Financial Crisis

[12DrinkMore]

Experts Try to Chart Path for Exit From Currency

http://online.wsj.co...8.html?mod=e2tw

I've had enough experts. They seem to be crawling out from everywhere.

Mr Wolff is heading in the right direction

"In the short term, everyone would be suffering," Mr. Wolff says.

Except that they are suffering now, and will continue to do so for a very long time. Bit of a joke, really, when you hear all these ideas of an exit from the EUR coupled with a 40% devaluation will then lead to a "New Prosperity".

No it bloody won't.

They are all utterly delusional.

Greece is economically essentially a third world country tacked onto mainland Europe. They are looking at turning the clock back 30 years or more.

If they continue with the current anti-German sentiment, then no Germans will be taking a holiday or investing there. Just ain't worth the bother. Lots of other places to go.

"Zorba" nailed it.

Edited May 17, 2012 by 12DrinkMore

[12DrinkMore]

Is this accelerating down the very slippery slope?

http://www.telegraph...ares-Spain.html

Moody's slashed the ratings of 16 Spanish banks on Thursday evening, citing the reduced ability of the Spanish government to provide support to the sector, as well as the "adverse operating conditions" characterised by a renewed recession.

The rating agency also downgraded Santander UK, although, at "A2," it is still rated one notch above its parent bank Banco Santander. Moody's highlighted that Santander UK has "no direct exposure to the Spanish government (or regional governments)".

Earlier in the day, shares in Bankia, the country’s fourth biggest bank, plunged by as much as 29pc amid reports that depositors had pulled out €1bn in the past week.

Madrid was then forced to pay 50pc more than in March to drum up interest in a €2.5bn (£2bn) bond. By then end of the day, borrowing costs for benchmark 10-year sovereign debt in Spain rose 2 basis points to 6.21pc, while gilts and German bunds dropped to fresh lows of 1.834pc and 1.41pc respectively. Britain’s debt management office was swamped with record demand for a 'safe haven’ £1.5bn gilt auction.

As pandemonium struck Spain, Fitch slashed Greece’s credit rating deeper into junk, from B- to CCC, to “reflect the heightened risk that [it] may not be able to sustain membership of the monetary union” and warned that all eurozone members would be at risk of a downgrade if Greece exited.

And so on.

Marvellous to see those two institutions, who gave all those AAAAAA++++ ratings away, enabling all the banks to ramp up the debt pile even more, now reducing ratings faster than the ink dries on the paper.

Now back from changing the UK's nappies, the UK-Leader is making demands. What is a crunch talk, maybe "cookies and coffee"?

David Cameron also demanded urgent action by Europe’s leaders for closer integration to spare the world economy from disaster ahead of crunch talks at the G8 meeting today in Camp David.

With the odds on Greece leaving the euro shortening, economists warned a messy exit could cost the eurozone up to $1trillion (£630bn). Even the International Monetary Fund could be at risk of losing its bail-out contributions.

Fabrice Montagne at Barclays Capital said: “Even though the IMF prides itself on never having made any losses on a programme, a Greek exit would certainly challenge this record.”

So what on earth is that trillion going to be spent on? I guess propping up asset prices again to keep those banking profits flowing. What a waste.

Nationalise all the Eurobanks who are insolvent. Which I suppose means all of them. Sort out who owes who what. Create a national bank in each country to take deposits and take over the commercial and private loans. And put the rest into a Big Bad Bank, which can then be allowed to wander into the future as the biggest mother of all Zombie Banks.

We simply cannot afford to have the finance sector dictating terms and sending the world's economy into a death spiral. The bastards have to be sorted out now.

Just give me the job. I'll fix'em. I can do that.

Edited May 18, 2012 by 12DrinkMore

[churchill]

Jump leads needed ......

China's towering metal stockpiles cast economic shadow

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/18/us-china-commodities-idUSBRE84H09E20120518

Forget Greece, China Biggest Risk to Global Economy: Faber

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47472497?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[churchill]

Strippers in Paris Go on Strike, Say Wages 'Miserable'

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47457154?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[churchill]

Hol-la-lande! French cabinet shows who wears the pants

http://rt.com/news/new-cabinet-hollande-france-542/

[12DrinkMore]

Hol-la-lande! French cabinet shows who wears the pants

http://rt.com/news/n...nde-france-542/

I am in favour of many more women in politics.

On the whole they are more long term oriented, have more empathy and are more likely to arrive at better decisions than the testosterone blinded males that lead the world into conflicts and crises.

[12DrinkMore]

Here come the Irish, again.

http://www.telegraph...nd-bailout.html

As households struggle to pay their mortgages, the country’s rescued banks may need €4bn (£3.2bn) more to cover losses on loans than was assumed in stress tests last year, said analysts at Deutsche Bank.

That would hit the finances of the Irish government, which has already pumped about €63bn into its banking sector in the last three years.

“A new, even modest, increase in [banks’] capital requirements could deter sovereign investor participation and tip the balance in favour of the sovereign requiring a second loan program,” said the Deutsche team.

I am fed up with this shit.

The Irish have paid the dam banks enough, the whole <deleted> WORLD has paid the dam_n banks enough.

“A new, even modest, increase in [banks’] capital requirements could deter sovereign investor participation and tip the balance in favour of the sovereign requiring a second loan program,”

What a sentence.

How nice, "even modest", "could deter", "investor participation", "tip the balance".

Note this is coming from the bankers. The "Deutsche team".

Well, fuc_k 'em.

The fate of the world's population should not be decided by the bankers collecting on their greed.

Unfortunately today words have lost their meaning.

I'll take this one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greed

"Greed is the inordinate desire to possess wealth, goods, or objects of abstract value with the intention to keep it for one's self, far beyond the dictates of basic survival and comfort. It is applied to a markedly high desire for and pursuit of wealth, status, and power."

These bastards are wholly uninterested in the life of Joe Worker, they are only interested in how far they can put him into debt and penury. And it doesn't even matter if the debt can't be paid on the personal level, oh no, they will kill off the sovereign state that Joe lives in and then go higher, and kill off the next level.

We simply can't have the bankers suffering a loss, now, can we?

Just line them up against the wall. I'll deal with the issue.

[12DrinkMore]

Here's another <deleted> who fails to understand economics.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/9274100/UK-may-need-more-QE-warns-Bank-of-Englands-Adam-Posen-as-he-steps-down-from-the-MPC.html

Mr Posen said he now thinks that the weakness of the economy reflected in official data may be genuine. Previously he believed the underlying economy was in better shape than suggested by the Office for National Statistics, which last month revealed Britain fell back into recession in the first quarter.

He also admitted he got his short-term inflation forecasts wrong, having expected it to fall faster than it has.

So he didn't believe the official figures. So one has to ask, what figures did he believe? Maybe the tea leaves in his cup? Or perhaps he was taking a holiday in Thailand?

And his "short term inflation" figures were wrong as well?

What a surprise, they have missed the target for several years now.

But anyway, its all bullshit.

What can the MPC do anyway?

Essentially very little. They can play around with the interest rates, which have been at zero for years and likely to remain so for eternity. The Japanese disease is here to stay.

Or they can buy a few more billion Osborne Bonds through a strange system imposed by the banks, so that the banks take a cut of the bonds before Merv can get his hands on them and then store them away for eternity on the perpetually expanding BoE balance sheet, with a periodic roll over, of course. This essentially monetises the UK government debt, although I guess nobody will admit to it, and keeps the interest rates well under where the "Market" would have them otherwise.

I will be submitting my CV asap

The Treasury said it would advertise the vacancy for a new external MPC member – which attracts a salary of £101,362 plus 30pc in lieu of pension – “as soon as possible”.

As I'm sure my contributions to Thai Visa will qualify me for the job.

I'll let you all know when I've been accepted.

[churchill]

Jump leads needed ......

China's towering metal stockpiles cast economic shadow

http://www.reuters.c...E84H09E20120518

Forget Greece, China Biggest Risk to Global Economy: Faber

http://www.cnbc.com/..._medium=twitter

There seem to be more mutterings of China .....

Chinese buyers default on coal, iron ore shipments-trade

http://af.reuters.com/article/metalsNews/idAFL4E8GL1BS20120521

No Guarantee

http://chovanec.wordpress.com/2012/05/19/no-guarantee/

[Naam]

Honourable Prime Minister, Esq.

there was a time when you posted your opinions. now you limit yourself to mere copying&pasting and perhaps a sentence with a question mark?

what happened?

[churchill]

Honourable Prime Minister, Esq.

there was a time when you posted your opinions. now you limit yourself to mere copying&pasting and perhaps a sentence with a question mark?

what happened?

Not sure at all ... Very confused ..

A year ago it seemed a mess .. but we knew what to expect . more qe

Now it is still a mess .. but more qe is generally not accepted as the answer

Where is the growth coming from especially if China is , as it seems , now having problems .

Edited May 21, 2012 by churchill

[midas]

Honourable Prime Minister, Esq.

there was a time when you posted your opinions. now you limit yourself to mere copying&pasting and perhaps a sentence with a question mark?

what happened?

Not sure at all ... Very confused ..

A year ago it seemed a mess .. but we knew what to expect . more qe

Now it is still a mess .. but more qe is generally not accepted as the answer

Where is the growth coming from especially if China is , as it seems , now having problems .

I heard one theory that The Bernank will finally succumb to QE around November

with another rally on the DJ just-in-time for Obama to be re-elected on the back of

an exploding stock market. Oh no this means zorro might come back

[12DrinkMore]

A year ago it seemed a mess .. but we knew what to expect . more qe

Now it is still a mess .. but more qe is generally not accepted as the answer

QE will continue, there is no other play left.

Don't worry, they'll all get around to the idea sooner or later.

The Japanese have been through 20 years with no end in sight.

The West has only just embarked on the New Age of Debt Monetisation.

[midas]

A year ago it seemed a mess .. but we knew what to expect . more qe

Now it is still a mess .. but more qe is generally not accepted as the answer

QE will continue, there is no other play left.

Don't worry, they'll all get around to the idea sooner or later.

The Japanese have been through 20 years with no end in sight.

The West has only just embarked on the New Age of Debt Monetisation.

Yup....

I think contributing to this thread is the new " normal " world

it's going to go on and on

[ace]

Where is the growth coming from especially if China is , as it seems , now having problems .

It makes me laugh when people go on about the Chinese hard landing i mean they're only expected to have 7.5% growth this year

Europe will not see that level of growth in 100 years!

China is rebalancing their economy to a more internally driven model, moderating inflation, deflating a housing bubble in the tier 1, 2 cities and reducing income disparity over a 5 year + period. This is a known fact. This necessitates a moderation in growth.

Maybe i watch the idiots on bloomberg too much they just seem totally brainless.

Sent from my A500 using Thaivisa Connect App

[midas]

Where is the growth coming from especially if China is , as it seems , now having problems .

It makes me laugh when people go on about the Chinese hard landing i mean they're only expected to have 7.5% growth this year

Europe will not see that level of growth in 100 years!

China is rebalancing their economy to a more internally driven model, moderating inflation, deflating a housing bubble in the tier 1, 2 cities and reducing income disparity over a 5 year + period. This is a known fact. This necessitates a moderation in growth.

Maybe i watch the idiots on bloomberg too much they just seem totally brainless.

Sent from my A500 using Thaivisa Connect App

they need 8% just to maintain social stability

[Naam]

Where is the growth coming from especially if China is , as it seems , now having problems .

It makes me laugh when people go on about the Chinese hard landing i mean they're only expected to have 7.5% growth this year

Europe will not see that level of growth in 100 years!

China is rebalancing their economy to a more internally driven model, moderating inflation, deflating a housing bubble in the tier 1, 2 cities and reducing income disparity over a 5 year + period. This is a known fact. This necessitates a moderation in growth.

Maybe i watch the idiots on bloomberg too much they just seem totally brainless.

Sent from my A500 using Thaivisa Connect App

they need 8% just to maintain social stability

says who?

[Naam]

A year ago it seemed a mess .. but we knew what to expect . more qe

Now it is still a mess .. but more qe is generally not accepted as the answer

QE will continue, there is no other play left.

Don't worry, they'll all get around to the idea sooner or later.

The Japanese have been through 20 years with no end in sight.

The West has only just embarked on the New Age of Debt Monetisation.

Debt Monetisation

something has to give, we all know that. and judging from many angles monetising of debt in a gradual manner is the best way to go IF it can be achieved. them Nipponese have been trying hard for two decades. result = zero!

[Naam]

Where is the growth coming from especially if China is , as it seems , now having problems .

It makes me laugh when people go on about the Chinese hard landing i mean they're only expected to have 7.5% growth this year

Europe will not see that level of growth in 100 years!

China is rebalancing their economy to a more internally driven model, moderating inflation, deflating a housing bubble in the tier 1, 2 cities and reducing income disparity over a 5 year + period. This is a known fact. This necessitates a moderation in growth.

Maybe i watch the idiots on bloomberg too much they just seem totally brainless.

Sent from my A500 using Thaivisa Connect App

[waza]

Where is the growth coming from especially if China is , as it seems , now having problems .

It makes me laugh when people go on about the Chinese hard landing i mean they're only expected to have 7.5% growth this year

Europe will not see that level of growth in 100 years!

China is rebalancing their economy to a more internally driven model, moderating inflation, deflating a housing bubble in the tier 1, 2 cities and reducing income disparity over a 5 year + period. This is a known fact. This necessitates a moderation in growth.

Maybe i watch the idiots on bloomberg too much they just seem totally brainless.

Sent from my A500 using Thaivisa Connect App

they need 8% just to maintain social stability

says who?

says so here............sort of

[media=]

[/media]

sorry Naam its yoooo tube

Edited May 21, 2012 by waza

[Naam]

Honourable Prime Minister, Esq.

there was a time when you posted your opinions. now you limit yourself to mere copying&pasting and perhaps a sentence with a question mark?

what happened?

Not sure at all ... Very confused ..

A year ago it seemed a mess .. but we knew what to expect . more qe

Now it is still a mess .. but more qe is generally not accepted as the answer

Where is the growth coming from especially if China is , as it seems , now having problems .

i [not so] humbly beg to differ and claim much more quantitative easing and debt monetising is exactly the way to go. and as far as reduced Chinese growth is concerned it is more of a problem for those economies which depend on supplying China with copper, soy beans, iron ore, pork, coal, chicken, rice, wheat and a long list of other commodities (you name them, China imports them) except rare minerals.

i wonder what you mean by "not accepted as an answer". who is going to accept or reject policies and decisions by the G8, respectively G20? a concerted action by you, Midas, 12 and myself?

[churchill]

Perhaps the tide is changing ... Germany is now more isolated ... And I cannot see that her solution of pushing the can and seeming to want to go the Japanese route of a small bail outs just to keep economies afloat ..is the answer

So perhaps now Germany will be forced into more stimulus ...

Germany isolated as Latin Bloc calls the shots

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/9280847/Germany-isolated-as-Latin-Bloc-calls-the-shots.html

and China also is starting to ease ...

and Bernanke wants more QE but feels that his hands are tied by public and political opinion .

I am not sure Much more QE is needed .. but Perhaps it needs to be redirected away from the bankers to some sort of more direct stimulus .I think the problems stem from the inability of politicians both in Europe and the US to put forward a sensible and believable solutions to turn about the economy , to give confidence .. and to revive the housing and job markets .

[churchill]

Europe's Big Fat Greek Heart Attack

A diet can't save them now. Time to get that defibrillator ready.

BY MOHAMED A. EL-ERIAN

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/05/21/my_big_fat_greek_heart_attack?page=0,0

[Naam]

Latin Bloc calls the shots... Germany can amend its constitution...

[12DrinkMore]

I am not too sure how to react to this and what it means

http://www.telegraph...etary-Fund.html

But I suppose it indicates that the UK has reached the stage where they have to kowtow to the IMF. Jeeze, that woman must be a powerful bitch if she can come up with

Christine Lagarde, the managing director of the IMF, said Britain had done well with its programme to cut its budget deficit so far but "unfortunately economic recovery has not taken hold".

And then goes on to give Osborne a little talk on where he should make a few more cuts.

This is a public lecture to Osborne on how to run the UK economy. Jeeze, what's going on here? Sounds like the IMF is talking to some third world country.

"OK guys, so far not too bad, but there is room for improvement". Osborne is probably used to that from his schoolboy days, not so far behind him.

Is the UK about to ask the IMF for a bit of a handout, I ask myself.

And here comes Osborne, that totally uninspiring twit.

"I welcome the IMF's continuing support for the deficit reduction plan," he said.

Mr Osborne said he was pleased that the inflation has hit its lowest point in almost two years.

"This brings welcome relief to families on tight budgets," he said.

He also repeated calls for eurozone countries to take action to shore up the euro.

"Eurozone countries need to stand behind their currency or face up to the prospect of Greek exit," he said.

What a total wally.

He should stop uttering meaningless party bullshit about Europe and get on with his job.

Which is,exactly?

I suppose following the directives of Christine.

That must prick his ego.

Edited May 22, 2012 by 12DrinkMore

[Naam]

What a total wally.

i resent the expression but agree with the meaning

[lannarebirth]

What a total wally.

i resent the expression but agree with the meaning

[waza]

Ok its 5 years into the GFC and theres no end in sight, no rainbow no light, only darkness. We devour every news item, interview and analyse each latest sound bite on the 24 hours news cycle and post our opinions here. Looking for landmarks, roadmaps, any clues that piont the direction and help answer the questions.

Will the future be a slow deflation like cutting slices of salami, or financial armageddon?

Will the full price be paid by those that can least afford it or will social unrest force a re-distribution of wealth?

Will Germany leave the EU cos there just a bunch of sad loosers?

Wheres Wally?

Where can one put their money that is both safe and pays a good return?

Discuss.

Edited May 23, 2012 by waza

[flying]

Where can one put their money that is both safe and pays a good return?

Did any such place ever exist?

As for the crisis....we ain't seen nothing yet.

unless anyone thinks can kicking was something

[waza]

Where can one put their money that is both safe and pays a good return?

Did any such place ever exist?

As for the crisis....we ain't seen nothing yet.

unless anyone thinks can kicking was something

Australian banks were ok but they are dropping the interest rates like slicing a salami and I just sold all my stocks ready for the 3rd wave or is it the 4th. Gold is retreating and real estate prices are deflating.