Financial Crisis

[midas]

Its only £10 but I am probably as angry as 12 today

about this story of the UK Home Secretary ,claiming taxpayer-funded

allowances for her husbands viewing of pornographic films at home.

Dont tell me they would not have tried to get away with it if they could. Its the

utter contempt about the way they view the use of public money that gets me.

And this would be the tip of the iceberg.

They all sicken me with their perks and pensions for life.

Lets fill Parliament with chimps - they wouldnt cost as much

and they couldnt posibly do a worse job than these money grabbing b**tards

Edited March 30, 2009 by midas

[samuibeachcomber]

Ok folks, this week the announcment will be made.

OK alex,so pre-empt them!are we looking at something completely un expected,will we understand?

[AlexLah]

Yep same sh1t different day. If these people are the role models for future leaders it doesn't look good but it really not surprises me anymore.

I know many times people complaint about the rampant corruption in a lot of parts of Asia, Europe is as worse if not worse.

And the strange thing is that such people really do not feel they do something wrong as they think all they do is make maximum use of allowances that can be claimed. I had my share of working with such types and it really made me sick in the end.

I have had a nice long holiday but soon have to join the rat race again as my money is running out, hopefully can find an employer that is less infested with such leeches as in my previous company.

Anyway, we have an interesting week to come and let's see what comes out of the G20 meeting but it will most likely be an announcement like real progress has been made and we are convinced that with our mutual efforts to fight the economic downturn and we believe things will turn positive by the end of this year and real progress and growth will be achieved by the end of Q1 2010. Dear people of the world we can say that the worst is behind us and we just need to ask for a bit of patience before we can see the results of the meassures token. We are back on the road to prosperity for all thanks to the solid contributions and key financial regulatory reforms to be made by the members of the G20.

Bla di bla di bla.

Here, have another tea spoon of delicious hope.

[samuibeachcomber]

AL are you currently at the G20 meeting preparing for the final communique,if not, then there's a job for you there.

[midas]

Anyway, we have an interesting week to come and let's see what comes out of the G20 meeting but it will most likely be an announcement like real progress has been made and we are convinced that with our mutual efforts to fight the economic downturn and we believe things will turn positive by the end of this year and real progress and growth will be achieved by the end of Q1 2010. Dear people of the world we can say that the worst is behind us and we just need to ask for a bit of patience before we can see the results of the meassures token. We are back on the road to prosperity for all thanks to the solid contributions and key financial regulatory reforms to be made by the members of the G20.

Bla di bla di bla.

Here, have another tea spoon of delicious hope.

Oh really ?! How and when and show me the money

[samuibeachcomber]

am thinking they might pull a rabbit out of the hat.they know they've got to be seen to be doing something with some big positive decisions even if it is all smoke and mirrors.

[AlexLah]

I not sure if there will be a live stream, I guess not otherwise you could see them pointing the finger to the other and blame them for the mess we are in.

You white blue eyed scum, are the source of this evil capitalist disaster, you should be hanged from the highest pole!!!!!!

No no no you socialst communist swine it is you people that refused to buy our CIA financial instruments!!!!!

Gentlemen please calm down, have I told you about my global new deal?

Frog you, you pathetic Scottish ba5tard, your country is in the worst condition of all, when are you picking your number to get in line at the IMF, looser!!!!!!

Would be great fun.

[samuibeachcomber]

perhaps the G20 will be remembered for the demos rather than any meaningful communique,there will be a lot of hot air for sure,bake beans can remain off the menu.

[midas]

Well you'll remember Chaimai - who we haven't heard a thing from for a longtime-

has been pretty insistent there will be no violence-but we shall see !

If he is still so confident everything will remain peaceful, then he should be quite annoyed at

the 7 million British pounds which in that case is being wasted by the

government to minimise potential disruption

[12DrinkMore]

For anybody following this thread, IMO this is essential reading.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/KC31Dj05.html

It would appear that the G-20 finance ministers and central bankers diagnosed the cause of the economic crisis as only a lack of demand and ample energy and food supplies as they have dismissed the role of the energy and food crisis of 2008. Their economic theory was that boosting demand will boost jobs; a great novelty that has not been discovered by poor countries that suffer 30% unemployment and underemployment.

Such theory contradicts classical and neoclassical economics of exchange, production, distribution, and accumulation, and refutes the law of scarcity. If the G-20 finance ministers and central bankers hold the stores of nature and are to create abundance of all imaginable goods costless through fiscal expansion and unconventional money policy, then why worry about job creation? If they can turn stone into bread, why not let humans enjoy unlimited abundance?

Well, precisely. What the fukc is this churning out of newly printed fortunes? Where does it all lead to?

Why doesn't Brown just give everybody in the UK a million Quid? He can do it. All he has to do is to hit the dam_n button and credit every bank account with a super wonderful 1,000,000 quidoroonies. But why stop there? Maybe a BILLION would be SO MUCH better. HEY! Everybody in the UK could now be a BILLIONAIRE. And I would would a MULTI-BILLIONAIRE because I have over EIGHT accounts. WOW WOW WOW.

I am so excited over this. I can now afford to buy up not just HOUSES, but STREETS of houses. And equip every house with a FERRARI and a 6 metre LCD TV.

But OH NO!!! What is happening???

SHIT, in the ten minutes of thinking about my good fortune, the price of a STREET has gone up by 1,000 times, all the other Billionaires are buying them up, and OH NO, that single house is now priced at 10 Billion. Come on! What's up here? That is more than Brown gave me and last week I could buy a whole VILLAGE. Now I can't even afford a single house.

OH MY GOD! There is so much lovely money flowing around, look at that man over there! He has a whole pick-up FULL of crispy 1,000,000 Pound notes. Is he off to buy Buck House? Is he buying the West Country? Oh what? Surely not, it's a loaf of BREAD!

Sorry, can't afford the time to write anymore, I must go and spend my 8,000,000,000 Quids on a can of beer before the PRICE GOES UP!

Get the picture?

(I must admit that I am in a slight alcoholic haze at the moment, but I am currently wrestling with the idea that ANY profits made in the financial markets do not increase the total wealth of a country, but reduce it, and, in the process, substantially reduce the wealth of the real wealth producers in industry, and move it to the bullshitting financial services)

But anyway, back to the Asian Times, I recommend that you read the articles.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy.html

And make sure you don't miss this

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/KC25Dj05.html

It is not to be dismissed.

Edited March 30, 2009 by 12DrinkMore

[12DrinkMore]

Be a sucker

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/comme...ed-1657059.html

So, if money isn't even safe in the bank, be virtuous. Be practical. Be responsible. Rebuild your balance sheet and pay off as much debt as you can. Be a sucker. Because when we look into the past, we can see how they're going to get out of this mess in the future. They're going to increase public debt massively, then they'll print money to service it and use inflation to run the debt down.

[midas]

Alex Lah - you have been vindicated! I watched a segment on TV this morning in which

a number of self-proclaimed skeptics about conspiracy theories were on a panel and admitted that

something sinister could now be going on regarding the desire to get closer to a world government scenario.

Apparently at the G20 in what they described as a " heavily camouflaged sideshow " to the main event

( so as not to draw too much attention ), will propose that the IMF starts to regulate all international

financial institutions such as the SEC. The panel acknowledged that this combined with all the comments

last week about the possibilities for an international currency that the conspiracy theorists

may not have been wrong after all.

I must admit I have always regarded it has something that would never happen in my lifetime-

but now I'm starting to listen more seriously. My question to anyone is who is most likely to be behind all this?

Any theories ?

Edited March 31, 2009 by midas

[Naam]

I must admit I have always regarded it has something that would never happen in my lifetime-

but now I'm starting to listen more seriously. My question to anyone is who is most likely to be behind all this?

Any theories ?

it's either the Ferengi or the Borg. i bet it's the Ferengi and i assure you that the Klingon Empire has nothing to do with any conspiracy on planet Earth!

[midas]

Be a sucker

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/comme...ed-1657059.html

So, if money isn't even safe in the bank, be virtuous. Be practical. Be responsible. Rebuild your balance sheet and pay off as much debt as you can. Be a sucker. Because when we look into the past, we can see how they're going to get out of this mess in the future. They're going to increase public debt massively, then they'll print money to service it and use inflation to run the debt down.

So what we want is enormous debts ourselves that inflation will degrade over the next decade.

That's how Alistair Darling is recommending we do it. True, he isn't putting it quite in those terms,

but his meaning is perfectly clear to those of a sceptical bent.

There was a period in the 1970s when inflation in USA and Australia was running higher than

interest rates and this philosophy of going deeper into debt -i.e. for business purposes

not to purchase consumer goods -seemed to be quite acceptable because it paid to do so.

At this time in the '70s Walt Disney in reply to a question about his personal wealth replied "I must be

wealthy, I owe $7 million dollars " !

[AlexLah]

Thank you Midas for vindicating me

There are a lot of things going on and sure we don't know everything but after collecting some well documented facts it just takes patience and some peeps that can put the pieces together.

Take the rescue plan of Geitner for example, it can go two ways, it either completely fails or it will work for the short term leaving banks with again massive profits. I bet on the last. So if Timmy's intention with this plan is to enrich his buddy bankers is that then called a conspiracy?

For now it is still a theory, we will soon know if the theory becomes fact but then it will be too late, and people will say, dam_n you were right, how did you know? I remember many pages back that I said that there is a plan for most of this and then Lana responded: There is no plan! It is all just a coincidence right? I am fine if that is what you want to believe but I think if we look at all the pieces it is easy to start building the puzzle. But that's what you can do after things occur, the fun part is when you can sort of predict what will happen in the near future or when something will happen. And you know not to brag about it but I have been pretty accurate with these. Last prediction was just 2 days off, my previous was spot on. So I think I found something but it's hard to figure it out with only one braincell

Also when looking at history you can find plenty of examples of conspiracy facts which if you would present them as a theory at that time you would be called a loony or what is now a popular word that is used, a thruther or conspiracy theorist. There are Lot's of looney's out there with really crazy ideas like holograms and energy beam weapons that can vaporise massive buildings into dust, but I hope we here are smart enough to use the fine filter and leave those ideas where they belong.

I am 99% convinced this whole crisis and all the bubbles have been created by some people that knew exactly what they were doing and some peeps that just did not really understand what they signed/voted for. But there is not really much we can do about it anymore as the seeds of evil have been planted a long time ago and the fruits of their works are now visible. We can protest and riot maybe hang a few on lamp poles but to have some real effect it would take millions and millions of people worldwide to unite and take action. But I don't see that happening, yet.

For now most people just follow the grey mass and dive into a big hole as illustrated in below picture (clicker de click picture)

Enjoy life while you can, and appreciate the beautiful things in life.

Inshallah

[Nouf]

I have been thinking about this as well,

What is to stop BAC buying Citi, and Citi buying BAC, and then dumping the crap on to the Public when the bets are bad, and thus getting the crap of both balance sheets, so they can buy the junk at market price

Karl Denninger from the market Ticket highlights this:

http://market-ticker.org/

"The second point is the problem although it doesn't seem so at first blush. Why, after all, would a private party intentionally overpay .vs. what their analytics say is the true value over time of these securities?

The problem is that there is a perverse incentive for a bank to participate through some back channel if it can, given sufficient leverage.

Let's say I'm "Frobozz Bank" and have $100 billion of this trash (a lot!) on my balance sheet. Its mostly performing (for now) on a cash-flow basis, but I know what the deterioration in on-time payment flow looks like, and as a consequence I know in advance that eventually this paper is going to be worth much less than my "internal" marks (that I'm reporting every quarter on Level 3.)

So here comes Treasury. They offer 20:1 leverage (I put up 5%) and the "private parties" bid for the assets, with their maximum loss being capped at their contribution (that is, if there's more than a 5% loss the taxpayer eats it.)

Aha! Now if I can be the "private party" I can overpay on purpose, capping my losses at 5% of whatever I "buy" from myself! I am thus able to transfer the other 95% of the risk onto the taxpayer and I escape with a 5% penalty off the purchase price!

That, if it happens, is an enormous scam and Treasury and the FDIC must absolutely guarantee that it not occur. If it does, we the taxpayers are going to be violated to an insane degree while the true "risk money" (and there's a lot of it out there) won't go anywhere near this program, because they, being unwilling to overpay, will simply lose the bidding contests.

So in order to prevent intentional overpayment you must as a matter of policy (and even law) enforce strict separation of the funds that are doing the buying from anyone that has an interest in the sellers, and make clear that if you catch anyone cheating extremely severe sanctions - like 100 years with Bubba - will be the consequence.

If you do not the process will get gamed and the taxpayers will lose."

The more i look into this the more i can see the usual stooges screw this to there advantage and what happens if the banks simply say No way are there going to sell for 30 or 40c on the $ they only say they want full value or they refuse to sell???

Yet if they take the marks they are bankrupt, its only because the government is propping then up, yet they still have balls to dictate their own terms and give out the bonuses

sshhheeesshh who is really in control????

if you simply get a stalemate, then this plan goes no where, its essentially trying to get the paper trading on the back of the US tax payer as per my earlier piece

This ends badly if the tax payer takes the hit for this, they might as well nationalise the Banks and tell the bankers to piss off (I am beginning to think this is really the only option)

take the hit, throw it on the balance sheet (because it seems with all these schemes many are just trying to rape the treasury before they know their time is up) because the management have been shown to be corrupt and against ideas of reform

Yet the US government honours them.

you are still going to get pickers and choosers, anyone with common sense is only taking a low risk odds that they can savalge some of the toxic junk

its toxic for a reason, and that is from defaults, thats why there is no market today, maybe turbo timmy will finally get this and Obama will listen to common sense

(wow!!!!!! did you see that pig)

All this messing around i think is just delaying what is eventually going to come, just like Japan they were forced to write down this crap and take it on the Public balance sheet

Hmmmm it seems this is going to be the obvious choice, looks like the banks (ive read a few articles that BAC and Citi are buying these toxic assets and "gamming the system"), the sooner congress NATIONALISES these banks that are fleecing the system the better at least the SCUM dont fleece the tax payer, this is robbery in broad daylight, its obvious, if congress allows this, plan to go trough, those that vote Yes should be thrown out

US tax players should be going mental if as the video explains actually happens, as all those marks from the toxic assets are going straight to the Public balance sheet, and you can bet that the bankers are going to pay themselves nice bonuses for screwing the public

This a great explanation and needs to go viral

Already a few known bloggers have highlighted it

Edited March 31, 2009 by Nouf

[lannarebirth]

Thank you Midas for vindicating me

There are a lot of things going on and sure we don't know everything but after collecting some well documented facts it just takes patience and some peeps that can put the pieces together.

Take the rescue plan of Geitner for example, it can go two ways, it either completely fails or it will work for the short term leaving banks with again massive profits. I bet on the last. So if Timmy's intention with this plan is to enrich his buddy bankers is that then called a conspiracy?

For now it is still a theory, we will soon know if the theory becomes fact but then it will be too late, and people will say, dam_n you were right, how did you know? I remember many pages back that I said that there is a plan for most of this and then Lana responded: There is no plan! It is all just a coincidence right? I am fine if that is what you want to believe but I think if we look at all the pieces it is easy to start building the puzzle. But that's what you can do after things occur, the fun part is when you can sort of predict what will happen in the near future or when something will happen. And you know not to brag about it but I have been pretty accurate with these. Last prediction was just 2 days off, my previous was spot on. So I think I found something but it's hard to figure it out with only one braincell

Also when looking at history you can find plenty of examples of conspiracy facts which if you would present them as a theory at that time you would be called a loony or what is now a popular word that is used, a thruther or conspiracy theorist. There are Lot's of looney's out there with really crazy ideas like holograms and energy beam weapons that can vaporise massive buildings into dust, but I hope we here are smart enough to use the fine filter and leave those ideas where they belong.

I am 99% convinced this whole crisis and all the bubbles have been created by some people that knew exactly what they were doing and some peeps that just did not really understand what they signed/voted for. But there is not really much we can do about it anymore as the seeds of evil have been planted a long time ago and the fruits of their works are now visible. We can protest and riot maybe hang a few on lamp poles but to have some real effect it would take millions and millions of people worldwide to unite and take action. But I don't see that happening, yet.

For now most people just follow the grey mass and dive into a big hole as illustrated in below picture (clicker de click picture)

Enjoy life while you can, and appreciate the beautiful things in life.

Inshallah

I'm sorry to see so much information brought to light Alex, yet you choose to remain in LaLa land. There is no "plan" Alex.

What there are Alex are "interests". Some criminal, some soverign, some corporate. What you're leasrning, which most astute people have known alll along, is that the "peoples interests" fall far behind those previously mentioned. Good luck with the learning curve.

I always like to relate observed phenomena to a scientific basis Alex. Think of the entropy phenomenon and imagine that there was a way to benefit from it rather than suffer from it.

Edited March 31, 2009 by lannarebirth

[AlexLah]

Well Lana then we just have a different meaning about what is unfolding.

Using science and "difficult" words does not change a thing.

These people have a plan and the "Plan" is very well "Planned"

Many examples are freely and very easy to obtain and I believe I have given some good examples to show how I see things.

I am always open to learn new things so if you have any evidence that let's say what has happened in the last 30-35 years was just coincidence

and that nobody had one clue as to where those actions would possibly lead to, feel free to post.

You call it: "Interest" I call it actions of psychpaths because that is what a lot of them are. Call it what you want, but for example dumping toxic chemicals in Africa instead of savely store or destroy it in your own country. Just because dumping it is less costly it is therefore called it is in the better interest for the company. I had a few personal experiences with big multinationals with managers and CEO's that showed such thinking and behaviour and it is pathetic.

Same now with all the toxic financial waste, it will be dumped in the backyard of Johny the taxpayer, again a corparate victory to be proud of.

[Naam]

HALLELUJAH AMEN!

[12DrinkMore]

Here we go, that <deleted> Brown is spouting off again.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/polit...er-1658487.html

"Our task today is to bring the imperatives served by our financial markets into proper alignment with the values held by families and business people across our country - hard work, taking responsibility, being honest, being fair," Brown said.

Well, as they say, charity begins at home, so what's the plan, eh, Brown?

If you want to talk the talk, you have to walk the walk.

"hard work, taking responsibility, being honest, being fair"

THE NEW LABOUR PARTY POLICY????

Me thinks not

:D

This lying rhetoric really makes me ANGRY

Edited March 31, 2009 by 12DrinkMore

[AlexLah]

He sounds more and more desperate, have a look at your MP's Brownie.

Honesty is not the same as honorable, at least it seems.....

Sad actually....

[lannarebirth]

Well Lana then we just have a different meaning about what is unfolding.

Using science and "difficult" words does not change a thing.

These people have a plan and the "Plan" is very well "Planned"

Many examples are freely and very easy to obtain and I believe I have given some good examples to show how I see things.

I am always open to learn new things so if you have any evidence that let's say what has happened in the last 30-35 years was just coincidence

and that nobody had one clue as to where those actions would possibly lead to, feel free to post.

You call it: "Interest" I call it actions of psychpaths because that is what a lot of them are. Call it what you want, but for example dumping toxic chemicals in Africa instead of savely store or destroy it in your own country. Just because dumping it is less costly it is therefore called it is in the better interest for the company. I had a few personal experiences with big multinationals with managers and CEO's that showed such thinking and behaviour and it is pathetic.

Same now with all the toxic financial waste, it will be dumped in the backyard of Johny the taxpayer, again a corparate victory to be proud of.

Interests Alex. Self Interested Interests if you like.

Good article:

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200905/imf-advice

[samuibeachcomber]

Here we go, that <deleted> Brown is spouting off again.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/polit...er-1658487.html

"Our task today is to bring the imperatives served by our financial markets into proper alignment with the values held by families and business people across our country - hard work, taking responsibility, being honest, being fair," Brown said.

Well, as they say, charity begins at home, so what's the plan, eh, Brown?

If you want to talk the talk, you have to walk the walk.

"hard work, taking responsibility, being honest, being fair"

THE NEW LABOUR PARTY POLICY????

Me thinks not

This lying rhetoric really makes me ANGRY

yeah me to,no one's fooled by what brown says,only brown.while he's <deleted> around with G20,his govt. are giving public sector pay rises,pay rises to the pollies,and at the same time their expenses scams are being exposed and brown does nothing,someone really needs to put a bullet in his head,put him out of his misery and put the UK public out of theirs.

[teletiger]

If the UK and US were to nationalise their respective banks, wouldn't that in effect mean the nationalization of the Fed?

Regards.

[samuibeachcomber]

If the UK and US were to nationalise their respective banks, wouldn't that in effect mean the nationalization of the Fed?

Regards.

dont realy understand your point?what has the UK got to do with the US federal reserve?

[12DrinkMore]

Good article:

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200905/imf-advice

Well, thanks, now I feel even worse.

Johnson obviously knows what he is writing about. And I don't like any of the two scenarios he has portrayed as possible outcomes. But I can't think of any others. The mess is huge.

[teletiger]

dont realy understand your point?what has the UK got to do with the US federal reserve?

I was under the impression that certain British banks were shareholders in the Fed.

Regards

[lannarebirth]

Good article:

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200905/imf-advice

Well, thanks, now I feel even worse.

Johnson obviously knows what he is writing about. And I don't like any of the two scenarios he has portrayed as possible outcomes. But I can't think of any others. The mess is huge.

Here's a "positive" note to cheer you up. This week FASB will anounce new accounting rules that will let companies value their assets at whatever value they like. No need to consider what they could actually sell them for. If that's not bullish I don't know what is. Changes to take effect immediately (read next week is the beginning of earnings season). "Investors" will have to search mightily for "actual" earnings. Not that they're looking mind you.

Edited March 31, 2009 by lannarebirth

[AlexLah]

The rules cannot change.

The "Investors" are taking a big risk (3-5% of total investment)

They can loose all ther money (No they will not you frikkin liar)

See and hear this con artist (a bad one) and watch body and face language (2nd video).

Bad interviewer as well, Timmy boy never answers the real question, ah what the heck, I am not even living there why should I care.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/29/g...e_n_180477.html

No beer in the fridge today

[lannarebirth]

I have to say, these banks get the highest ROI (from lobbying) of any company I've ever looked at.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...p;refer=finance

We're either "off to the races" or it will be Black Friday. I'm thinking the former at present.

Edited March 31, 2009 by lannarebirth