Financial Crisis

[churchill]

Perhaps a bit upmarket for a Patisserie ...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-07/spain-said-to-consider-palace-sales-to-raise-cash.html

[mccw]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/philip-aldrick/9663920/Hu-calls-on-China-to-develop-domestic-economy.html

[midas]

Perhaps a bit upmarket for a Patisserie ...

http://www.bloomberg...raise-cash.html

//

Edited November 9, 2012 by midas

[midas]

http://www.telegraph...ic-economy.html

good luck with that one

Chinese people squirrel away 40 percent of their income, despite making, on average, less than a tenth of U.S. per capita income. The Chinese believe the fickle hand of fate can turn against them at any time. And there’s virtually no safety net.

http://shanghaiist.c..._twelve_fac.php

[mccw]

http://www.telegraph...ic-economy.html

good luck with that one

Chinese people squirrel away 40 percent of their income, despite making, on average, less than a tenth of U.S. per capita income. The Chinese believe the fickle hand of fate can turn against them at any time. And there’s virtually no safety net.

http://shanghaiist.c..._twelve_fac.php

That is why I think China and SE Asia generally have much more potential for growth, or at least less painfully evolving, than western countries burdened by welfare state, regulation, tax and culture of dependancy. The individual largely isn't over burdened by debt nor are the governments. Although Shinwatras seem desperate to turn all that around should be quite some time until Thailand is in as big a mess as US and EU.

[mccw]

Yesterday announced no QE in UK

But now .......

"Treasury Gets £35bn Windfall From QE Interest

Last Updated 20:01 09/11/2012

The Treasury is to receive a £35bn boost as part of a deal with the Bank of England that will effectively reduce public debt.

Chancellor George Osborne and Bank Governor Sir Mervyn King have agreed that the BoE will give the Treasury interest earned through its £375bn economy-boosting programme known as quantitative easing (QE).

The cash - currently on the BoE's books - will flatter the public accounts by reducing the budget deficit, while also acting as a "small loosening of monetary conditions" equivalent to taking more QE action, according to the Bank.

The announcement comes a day after it decided not to extend QE at its monthly policy-setting meeting.

The Treasury said the agreement was in line with similar practices surrounding QE in the United States and Japan.

In a letter to Mr Osborne, Sir Mervyn stressed the cash transferred to the Government would likely need to be paid back to the Bank in the future.

The move comes at an apt time for Mr Osborne as he faces pressure on his plans to cut borrowing.

But JP Morgan Chase economist Malcolm Barr said it was "still likely" that the Chancellor will need to push back debt reduction targets in his upcoming autumn statement.

Shadow chief secretary to the Treasury Rachel Reeves said it was a "smoke and mirrors" deal.

"Instead of changing course and taking action to create the jobs and growth we need to get the deficit down. The Chancellor seems to think he can just be bailed out in the short term by money from the Bank of England," she added.

Under the arrangement, £11bn is expected to be handed to the Treasury this year, with the remaining £24bn paid in four instalments over the next financial year." - sky news app

!<deleted> is that all about?

Interest Earned by gov (thought QE was money created by the bank and loaned to the government rather than the other way around) , will be paid by the BoE to gov, but will "probably need to be paid back to the bank later".

Sounds like they're just making it up as they go along now.

I wonder- is there an account at the BoE which will be 35Billion£ lighter or is this Off balance sheet QE / pure money creation without the debt?

[mccw]

Protests over crime, corruption and inflation in Argentina and ..... "Inflation also upsets many. The government's much-criticised index puts inflation at about 10% annually, but private economists say prices are rising about three times faster than that.

Property transactions have slowed to a standstill because of the difficulty in estimating future values, and unions that won 25% pay hikes only a few months ago are threatening to strike again unless the government comes up with more." Sky news app

A more honest reporting of inflation when media talks about developing countries but truth be told Essentials inflation in many developed countries is running in the region of 10-20%.

Edited November 9, 2012 by mccw

[midas]

After all that has happened over the last four years the choice of whether to keep physical gold in your possession versus entrusting your money to third parties and in particular government officials should be a no-brainer"

Well my money's on gold as the true safety.

I think government bonds are anomalies since the sovereign risk, the systemic risk is what's attempting to be hedged but then the very risk is also the hedge itself , so it looks fairly ridiculas to me. I suppose central banks can maintain demand for thier government bonds by buying them all up themselves? What % of total is this now compared to 1-5 or 10 years ago? How far/ long can that go on for?

investigators looking into an unauthorized billion-dollar trade at Rochdale Securities LLC are homing in on how such an unusually large "buy" order could have made it through the firm's clearing process, according to people familiar with the investigations of regulators and other authorities into the matter.

What Rochdale has called unauthorized trading in shares of Apple Inc. (AAPL) on Oct. 25 led to a loss of several millions of dollars, one of the people with knowledge of the investigations said. The brokerage listed $3.4 million in capital in a 2011 filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Talks to recapitalize the firm were continuing as of Friday, the people familiar with the trading probes said.

http://www.nasdaq.co...87#.UJ46sGdvA_M

Edited November 10, 2012 by midas

[mccw]

RT - "Organizers of the Stop Eviction march called for immediate action by Madrid to end foreclosures, blaming the suicide on Spain's economic hardship. Demonstrators shouted slogans such as ''No eviction unanswered,'' and ''Banker, remember we have rope.''

It is estimated that more than 400,000 families have lost their homes due to unpaid rents since the start of Spain's financial crisis in 2007."

'Banker, remember we have rope.''!

[midas]

RT - "Organizers of the Stop Eviction march called for immediate action by Madrid to end foreclosures, blaming the suicide on Spain's economic hardship. Demonstrators shouted slogans such as ''No eviction unanswered,'' and ''Banker, remember we have rope.''

It is estimated that more than 400,000 families have lost their homes due to unpaid rents since the start of Spain's financial crisis in 2007."

'Banker, remember we have rope.''!

Maybe they will have to introduce two generation loans like they had in Japan although the way things are going if the second-generation can't get a job either maybe it'll have to be stretched to 3 generations .

The premier yesterday said he wants to agree on a plan with the opposition Socialist Party that will encourage banks to renegotiate loans and find ways for families to stay in their homes, according to the e-mailed text of his remarks

http://www.bloomberg...ng-suicide.html

Edited November 11, 2012 by midas

[mccw]

Yesterday announced no QE in UK

But now .......

"Treasury Gets £35bn Windfall From QE Interest

Last Updated 20:01 09/11/2012

The Treasury is to receive a £35bn boost as part of a deal with the Bank of England that will effectively reduce public debt.

Chancellor George Osborne and Bank Governor Sir Mervyn King have agreed that the BoE will give the Treasury interest earned through its £375bn economy-boosting programme known as quantitative easing (QE).

The cash - currently on the BoE's books - will flatter the public accounts by reducing the budget deficit, while also acting as a "small loosening of monetary conditions" equivalent to taking more QE action, according to the Bank.

The announcement comes a day after it decided not to extend QE at its monthly policy-setting meeting.

The Treasury said the agreement was in line with similar practices surrounding QE in the United States and Japan.

In a letter to Mr Osborne, Sir Mervyn stressed the cash transferred to the Government would likely need to be paid back to the Bank in the future.

The move comes at an apt time for Mr Osborne as he faces pressure on his plans to cut borrowing.

But JP Morgan Chase economist Malcolm Barr said it was "still likely" that the Chancellor will need to push back debt reduction targets in his upcoming autumn statement.

Shadow chief secretary to the Treasury Rachel Reeves said it was a "smoke and mirrors" deal.

"Instead of changing course and taking action to create the jobs and growth we need to get the deficit down. The Chancellor seems to think he can just be bailed out in the short term by money from the Bank of England," she added.

Under the arrangement, £11bn is expected to be handed to the Treasury this year, with the remaining £24bn paid in four instalments over the next financial year." - sky news app

!<deleted> is that all about?

Interest Earned by gov (thought QE was money created by the bank and loaned to the government rather than the other way around) , will be paid by the BoE to gov, but will "probably need to be paid back to the bank later".

Sounds like they're just making it up as they go along now.

I wonder- is there an account at the BoE which will be 35Billion£ lighter or is this Off balance sheet QE / pure money creation without the debt?

No Any theories what they are on about? Anyone

[mccw]

RT - "Organizers of the Stop Eviction march called for immediate action by Madrid to end foreclosures, blaming the suicide on Spain's economic hardship. Demonstrators shouted slogans such as ''No eviction unanswered,'' and ''Banker, remember we have rope.''

It is estimated that more than 400,000 families have lost their homes due to unpaid rents since the start of Spain's financial crisis in 2007."

'Banker, remember we have rope.''!

Maybe they will have to introduce two generation loans like they had in Japan although the way things are going if the second-generation can't get a job either maybe it'll have to be stretched to 3 generations .

The premier yesterday said he wants to agree on a plan with the opposition Socialist Party that will encourage banks to renegotiate loans and find ways for families to stay in their homes, according to the e-mailed text of his remarks

http://www.bloomberg...ng-suicide.html

At present if you don't pay you loose your home but keep the debt. So the bank get double- the cash, if it was ever paid, and the property. As more people wake up to the fact that the money loaned to them was created out of thin air, and therefor that the banks essentially have less right to the home than those who actually had to work to save a deposit, things could really get ugly. 400,000 families in Spain alone, that's a lot of desperate angry people, "who have rope". So many suicides; people in such frame of mind could easily start thinking to take some bankers or politicians with them.

I didn't know about intergenerational debts in Japan. Who knows how far it will go; more and worse of the same; Debt bonded slave worker class; Revolution; certainly no happy ending in sight.

[mccw]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20272997

What a mess.

[mccw]

Yesterday announced no QE in UK

But now .......

"Treasury Gets 35bn Windfall From QE Interest

Last Updated 20:01 09/11/2012

The Treasury is to receive a 35bn boost as part of a deal with the Bank of England that will effectively reduce public debt.

Chancellor George Osborne and Bank Governor Sir Mervyn King have agreed that the BoE will give the Treasury interest earned through its 375bn economy-boosting programme known as quantitative easing (QE).

The cash - currently on the BoE's books - will flatter the public accounts by reducing the budget deficit, while also acting as a "small loosening of monetary conditions" equivalent to taking more QE action, according to the Bank.

The announcement comes a day after it decided not to extend QE at its monthly policy-setting meeting.

The Treasury said the agreement was in line with similar practices surrounding QE in the United States and Japan.

In a letter to Mr Osborne, Sir Mervyn stressed the cash transferred to the Government would likely need to be paid back to the Bank in the future.

The move comes at an apt time for Mr Osborne as he faces pressure on his plans to cut borrowing.

But JP Morgan Chase economist Malcolm Barr said it was "still likely" that the Chancellor will need to push back debt reduction targets in his upcoming autumn statement.

Shadow chief secretary to the Treasury Rachel Reeves said it was a "smoke and mirrors" deal.

"Instead of changing course and taking action to create the jobs and growth we need to get the deficit down. The Chancellor seems to think he can just be bailed out in the short term by money from the Bank of England," she added.

Under the arrangement, 11bn is expected to be handed to the Treasury this year, with the remaining 24bn paid in four instalments over the next financial year." - sky news app

!<deleted> is that all about?

Interest Earned by gov (thought QE was money created by the bank and loaned to the government rather than the other way around) , will be paid by the BoE to gov, but will "probably need to be paid back to the bank later".

Sounds like they're just making it up as they go along now.

I wonder- is there an account at the BoE which will be 35Billion lighter or is this Off balance sheet QE / pure money creation without the debt?

No Any theories what they are on about? Anyone

This explains it a bit better:

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20268679

Edited November 11, 2012 by mccw

[Naam]

At present if you don't pay you loose your home but keep the debt. So the bank get double- the cash, if it was ever paid, and the property. As more people wake up to the fact that the money loaned to them was created out of thin air, and therefor that the banks essentially have less right to the home than those who actually had to work to save a deposit, things could really get ugly. 400,000 families in Spain alone, that's a lot of desperate angry people, "who have rope". So many suicides; people in such frame of mind could easily start thinking to take some bankers or politicians with them.

I didn't know about intergenerational debts in Japan. Who knows how far it will go; more and worse of the same; Debt bonded slave worker class; Revolution; certainly no happy ending in sight.

-hanging some bankers will eradicate the greed and stupidity of people who bought homes they can't afford?

the bankers have no right because the mortgage money was created out of thin air? if that was the case why does the EU pump €URo billions into spanish banks to be born by the EU taxpayer? why can't the replacement billions be siphoned out of thin air?

are you trying hard for next year's Nobel prize in economics or is your posting meant for my amusement on a rainy sunday?

[yoshiwara]

At present if you don't pay you loose your home but keep the debt. So the bank get double- the cash, if it was ever paid, and the property. As more people wake up to the fact that the money loaned to them was created out of thin air, and therefor that the banks essentially have less right to the home than those who actually had to work to save a deposit, things could really get ugly. 400,000 families in Spain alone, that's a lot of desperate angry people, "who have rope". So many suicides; people in such frame of mind could easily start thinking to take some bankers or politicians with them.

I didn't know about intergenerational debts in Japan. Who knows how far it will go; more and worse of the same; Debt bonded slave worker class; Revolution; certainly no happy ending in sight.

-hanging some bankers will eradicate the greed and stupidity of people who bought homes they can't afford?

the bankers have no right because the mortgage money was created out of thin air? if that was the case why does the EU pump €URo billions into spanish banks to be born by the EU taxpayer? why can't the replacement billions be siphoned out of thin air?

are you trying hard for next year's Nobel prize in economics or is your posting meant for my amusement on a rainy sunday?

It is meant for your amusement on a rainy Sunday.

Why is it that the end of the world team seem to have no basic understanding of economics?

Or do they think the multiplier effect is the mark of the devil?

[Naam]

Why is it that the end of the world team seem to have no basic understanding of economics?

even after years of "amusement" i am still reading quite embarrassing statements and/or theories in this thread. to my surprise even from people who seem to have had some financial success... assuming you can trust their claims. sometimes it's so bad that i can't decide whether to be amused or cry with sympathy

p.s. the above-mentioned also applies for the thread "when is Gold rocketing skyhigh?"

[midas]

Why is it that the end of the world team seem to have no basic understanding of economics?

even after years of "amusement" i am still reading quite embarrassing statements and/or theories in this thread. to my surprise even from people who seem to have had some financial success... assuming you can trust their claims. sometimes it's so bad that i can't decide whether to be amused or cry with sympathy

p.s. the above-mentioned also applies for the thread "when is Gold rocketing skyhigh?"

as usual absolutely nothing of interest from the two members of the peanut gallery.

I'm also surprised at how people can claim they were once scientists and expect us to believe that when their ONLY contribution for the past 3 + years has been constant flaming and trolling

Oh ......and bragging about ones personal achievements.......

And during the first part of this thread even claim there was no financial crisis

Very " scientific " !

Edited November 11, 2012 by midas

[midas]

RT - "Organizers of the Stop Eviction march called for immediate action by Madrid to end foreclosures, blaming the suicide on Spain's economic hardship. Demonstrators shouted slogans such as ''No eviction unanswered,'' and ''Banker, remember we have rope.''

It is estimated that more than 400,000 families have lost their homes due to unpaid rents since the start of Spain's financial crisis in 2007."

'Banker, remember we have rope.''!

Maybe they will have to introduce two generation loans like they had in Japan although the way things are going if the second-generation can't get a job either maybe it'll have to be stretched to 3 generations .

The premier yesterday said he wants to agree on a plan with the opposition Socialist Party that will encourage banks to renegotiate loans and find ways for families to stay in their homes, according to the e-mailed text of his remarks

http://www.bloomberg...ng-suicide.html

At present if you don't pay you loose your home but keep the debt. So the bank get double- the cash, if it was ever paid, and the property. As more people wake up to the fact that the money loaned to them was created out of thin air, and therefor that the banks essentially have less right to the home than those who actually had to work to save a deposit, things could really get ugly. 400,000 families in Spain alone, that's a lot of desperate angry people, "who have rope". So many suicides; people in such frame of mind could easily start thinking to take some bankers or politicians with them.

I didn't know about intergenerational debts in Japan. Who knows how far it will go; more and worse of the same; Debt bonded slave worker class; Revolution; certainly no happy ending in sight.

this article says the longest mortgage was 100 years offered in Japan in 1995

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/longest-mortgage-7677.html

interestingly it also says

Although these loan terms remain quite rare in the United States, the longer term mortgage may be coming to a real-estate market near you.

[midas]

Naam; your abound man right? What happens when a bonds bubble bursts? Do you think we could be in one / at the peak of one today?

mccw have you seen this new interview about this very subject ...?

[churchill]

Why is it that the end of the world team seem to have no basic understanding of economics?

even after years of "amusement" i am still reading quite embarrassing statements and/or theories in this thread. to my surprise even from people who seem to have had some financial success... assuming you can trust their claims. sometimes it's so bad that i can't decide whether to be amused or cry with sympathy

p.s. the above-mentioned also applies for the thread "when is Gold rocketing skyhigh?"

as usual absolutely nothing of interest from the two members of the peanut gallery.

I'm also surprised at how people can claim they were once scientists and expect us to believe that when their ONLY contribution for the past 3 + years has been constant flaming and trolling

Oh ......and bragging about ones personal achievements.......

And during the first part of this thread even claim there was no financial crisis

Very " scientific " !

Naam ...... He has to hear from his bankers .......and as usual they are the last to know ...

[midas]

Why is it that the end of the world team seem to have no basic understanding of economics?

even after years of "amusement" i am still reading quite embarrassing statements and/or theories in this thread. to my surprise even from people who seem to have had some financial success... assuming you can trust their claims. sometimes it's so bad that i can't decide whether to be amused or cry with sympathy

p.s. the above-mentioned also applies for the thread "when is Gold rocketing skyhigh?"

as usual absolutely nothing of interest from the two members of the peanut gallery.

I'm also surprised at how people can claim they were once scientists and expect us to believe that when their ONLY contribution for the past 3 + years has been constant flaming and trolling

Oh ......and bragging about ones personal achievements.......

And during the first part of this thread even claim there was no financial crisis

Very " scientific " !

Naam ...... He has to hear from his bankers .......and as usual they are the last to know ...

[mccw]

At present if you don't pay you loose your home but keep the debt. So the bank get double- the cash, if it was ever paid, and the property. As more people wake up to the fact that the money loaned to them was created out of thin air, and therefor that the banks essentially have less right to the home than those who actually had to work to save a deposit, things could really get ugly. 400,000 families in Spain alone, that's a lot of desperate angry people, "who have rope". So many suicides; people in such frame of mind could easily start thinking to take some bankers or politicians with them.

I didn't know about intergenerational debts in Japan. Who knows how far it will go; more and worse of the same; Debt bonded slave worker class; Revolution; certainly no happy ending in sight.

-hanging some bankers will eradicate the greed and stupidity of people who bought homes they can't afford?

the bankers have no right because the mortgage money was created out of thin air? if that was the case why does the EU pump €URo billions into spanish banks to be born by the EU taxpayer? why can't the replacement billions be siphoned out of thin air?

are you trying hard for next year's Nobel prize in economics or is your posting meant for my amusement on a rainy sunday?

"the bankers have no right because the mortgage money was created out of thin air?" Yes- far Less right than the people who have paid money earned by their labour.

" if that was the case why does the EU pump €URo billions into spanish banks to be born by the EU taxpayer?" - because once the debt / money is created it goes on the balance sheet and becomes a card in the larger metaphorical house.

" why can't the replacement billions be siphoned out of thin air?" That is effectively what they are doing with QE- see that link about the British BoE paying interest to the gov- the illusion that QE is not plain old money is failing. Zee Germans have a problem with such money printing thanks to memories of wienmarr and is why you see deeper austerity in EU countries than those with the ability to just print. This has been the main focus of debate at every EU crises summit for the past few years. Have you two numpties not been paying attention at all?

Think you guys are the ones embarrassing yourselves with denials of market manipulation only to be proved wrong again and again; not to mention such gems of economic understanding like trying to deny the laws of demand and supply in the gold and currency markets "every seller has a buyer" so bla bla bla

------------

On a topic about the nature of loans and money creation. Why should bankers have such privilege to create money through issuing debt? If such a thing as fiat money creation were even justifiable then I'd think an elected government should be more justifiable; who might then give the money to banks to judge who can afford to repay at very low interest; the money supply then being increased at a similarly slow and steady pace; banks would basically just be utilities for the distribution of money. Just one of a multitude of possible reforms i could think of, that will never happen with out a total Armageddon type event first occurring. Even in such an event it's unlikely anything but another illusion tailored to suit the puppet masters would be allowed though. Now the major players power positions/transitions are all in place I wouldn't be surprised if the next phase of this crises commences shortly; next 2-4months.

[mccw]

Naam; your abound man right? What happens when a bonds bubble bursts? Do you think we could be in one / at the peak of one today?

mccw have you seen this new interview about this very subject ...?

I hadn't seen that but saw the same topic come up a couple weeks ago on his show on RT.

I don't know if you saw that bbc link I posted about the QE interest being returned to the UK government? They say this is accepted practice in US and Japan as well. I was looking for some opinions on this because for me it looks very important. ie that the illusion that QE are loans to the government that must be repaid. If they are giving back the interest to the government and expecting the repayment at end of term to simply come from more effective non "loans" to what is basically themselves, then all this = is pure money printing, the illusion shattered. The natural limits of affordability because of cost to service debt have been removed. So what happens next?

If the bond bubble pops ie markets sell sell sell, then CBs can just keep on buying thier own governments bonds to make up the difference. In a previous link I showed this kinda already happening where 63% of USs were bought by the fed, up from only single digits a few years ago. So what happens when it gets to 100%?

Currency crises? Or Maybe the world will just carry on the same because the players have too much to loose if the system collapses. Personally from a year ago thinking chances were about 20-80; now I see it more like 50/50.

[mccw]

More on the monetizing; "a la wienmarr" :

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jeremywarner/100021222/the-bank-of-england-has-just-crossed-the-line-into-straight-government-financing/

And "apart from it all feeling a bit banana republic esq everyone's a winner":

http://www.bondvigilantes.com/

Edited November 11, 2012 by mccw

[Naam]

Why is it that the end of the world team seem to have no basic understanding of economics?

even after years of "amusement" i am still reading quite embarrassing statements and/or theories in this thread. to my surprise even from people who seem to have had some financial success... assuming you can trust their claims. sometimes it's so bad that i can't decide whether to be amused or cry with sympathy

p.s. the above-mentioned also applies for the thread "when is Gold rocketing skyhigh?"

as usual absolutely nothing of interest from the two members of the peanut gallery.

I'm also surprised at how people can claim they were once scientists and expect us to believe that when their ONLY contribution for the past 3 + years has been constant flaming and trolling

Oh ......and bragging about ones personal achievements.......

And during the first part of this thread even claim there was no financial crisis

Very " scientific " !

shall we do an unscientific or scientific (your choice) comparison of the assets we both hold?

as usual unsubstantiated bla-bla from the doom&gloom side which claims since 3½ years the end is nigh come next week; soon to be interspersed with reports how many goats an Islamic Gold Dirham buys in a forsaken area of Malaysia and that the municipality of Little Henhouse, Minnesota will accept silver bars in lieu of dollars for property taxes which clearly indicates "the end".

[Naam]

the present "financial crisis" has affected different people in different ways. some poor sods are really suffering whereas others have managed to increase their net worth and income substantially because of the crisis.

it remains to be seen who will fare better if/when the real crisis strikes. those who actively managed to increase their holdings thus creating a financial buffer or those who were and still are sh*tting in their pants because they were/are too scared to act.

[midas]

Why is it that the end of the world team seem to have no basic understanding of economics?

even after years of "amusement" i am still reading quite embarrassing statements and/or theories in this thread. to my surprise even from people who seem to have had some financial success... assuming you can trust their claims. sometimes it's so bad that i can't decide whether to be amused or cry with sympathy

p.s. the above-mentioned also applies for the thread "when is Gold rocketing skyhigh?"

as usual absolutely nothing of interest from the two members of the peanut gallery.

I'm also surprised at how people can claim they were once scientists and expect us to believe that when their ONLY contribution for the past 3 + years has been constant flaming and trolling

Oh ......and bragging about ones personal achievements.......

And during the first part of this thread even claim there was no financial crisis

Very " scientific " !

shall we do an unscientific or scientific (your choice) comparison of the assets we both hold?

as usual unsubstantiated bla-bla from the doom&gloom side which claims since 3½ years the end is nigh come next week; soon to be interspersed with reports how many goats an Islamic Gold Dirham buys in a forsaken area of Malaysia and that the municipality of Little Henhouse, Minnesota will accept silver bars in lieu of dollars for property taxes which clearly indicates "the end".

Oh yes in a Fukushima or Katrina or Sandy type scenario when the supermarket shelves are emptied in an instant and cannot be replenished, I'm sure people will be queueing up in the aftermath to buy your antique carpets

. I kmew when I had reached the point when I had made enough and I am very content with what I have. can you say that?

I recognised from day one just how enormous this problem is which is something you could never say about yourself with your pathetic sarcasm and trolling and at least my views have remained consistent as this crisis continues to unfold and the seriousness of it should by now the apparent even to blind Freddy even though it wasn't to you

sorry that it's not like the train arriving at platform number 4 to suit your specific timeframe.

I don't know if you have a psychological problem or something but you have been one of the most inconsistent people in this thread. One minute you are joining the condemnation of the banksters and then the next minute you flame mccw in defence of the banksters.

from all your constant blah blah blah over the last 3+ years I can certainly tell just how mentally prepared you are for the anarchy that is to come ................

Edited November 12, 2012 by midas

[midas]

YES i hold a doom and gloom outlook ( as some have labelled it ) because no amount of tax increases, spending cuts or other financial manoeuvring will overcome the problem until we recognise the defect is in our own human condition which is so aptly summed up by this gentleman

!

Edited November 12, 2012 by midas

[mccw]

YES i hold a doom and gloom outlook ( as some have labelled it ) because no amount of tax increases, spending cuts or other financial manoeuvring will overcome the problem until we recognise the defect is in our own human condition which is so aptly summed up by this gentleman

!

Mr Rascal sums up the debt culture of the modern day youth rather well I think:

For the oldies who can't understand his chat :

http://rapgenius.com/Dizzee-rascal-you-got-the-dirtee-love-lyrics

For sure the whole system is rotten top to bottom. The banks and government are the enablers but the wider culture is fuc_ked. The protest etc everywhere all full if blame and wants to get back to "normal" ie affordable consumerism for everyone, but the reality is the those decades were a blip in history because of the abundance of cheap energy; that era is ending and everything must change.