Financial Crisis

[flying]

now the question is is "what are the people going to do about it Who's going to get mad enough to start a revolt."

let's face reality. nobody will do anything except complaining or bitching in a forum or blogspot. by the way,

p.s. nobody seems to realise or care that the majority of statements such as "w/o BS" originate from websites which deal in or promote precious metals and condemn "fiat money"

Personally I would hope for something like a tax revolt & am doing my part to further that.....

But I must admit the thing about the arms build up that I spoke of before continues & has accelerated beyond belief.

Nov 08 = 1,529,635

Dec 08 = 1,523,426

Jan 09 = 1,213,885

I am betting Jan 09 would have been much higher if not for the shortages.

Will be interesting to see the Fed numbers of purchases for Feb, March & April as it continues.

Ammunition has been sold in quantities that make these number look tiny.

I wonder if they are maxing their credit cards?

Did you know that for three consecutive months Americans have purchased more than enough guns to outfit every soldier in the Chinese Army? How about Every Chinese soldier & every Indian Soldier? Those are the two largest standing armies in the world isn't it?

That does make you wonder as it can be for one of two things. Defense or Offense

Yes I know Naam you hate you tube but the numbers are verified on the Fed ATF sites

As for what the economics article said & what type of internet site it came from I know what your saying but I dont see the problem.

Just because someone has a reason why they are losing faith in Fiat & has invested in PM's does not make what they are saying about that situation irrelevant or not interesting. I found some of his analogies pretty interesting.

I mean if I were interested in investing Fiat in stocks & went to a stock site would that be tell tale?

Edited April 29, 2009 by flying

[flying]

"Also a link at the end for the book free."

And it's worth every penny.

Have you read

The Creature From Jekyll Island" by G. Edward Griffin ?

You thought is was a waste of time?

I have not read it yet but had always heard it was a good read.

So when I saw this audio I thought I could listen to it in the truck on a long drive.

What did you not like about the book?

In fact out of the 143 long list of reviews at good read I must admit yours is the first I have seen that did not like it.

Please tell us why?

Edited April 29, 2009 by flying

[flying]

New Martin Armstrong Paper out 4/28/09

http://www.scribd.com/doc/14723516/ButThey-Cant-Do-That42809

[Naam]

1. Did you know that for three consecutive months Americans have purchased more than enough guns to outfit every soldier in the Chinese Army? How about Every Chinese soldier & every Indian Soldier? Those are the two largest standing armies in the world isn't it?

That does make you wonder as it can be for one of two things. Defense or Offense

Yes I know Naam you hate you tube but the numbers are verified on the Fed ATF sites

2. As for what the economics article said & what type of internet site it came from I know what your saying but I dont see the problem.

Just because someone has a reason why they are losing faith in Fiat & has invested in PM's does not make what they are saying about that situation irrelevant or not interesting. I found some of his analogies pretty interesting.

1. i have no reason to doubt any published number of weapons and/or ammunition procured Flying. what i belittle are any naive insinuations that the owners these weapons bought them with the intention to overthrow the federal government or shoot the "bad Jews" who own the FED which cheats tthe living shit not only out of american citizens but out of citizens globally. the same applies to the wet dreams that states which are contemplating to secede have a better chance than a snowball in héll. some of them tried that in the 1860s and we all know the result.

2. information -whether true or false- has always some relevance and it's up to the receiver to evaluate that information and draw own conclusions. but nobody in his/her right mind would take any information of the government in Beijing at face value if it concerns for example human rights.

[Abrak]

Personally I am not the least surprised by the lack of interest in this topic in general.

Most people here seem addicted to 'E' Channel and think I am totally ignorant in not knowing who Jennifer Aniston's latest love interest is (please advise here if possible).

I always find it slightly surreal when two Thai girls both earning less than Bt50k a month can have a detailed discussion about the merits of buying a Prada phone despite the fact it is a fashionware company and not a telecoms handset maker. (When I say detailed I mean that they admire the cute leather holder and admire the touch screen.)

Still I have never really understood the concept of spending 2 months salary on a handbag that obviously cost no more than US$5 to make. It amazes me that they dont find the whole concept foolish and instead appear smug about the whole thing. (I wished it worked the other way round, then I could pay US$5 for the thing and they would be equally impressed.)

Personally I blame Ryan Seacrest who clearly has a plan for world domination.

[Naam]

Most people here seem addicted to 'E' Channel and think I am totally ignorant in not knowing who Jennifer Aniston's latest love interest is (please advise here if possible).

i can't wait to find that out! who is Jennifer Aniston?

[flying]

1. i have no reason to doubt any published number of weapons and/or ammunition procured Flying. what i belittle are any naive insinuations that the owners these weapons bought them with the intention to overthrow the federal government or shoot the "bad Jews" who own the FED which cheats tthe living shit not only out of american citizens but out of citizens globally. the same applies to the wet dreams that states which are contemplating to secede have a better chance than a snowball in héll. some of them tried that in the 1860s and we all know the result.

Well personally I have no concrete ideas of the usage of those procured weapons so have no related dreams I have always had a good amount myself & know why I have them.

I do know though that many claim to be stock piling for self defense. Whether that be for self defense against perceived threats from the street due to economic downturns or whether it be threats from the government remains to be seen.

I do feel many are in a position now to say this is the line ...cross it if you like & see what the results are. I do not think many would tolerate any govt inflicted removal of any rights they have as stated in their constitution.

There seems to be many racial remarks that come from outside the US as to what is going on here. The truth as far as I can see from this side is not racial nor is it a over throw of anything or anyone. It is in fact a simple defense of what is already ours. You will not see masses of folks marching anywhere or over throwing anything. What you will see IMHO is a simple defense of what is ours.

It is the governments move on that front not ours.

Same goes for seceding from the union.... Why would we? For the most part I tend to agree with States like New Hampshire. They need not secede from what they built & created. They only need remind what is the law. Again it is not their move it is the governments move. If that is threatened then you will see defense I'm sure.

Also worth noting that there are now 20 States that have signed a resolution based on Jefferson & Madison principles that is in legislation now. You think that is not saying something?

One last thing.......There is no need to secede from something that does not exist. If the rights are trampled then there is not the original to secede from. In fact it may just turn the other way & a new union willing to observe & uphold what everyone thought was our constitution in the first place......hmmm

As for the 1860's you mention........Perhaps but name any other nation on this earth that has the history the US does or the ability for the people to stand for what they believed in. Or just the simple reason this place came to be in the first place.

Yes this country is just a baby globally at less than 250 years old but what they have done in such a short time eh?

Edited April 30, 2009 by flying

[flying]

i can't wait to find that out! who is Jennifer Aniston?

Google images

But if you watch any news at all in the past few years you must have seen

Brad Pitts original squeeze/wife? The one he tossed for Angelina hahahah

Edited April 30, 2009 by flying

[Naam]

I do feel many are in a position now to say this is the line ...cross it if you like & see what the results are. I do not think many would tolerate any govt inflicted removal of any rights they have as stated in their constitution.

big words Flying. what you forget is that the bottom line of the Patriot Act means nothing but "fàck the constitution and any rights a U.S. citizen or a foreigner anywhere on this planet has". add the (same old, same old) "national security involved!" and get real.

having said so, i believe that my redneck friends in Florida, Alabama and Georgia share your opinion but when faced with the worst case scenario common sense that they can't succeed will also prevail in their brains.

[flying]

i believe that my redneck friends in Florida, Alabama and Georgia share your opinion but when faced with the worst case scenario common sense that they can't succeed will also prevail in their brains.

We will see what we will see eh?

Everyone has their own tolerance/belief levels.

[samuibeachcomber]

Its a scam,and they want nobody to understand,just like wall st.anyone asks them to explain their products and how they operate they say its too hard to explain,you wont understand.Doctors used to be the same,treating their patients as neanderthals with a pat on the back "doctor knows best".Well its all over (thanks to the internet)no one is ignorant anymore.That article was very good.............now the question is is "what are the people going to do about it"Who's going to get mad enough to start a revolt.

Samui - maybe its a just a matter of time until the anger builds up...................

End The Fed Rally NYC 1/2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC7el3azq7Y

is the federal reserve too big to bring down? the guy in the youtube pic mentioned presidents who have tried and been killed for their trouble.

[12DrinkMore]

More Great News!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/ap...bankers-bonuses

City bankers are to reap nearly £7bn in bonuses this spring even though the government has been forced to pump tens of billions into the banks to prevent them collapsing.

Obviously no shortage of cash in the banks. I wonder where it all came from?

OH! Wasn't that OUR cash.

:D

And where are all the shareholders, who have taken massive hits in share prices? Why are they all so silent? Why are there no demonstrations outside the head offices?

[Naam]

i believe that my redneck friends in Florida, Alabama and Georgia share your opinion but when faced with the worst case scenario common sense that they can't succeed will also prevail in their brains.

We will see what we will see eh? Everyone has their own tolerance/belief levels.

like the weirdos in Waco, Texas

[flying]

like the weirdos in Waco, Texas

Ouch....

Funny you should mention that one.

[midas]

We will see what we will see eh?

Everyone has their own tolerance/belief levels.

Flying this from Reuters seems to support your view :-

In American crisis, anger and guns

After the November spike, gun dealers say, a second motive has helped drive sales: fear of social unrest as the ailing economy pushes the newly destitute deeper into misery.

Tent cities for the homeless have expanded outside a string of American cities, from Sacramento and Phoenix to Atlanta and Seattle, for people who are living the American dream in reverse. First they lose their jobs, then their health insurance, then their homes, then their hopes. The encampments are reminiscent of Third World refugee camps.

But, as columnist David Ignatius put it in the Washington Post, "there's an ugly mood developing as people start looking for villains to blame for the economic mess."

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2009...anger-and-guns/

And when they inevitably hear this news in weeks and months to come- may be their threshold for tolerance will be getting increasingly closer?

Why do I think this ? Well this for a start probably wont help……?

Geithner: Banks still broken

Unease growing over effectiveness of bailout billions

Confidence in the program is wearing thin on Capitol Hill. With lawmakers back from their spring break, even bailout supporters are skeptical that Congress — weary of bankers' bonuses and still-scarce credit — would approve additional bank rescue money if requested.

"The sense of fear and uncertainty has not gone away, but it's been joined by a new sense of anger and frustration," said Elizabeth Warren, who is also a Harvard University law professor. "

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/biz-economy/289778

Flying, you are on the ground there in the USA. I am interested in the mood and feedback from your friends, relatives and neighbours.

What are they saying to you about all this?

Edited April 30, 2009 by midas

[flying]

Flying, you are on the ground there in the USA. I am interested in the mood and feedback from your friends, relatives and neighbors.

What are they saying to you about all this?

Well I am not in mainstream USA per se' but even here you have two camps.....

First I will say both camps are angry .....pissed.... unhappy

The one camp is unhappy & mad that they have worked & worked only to have it all cave in. Yet they are so busy trying to save the sinking ship that in reality a lot of them are not really up to date on a lot of the news.

They literally still have their nose so firmly fixed to the grindstone that is all they can see. Yet they know each month they are falling further behind.

Before anyone starts with the ...They over bought etc.... Let me say yes some did but you also have folks who did not but due to the collapse of many forms of income they are being swept into the mess. Yes they had mortgages & no they were not the thrifty types & perhaps they can learn from the Chinese as to the benefits of saving.....But for now they are in a mess & sinking fast.

This group number one is still for the most part unarmed & hoping that the new president can perform a miracle. When of course it does not happen I am not sure which way they will fall. Sadly they seem to be more on the sheepish side & may just take what is given or left

The second camp is albeit better informed & for better or worse they may even be considered... Conspiracy theorist types...along with a host of other names both flattering & not.

These folks saw it coming & prepared a bit better. A lot of them owe nothing but many are just as bad debt wise. These folks are angry....They are in many ways getting fidgety & from my view almost seem to want the SHTF.

They are disgusted with the whole shot & this is why I used the line analogy when speaking with Naam.

I know he feels his buddies will let cooler heads prevail & like I said ....I do not know & we will see what we see when the time comes.

It is easy to label folks hot heads or hot air types but the folks I know in many parts of the US do not in any way fit this description. They are highly intelligent & capable. I do not see this type of folks backing away from something they know is their collective rights.

These are interesting times & we are witnessing something that has potential to go very far & fast into unknown directions.

I think the present administration is playing it pretty cool in regards to what has to be a bit threatening. I mean the people are voting in great numbers with these purchases & the FFL (federal firearms license)reporting shows the admin the exact numbers.

They know these are horrendous numbers & they know that in fact the numbers are probably greater than what is reported. So I think they are being very smart in not moving to stop it. That would in fact be bad timing/ line crossing at this junction.

Bottom line is none know midas....None!

We all speculate & we watch. The rage & arm build up we see is real we know that. What will become of it is anyones guess.

[midas]

Bottom line is none know midas....None!

We all speculate & we watch. The rage & arm build up we see is real we know that. What will become of it is anyones guess.

Your analogy to two camps is interesting. But isnt it likely that people who are in

the first camp are going to have friends and relatives in the second camp to feed them with

their ideas and perspective ?

And your comment " Yet they know each month they are falling further behind " says it all !

If anyone is working their but off and suffering in silence -arguably when these people reach boiling point

they could be even more explosive than those in camp 2 ?

" This group number one is still for the most part unarmed & hoping that the new president can perform a miracle "

But surely the day will come when they realise the Emperor is not wearing any clothes and what happens then?

To say everyone is going to vent their anger with a gun is naive but I think it's equally naive to say the majority of Americans

will willingly allow themselves to get pushed around like this without biting back in some way shape or form ?

Edited April 30, 2009 by midas

[flying]

Your analogy to two camps is interesting. But isnt it likely that people who are in

the first camp are going to have friends and relatives in the second camp to feed them with

their ideas and perspective ?

And your comment " Yet they know each month they are falling further behind " says it all !

If anyone is working their but off and suffering in silence -arguably when these people reach boiling point

they could be even more explosive than those in camp 2 ?

" This group number one is still for the most part unarmed & hoping that the new president can perform a miracle "

But surely the day will come when they realize the Emperor is not wearing any clothes and what happens then?

To say everyone is going to vent their anger with a gun is naive but I think it's equally naive to say the majority of Americans

will willingly allow themselves to get pushed around like this without biting back in some way shape or form ?

What you say is very true actually. The information is spreading & folks do tell others.

Also I forgot to mention something that you reminded me of when you said

If anyone is working their but off and suffering in silence -arguably when these people reach boiling point

they could be even more explosive than those in camp 2 ?

You know this is very true & let me give you a 1st hand accounting.....

I have been telling this one couple I know & like (great folks with good hearts )

They are in over their head the husband has been laid off for 3-5 months now. They are behind & will lose their home I am 100% sure of it. But they are throwing everything they have at it. All their savings...All his unemployment....all the tax returns they had & all of this just to hang on a few more months....Why?

I have been telling them in their case I am sorry but that game is over stop paying & save that 4k a month ( their mortgage ) Then in a year or so when they are booted at least they have a small start up fund.

But they are very honest & feel they must continue. A big reason they feel this way??? The supposed mortgage relief folks they are working with are stringing them along. Telling them hang on we are working on a reduced plan & you must just be sure to make your payments because if you dont well you will be disqualified.

These folks who are supposed saviors are talking about a new mortgage at the giant reduced price of 3500- 3800 per month !!!

In the mean time these nice folks pay the 4k every month leaving almost zero for food etc. I know where it will go but they are trying. Guess what the end result will be?? You know & I know..he is not going to get employed right now & they will not get that reduced by a whopping 500 note that they cannot afford anyway.

But these companies will try to bleed them for a few more months anyway.

So your comment fits this scenario to a T

If it were me???? Hmmm I hate to think

Lastly when you said....

To say everyone is going to vent their anger with a gun is naive but I think it's equally naive to say the majority of Americans

will willingly allow themselves to get pushed around like this without biting back in some way shape or form ?

I think like one of the comments on that article you posted said...

Most folks in America dont like aimless riots.

But once a point is reached I do not think it will be aimless.

Lets hope for the best

Edited April 30, 2009 by flying

[12DrinkMore]

I was a little confused today.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home

April 30 (Bloomberg) -- Corporate earnings worldwide haven’t been the disaster analysts predicted as companies from Ford Motor Co. to Siemens AG beat earnings estimates through job cuts, factory consolidations and a dose of lowered expectations.

But then I understood. Corporate earnings haven't been a disaster because they have been firing peeps left, right and centre. So a social disaster, but at least Wall St. is happy, GREAT NEWS, more BONUSES on the the way then.

But this I don't understand

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home

Another government report showed fewer Americans filed first-time applications for unemployment insurance last week. Initial jobless claims decreased by 14,000 to a less-than- forecast 631,000 in the week that ended April 25, Labor Department figures showed today in Washington. The number of people staying on jobless benefit rolls rose 133,000 to 6.27 million, the 13th straight week the figure has set a record.

Does that mean that last week a massive 631,000 newly unemployables arrived to claim benefits. And WOW, it was 14,000 less than somebody expected, obviously VERY GOOD NEWS then????

And what was the next figure? The permanent unemployables have risen by 133,000 poor peeps?

Well, this sounds appalling. Maybe I have misunderstood.

The elusive "green shoots" that the politicians keep seeing, seem to be more like specks of decay on the wrecked economies.

If anybody is interested in economic analysis, I found the following two series of articles very interesting.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/others/banking-bunkum.html

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/others/olec.html

In the end I get depressed about it all, because although the ideas and solutions seem very reasonable, I doubt whether "Our Leaders" will be at all interested in any policies which "even things up" and spread around the consumer purchasing power, even if it would be for the long term good of the world's economy. Short term goals are the order of the era. I despair.

But now we may have a bit of respite as the pig flu pandemic strikes us all down. At least Thailand is making a major contribution by sending 5,000 face masks and some soap to Mexico. WOW, a whole FIVE THOUSAND??? they'll certainly go a long way. I guess the total cost must have been about 30,000 Baht.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/04/30...al_30101728.php

Edited April 30, 2009 by 12DrinkMore

[flying]

Does that mean that last week a massive 631,000 newly unemployables arrived to claim benefits. And WOW, it was 14,000 less than somebody expected, obviously VERY GOOD NEWS then????

And what was the next figure? The permanent unemployables have risen by 133,000 poor peeps?

But now we may have a bit of respite as the pig flu pandemic strikes us all down. At least Thailand is making a major contribution by sending 5,000 face masks and some soap to Mexico. WOW, a whole FIVE THOUSAND??? they'll certainly go a long way. I guess the total cost must have been about 30,000 Baht.

Yes very good news on those UE numbers isn't it?

14k less....did the govt have a holiday last week?

I am starting to feel uneasy about the timing of the swine flu.

Yeah I know paranoid ....conspiracy theory etc etc etc

I was waiting for the usual TERRORISM diversion that we have grown accustomed to in financial crisis & fully expected the powers that be to use Pakistan as the scape goat this time. Now I am starting to wonder.

[teatree]

now the question is is "what are the people going to do about it Who's going to get mad enough to start a revolt."

let's face reality. nobody will do anything except complaining or bitching in a forum or blogspot. by the way, "Economics 101 without the BS" has a lot of flaws and incorrect statements of facts. but it's wasted time to go through the hassle and point them out using collected underlying facts as people only believe what they want to believe.

p.s. nobody seems to realise or care that the majority of statements such as "w/o BS" originate from websites which deal in or promote precious metals and condemn "fiat money"

So you are saying, "Economics 101 without the BS has a lot of flaws and incorrect statements of facts....because I say so". No facts or supporting evidence necessary.

[Abrak]

i can't wait to find that out! who is Jennifer Aniston?

Google images

But if you watch any news at all in the past few years you must have seen

Brad Pitts original squeeze/wife? The one he tossed for Angelina hahahah

Unfortunately this sort of data is assumed to be programmed into most people at birth.

What is expected is you should know of her dating since her 'unfortunate' break up with Brad. The most public of which was with Vince Vaughn looking peculiarly fat at the time but others have included John Mayer (a wannabe pop star who always claims to have no GF but has dated Jeniifer Love Hewitt, Heidi Klum and a bunch of other celebs), Doug Reinhardt whose major call to fame is working as a Brad Pitt look alike (how weird is that?), Paul Sculfor, a male model who dumped her to shag Cameron Diaz and Jason Lewis (part time actor in sex in the city.)

No idea who her current squeeze is but I can tell you it ranks far more important in the eyes of both my daughter and my girlfriend than any apparent economic collapse that they seem blissfully unaware of.

[flying]

No idea who her current squeeze is but I can tell you it ranks far more important in the eyes of both my daughter and my girlfriend than any apparent economic collapse that they seem blissfully unaware of.

You know in some ways I wish I were them.....I mean you know then I would be ........blissful

We really make ourselves ill with all this collapse for the most part.

In that respect I also see why some would like the SHTF already

At least then they could get on with rebuilding it.

[Naam]

now the question is is "what are the people going to do about it Who's going to get mad enough to start a revolt."

let's face reality. nobody will do anything except complaining or bitching in a forum or blogspot. by the way, "Economics 101 without the BS" has a lot of flaws and incorrect statements of facts. but it's wasted time to go through the hassle and point them out using collected underlying facts as people only believe what they want to believe.

p.s. nobody seems to realise or care that the majority of statements such as "w/o BS" originate from websites which deal in or promote precious metals and condemn "fiat money"

So you are saying, "Economics 101 without the BS has a lot of flaws and incorrect statements of facts....because I say so". No facts or supporting evidence necessary.

it seems you need reading glasses my friend

[midas]

now the question is is "what are the people going to do about it Who's going to get mad enough to start a revolt."

let's face reality. nobody will do anything except complaining or bitching in a forum or blogspot. by the way, "Economics 101 without the BS" has a lot of flaws and incorrect statements of facts. but it's wasted time to go through the hassle and point them out using collected underlying facts as people only believe what they want to believe.

p.s. nobody seems to realise or care that the majority of statements such as "w/o BS" originate from websites which deal in or promote precious metals and condemn "fiat money"

So you are saying, "Economics 101 without the BS has a lot of flaws and incorrect statements of facts....because I say so". No facts or supporting evidence necessary.

teatree you will learn in time that Naam is quite content to be in his own world - he doesnt believe in providing supporting evidence

Edited May 1, 2009 by midas

[Naam]

teatree you will learn in time that Naam is quite content to be in his own world - he doesnt believe in providing supporting evidence

i made it very clear that i'm not doing the homework for biased people who can't comprehend even simple sentences but prefer to go on with irrelevant raving and ranting about things they have no freaking idea about (and will never have).

this is what i said:

it's wasted time to go through the hassle and point them [the flaws and incorrect statements of facts] out using collected underlying facts as people only believe what they want to believe.

[midas]

teatree you will learn in time that Naam is quite content to be in his own world - he doesnt believe in providing supporting evidence

i made it very clear that i'm not doing the homework for biased people who can't comprehend even simple sentences but prefer to go on with irrelevant raving and ranting about things they have no freaking idea about (and will never have).

this is what i said:

it's wasted time to go through the hassle and point them [the flaws and incorrect statements of facts] out using collected underlying facts as Naam only believes what he wants to believe.

You mean the way you only believe your own words and on one else's

[flying]

Pretty interesting note on Silver

I also like this blog site a lot....

http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2...notice-day.html

Edited May 1, 2009 by flying

[flying]

This was done in 1934

We have come a long way eh?

[badge]

This was done in 1934

We have come a long way eh?

haha thats great. After reading Charles Mackeys' brilliant little book 'Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds' its clear that we(humans) never change