Financial Crisis

[mccw]

I'm not a fan of the corporate tax cheats , google, apple etc- but I'm an even less of a fan of the EU muddling in to national affairs - this from the midst of a Reuters app piece

"""

Member states' tax incentives should never be used to lure profits away from where they should rightfully be taxed," EU tax commissioner Algirdas Semetas told a meeting of EU finance ministers in Luxembourg on Friday, according to the text of his speech published by the EU. "We must verify that the principles of fair play are not being undermined.“

If the Commission can prove Ireland agreed tax treatments which diverge from international rules, it could deem any corporate tax savings to be a form of subsidy which must be halted or even repaid.

"""

So low taxes can be called a subsidy now? So the EU is giving itself the power to declare what tax rates are acceptable or bit- soon they will be dictating an acceptable range only somewhere no more than a few percent below Germany's probably.

The obvious answer for responding to the abuse of the tax systems by shifting profits around would be for national governments to declare that taxes should be paid on sales in thier territory and that payments, royalty or otherwise, with in the same group of companies is not an acceptable deduction/ "expense".

With Junker the federalist lining up for commission president with German backing I can only assume that the lack of national action is to excuse the EU taking such above actions unilaterally and playing the game, the useful propaganda for the federalists that the EU are only ones able to stand up to those nasty corporations - a useful excuse to undemocratically snatch more power and impose a unified tax structure. Another step in the federalist plan playing out over the decades.

[SheungWan]

Russian hookers in the Moscow and St Petersberg hotels used to have a charge rate of $50 for the night. Unless that has changed I would discount the above article.

[MJP]

Deprivation Britain: Poverty is getting worse - even among working families, according to major new study

The research found that rises in the cost of living mean a full-time job is no longer enough to prevent some people from falling into poverty. One in every six adults in paid work is now defined as "poor".

• More than 500,000 children live in families who cannot afford to feed them properly
• 18 million people cannot afford adequate housing conditions
• 12 million people are too poor to engage in common social activities
• About 5.5 million adults go without essential clothing

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/deprivation-britain-major-new-survey-reveals-that-poverty-is-getting-worse--even-among-working-families-9547039.html

The greed is definitely getting worse at the top. I see it daily and it's at the expense of people who work long hours in dangerous, filthy conditions. Not only are these guys denied overtime, they don't even get paid for the hours they do. Say they do 14 hours in a day, they get paid 10 hours. Such is the trap they're caught in they simply can't walk away. They are poor. They are unrepresented. They are the 99%.

Meanwhile, I watch the 'bosses' turn up and take say £50k in cash away in the boot of the £150k car to blow on materialistic <deleted>. Undeclared obviously,

Myself, well I'm still waiting on payment for work completed in mid-2013 while they expect me to take all blame should something go wrong and someone gets hurt, even though the firm won't put the blokes through the training, such as CPCS operator competence tickets for excavators as one example.

This is a well respected firm by the way.

Bu!!sh!t Britain.

[mccw]

""""

"Just as oil prices had become increasingly stable, we reckon the risk for an oil price spike is now the highest since the global crisis," said Christian Keller, an economist at Barclays. "We think a further price spike of 10 to 15 percent from here is not implausible," he said.

"""

Excerpt from biz insider app

[SheungWan]

An example of the chasing yield due to such low interest rates:

""

Fortress sold $405 million worth of debt, some of it in the form of "payment-in-kind" notes, or bonds that don't pay a bondholder anything until they mature.

These notes are deeply subordinated in the capital structure. This means that there's a long line of senior debtholders who have to get paid before these subordinated investors are considered. This is a particularly disadvantaged position in the capital structure during bankruptcies.

The report quoted one banker close to the deal that asked, "Where can you get 12% yield?" The banker said, "You can move down the credit spectrum, buy longer maturities, or move into something a bit more off-the-run in a company that you like, which this deal is a good example of."

Reuters noted that the bonds are selling for more than 100 cents on the dollar in the secondary market, indicating strong demand for this type of debt.

In short, investors are looking everywhere and anywhere to get a decent return on their capital in this.

Some market watchers, however, will see this hunger for high risk as a sign of complacency and recklessness in the financial markets.

""

Bit from biz insider

Some market watchers see this. Some market watchers see that.

[SheungWan]

""""

"Just as oil prices had become increasingly stable, we reckon the risk for an oil price spike is now the highest since the global crisis," said Christian Keller, an economist at Barclays. "We think a further price spike of 10 to 15 percent from here is not implausible," he said.

"""

Excerpt from biz insider app

So should I sell my oil shares now or hold on a little longer?

[Naam]

An example of the chasing yield due to such low interest rates:

""

Fortress sold $405 million worth of debt, some of it in the form of "payment-in-kind" notes, or bonds that don't pay a bondholder anything until they mature.

These notes are deeply subordinated in the capital structure. This means that there's a long line of senior debtholders who have to get paid before these subordinated investors are considered. This is a particularly disadvantaged position in the capital structure during bankruptcies.

The report quoted one banker close to the deal that asked, "Where can you get 12% yield?" The banker said, "You can move down the credit spectrum, buy longer maturities, or move into something a bit more off-the-run in a company that you like, which this deal is a good example of."

Reuters noted that the bonds are selling for more than 100 cents on the dollar in the secondary market, indicating strong demand for this type of debt.

In short, investors are looking everywhere and anywhere to get a decent return on their capital in this.

Some market watchers, however, will see this hunger for high risk as a sign of complacency and recklessness in the financial markets.

""

Bit from biz insider

Some market watchers see this. Some market watchers see that.

some other market watchers, who are not totally ignorant, are well aware that investors exist who are liable to pay income tax but not capital gains tax. buying a "PIK" bond which only provides capital gains saves them a bundle which might increase their yield by another 40-50%.

market watchers and journalists of "insider publications"... oh well...

Edited June 22, 2014 by Naam

[Naam]

mccw, on 14 Jun 2014 - 19:26, said:

I'd be more worried about spiking oil prices; 200 dollars, 400. I heard these numbers bandied around on bloomberg yesterday depending on how serious Iraq turns out; then there's Libya on the edge too. 200 dollar oil enough to depress western spending and push them all in to recession? Probably given how wafer thin the growth is. How that spirals through the debt pyramid is anyone's guess.

“There’s an anxiety premium of $5 to $10 in the price for WTI,” Nansen Saleri, chief executive officer of Quantum Reservoir Impact LLC in Houston, said by phone last week. “There’s a risk right now, but it’s a manageable risk because global supply exceeds demand,” said Saleri, the former head of reservoir management at Saudi Arabian Oil Co.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-22/bullish-oil-wagers-reach-record-as-fighting-engulfs-iraq.html

gloom&doomers vs. realists

[NeverSure]

tick tock………………..

America's Looming Pension Disaster?

America’s sprawling 401(k) pension system will turn cash flow negative in 2016, threatening disruption for asset managers and selling of equities, according to analysis by Cerulli Associates, a research house.

http://pensionpulse.blogspot.com/2014/06/americas-looming-pension-disaster.html

Well, read your link again. It sounds like the 401k fund managers will hurt as fund balances go down due to baby boomers retiring. The good thing about 401k's is that they are individually identified by person, as each person and employer contributes.

As for public retirement funds, that's different because they don't actually put enough money into them to back up their promises. Many government entities have made retirement promises that they probably can't keep. Many public employees double dip as they draw their government employee pension and also draw full Social Security. Often their government pension is about equal to the salary they were getting when working. So they get a big raise when they retire by adding Social Security income.

Frankly I don't mind if those "civil servants" get their snouts jerked back from the trough.

[mccw]

""""

"Just as oil prices had become increasingly stable, we reckon the risk for an oil price spike is now the highest since the global crisis," said Christian Keller, an economist at Barclays. "We think a further price spike of 10 to 15 percent from here is not implausible," he said.

"""

Excerpt from biz insider app

So should I sell my oil shares now or hold on a little longer?

Sell everything immediately. The end is nigh ! 55

[midas]

Deprivation Britain: Poverty is getting worse - even among working families, according to major new study

The research found that rises in the cost of living mean a full-time job is no longer enough to prevent some people from falling into poverty. One in every six adults in paid work is now defined as "poor".

• More than 500,000 children live in families who cannot afford to feed them properly
• 18 million people cannot afford adequate housing conditions
• 12 million people are too poor to engage in common social activities
• About 5.5 million adults go without essential clothing

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/deprivation-britain-major-new-survey-reveals-that-poverty-is-getting-worse--even-among-working-families-9547039.html

The greed is definitely getting worse at the top. I see it daily and it's at the expense of people who work long hours in dangerous, filthy conditions. Not only are these guys denied overtime, they don't even get paid for the hours they do. Say they do 14 hours in a day, they get paid 10 hours. Such is the trap they're caught in they simply can't walk away. They are poor. They are unrepresented. They are the 99%.

Meanwhile, I watch the 'bosses' turn up and take say £50k in cash away in the boot of the £150k car to blow on materialistic <deleted>. Undeclared obviously,

Myself, well I'm still waiting on payment for work completed in mid-2013 while they expect me to take all blame should something go wrong and someone gets hurt, even though the firm won't put the blokes through the training, such as CPCS operator competence tickets for excavators as one example.

This is a well respected firm by the way.

Bu!!sh!t Britain.

MJP a second article in the Guardian this time. Just to drive the point home. It is interesting to read some of the 1476 comments following the article to get people's reaction.

I bet David Cameron is wishing this subject wasn't being emphasised so much in the newspapers

Poverty hits twice as many British households as 30 years ago

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/19/poverty-hits-twice-as-many-british-households

[mccw]

^ 30 years ago people often still had toilets down the garden, no games consoles and the other rubbish.

I know people do struggle but the definition of poverty in the uk compared to what is real poverty, homelessness to living in Shacks with out sanitation or access to health services or schooling- really no body is truly poor in the UK. I find these definitions of "poverty" bandied about in the western press and instigating such a degree of self pity as really kinda gross.

[midas]

^ 30 years ago people often still had toilets down the garden, no games consoles and the other rubbish.

I know people do struggle but the definition of poverty in the uk compared to what is real poverty, homelessness to living in Shacks with out sanitation or access to health services or schooling- really no body is truly poor in the UK. I find these definitions of "poverty" bandied about in the western press and instigating such a degree of self pity as really kinda gross.

I haven't even been back to the UK for many years so i dont know and MJP may be the best person to comment on your response.

But to be fair to the authors of both articles they haven't implied they are referring to absolute poverty (which you are when you talk about living in shacks) and perhaps are only talking in terms of relative poverty (defined contextually as economic inequality in the location or society in which people live ).

[mccw]

^ These kind of reports are always written/ commissioned by self serving interest groups, such as unions, charities and political think tanks with an agenda.

I agree with MJP though and have seen first hand the inequality in the UK and I worked at minimum wage myself for a few years when younger. I see that the system could and should be changed in ways that could benefit those at the bottom. Such as massive house building programs, lower taxes and raising the no tax threshold. Eliminate rafts of useless and business stifling regulation, health and safety, licensing etc etc. I could go on. I'm not excusing the current &lt;deleted&gt;. BUT I find it gross people calling themselves poor while sitting in insulated, heated houses, with hot water, indoor toilets, and enjoying free schooling for their kids and a government safety net, free health care, and all the rest of it. They are not poor. They are rich! They only look poor compared to the super rich in the bubble their own country.

For example. Think of all human history. Or even the last 100 or even 50 or even 30 years. Honestly - people in the UK today have a more materially comfortable life than at any point in the last thousands of years. Maybe modern families need two working parents to afford the modern life comfort- but it is the modern life; it is with soft mattresses and new clothes and sneakers- throwing stuff away rather than fixing it; Having holidays and playing with gadgets. Buying food from supermarket imported from every corner of the world. People take everything like this for granted and moan because they don't have as much as the exceptionally wealthy that they see on TV or magazine or advertisements. Only a few generations ago it was Victorian work houses or farm labour ing for the masses.

I think it's a kind of mental sickness brought on by the advertising industry. This constant feeling or unsatisfaction and of needing more.

I think saying 30% of the UK population is poor really degrades what is real poverty, abject poverty; the kind that is far more desperate and needs tackling.

Like I just came back from Cambodia , where i went to some charity projects. For example, 150 dollars is what it costs to send a kid to school for 6 months who otherwise probably wouldn't go; now I know personally people on benefits in the UK who spend more than that on intoxicants monthly. Benefits people are considered poor by those reports but they have free money and free rent for doing sweet f a. When I see the poor in the rest of the world in these countries that I travel around and then think about these moaning benefits scumbags in the UK I feel that it is sick and shameful.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[MJP]

^ 30 years ago people often still had toilets down the garden, no games consoles and the other rubbish.

I know people do struggle but the definition of poverty in the uk compared to what is real poverty, homelessness to living in Shacks with out sanitation or access to health services or schooling- really no body is truly poor in the UK. I find these definitions of "poverty" bandied about in the western press and instigating such a degree of self pity as really kinda gross.

That's quite right, they're not poor on a global scale. But it's on the slide and shamefully the poor are typically the hardest workers. Britain has become a usurious culture of the rentier class. These are referred to as 'stakeholders', a term ironically coined by the last Labour government.

[SheungWan]

^ 30 years ago people often still had toilets down the garden, no games consoles and the other rubbish.

I know people do struggle but the definition of poverty in the uk compared to what is real poverty, homelessness to living in Shacks with out sanitation or access to health services or schooling- really no body is truly poor in the UK. I find these definitions of "poverty" bandied about in the western press and instigating such a degree of self pity as really kinda gross.

That's quite right, they're not poor on a global scale. But it's on the slide and shamefully the poor are typically the hardest workers. Britain has become a usurious culture of the rentier class. These are referred to as 'stakeholders', a term ironically coined by the last Labour government.

Maybe you are just telling us that you have no property in the UK to rent out and are a member of the poverty-stricken no property to rentier out class.

[MJP]

^ 30 years ago people often still had toilets down the garden, no games consoles and the other rubbish.

I know people do struggle but the definition of poverty in the uk compared to what is real poverty, homelessness to living in Shacks with out sanitation or access to health services or schooling- really no body is truly poor in the UK. I find these definitions of "poverty" bandied about in the western press and instigating such a degree of self pity as really kinda gross.

That's quite right, they're not poor on a global scale. But it's on the slide and shamefully the poor are typically the hardest workers. Britain has become a usurious culture of the rentier class. These are referred to as 'stakeholders', a term ironically coined by the last Labour government.

Maybe you are just telling us that you have no property in the UK to rent out and are a member of the poverty-stricken no property to rentier out class.

Home have, no mortgage. Also two in Thailand. Not a BTL though.

No I speak of the millions who support government through endless tax, the BTL class through usurious rents and of course the banker class and yet who are still treated as disposable 'human resources'.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[SheungWan]

^ 30 years ago people often still had toilets down the garden, no games consoles and the other rubbish.

I know people do struggle but the definition of poverty in the uk compared to what is real poverty, homelessness to living in Shacks with out sanitation or access to health services or schooling- really no body is truly poor in the UK. I find these definitions of "poverty" bandied about in the western press and instigating such a degree of self pity as really kinda gross.

That's quite right, they're not poor on a global scale. But it's on the slide and shamefully the poor are typically the hardest workers. Britain has become a usurious culture of the rentier class. These are referred to as 'stakeholders', a term ironically coined by the last Labour government.

Maybe you are just telling us that you have no property in the UK to rent out and are a member of the poverty-stricken no property to rentier out class.

Home have, no mortgage. Also two in Thailand. Not a BTL though.

No I speak of the millions who support government through endless tax, the BTL class through usurious rents and of course the banker class and yet who are still treated as disposable 'human resources'.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Plenty of guys in Thailand doing BTL to generate income and happily ignoring those who obsess about finance capital and all the other conspiracy baggage attached. And nothing magical about human resources for anyone who has ever run a business by the way.

Edited June 24, 2014 by SheungWan

[ExpatJ]

^ 30 years ago people often still had toilets down the garden, no games consoles and the other rubbish.

I know people do struggle but the definition of poverty in the uk compared to what is real poverty, homelessness to living in Shacks with out sanitation or access to health services or schooling- really no body is truly poor in the UK. I find these definitions of "poverty" bandied about in the western press and instigating such a degree of self pity as really kinda gross.

That's quite right, they're not poor on a global scale. But it's on the slide and shamefully the poor are typically the hardest workers. Britain has become a usurious culture of the rentier class. These are referred to as 'stakeholders', a term ironically coined by the last Labour government.

Maybe you are just telling us that you have no property in the UK to rent out and are a member of the poverty-stricken no property to rentier out class.

Home have, no mortgage. Also two in Thailand. Not a BTL though.

No I speak of the millions who support government through endless tax, the BTL class through usurious rents and of course the banker class and yet who are still treated as disposable 'human resources'.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I have a Buy to Let property and i worked hard to earn money to buy it.

Having said that, there is a problem in that the the top end of society- politicians, bankers, wealthy professionals, all benefit from the modern economy which they all own and run. The Bottom 80% are being left behind and most of them do not understand what is happening- that the top 20% are using govt tax payer funds to support banks and the financial system to the benefit of the top 20%. Thankfully me and my family are in the top 20%, but i hate to see what is happening. I give it less than 100 years before the top 20% live in gated cities/countries (Singapore with 15% population being millionaire is a good example of an emerging rich enclave, Manhattan, London could also be easily gated) while the poor will live in slum like, un policed areas , with some bused into to the rich communities to provide service sector employment.

Edited June 24, 2014 by ExpatJ

[midas]

That's quite right, they're not poor on a global scale. But it's on the slide and shamefully the poor are typically the hardest workers. Britain has become a usurious culture of the rentier class. These are referred to as 'stakeholders', a term ironically coined by the last Labour government.

Maybe you are just telling us that you have no property in the UK to rent out and are a member of the poverty-stricken no property to rentier out class.

Home have, no mortgage. Also two in Thailand. Not a BTL though.

No I speak of the millions who support government through endless tax, the BTL class through usurious rents and of course the banker class and yet who are still treated as disposable 'human resources'.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I have a Buy to Let property and i worked hard to earn money to buy it.

Having said that, there is a problem in that the the top end of society- politicians, bankers, wealthy professionals, all benefit from the modern economy which they all own and run. The Bottom 80% are being left behind and most of them do not understand what is happening- that the top 20% are using govt tax payer funds to support banks and the financial system to the benefit of the top 20%. Thankfully me and my family are in the top 20%, but i hate to see what is happening. I give it less than 100 years before the top 20% live in gated cities/countries (Singapore with 15% population being millionaire is a good example of an emerging rich enclave, Manhattan, London could also be easily gated) while the poor will live in slum like, un policed areas , with some bused into to the rich communities to provide service sector employment.

And even more futuristically perhaps even like the conditions depicted in the movie 'Elysium' with Jodie Foster.

[midas]

^ 30 years ago people often still had toilets down the garden, no games consoles and the other rubbish.

I know people do struggle but the definition of poverty in the uk compared to what is real poverty, homelessness to living in Shacks with out sanitation or access to health services or schooling- really no body is truly poor in the UK. I find these definitions of "poverty" bandied about in the western press and instigating such a degree of self pity as really kinda gross.

That's quite right, they're not poor on a global scale. But it's on the slide and shamefully the poor are typically the hardest workers. Britain has become a usurious culture of the rentier class. These are referred to as 'stakeholders', a term ironically coined by the last Labour government.

Yesterday's Wall Street Journal was discussing the abysmal savings rate in US. (Twenty-six percent of Americans have no emergency savings and two-thirds of people in the U.S. don’t have the recommended six months of expenses saved)

what is the personal savings rate like in the UK?

In the old days in the UK everyone had some kind of savings, even if it was only savings certificates you bought at the post office

http://blogs.wsj.com/numbers/one-in-four-americans-has-no-emergency-savings-1467/?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLE_Video_Top

Edited June 24, 2014 by midas

[SheungWan]

^ 30 years ago people often still had toilets down the garden, no games consoles and the other rubbish.

I know people do struggle but the definition of poverty in the uk compared to what is real poverty, homelessness to living in Shacks with out sanitation or access to health services or schooling- really no body is truly poor in the UK. I find these definitions of "poverty" bandied about in the western press and instigating such a degree of self pity as really kinda gross.

That's quite right, they're not poor on a global scale. But it's on the slide and shamefully the poor are typically the hardest workers. Britain has become a usurious culture of the rentier class. These are referred to as 'stakeholders', a term ironically coined by the last Labour government.

Yesterday's Wall Street Journal was discussing the abysmal savings rate in US. (Twenty-six percent of Americans have no emergency savings and two-thirds of people in the U.S. don’t have the recommended six months of expenses saved)

what is the personal savings rate like in the UK?

In the old days in the UK everyone had some kind of savings, even if it was only savings certificates you bought at the post office

http://blogs.wsj.com/numbers/one-in-four-americans-has-no-emergency-savings-1467/?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLE_Video_Top

In the good old days in the UK we sent the kids up the chimneys to clean them and learn some manners.

[SheungWan]

I have a Buy to Let property and i worked hard to earn money to buy it.

Having said that, there is a problem in that the the top end of society- politicians, bankers, wealthy professionals, all benefit from the modern economy which they all own and run. The Bottom 80% are being left behind and most of them do not understand what is happening- that the top 20% are using govt tax payer funds to support banks and the financial system to the benefit of the top 20%. Thankfully me and my family are in the top 20%, but i hate to see what is happening. I give it less than 100 years before the top 20% live in gated cities/countries (Singapore with 15% population being millionaire is a good example of an emerging rich enclave, Manhattan, London could also be easily gated) while the poor will live in slum like, un policed areas , with some bused into to the rich communities to provide service sector employment.

In a 100 years England will still not have won the World Cup for a second time. And bathrooms will still be painted in magnolia.

[mccw]

The Elysium movie is basically how it is today; but rather than space and earth it's the affluent USA compared to south of the boarder, the slums of the Americas. It's already reality. The "poor" USA Americans are like the gov workers on the Elysium space craft- living in relative heaven by comparison to the world below.

[Naam]

I have a Buy to Let property and i worked hard to earn money to buy it.

Having said that, there is a problem in that the the top end of society- politicians, bankers, wealthy professionals, all benefit from the modern economy which they all own and run. The Bottom 80% are being left behind and most of them do not understand what is happening- that the top 20% are using govt tax payer funds to support banks and the financial system to the benefit of the top 20%. Thankfully me and my family are in the top 20%, but i hate to see what is happening. I give it less than 100 years before the top 20% live in gated cities/countries (Singapore with 15% population being millionaire is a good example of an emerging rich enclave, Manhattan, London could also be easily gated) while the poor will live in slum like, un policed areas , with some bused into to the rich communities to provide service sector employment.

In a 100 years England will still not have won the World Cup for a second time. And bathrooms will still be painted in magnolia.

they didn't win the first time. the cup was awarded by a referee

[chiang mai]

You've had long enough to get over sour grapes, what is your problem, winners are winners, end of!

[Naam]

I have a Buy to Let property and i worked hard to earn money to buy it.

Having said that, there is a problem in that the the top end of society- politicians, bankers, wealthy professionals, all benefit from the modern economy which they all own and run. The Bottom 80% are being left behind and most of them do not understand what is happening- that the top 20% are using govt tax payer funds to support banks and the financial system to the benefit of the top 20%. Thankfully me and my family are in the top 20%, but i hate to see what is happening. I give it less than 100 years before the top 20% live in gated cities/countries (Singapore with 15% population being millionaire is a good example of an emerging rich enclave, Manhattan, London could also be easily gated) while the poor will live in slum like, un policed areas , with some bused into to the rich communities to provide service sector employment.

that 15% of Singapores citizens are millionaires is extremely misleading because that includes the property value in which these "millionaires" are living, a value that is totally irrelevant if no additonal million or millions exist.

[Naam]

You've had long enough to get over sour grapes, what is your problem, winners are winners, end of!

i stated a fact and personally couldn't care less who wins or lose some peasant sports.

[ExpatJ]

I have a Buy to Let property and i worked hard to earn money to buy it.

Having said that, there is a problem in that the the top end of society- politicians, bankers, wealthy professionals, all benefit from the modern economy which they all own and run. The Bottom 80% are being left behind and most of them do not understand what is happening- that the top 20% are using govt tax payer funds to support banks and the financial system to the benefit of the top 20%. Thankfully me and my family are in the top 20%, but i hate to see what is happening. I give it less than 100 years before the top 20% live in gated cities/countries (Singapore with 15% population being millionaire is a good example of an emerging rich enclave, Manhattan, London could also be easily gated) while the poor will live in slum like, un policed areas , with some bused into to the rich communities to provide service sector employment.

that 15% of Singapores citizens are millionaires is extremely misleading because that includes the property value in which these "millionaires" are living, a value that is totally irrelevant if no additonal million or millions exist.

Well if it includes property values then it will be much more than 15%. Costs a million $ to get a standard 2-3 br apartment in new building these days!

Sent from my SM-N900 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Naam]

I have a Buy to Let property and i worked hard to earn money to buy it.

Having said that, there is a problem in that the the top end of society- politicians, bankers, wealthy professionals, all benefit from the modern economy which they all own and run. The Bottom 80% are being left behind and most of them do not understand what is happening- that the top 20% are using govt tax payer funds to support banks and the financial system to the benefit of the top 20%. Thankfully me and my family are in the top 20%, but i hate to see what is happening. I give it less than 100 years before the top 20% live in gated cities/countries (Singapore with 15% population being millionaire is a good example of an emerging rich enclave, Manhattan, London could also be easily gated) while the poor will live in slum like, un policed areas , with some bused into to the rich communities to provide service sector employment.

that 15% of Singapores citizens are millionaires is extremely misleading because that includes the property value in which these "millionaires" are living, a value that is totally irrelevant if no additonal million or millions exist.

Well if it includes property values then it will be much more than 15%. Costs a million $ to get a standard 2-3 br apartment in new building these days!

Sent from my SM-N900 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

spend a week in Singapore, look around and find out how wrong you are.