Financial Crisis

[mccw]

Economists seem to ignore sentiment and deal with models like the system is just a machine of numbers in and out- do this = this, but clearly as all these posts show- that's not how things work at all.

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[SheungWan]

Just what I was talking about. Sentiments power over the grim facts. Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Economists seem to ignore sentiment and deal with models like the system is just a machine of numbers in and out- do this = this, but clearly as all these posts show- that's not how things work at all. Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Declining bond rates are clearer than the above blah.

[mccw]

Just what I was talking about. Sentiments power over the grim facts. Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Economists seem to ignore sentiment and deal with models like the system is just a machine of numbers in and out- do this = this, but clearly as all these posts show- that's not how things work at all. Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Declining bond rates are clearer than the above blah.

Declining bond rates, while unemployment rises, yeah, makes perfect sense- that is- if you think the reason is a chase for yield rather than the countries actual economic fundamentals. If USA QE support for thier own bonds really was withdrawn and rates rose much then what do you think that would do to these med basket cases? Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Naam]

Spain

During the last 12 months Spanish government bond yields have declined.

Foreigners’ renewed appetite for Spanish sovereign debt pushed the average yield paid by the Treasury last year down to 2.45 percent, half a percentage point below the levels of 2012, and the second-lowest level after the 2.15 percent paid in 2009.

However, the impact of this in savings for the government in terms of interest payments was offset by the absolute increase in outstanding public debt to close to one trillion euros

http://elpais.com/elpais/2014/01/07/inenglish/1389095292_478848.html

no problem! according to renowned economists all what Signore Draghi of the ECB has to do is "QE-ing" all €U debt down to zero. anything he forgets will be written down or retired by other means, e.g. bonfires.

[mmh8]

I still dissapointed in Brown who was -an easily forgotten - PM in England at one point. He said he was going to save the world by doing some sort of financial manipulation. what a dishonest person

[midas]

Just what I was talking about. Sentiments power over the grim facts. Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Economists seem to ignore sentiment and deal with models like the system is just a machine of numbers in and out- do this = this, but clearly as all these posts show- that's not how things work at all. Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Declining bond rates are clearer than the above blah.

I don't think the 3.25 million unemployed people would believe that ?

[SheungWan]

I still dissapointed in Brown who was -an easily forgotten - PM in England at one point. He said he was going to save the world by doing some sort of financial manipulation. what a dishonest person

He did and it worked.

[mmh8]

jing lor? the world is saved. that's ok then. I will sleep better tonight. good chap that nigel brown or john lawson chap eh?

[mccw]

Bail-ins

Poo poo-ed here as if civilised / large economies would ever allow such a thing; now we see it is about to become the official legal channel and first resort for any and all future bank failiures in the EU!

""""

In the ever-complicated effort to form a true European banking union, policymakers closed out 2013 with a notable milestone: The Single Resolution Mechanism announced at a Dec. 18 meeting of national finance ministers in Brussels established a long-awaited framework for winding down failing banks in future crises. Italian Finance Minister Fabrizio Saccomanni and others hailed the agreement as the most important shift in euro-zone economic policy since the creation of the single currency. Critics lambasted the deal’s shortcomings, and Credit Suisse’s European Economics team called it “a convoluted step” toward a banking union. But it’s better than nothing.

Under the agreement, the first line of defense against future bank failures will be a so-called “bail-in” shouldered by banks’ large depositors (those with more than €100,000 in their accounts), shareholders and bondholders. If enacted, that measure will take effect in 2016, and will require that shareholders and creditors take losses equivalent to 8 percent of a lender’s total liabilities before national authorities can step in to rescue a bank. Should that prove insufficient, policymakers also agreed to create a €55 billion fund that would rescue ailing banks, with the caveat that the fund would only be allowed to pay up to an additional 5 percent of an institution’s total liabilities. No more than 10 percent of the fund could be disbursed in a single year without special permission.

The plan for the new resolution fund calls for it to be created gradually over the next 10 years through a levy on banks, thereby placing the responsibility for funding future bailouts squarely on the financial institutions that might need them, rather than on taxpayers and governments. At first, national governments will collect and administer payments from their own banks. Over the course of the decade, the national funds will be combined into one common pool that will then be available to banks throughout the region. “One good element of the agreement is that in the long run the Single Resolution Fund will be fully European,” Credit Suisse’s European Economics team noted last month. That’s not to say that national coffers will not be tapped in future financial crises. But having both strict bail-in rules as well as a resolution fund to call on ahead of government funds would have the effect of limiting the public’s financial exposure to future bailouts.

The European Council has set a March deadline to negotiate the finer logistical points of how levies from banks in individual EU countries will get pooled into a common resolution fund. If approved, the resolution mechanism will go into effect next year. European officials have yet to decide what to do in case a bank fails before the €55 billion fund has been fully established. One suggestion is that if both a bail-in and whatever interim funds banks have already kicked in to the resolution fund are inadequate to wind up a failing lender, national resolution authorities would be able to use sovereign funds or borrow from the existing €500 billion bailout fund known as the European Stability Mechanism.

The accord is far from perfect. The relatively small size of the resolution fund means it could prove too small to address big bank failures in a serious crisis, not to mention the fact that it won’t even be fully financed until 2025. The procedures proposed to actually access the fund will involve multiple decision-makers and approvals, making it potentially difficult to act in a timely manner during a crisis. Plus, the European Parliament can still delay the final approval of the SRM if individual countries have legal objections to the agreement.

The powers of the new structure pale in comparison to those of the U.S. Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, which is responsible for paying out insured deposits, selling bank assets and repaying creditors during a bank failure. In Europe, the Single Resolution Board that will decide when a bank is failing or likely to fail would still have to cede authority for implementing the resolution plan to officials in the bank’s home country. Of course, the FDIC is lucky enough to answer to only one government and can count on a credit line from the U.S. Treasury. By contrast, European efforts have to wrangle an unwieldy bloc of 28 nations—including large countries and tiny ones, prospering economies and those that are struggling—that already have their own existing laws. """"

- excerpt from biz insider app.

As u can see- the Cyprus event really was an experiment to see what the public will swallow.

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[SheungWan]

jing lor? the world is saved. that's ok then. I will sleep better tonight. good chap that nigel brown or john lawson chap eh?

You are thinking of Nigel Lawson, Mrs Thatcher's Chancellor of the Exchequer?

[Naam]

Bail-ins Poo poo-ed here as if civilised / large economies would ever allow such a thing; now we see it is about to become the official legal channel and first resort for any and all future bank failiures in the EU!

an utmost ignorant statement! in case of bank failures creditors holding cash always lost the amount of any cash not guaranteed and that pro rata minus existing positive assets of the bank. the same applies of course to share- and bondholders.

an excellent example was Barings (Nick Leeson).

[SheungWan]

Just what I was talking about. Sentiments power over the grim facts. Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Economists seem to ignore sentiment and deal with models like the system is just a machine of numbers in and out- do this = this, but clearly as all these posts show- that's not how things work at all. Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Declining bond rates are clearer than the above blah.

I don't think the 3.25 million unemployed people would believe that ?

Political crisis is not synonymous with financial crisis, though difficult to understand by the financially illiterate apparently.

[midas]

Just what I was talking about. Sentiments power over the grim facts. Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Declining bond rates are clearer than the above blah.

I don't think the 3.25 million unemployed people would believe that ?

Political crisis is not synonymous with financial crisis, though difficult to understand by the financially illiterate apparently.

oh god do we have to spell it out for you? Those unemployed people will never work again. Not only will they never generate taxes to fund the government but they will be a permanent financial burden on the government and society. Have you any idea of the crime statistics in these places ?- until the house cards collapses.

And you call that politics?

Edited January 9, 2014 by midas

[mccw]

Bail-ins Poo poo-ed here as if civilised / large economies would ever allow such a thing; now we see it is about to become the official legal channel and first resort for any and all future bank failiures in the EU!

an utmost ignorant statement! in case of bank failures creditors holding cash always lost the amount of any cash not guaranteed and that pro rata minus existing positive assets of the bank. the same applies of course to share- and bondholders.

an excellent example was Barings (Nick Leeson).

Oh yes - of course- except when they are bailed out. This is not a normal failure they are talking about above. Its about continuing business through a bail in and bail out combo. If the bank went bust as Baring's did then everybody loosing, except for amount covered by gov insurance, then it's be fair enough, standard, the above is not standard at all and removes responsibility, normal consequence from the system.

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[SheungWan]

oh god do we have to spell it out for you? Those unemployed people will never work again. Not only will they never generate taxes to fund the government but they will be a permanent financial burden on the government and society. Have you any idea of the crime statistics in these places ?- until the house cards collapses.

And you call that politics?

'We' being those who do not understand the significance of the varying price of capital presumably.

[mccw]

Mean while:

""China Is Spending $100 Billion On 4,100 Miles Of New Railway Lines This Year""

-biz insider app

That's 100billion just this year.

While West spends fortunes buying worthless "toxic" paper with what to show for it? While there are masses of unemployed and infrastructure is crumbling & national assets and monuments collapsing or being sold off for peanuts.

What a great system we have; what a relief we have adapted the rules to save the banks at all and every cost

Personally I'd rather we reform to break the banks down to be utilities for business and nation building.

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[mccw]

And what's that?What's the reason for the varying price in your view?

oh god do we have to spell it out for you? Those unemployed people will never work again. Not only will they never generate taxes to fund the government but they will be a permanent financial burden on the government and society. Have you any idea of the crime statistics in these places ?- until the house cards collapses. And you call that politics?

'We' being those who do not understand the significance of the varying price of capital presumably.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[midas]

oh god do we have to spell it out for you? Those unemployed people will never work again. Not only will they never generate taxes to fund the government but they will be a permanent financial burden on the government and society. Have you any idea of the crime statistics in these places ?- until the house cards collapses.

And you call that politics?

'We' being those who do not understand the significance of the varying price of capital presumably.

Can you please provide hard evidence as to how exactly the current price of capital in relation to Spain and Italy is directly benefiting its citizens?

[SheungWan]

oh god do we have to spell it out for you? Those unemployed people will never work again. Not only will they never generate taxes to fund the government but they will be a permanent financial burden on the government and society. Have you any idea of the crime statistics in these places ?- until the house cards collapses.

And you call that politics?

'We' being those who do not understand the significance of the varying price of capital presumably.

Can you please provide hard evidence as to how exactly the current price of capital in relation to Spain and Italy is directly benefiting its citizens?

If you are unable to work that one out then you might consider enrolling on a simple course in economics.

[mmh8]

surely he was not part of the plan to save the world too? oh him of the curly quiff

jing lor? the world is saved. that's ok then. I will sleep better tonight. good chap that nigel brown or john lawson chap eh?

You are thinking of Nigel Lawson, Mrs Thatcher's Chancellor of the Exchequer?

[mmh8]

Saw a great advert on TV today, on kids channel about saving money, starting propaganda early, put your money in the bank to make lots of money on your money, or watchit lose value,

Bail-ins Poo poo-ed here as if civilised / large economies would ever allow such a thing; now we see it is about to become the official legal channel and first resort for any and all future bank failiures in the EU!

an utmost ignorant statement! in case of bank failures creditors holding cash always lost the amount of any cash not guaranteed and that pro rata minus existing positive assets of the bank. the same applies of course to share- and bondholders.

an excellent example was Barings (Nick Leeson).

Oh yes - of course- except when they are bailed out. This is not a normal failure they are talking about above. Its about continuing business through a bail in and bail out combo. If the bank went bust as Baring's did then everybody loosing, except for amount covered by gov insurance, then it's be fair enough, standard, the above is not standard at all and removes responsibility, normal consequence from the system.


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[SheungWan]

surely he was not part of the plan to save the world too? oh him of the curly quiff

jing lor? the world is saved. that's ok then. I will sleep better tonight. good chap that nigel brown or john lawson chap eh?

You are thinking of Nigel Lawson, Mrs Thatcher's Chancellor of the Exchequer?

No, but interestingly enough it might be argued that some of the structural labour practices providing difficulties for many European states were addressed by the Thatcher government in the UK decades previously and permitted a faster recovery out of the financial crisis.

[SheungWan]

Saw a great advert on TV today, on kids channel about saving money, starting propaganda early, put your money in the bank to make lots of money on your money, or watchit lose value,

Bail-ins Poo poo-ed here as if civilised / large economies would ever allow such a thing; now we see it is about to become the official legal channel and first resort for any and all future bank failiures in the EU!

an utmost ignorant statement! in case of bank failures creditors holding cash always lost the amount of any cash not guaranteed and that pro rata minus existing positive assets of the bank. the same applies of course to share- and bondholders.

an excellent example was Barings (Nick Leeson).

Oh yes - of course- except when they are bailed out. This is not a normal failure they are talking about above. Its about continuing business through a bail in and bail out combo. If the bank went bust as Baring's did then everybody loosing, except for amount covered by gov insurance, then it's be fair enough, standard, the above is not standard at all and removes responsibility, normal consequence from the system.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It would be a good idea if personal finance was a subject offered in schools. Mostly kids just seem to adopt a home-based entitlement outlook of Gimme! Gimme! Gimme! within the theory of Money Grows On Trees. This doesn't seem to change much as they get older unfortunately.

[midas]

oh god do we have to spell it out for you? Those unemployed people will never work again. Not only will they never generate taxes to fund the government but they will be a permanent financial burden on the government and society. Have you any idea of the crime statistics in these places ?- until the house cards collapses.

And you call that politics?

'We' being those who do not understand the significance of the varying price of capital presumably.

Can you please provide hard evidence as to how exactly the current price of capital in relation to Spain and Italy is directly benefiting its citizens?

If you are unable to work that one out then you might consider enrolling on a simple course in economics.

yeah…….. you've got nothing as usual.

you can't even respond to mccw’s question in post number 14508

But silly to expect a lot about truth from an apologist for the bwanksters.

Edited January 10, 2014 by midas

[midas]

If You Are Waiting For An “Economic Collapse”, Just Look At What Is Happening To Europe

Over the past several years, most of the attention has been on the economic struggles of Greece, Spain and Portugal and without a doubt things continue to get even worse in those nations. But in 2014 and 2015, Italy and France will start to take center stage. France has the 5th largest economy on the planet, and Italy has the 9th largest economy on the planet, and at this point both of those economies are rapidly falling to pieces. Expect both France and Italy to make major headlines throughout the rest of 2014. I have always maintained that the next major wave of the economic collapse would begin in Europe, and that is exactly what is happening. in Spain 20,000 people applied for just 400 jobs in 48 hours. The following are just a few of the statistics that show that an "economic collapse" is happening in Europe right now...

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/if-you-are-waiting-for-an-economic-collapse-just-look-at-what-is-happening-to-europe

Edited January 10, 2014 by midas

[mccw]

"""

China's annual trade in goods passed the $4trn (£2.4trn) mark for the first time in 2013, official data has revealed, confirming its position as the world's biggest trading nation.

Exports from the world's number two economy rose 7.9% to $2.21trn (£1.34trn), while imports increased 7.3% to $1.95trn (£1.18trn), the General Administration of Customs (GAC) announced.

The trade surplus stood at $259.75bn (£157bn), up 12.8% from 2012.

Total trade came to $4.16trn, an increase of 7.6%, just below the government's 8% target.

The total was a record high and effectively confirmed a historic geo-economic shift, making China the world's biggest trader of physical goods, not including services.

Reports last February said the United States' total trade in goods was lower than China's in 2012, but GAC said due to differences in calculation methods the change happened for the first time in 2013.

"""

-sky news app

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[mccw]

"""

The operator of Heathrow airport has slammed a price cap limiting how much it can charge airlines to use the west London site.

The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has imposed a far greater price cap on the amount it can charge airlines than it originally proposed.

From April, prices can only rise by 1.5% below the retail prices index (RPI) measure of inflation at Britain's busiest airport.

Heathrow, whose owners include Spain's Ferrovial and the sovereign wealth funds of !!!!!!!!Qatar, China and Singapore,!!!!! described the cap as draconian.

"""

-sky news app

Just to illustrate my point.

Why is it foriegn states can invest and make money out of Britian's infrastructure, airports, power, etc etc but we as a country can't manage it or even join in ourselves? How about some of that printed money going in to that rather than feeding a bunch of city gamblers?

Apologists for the "financial" led/ run/ co-opted western system could do with taking a look at the reality of the world today rather than trumpeting outdated dogma that west is Number 1

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[MJP]

^^ Post #14514 SheungWan,

If you have time, write a syllabus. Because this is at the root cause of many problems today. Kids are not receiving education from responsible parents, mostly because the parents themselves are irresponsible.

[SheungWan]

^^ Post #14514 SheungWan,

If you have time, write a syllabus. Because this is at the root cause of many problems today. Kids are not receiving education from responsible parents, mostly because the parents themselves are irresponsible.

There is a bigger problem of dumbed down assessments and a flight from 'difficult' subjects in public education.

Hey, there are even contributors to this forum who are unable to work out the difference between higher and lower interest rates. You would think kindergarten stuff, but apparently a mountain to climb for some.

[MJP]

^^ Post #14514 SheungWan,

If you have time, write a syllabus. Because this is at the root cause of many problems today. Kids are not receiving education from responsible parents, mostly because the parents themselves are irresponsible.

There is a bigger problem of dumbed down assessments and a flight from 'difficult' subjects in public education.

Hey, there are even contributors to this forum who are unable to work out the difference between higher and lower interest rates. You would think kindergarten stuff, but apparently a mountain to climb for some.

What I've found most shocking over the past few years is friends who've bought houses at ludicrous capital values yet at the lowest interest rates in history saying "Dunno?" when I ask how they'll finance such debt when interest rates rise.

These are 25-35 year mortgages. I mean, like nothing untoward is going to happen in that period?