces of gold.

At 1$ per gram (480 grams to ounce) you would have only 107,712,000,000 total dollars for the US. That certainly would not last long.

Info from Wikipedia US bullion reserves.

ahem... cough... cough... actually it would be much less BTD because an ounce has only 31.1034768 grams.

1 ounce = 437.5 grain I think it was just a spelling error

if BTD meant grains then he was right because there are 480 grains to one troy ounce. he only missed the boat pricewise.

Edited February 1, 2009 by Naam

[flying]

there are not enough precious metals physically in existence to back all the paper and book currency which is globally essential.

Explain?

Is it because you are saying nothing would need re-valuing ?

I mean we cannot help it that the powers that be screwed the pooch.

Just because they have possibly inflated the paper beyond comparison to anything does not mean it cannot fail & be forced into a reboot.

All that aside though... did you think that article had any possibility?

Just curious

http://www.nolanchart.com/article1147.html

Edited February 1, 2009 by flying

[flying]

1 ounce = 437.5 grain I think it was just a spelling error

if BTD meant grains then he was right because there are 480 grains to one troy ounce.

I see

Remember I told you I am a re-loader?

That is why I think in terms of 7000 grains to the pound & 437/oz

I see now Troy ounce

[samuibeachcomber]

PS: You said.............

what i rule out by logic and applying some simple maths that precious metals can be used as a monetary replacement serving a population of (soon) 7 billion people.

That is not to say you couldn't have a paper system that was just backed once again by metals.

your idea is good Flying but we are running in circles and getting nowhere. there are not enough precious metals physically in existence to back all the paper and book currency which is globally essential. there is also another problem. presently more book money is traded than is in existence and the same goes for any commodity be it crude, grains, pork bellies, orange juice or timber. by decree book money could be outlawed but how can the value of these commodities be backed if not by fictitious fiat money?

surely this is the whole point,backing the money in circulation by gold would mean less "thin air" money around,and we could go back to more sustainable living,what do we need to sustain a good life but some shelter i.e. a home,good health,a job to provide food and some comforts.