Financial Crisis

[kblaze]

I respect your response, and I too cull information from as many sources as possible with one thing always in my mind; does the source of information stand to benefit from the impact the information has on the reader? If it does, I tread very very carefully...

[midas]

I respect your response, and I too cull information from as many sources as possible with one thing always in my mind; does the source of information stand to benefit from the impact the information has on the reader? If it does, I tread very very carefully...

Bottom line is ( and sadly), no matter which way you interpret recent events throughout the region it's hard to be optimistic that a major conflict can be avoided ? If Israel doesn't do anything at all how could it possibly overcome the damage to its credibility after all the threats it has made?

Is a Larger Middle East War Inevitable?

An escalation between Syria and Turkey will internationalize the conflict drawing major players into the conflict. The same applies to the violence between Israel and the Islamist Palestinian groups. Finally, all these various elements will have contributed in bringing the situation to a crux just around the time when the United States becomes imbued with the election of its president, on that oh, so fateful date, November 6th, or should it be the Ides of March?

http://oilprice.com/Geopolitics/Middle-East/Is-a-Larger-Middle-East-War-Inevitable.html

[mccw]

"The number of Americans going to the government for assistance has once again hit a new high. More than 46 million Americans are now enrolled in the federal welfare food stamps system, more than double the amount from only a decade earlier."

From RT app so no link.

[Naam]

"The number of Americans going to the government for assistance has once again hit a new high. More than 46 million Americans are now enrolled in the federal welfare food stamps system, more than double the amount from only a decade earlier."

From RT app so no link.

combined with the lack of health insurance, depending only on emergency health services, a depressing situation indeed.

[ajarnpot]

"The number of Americans going to the government for assistance has once again hit a new high. More than 46 million Americans are now enrolled in the federal welfare food stamps system, more than double the amount from only a decade earlier."

From RT app so no link.

I guess this is positiive though, more jobs can be created to issue stamps, produce stamps, .......sounds like its working well

[mccw]

Another step on the glorious road of the fascist EU police state:

"Spains government is drafting a law that bans the photographing and filming of members of the police. The Interior Ministry assures they are not cracking down on freedom of expression, but protecting the lives of law enforcement officers.

The draft legislation follows waves of protests throughout the country against uncompromising austerity cuts to public healthcare and education.

The new Citizen Safety Law will prohibit the capture, reproduction and editing of images, sounds or information of members of the security or armed forces in the line of duty, said the director general of the police, Ignacio Cosido. He added that this new bill seeks to find a balance between the protection of citizens rights and those of security forces.

The dissemination of images and videos over social networks like Facebook will also be punishable under the legislation.

Despite the fact that the new law will cover all images that could pose a risk to the physical safety officers or impede them from executing their duty, the Interior Ministry maintains it will not encroach on freedom of expression.

We are trying to avoid images of police being uploaded onto social networks with threats to them and their families, underlined Cosido.

Violation of freedom of expression?

Spains United Police Syndicate said it considers the implementation of the new legislation very complicated because it does not establish any guidelines over what kinds of images violate the rights of a police officer. The syndicate warned that the ministry will run into legal problems if it does not specify the ins and outs of the law.

"We do not intend to stop the press from doing its job of taking pictures of police charges and other proceedings. But we understand that in anti-terrorist operations or against mafias you have to have a more careful approach when it comes to disseminating images," Interior Minister Jorge Fernandez Diaz said commenting on the issue.

The director of the police also argued that the measures were necessary given the elevated levels of violence against officers in the economic downturn that is undermining the basis of a democratic society.

The anti-austerity protests that have swept Spain over the past year have been punctuated by reports and footage of police brutality. The footage showed that large numbers of Spanish officers did not wear their identification badges during the protests, although the law requires it.

Spanish journalists now worry that the government's proposed measure could have a negative impact on news gathering.

"If this proposal goes ahead, it is going to be impossible to know about events as they occur on the streets just at a time when streets are at boiling point due to the dire economic situation of many families," Angel Casana, a lead writer for the national newspaper El Mundo, said in an online editorial."

Source RT app

Like America, the laws are being changed to take way our freedoms. The end of western democracy unfolding before our eyes?

Patriot act, detention with out trail, EU appointed technocrats , etc etc now this , where will it end

On the other side I hear the ESM and single banking regulator deal has been agrreed in principle apparrently but time line pushed back since the germans wont move ahead without getting the power to veto national budgets! A reasonable ask id say if I'm the German having to pick up the cheque for other countries; but from outside this looks like the banker backed fourth Reich; the octopus ready to squeeze the wealth and squash the decent across the whole western world.

[mccw]

The real US jobs numbers apparently:

"For now, 58.7 per cent of American adults are working if the actual employment-population ratio is taken into consideration, leaving about 82 million, or almost 41 per cent of people unemployed. Only 8 per cent, however, are even interested in work, leaving 33 per cent of Americans not only jobless but with no desire for work." RT app

It goes on

"Republicans on the Senate Budget Committee released findings this week showing that the government spent roughly $1.03 trillion on welfare programs last year, funding 83 separate efforts to provide assistance to Americans. Days earlier, a separate study out of Capitol Hill revealed that the number of people enrolled to receive federal assistance by way of food stamps has hit a new record high with roughly 47 million US residents."

Edited October 19, 2012 by mccw

[yoshiwara]

Another step on the glorious road of the fascist EU police state:

No need to read past that line. In the bin it goes.

[Dr Robert]

to use some Oscar Wilde wisdom...everybody is talking about the weather, but nobody seems to be doing anything about it.

All this conspiracy and doom for what good purpose?

[mccw]

to use some Oscar Wilde wisdom...everybody is talking about the weather, but nobody seems to be doing anything about it.

All this conspiracy and doom for what good purpose?

To see what is happening and think through the implications so I / we can be prepared accordingly.

Take your very good quote: "everybody is talking about the weather, but nobody seems to be doing anything about it." Oscar is absolutely right. All people should do something about it. I am doing something about it- as are many on this forum they have said. It's the likes of toshi that are wasting their time.

On the doing something about weather we could all learn from the Thai King, not his rain making, but in his "sustainable economy" theory. This is fundamentally what the country and the world must adopt sooner or later.

[manarak]

On the doing something about weather we could all learn from the Thai King, not his rain making, but in his "sustainable economy" theory. This is fundamentally what the country and the world must adopt sooner or later.

This makes much more sense than your earlier posts!

I too appreciate many aspects of the HM's economic model.

[yoshiwara]

to use some Oscar Wilde wisdom...everybody is talking about the weather, but nobody seems to be doing anything about it.

All this conspiracy and doom for what good purpose?

It is standard fare on the gold bug websites which flog the idea that buying gold will protect the fearful against the end of the world.

[mccw]

How about this quote from the Austrian Ludwig von Mises ,

"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crises should come to an end sooner as a result of voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved". ?

[manarak]

How about this quote from the Austrian Ludwig von Mises ,

"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crises should come to an end sooner as a result of voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved". ?

yes, during von Mises time, the markets would be concurrential and the inflation/devaluation mechanism would work to adjust the currency's value internationally, resulting in crises or catastrophies.

Today, we have a much different reality of the major world economies hit by the same crisis, meaning they behave much more similarly to a keynesian single world currency, i.e. inflating or devaluating at a similar rate around the globe. This is what will prevent the explosion of the crisis and this is also what will in the end finance it. By inflating and devaluating, the debt holdings lose their value, and at the end currency holders and workers will pay the bill.

[ronz28]

The banks and their accounting firms are doing all they can to get Romney in office with millions of dollars in donations and mega PAC propaganda ads. I was surprised that banking is by far the biggest contributor to Romney's election campaign. Great, taxpayer bank bailout money and profits from repressive depositor interest rates gets spent on excessive bank executive compensation and to buy out Republican politicians. http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/contrib.php?id=N00000286&cycle=2012

[midas]

How about this quote from the Austrian Ludwig von Mises ,

"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crises should come to an end sooner as a result of voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved". ?

yes, during von Mises time, the markets would be concurrential and the inflation/devaluation mechanism would work to adjust the currency's value internationally, resulting in crises or catastrophies.

Today, we have a much different reality of the major world economies hit by the same crisis, meaning they behave much more similarly to a keynesian single world currency, i.e. inflating or devaluating at a similar rate around the globe. This is what will prevent the explosion of the crisis and this is also what will in the end finance it. By inflating and devaluating, the debt holdings lose their value, and at the end currency holders and workers will pay the bill.

[midas]

How about this quote from the Austrian Ludwig von Mises ,

"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crises should come to an end sooner as a result of voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved". ?

yes, during von Mises time, the markets would be concurrential and the inflation/devaluation mechanism would work to adjust the currency's value internationally, resulting in crises or catastrophies.

Today, we have a much different reality of the major world economies hit by the same crisis, meaning they behave much more similarly to a keynesian single world currency, i.e. inflating or devaluating at a similar rate around the globe. This is what will prevent the explosion of the crisis and this is also what will in the end finance it. By inflating and devaluating, the debt holdings lose their value, and at the end currency holders and workers will pay the bill.

But that assumes that '' society ' remains cohesive throughout the extreme hardship that will be imposed upon them? For fewer and fewer workers ( because the jobs are simply not going to be there ) to shoulder that kind of burden alongside a steep decline in social services is unsustainable. For example what happens when there is simply no money left to give food stamps to the 46 million in USA?

Edited October 21, 2012 by midas

[cheeryble]

what happens when there is simply no money left to give food stamps to the 46 million in USA?

Yeah that's going to be tough....

[cheeryble]

This is what will prevent the explosion of the crisis and this is also what will in the end finance it. By inflating and devaluating, the debt holdings lose their value, and at the end currency holders and workers will pay the bill.

You've got it Manarak, that's what happens.

Those holding money or being paid in money will effectively be taxed.

Those with solid holdings or paper based on solid holdings or prices, though they may have to play catch up, will do better.

Edited October 21, 2012 by cheeryble

[mccw]

How about this quote from the Austrian Ludwig von Mises ,

"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crises should come to an end sooner as a result of voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved". ?

yes, during von Mises time, the markets would be concurrential and the inflation/devaluation mechanism would work to adjust the currency's value internationally, resulting in crises or catastrophies.

Today, we have a much different reality of the major world economies hit by the same crisis, meaning they behave much more similarly to a keynesian single world currency, i.e. inflating or devaluating at a similar rate around the globe. This is what will prevent the explosion of the crisis and this is also what will in the end finance it. By inflating and devaluating, the debt holdings lose their value, and at the end currency holders and workers will pay the bill.

The amount of inflation/devaluation required to deal with all the debts (debts which are still growing and growing and growing) will be the "currency catastrophe" Mises talks of. The fact that its global changes nothing other than the magnitude of what is coming. No where to run. Other than gold (i agree with that prediction laid out in the vid link on the gold thread)

Edited October 21, 2012 by mccw

[mccw]

This is what will prevent the explosion of the crisis and this is also what will in the end finance it. By inflating and devaluating, the debt holdings lose their value, and at the end currency holders and workers will pay the bill.

You've got it Manarak, that's what happens.

Those holding money or being paid in money will effectively be taxed.

Those with solid holdings or paper based on solid holdings or prices, though they may have to play catch up, will do better.

Catch up or even profit if lucky.

Land on the former and gold on the latter is my guess but both being better than cash, bond or stocks.

[cheeryble]

Land on the former and gold on the latter is my guess but both being better than cash, bond or stocks.

If you like gold why don't you love gold stocks?

At least they're active and there's some energy going into them creating added value.

[mccw]

Land on the former and gold on the latter is my guess but both being better than cash, bond or stocks.

If you like gold why don't you love gold stocks?

At least they're active and there's some energy going into them creating added value.

Could you please elaborate?

[cheeryble]

If you like gold why don't you love gold stocks?

At least they're active and there's some energy going into them creating added value.

Could to please elaborate

Yes.....

Gold is the ultimate passive investment. It may of course go up as it may go down, but it is dead.

When you own gold stock you own not only gold reserves you get value added by the energy the company puts in to add value.

Doing excellent prospecting adds value. Cultivating political allegiances may bring value. Buying drill zones strategically brings value if successful. Running efficient mines adds value. Even speculation such as hedging may bring value (though that practise has caused big problems).

Naturally if you are a true gold nut you will realise gold stocks leverage up any rise in gold (disclaimer: you will be equally whacked if gold drops.

Be aware of something.

I was the representative of a group of British investors who were following a couple of companies in America some time ago. I had to sign confidentiality agreements and went to the fields and the labs. These companies were experimenting with new methods of extraction of gold.

Do you know that many ores only yield a proportion of the gold they hold? Much remains microencapsulated in insoluble particles. Do I know that gold doesn't behave like gold unless there are a certain number of atoms in the lattice?

Do you realise what will happen to the price of gold if this ever gets cracked?

This may be a very long shot but one of the companies involved got up to a nine-figure capitalization. I shared information with and scouted for Flemings and Hoare and Co, hardly nutcases, who were also investors.

Just saying........maybe gold ain't 100% immune!

(ps you'll be glad to hear that though I didn't make my fortune, and I mean a fortune, I did by being on phone call to the chairman terms decide some big results whose price was partially built in were going to disappoint and got my money out.....even with a small profit)

Edited October 21, 2012 by cheeryble

[mccw]

If you like gold why don't you love gold stocks?

At least they're active and there's some energy going into them creating added value.

Could to please elaborate

Do you know that many ores only yield a proportion of the gold they hold? Much remains microencapsulated in insoluble particles. Do I know that gold doesn't behave like gold unless there are a certain number of atoms in the lattice?

Do you realise what will happen to the price of gold if this ever gets cracked?

This may be a very long shot but one of the companies involved got up to a nine-figure capitalization. I shared information with and scouted for Flemings and Hoare and Co, hardly nutcases, who were also investors.

Just saying........maybe gold ain't 100% immune!

How much extra supply would this technique actually produce if cracked? Double? Triple? If there was a global currency collapse I'd think the demand would more than eat through all of the extra supply unless truly a flood of 100s of time the amount. Would gold producers want to devalue what they were selling so much? I expect the technology wouldn't produce such huge amounts extra but please tell me your projections.

Then of course the timing of such technology could be before, during or after the event.

I see what you mean about stocks, how they might add value and how they might boom even more, but the reason I won't invest is because I think the coming storm could be so servers that there is risk that the companies I would have to invest through may cease to exist. Also with the added value there are other added risks; under such extreme events I could easily imagine the nations of the world forcibly nationalising the mines and such.

Edited October 21, 2012 by mccw

[mccw]

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/archive/2012/February/Pages/CatastrophicSolarFlareScenarioTouchesOffStormyDebate.aspx

[cheeryble]

....... the reason I won't invest is because I think the coming storm could be so servers that there is risk that the companies I would have to invest through may cease to exist. Also with the added value there are other added risks; under such extreme events I could easily imagine the nations of the world forcibly nationalising the mines and such.

Have you thought of moving to Mt Athos?.....it's beautiful, they're largely self sufficient and it sounds a real trip, I'm sure they'd do well after the collapse.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=mt+athos&hl=en&client=safari&tbo=d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=0TeEUKPPIInUrQfq6ICwCQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=644#biv=i|111;d|xp5n2kvZboCFHM:

[mccw]

http://www.businessinsider.com/europes-next-big-crisis-democracy-2012-10/in-contrast-the-eus-critics-usually-say-democracy-is-the-eus-biggest-enemy-2

[yoshiwara]

How about this quote from the Austrian Ludwig von Mises ,

"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crises should come to an end sooner as a result of voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved". ?

yes, during von Mises time, the markets would be concurrential and the inflation/devaluation mechanism would work to adjust the currency's value internationally, resulting in crises or catastrophies.

Today, we have a much different reality of the major world economies hit by the same crisis, meaning they behave much more similarly to a keynesian single world currency, i.e. inflating or devaluating at a similar rate around the globe. This is what will prevent the explosion of the crisis and this is also what will in the end finance it. By inflating and devaluating, the debt holdings lose their value, and at the end currency holders and workers will pay the bill.

The amount of inflation/devaluation required to deal with all the debts (debts which are still growing and growing and growing) will be the "currency catastrophe" Mises talks of. The fact that its global changes nothing other than the magnitude of what is coming. No where to run. Other than gold (i agree with that prediction laid out in the vid link on the gold thread)

Well fancy that!

[Naam]

the threads "financial crisis" and "gold" should be merged. the essence of both is that gold is the only defense against global Armageddon when the apocalyptic riders attack.

sniffing gold dust will cure the plague and cholera, a good sized hollow gold bar will provide shelter against rain, heat and cold, munching a small gold coin will satisfy hunger, thieves and armed robbers will shy away from gold, owning gold is better than sex... and last not least no taxman can lay his greedy hand on gold (because gold possesses intrinsic immunity)