Financial Crisis

[Naam]

that should scare the living beejesus out

of the Brits who live in Nakhon Nowhere!

ha-ha-ha barf barf!!

"£ 34.408 debt per UK taxpayer"

.......

"The truth however is much worse, factoring in all liabilities including state and public sector pensions, the real national debt is closer to £4.8 trillion, some £78,000 for every person in the UK."

Neversure .....

You are counting the sum owed BY the British population, but omitting the small fact that it's also owed TO the British population.

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. That figure is money owed by the government to the people in the way of pensions.

You must separate the private sector from the public (government) sector. The private sector creates wealth while the public sector is a consumer of wealth produced by the private sector. The government must figure out a way to pay these pensions, etc., to the people who have received the promises.

So while yes, the government is the people, it has to tax the people to pay its bills and they are £4.8 trillion, some £78,000 for every person in the UK.

UK is, no doubt, in big sh*t! i'm convinced that many Brits, especially those i mentioned above who live in Nakhon Nowhere, would sacrifice one of their balls if they were a citizen of a debt free country where "tax" is concerned an obscene word such as... the U.S. of A. (aka Greatest Nation on Earth™).

[midas]

that should scare the living beejesus out

of the Brits who live in Nakhon Nowhere!

ha-ha-ha barf barf!!

Neversure .....

You are counting the sum owed BY the British population, but omitting the small fact that it's also owed TO the British population.

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. That figure is money owed by the government to the people in the way of pensions.

You must separate the private sector from the public (government) sector. The private sector creates wealth while the public sector is a consumer of wealth produced by the private sector. The government must figure out a way to pay these pensions, etc., to the people who have received the promises.

So while yes, the government is the people, it has to tax the people to pay its bills and they are £4.8 trillion, some £78,000 for every person in the UK.

UK is, no doubt, in big sh*t! i'm convinced that many Brits, especially those i mentioned above who live in Nakhon Nowhere, would sacrifice one of their balls if they were a citizen of a debt free country where "tax" is concerned an obscene word such as... the U.S. of A. (aka Greatest Nation on Earth™).

BBC Newsnight about the need for British people to save money

" Save Our Savers "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yhMEtyeVBvc

Edited August 14, 2013 by midas

[cheeryble]

.....yet if you look at a £/$ chart for 30 years it looks like the £ retains a fair level of confidence

http://fxtop.com/en/historical-exchange-rates.php?A=1&C1=GBP&C2=USD&DD1=01&MM1=02&YYYY1=1985&B=1&P=&I=1&DD2=04&MM2=03&YYYY2=2013&btnOK=Go!

Edited August 14, 2013 by cheeryble

[mccw]

""""

The eurozone has moved out of recession as its economy grew by 0.3% in the second quarter.

It means the struggling area has finally emerged from its longest recession to date.

The eurozone saw slightly faster then expected growth, with its two largest economies leading the way.

Germany, Europe's biggest economy, expanded by 0.7% in the period from April to June, after GDP stagnated in the first quarter.

France saw its strongest quarterly growth in two years as its economy increased by 0.5%, while Portugal boasted a rapid rise of 1.1%.

The official figures confirmed expectations that a fragile recovery is underway, however some countries saw contraction.

In Spain GDP fell by 0.1%, while Italy and the Netherlands both dropped by 0.2%.

The data from Eurostat, the European Union's statistics office, showed that collectively the 17 EU countries saw the first quarterly growth since the eurozone slipped into recession in the final quarter of 2011.

Lasting six quarters, it was the longest recession to hit the eurozone following the launch of the single currency in 1999.

The quarterly improvement was slightly better than the 0.2% market expectations.

But despite the expansion, the eurozone economy remains 0.7% smaller than it was in the same period last year.

""""

-sky news app

[manarak]

""""

The eurozone has moved out of recession as its economy grew by 0.3% in the second quarter.

It means the struggling area has finally emerged from its longest recession to date.

The eurozone saw slightly faster then expected growth, with its two largest economies leading the way.

Germany, Europe's biggest economy, expanded by 0.7% in the period from April to June, after GDP stagnated in the first quarter.

France saw its strongest quarterly growth in two years as its economy increased by 0.5%, while Portugal boasted a rapid rise of 1.1%.

The official figures confirmed expectations that a fragile recovery is underway, however some countries saw contraction.

In Spain GDP fell by 0.1%, while Italy and the Netherlands both dropped by 0.2%.

The data from Eurostat, the European Union's statistics office, showed that collectively the 17 EU countries saw the first quarterly growth since the eurozone slipped into recession in the final quarter of 2011.

Lasting six quarters, it was the longest recession to hit the eurozone following the launch of the single currency in 1999.

The quarterly improvement was slightly better than the 0.2% market expectations.

But despite the expansion, the eurozone economy remains 0.7% smaller than it was in the same period last year.

""""

-sky news app

The figures are very very fragile.

Germany posted 0.7% and France 0.5% and still the whole of the EU only posts an average of 0.3%...

France's figures are... ummm... not only surprising, but the details show how shallow they are. 0.3% came from "inner demand" and the other 0.2% came from stocked production, meaning unsold products produced by manufacturers and stocked, waiting to be sold.

In the meanwhile, unemployment continued to rise significantly.

France is still far from a recovery inspite of this surprising growth.

[midas]

Neversure I don't see how you can possibly be optimistic about the future of your country until they can overcome this problem?

[ronz28]

I am more concerned with the billions of dollars banksters, hedge fund bandits, etc. suck out of the economy & ultimately some from my pockets via the Feds official financial repression of interest rates stealing from my earnings on cash equivalents just to recapitalize the billions stolen from their banks.

Fox News attempts to hide the theft by trying to focus your attention on the $200 per month this guy gets until he pays income taxes from future record labels is reprehensible.

[midas]

I am more concerned with the billions of dollars banksters, hedge fund bandits, etc. suck out of the economy & ultimately some from my pockets via the Feds official financial repression of interest rates stealing from my earnings on cash equivalents just to recapitalize the billions stolen from their banks.

Fox News attempts to hide the theft by trying to focus your attention on the $200 per month this guy gets until he pays income taxes from future record labels is reprehensible.

I don't agree with you, Ron. Where in that interview did he say he was accepting the money with the genuine intention of even trying somehow paying it back at a later time? And you don't think there is anything wrong that no one monitors his activities for a whole year as to whether he is even seriously looking for work or not at least ?

And it's not just him -it's endemic through some sectors of American society. What about the people who have received not one free Obama mobile telephone but seem proud when they reveal how easy it was to cheat the system by getting three or sometimes four free telephones for the same persom because there was no one carrying out any checking.

I would suggest you that a country that is nearly $17 trillion in debt can't afford to have such loose standards when it comes to giving money away?

Edited August 16, 2013 by midas

[ronz28]

I think taxes will eventually take a bite out of his income or has already done so regardless of whether or not he wants to pay into the fund that currently helps support him. Fox news probably paid him to paint an extreme picture of food stamps recipients. I do agree there are too many people on food stamps supported by the rest of us.

However, the real material problems leading to the financial crisis are certain uncontrolled banksters, hedge fund bandits, overpaid CEOs and other mega leaches that are sucking the life out of the worlds' banks, companies, pension funds, investment funds, etc., burdening the rest of us with higher taxes and lower incomes while enriching a few at the expense of many who have far less to spend. The many who spend are the fuel for economic expansion, job creation, innovation and advance the standard of living for all us, but the few bandits just accumulate more assets into black holes in the economy than they can manage and end up feeding other bandits. The loss of the economic fuel just leads to mass layoffs and economic contraction.

[manarak]

Neversure I don't see how you can possibly be optimistic about the future of your country until they can overcome this problem?

that scum is part of a minority abusing the system, but in my opinion the costs for supporting the abusers in addition of those in need are less than the costs for tightly controlling everyone and treating every person in need as a potential freeloading criminal until that person has proven to really deserve the aid... I don't think that with this anecdotical abuser Fox News found what's straining taxpayers. If you really want to find out about that, better look at the Navy and what's being built at Fort Meade and other subsidiaries.

[NeverSure]

I am more concerned with the billions of dollars banksters, hedge fund bandits, etc. suck out of the economy & ultimately some from my pockets via the Feds official financial repression of interest rates stealing from my earnings on cash equivalents just to recapitalize the billions stolen from their banks.

Fox News attempts to hide the theft by trying to focus your attention on the $200 per month this guy gets until he pays income taxes from future record labels is reprehensible.

I don't agree with you, Ron. Where in that interview did he say he was accepting the money with the genuine intention of even trying somehow paying it back at a later time? And you don't think there is anything wrong that no one monitors his activities for a whole year as to whether he is even seriously looking for work or not at least ?

And it's not just him -it's endemic through some sectors of American society. What about the people who have received not one free Obama mobile telephone but seem proud when they reveal how easy it was to cheat the system by getting three or sometimes four free telephones for the same persom because there was no one carrying out any checking.

I would suggest you that a country that is nearly $17 trillion in debt can't afford to have such loose standards when it comes to giving money away?

Again, don't just look at liabilities. Any accountant will also look at assets. The US has the world's 3rd largest land mass behind Russia and Canada, and much of Russia and Canada is arctic. In the US, only Alaska is arctic and it has oil, timber, minerals, and great fisheries.

The US has the world's 3rd largest population and plenty of good land and fisheries (88,000 miles of salt water shoreline) to feed the people.

The US has more proven oil reserves than all of the rest of the world combined. In the next 3 years it will pass Saudi Arabia as the world's #1 oil producer, and by 2020 it will become a net exporter of oil. It's possible that the US has 3 times as much oil as all of the rest of the world combined, much not looked for yet especially off shore.

The US has vast timber lands and massive amounts of minerals.

The US government owns 40% of all of the land from the Rocky Mountains West, and 80% of Utah which is mineral rich. It also owns a lot of the land E. of the Rockies. All of the resources on federal lands belong to the government.

I could go on...

[midas]

I am more concerned with the billions of dollars banksters, hedge fund bandits, etc. suck out of the economy & ultimately some from my pockets via the Feds official financial repression of interest rates stealing from my earnings on cash equivalents just to recapitalize the billions stolen from their banks.

Fox News attempts to hide the theft by trying to focus your attention on the $200 per month this guy gets until he pays income taxes from future record labels is reprehensible.

I don't agree with you, Ron. Where in that interview did he say he was accepting the money with the genuine intention of even trying somehow paying it back at a later time? And you don't think there is anything wrong that no one monitors his activities for a whole year as to whether he is even seriously looking for work or not at least ?

And it's not just him -it's endemic through some sectors of American society. What about the people who have received not one free Obama mobile telephone but seem proud when they reveal how easy it was to cheat the system by getting three or sometimes four free telephones for the same persom because there was no one carrying out any checking.

I would suggest you that a country that is nearly $17 trillion in debt can't afford to have such loose standards when it comes to giving money away?

Again, don't just look at liabilities. Any accountant will also look at assets. The US has the world's 3rd largest land mass behind Russia and Canada, and much of Russia and Canada is arctic. In the US, only Alaska is arctic and it has oil, timber, minerals, and great fisheries.

The US has the world's 3rd largest population and plenty of good land and fisheries (88,000 miles of salt water shoreline) to feed the people.

The US has more proven oil reserves than all of the rest of the world combined. In the next 3 years it will pass Saudi Arabia as the world's #1 oil producer, and by 2020 it will become a net exporter of oil. It's possible that the US has 3 times as much oil as all of the rest of the world combined, much not looked for yet especially off shore.

The US has vast timber lands and massive amounts of minerals.

The US government owns 40% of all of the land from the Rocky Mountains West, and 80% of Utah which is mineral rich. It also owns a lot of the land E. of the Rockies. All of the resources on federal lands belong to the government.

I could go on...

All your land mass and resources is of limited use unless the whole of society is ready to work together to cultivate such land and extract the re-sources. Right now you have 50% that see nothing wrong with sponging off the efforts of the other 50%.

This is an entire generation of people who are not going to miraculously change their mindset from saying they have “absolutely no interest whatsoever in working " And this will not change soon because it is made worse by the politicians promising to create jobs when there are no jobs to be created.

Edited August 17, 2013 by midas

[poanoi]

A debate on US economy is not complete without input from the greatest economist on the matter

[midas]

A debate on US economy is not complete without input from the greatest economist on the matter

6.48 minutes ……..“ This country was founded on opportunity not entitlement “ !!

[NeverSure]

I am more concerned with the billions of dollars banksters, hedge fund bandits, etc. suck out of the economy & ultimately some from my pockets via the Feds official financial repression of interest rates stealing from my earnings on cash equivalents just to recapitalize the billions stolen from their banks.

Fox News attempts to hide the theft by trying to focus your attention on the $200 per month this guy gets until he pays income taxes from future record labels is reprehensible.

I don't agree with you, Ron. Where in that interview did he say he was accepting the money with the genuine intention of even trying somehow paying it back at a later time? And you don't think there is anything wrong that no one monitors his activities for a whole year as to whether he is even seriously looking for work or not at least ?

And it's not just him -it's endemic through some sectors of American society. What about the people who have received not one free Obama mobile telephone but seem proud when they reveal how easy it was to cheat the system by getting three or sometimes four free telephones for the same persom because there was no one carrying out any checking.

I would suggest you that a country that is nearly $17 trillion in debt can't afford to have such loose standards when it comes to giving money away?

Again, don't just look at liabilities. Any accountant will also look at assets. The US has the world's 3rd largest land mass behind Russia and Canada, and much of Russia and Canada is arctic. In the US, only Alaska is arctic and it has oil, timber, minerals, and great fisheries.

The US has the world's 3rd largest population and plenty of good land and fisheries (88,000 miles of salt water shoreline) to feed the people.

The US has more proven oil reserves than all of the rest of the world combined. In the next 3 years it will pass Saudi Arabia as the world's #1 oil producer, and by 2020 it will become a net exporter of oil. It's possible that the US has 3 times as much oil as all of the rest of the world combined, much not looked for yet especially off shore.

The US has vast timber lands and massive amounts of minerals.

The US government owns 40% of all of the land from the Rocky Mountains West, and 80% of Utah which is mineral rich. It also owns a lot of the land E. of the Rockies. All of the resources on federal lands belong to the government.

I could go on...

All your land mass and resources is of limited use unless the whole of society is ready to work together to cultivate such land and extract the re-sources. Right now you have 50% that see nothing wrong with sponging off the efforts of the other 50%.

This is an entire generation of people who are not going to miraculously change their mindset from saying they have “absolutely no interest whatsoever in working " And this will not change soon because it is made worse by the politicians promising to create jobs when there are no jobs to be created.

Your numbers are out of thin air. When you talk of people receiving government aid you are talking about retired people who worked and paid for it. You are talking about the unemployed who would like to find a good job. You are talking about the truly disabled.

Yes, the government policies suck and that doesn't help, but it isn't true that 50% of people who could work won't work and sponge off the others. I know you didn't say that, but some clarification is in order.

[midas]

Again, don't just look at liabilities. Any accountant will also look at assets. The US has the world's 3rd largest land mass behind Russia and Canada, and much of Russia and Canada is arctic. In the US, only Alaska is arctic and it has oil, timber, minerals, and great fisheries.

The US has the world's 3rd largest population and plenty of good land and fisheries (88,000 miles of salt water shoreline) to feed the people.

The US has more proven oil reserves than all of the rest of the world combined. In the next 3 years it will pass Saudi Arabia as the world's #1 oil producer, and by 2020 it will become a net exporter of oil. It's possible that the US has 3 times as much oil as all of the rest of the world combined, much not looked for yet especially off shore.

The US has vast timber lands and massive amounts of minerals.

The US government owns 40% of all of the land from the Rocky Mountains West, and 80% of Utah which is mineral rich. It also owns a lot of the land E. of the Rockies. All of the resources on federal lands belong to the government.

I could go on...

All your land mass and resources is of limited use unless the whole of society is ready to work together to cultivate such land and extract the re-sources. Right now you have 50% that see nothing wrong with sponging off the efforts of the other 50%.

This is an entire generation of people who are not going to miraculously change their mindset from saying they have “absolutely no interest whatsoever in working " And this will not change soon because it is made worse by the politicians promising to create jobs when there are no jobs to be created.

Your numbers are out of thin air. When you talk of people receiving government aid you are talking about retired people who worked and paid for it. You are talking about the unemployed who would like to find a good job. You are talking about the truly disabled.

Yes, the government policies suck and that doesn't help, but it isn't true that 50% of people who could work won't work and sponge off the others. I know you didn't say that, but some clarification is in order.

thank you for adding that final comment

I have no reason to disbelieve what Forbes magazine has written ?

165 Million Americans Are Dependents of the State

Today, a majority of Americans have a direct financial interest in voting for representatives to ensure they keep collecting their benefits and salaries, making sure others are taxed to pay for it all.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/08/15/165-million-americans-are-dependents-of-the-state-is-tyranny-next/

the point I'm trying to make is that there has to come a time when those that are carrying the financial burden ( many of them who are entrepreneurs ) could say " enough is enough " I'm throwing in the towel because I got enough saved and I'm not going to go on taking more risks and paying higher and higher taxes .

And don't forget in the book " Dreams from my Father " - Obama's father said he saw nothing wrong in principle with 100% taxation !

[midas]

“…high taxes are morally and practically good, if the government then uses them to provide for the people. How high should the tax rates be? ”Theoretically,” he wrote, “there is nothing that can stop the government from taxing 100% of income so long as the people get benefits from the government commensurate with their income which is taxed.” Yes, you read it: a 100% tax rate is fine. Obama Sr. continued, ” It is a fallacy to say there is a limit (to tax rates), and it is a fallacy to rely mainly on individual free enterprise to get the savings.”

http://www.conservativefriend.com/barack-obama-dreams-from-my-father-100-percent-income-tax/

[mccw]

This is really worth taking on board.

""""

In today’s reading we will move from interest payments in the past to capital gains in the future, as we further explore how to turn the “inflation tax” upside down. We will set up a simple illustration, and examine it from three different perspectives. We will reconcile nominal dollars, real dollars, tax dollars and net purchasing power benefits, and come to understand the underlying sources of our wealth benefits, as we learn to turn the government’s inflation blindness to our personal benefit.

The chart below illustrates the inflation tax in action. We start with an asset, and it could be almost anything. Land, gold, stocks, or comic books. We buy it for $100,000 as shown in the “Purchase Price”. We hold the asset long enough for the tax treatment to become capital gains rather than ordinary income, and then sell it.

During this time, we experience a 100% inflationary rise in prices. It now takes two dollars to buy what one dollar used to. Another way of phrasing this is that the purchasing power of a “new” dollar has dropped to fifty cents in old dollars, which makes the conversion from future nominal dollars (the left column) to real dollars (the right column) quite easy, we merely divide by two.

Our key assumption is that our asset price keeps up with inflation (many investments won’t), but that it doesn’t exceed the rate of inflation. The price doubles, but the dollar is only worth half what it used to be, so in real terms, the asset is worth the same as it was before the inflation occurred. In real terms, in terms of purchasing power, in terms of what we can buy if we sell the asset, nothing has changed, and this is represented by the dark green boxes on the chart, as well as the green bars on the graph.

But, that’s not how the government sees it. Even though the government is often the source of inflation through its fiscal and monetary policy, the government is blind to inflation with its tax policy. As far as the government is concerned, a dollar is a dollar. So what the government sees (as illustrated by the pale yellow boxes and bars) is that you bought an asset for $100,000, you sold it for $200,000, and that you just made a $100,000 profit (the “pre-tax gain” line). And the government wants its share of your profits, in the form of an assumed 15% capital gains tax, which means $15,000 in taxes.

Now, as long as we ignore inflation, that’s not so bad. We still have $85,000 in “profits”. Indeed, that 85% after-tax return on investment may look pretty sweet.

The problem is when we adjust our 85% after-tax return for the technicality of a dollar only buying what fifty cents used to. When we look at our real wealth in terms of the goods and services we can buy with the proceeds of selling our asset.

When we go down the real dollar column on the right, and look with our dark green economic “eyes”, then we see that we bought for $100,000, we sold for $100,000, and in terms of real wealth – our pre-tax gain is zero. But, we still have to pay taxes. When we discount those future taxes to bring them back to current dollars, at least it drops the real cost in half, down to $7,500. Unfortunately, once we pay those taxes – in purchasing power terms, we only have $92,500 left.

Meaning that instead of making $85,000 – we lost $7,500 out of our $100,000 investment in real terms. When we adjust for inflation and look at what a dollar will buy – our sweet 85% return vanishes, and what we are left with is a 7.5% loss on our investment.

We just met the “Inflation Tax” – and it ran over us.

Let’s review what just happened here. Through its fiscal and monetary policies, the government created inflation that cut the value of our dollars in half. Meaning that everything that we owned in dollar terms, such as bank accounts and bonds, just had half the value taken away from us. However, we were smart enough not to put our $100,000 into a dollar denominated investment. We put it into another type of asset, one that kept up with inflation. We didn’t actually make any real money, we just protected the purchasing power of our assets against the effects of unwise government policies.

So how does the government react? By stripping us of part of the wealth we did preserve, on the grounds of illusionary profits. With the illusion that created the pretext for seizing our assets having been created by the government in the first place.

That’s completely unfair. In fact, the inflation tax is totally outrageous. But that is also the way the United States federal government operates, and there is not much you or I can personally do about. Except turn the government’s inflation blindness to our advantage. If the government’s tax policy is blind to economic reality – are there ways to turn this relationship to our advantage? So that instead of paying real taxes on illusory income, we are paying illusory taxes on real income?

There are indeed ways to accomplish just that, and “Chart II: Reversing The Inflation Tax” (below) is a simple example of one such method. Much of this example is identical to the previous example, in terms of buying a $100,000 asset, experiencing 100% inflation, selling the asset for $200,000, and paying a 15% capital gains tax on any nominal dollar “profits”.

However, we make one essential change – we borrow part of the money to buy the asset. When this strategy is executed properly it creates a means to redistribute wealth from corporations and other investors into our pockets during times of substantial inflation. Even a small amount of borrowing can also act as vitally important shield against the Inflation Tax, and a moderate amount of borrowing can reverse the tax altogether.

In our example, we borrow $40,000 and put up $60,000 in cash for the remainder of the purchase price of our asset. When the inflation occurs, the value of the investment doubles – but the value of our borrowing does not. Indeed, when we look at the loan with our dark green “economic” eyes, we see something fascinating – in real dollar terms, the value of the loan we have to pay back dropped in half. Yes, we still have to pay back $40,000, but because our purchasing power has been cut in half, the dollars we pay the loan back with are only worth 50 cents each.

This means that the inflation-adjusted value of the loan is only $20,000. We own an asset that is still worth $100,000 in real terms ($200,000 in nominal terms). Our equity is equal to the value of the asset less the loan, so our equity in real dollar terms has climbed to $80,000. Meaning we have realized a genuine $20,000 profit on our investment in real dollar terms. We have gone from making no real economic profit to making a very real and substantial economic profit, on the very same asset – bought and sold at the same price.

Now this is where things get very interesting and very important. The government doesn’t see this real profit. Because government tax policy is blind to inflation. As shown with the pale yellow boxes and bars, all the government sees with are nominal dollar eyes, where a dollar is equal to a dollar and never changes in value. As shown in the yellow boxes, all the government sees is that we borrowed $40,000 – and we paid back $40,000. This lack of profit or loss means that the loan is pretty much a non-event from a tax standpoint.

So what the government sees is that we bought a property for $100,000, we sold it for $200,000, we had a loan that was a non-event, and we made a $100,000 profit, so we owe them $15,000 for their share. We pay the government in full, and they are fine – with what they officially see.

What the government doesn’t see is what happened with real dollars. Looking with nominal dollar eyes, it did not see us earning (taking) $20,000 of real value from the lender, through paying them back in full with dollars that are worth less than the dollars we borrowed from them. Because the government did not officially see the gain, we were able to take it on a tax-free basis. We take our tax-free real gain, subtract the $7,500 inflation tax that we owe the government because of our illusory gain – and we have a real gain of $12,500, after adjusting for both inflation and taxes. This is illustrated in the chart below:

In nominal terms we turn $60,000 into $145,000, which is an after-tax return of $85,000, which represents a 142% return on investment. Even after we discount for inflation, and the government seizing a share of nominal asset appreciation that doesn’t exist in real terms – our $12,500 real gain is almost a 21% return on our $60,000 investment.

So same asset purchase price. Same sale price. Same taxes legally paid in full to the government. But instead of losing 7.5% of the purchasing power of our investment – we increased it by almost 21%. That is how to reverse the Inflation Tax!

""""

From a free course at

http://danielamerman.com

[chiang mai]

mccw: we talked earlier in the thread about war, Syria and boots on the ground, I see this morning that the UK's Hague is making nosies along the lines of, "an invasion of Syria is on the cards" in response to the latest gas attack!

[Lancelot]

UK is, no doubt, in big sh*t! i'm convinced that many Brits, especially those i mentioned above who live in Nakhon Nowhere, would sacrifice one of their balls if they were a citizen of a debt free country where "tax" is concerned an obscene word such as... the U.S. of A. (aka Greatest Nation on Earth).

I'm telling Bill O'Reily.

Nam, you and the Klingon Empire WILL stand down...

[midas]

mccw: we talked earlier in the thread about war, Syria and boots on the ground, I see this morning that the UK's Hague is making nosies along the lines of, "an invasion of Syria is on the cards" in response to the latest gas attack!

I think it's worse than that, or should I say I think it's closer than that.

It's sheer lunacy and criminal because the 10-year-old kid could tell you that this would be a false flag attack. All I keep asking myself is why, why, why, knowing what the consequences of this will be………………………………

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57599944/u.s-preps-for-possible-cruise-missile-attack-on-syrian-govt-forces/

[BlackJack]

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/larry-summers-and-the-secret-end-game-memo

More leaked documents.

Green light for conspiracy theorists.

Red light for Klingons.

[chiang mai]

mccw: we talked earlier in the thread about war, Syria and boots on the ground, I see this morning that the UK's Hague is making nosies along the lines of, "an invasion of Syria is on the cards" in response to the latest gas attack!

I think it's worse than that, or should I say I think it's closer than that.

It's sheer lunacy and criminal because the 10-year-old kid could tell you that this would be a false flag attack. All I keep asking myself is why, why, why, knowing what the consequences of this will be………………………………

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57599944/u.s-preps-for-possible-cruise-missile-attack-on-syrian-govt-forces/

We need to do this thing, now, regardless of the consequences.

Edited August 24, 2013 by chiang mai

[Naam]

mccw: we talked earlier in the thread about war, Syria and boots on the ground, I see this morning that the UK's Hague is making nosies along the lines of, "an invasion of Syria is on the cards" in response to the latest gas attack!

another UK clown who makes noise and presents bullsh*t as did the former UK clown

Tony B. Liar

[BlackJack]

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/larry-summers-and-the-secret-end-game-memo

More leaked documents.

Green light for conspiracy theorists.

Red light for Klingons.

and one more - Back in 2012, the major US banks settled a federal mortgage-fraud lawsuit for $95,000,000. The suit was filed by Lynn Szymoniak, a white-collar fraud specialist, whose own house had been fraudulently foreclosed-upon. When the feds settled with the banks, the evidence detailing the scope of their fraud was sealed, but as of last week, those docs are unsealed, and Szymoniak is shouting them from the hills. The banks precipitated the subprime crash by "securitizing" mortgages -- turning mortgages into bonds that could be sold to people looking for investment income -- and the securitization process involved transferring title for homes several times over. This title-transfer has a formal legal procedure, and in the absence of that procedure, no sale had taken place. See where this is going? link here http://boingboing.net/2013/08/12/unsealed-court-settlement-docu.html

[chiang mai]

mccw: we talked earlier in the thread about war, Syria and boots on the ground, I see this morning that the UK's Hague is making nosies along the lines of, "an invasion of Syria is on the cards" in response to the latest gas attack!

another UK clown who makes noise and presents bullsh*t as did the former UK clown

Tony B. Liar

Hague is Foriegn Secretary, Blair was Prime Minister, in that espect Hague is doing his job and his European counterparts should be doing the same thing!

[midas]

mccw: we talked earlier in the thread about war, Syria and boots on the ground, I see this morning that the UK's Hague is making nosies along the lines of, "an invasion of Syria is on the cards" in response to the latest gas attack!

I think it's worse than that, or should I say I think it's closer than that.

It's sheer lunacy and criminal because the 10-year-old kid could tell you that this would be a false flag attack. All I keep asking myself is why, why, why, knowing what the consequences of this will be………………………………

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57599944/u.s-preps-for-possible-cruise-missile-attack-on-syrian-govt-forces/

We need to do this thing, now, regardless of the consequences.

I am very intrigued to know who you mean by “ we “ ?

Are you talking about the likes of George Soros and you?

I certainly don't believe you can possibly be referring to “ we “ as anything remotely like a group of people who seek and support democratic values because I think you'd find on both sides of the Atlantic NO ONE wants another war. Let these countries fix the myriad of problems within their own borders before they go interfering in other countries yet again.

And have you any idea what the "consequences " are likely to be? God help us all

p.s. I mean, I ask you, look at USA's record as to being able to accurately forecast the outcome of ANY war they have been involved with going back as far even as Vietnam?

Edited August 24, 2013 by midas

[chiang mai]

mccw: we talked earlier in the thread about war, Syria and boots on the ground, I see this morning that the UK's Hague is making nosies along the lines of, "an invasion of Syria is on the cards" in response to the latest gas attack!

I think it's worse than that, or should I say I think it's closer than that.

It's sheer lunacy and criminal because the 10-year-old kid could tell you that this would be a false flag attack. All I keep asking myself is why, why, why, knowing what the consequences of this will be………………………………

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57599944/u.s-preps-for-possible-cruise-missile-attack-on-syrian-govt-forces/

We need to do this thing, now, regardless of the consequences.

I am very intrigued to know who you mean by “ we “ ?

Are you talking about the likes of George Soros and you?

I certainly don't believe you can possibly be referring to “ we “ as anything remotely like a group of people who seek and support democratic values because I think you'd find on both sides of the Atlantic NO ONE wants another war. Let these countries fix the myriad of problems within their own borders before they go interfering in other countries yet again.

And have you any idea what the "consequences " are likely to be? God help us all

p.s. I mean, I ask you, look at USA's record as to being able to accurately forecast the outcome of ANY war they have been involved with going back as far even as Vietnam?

The "we" I refer to is the global we and as things look presently this would seem to mean the US, but if it means others as well, so be it:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10263765/US-positioning-forces-for-possible-action-against-Syria.html

Yes I hear the part about, fix your own stuff at home before meddling in other peoples affairs, but frankly, a chemical weapons attack on a civillian community that caused over 1,600 deaths cannot and should not go unchecked. As for democratic values, where were the democratic values of the 1,600.

As for the consequences, sometimes it's right to take an action knowing that the fall out could be dire and I see this as one of those situations. A larger scale Middle East war, sunni vs shitite, Isreal and all that involves, Middle East oil, Nostradamus come true? To be honest, it might just be the answer to get it all sorted once and for all.

[mccw]

I hope they don't help the lunatics in to power.

---

Most likely i think the gas attack was the work of anti Assad forces

[midas]

I think it's worse than that, or should I say I think it's closer than that.

It's sheer lunacy and criminal because the 10-year-old kid could tell you that this would be a false flag attack. All I keep asking myself is why, why, why, knowing what the consequences of this will be………………………………

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57599944/u.s-preps-for-possible-cruise-missile-attack-on-syrian-govt-forces/

We need to do this thing, now, regardless of the consequences.

I am very intrigued to know who you mean by “ we “ ?

Are you talking about the likes of George Soros and you?

I certainly don't believe you can possibly be referring to “ we “ as anything remotely like a group of people who seek and support democratic values because I think you'd find on both sides of the Atlantic NO ONE wants another war. Let these countries fix the myriad of problems within their own borders before they go interfering in other countries yet again.

And have you any idea what the "consequences " are likely to be? God help us all

p.s. I mean, I ask you, look at USA's record as to being able to accurately forecast the outcome of ANY war they have been involved with going back as far even as Vietnam?

The "we" I refer to is the global we and as things look presently this would seem to mean the US, but if it means others as well, so be it:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10263765/US-positioning-forces-for-possible-action-against-Syria.html

Yes I hear the part about, fix your own stuff at home before meddling in other peoples affairs, but frankly, a chemical weapons attack on a civillian community that caused over 1,600 deaths cannot and should not go unchecked. As for democratic values, where were the democratic values of the 1,600.

As for the consequences, sometimes it's right to take an action knowing that the fall out could be dire and I see this as one of those situations. A larger scale Middle East war, sunni vs shitite, Isreal and all that involves, Middle East oil, Nostradamus come true? To be honest, it might just be the answer to get it all sorted once and for all.

Oh come on CM. don't drink the Kool-Aid so easily

On what information are you basing your judgement? On the same media channels that spewed garbage about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq 2003?

And you can dismiss RT all you like but these days they have far less reason to distort the truth than anyone.

Materials implicating Syrian govt in chemical attack prepared before incident – Russia

http://rt.com/news/syria-chemical-prepared-advance-901/