Foreigners Doing Business With Foreigners

[maccaroni man]

Over the years I have had a few situations where in the course of business I offered credit terms and I must say that 98% of my Foreign customers paid as agreed but it is the 2% that did not that I remember most and not so much because of the amount they owed but more so because of the many fairy tales they told to avoid paying i.e. “I want to ask my girl friend to merry me and I need the money for a ring.” or “It is our anniversary and I want to take my girlfriend out to a nice dinner.” or worst are the excuses that require them spending money on other things like travel, businesses and new vehicles. “I need to take a vacation", “I can’t pay you as I just bought a new truck” “I’m a little short because we just opened a new business for my girlfriend” When ever this happens to me I always shake my head and wonder; who taught these people the meaning of personal integrity, responsibility and accountability? What sort of value system do these people have? Is it the ease in which boarder runs can be made that attracts these types of people to Thailand? This thread is not about loosing money while doing business, as that is part of business and I am always prepared to take my losses but it is about how I have given Foreigners the benefit of the doubt that I probably would not offer a Thai and have been burned for it.

[koheesti]

I think we tend to "trust" our own more than the locals maybe because we expect that our ethics and ideas of standard business practices are more or less the same. Unfortuunately, sometimes it's the "less" part. I tell visitors that they will be happy here if they don't fall in love with a Thai or go into business with a farang. At least it works for me.

[JONTY]

theres one rule out here dont lend money to any one, to my cost I have learned the hard way,farangs and thai the same full of promises when you lend the money, but when it comes to paying back same old excuses,so the moral is DO NOT LEND TO ANYONE

[Beachedwhale]

theres one rule out here dont lend money to any one, to my cost I have learned the hard way,farangs and thai the same full of promises when you lend the money, but when it comes to paying back same old excuses,so the moral is DO NOT LEND TO ANYONE

I tend to agree with the general rule of thumb - Don’t lend to anyone.

But I have been on both sides of the fence on this one, and have borrowed from some farang mates to get through a certain blip, and then found that the blip took longer to work through and things did not fall into place as expected. Eventually the money was repaid but it took much longer than expected, and some of the reasons for the delays were bad luck, others were probably bad decisions on my part but many were also due to the unusual business environment in Thailand / Koh Samui. Luckily the mates were very patient and because they were living in Samui understood the reasons whereas if I was living back home and got some of my excuses, I would think I was a crooked liar.

So I would say, please consider helping a friend in need as business in Thailand is difficult at times, but obviously make sure you are not desperate for the money to be returned and if possible get a written agreement to repay or some other form of security. Even an English language loan agreement can be enforced in Thailand as long as it is structured properly and is witnessed (and is not at exorbitant rates of interest).

I am reluctant to lend but because of the graciousness of the person who lent to me once, feel it appropriate to consider doing it for others.

[koheesti]

Do the Thai authorities even really care much about business disputes between farang if i doesn't involve a Thai? Is there even court on this island to take someone to or are people just advised to take matters into their own hands?

[Birdman]

Do the Thai authorities even really care much about business disputes between farang if i doesn't involve a Thai? Is there even court on this island to take someone to or are people just advised to take matters into their own hands?

Reminds me of Bangkok Post today:

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Sunday said all Thais would get justice from his government, including Thaksin as he is a Thai.

"The government provides justice for all Thais. As he is a Thai, we will give him justice in line with the law," he said.

[mac.wheeler]

I do business with people all over the world.

The people I have had the most problems working with are Farangs living in Thailand, so much so I won't work with them anymore. I've had every excuse under the sun for late/non payment, I've had several disappear without a word after taking delivery of a completed project. I've had others who add to the project scope towards the end of the project and refuse to make any payment until the additional work is completed, basically extortion, do this extra work for free or you don't get a penny.

So now I just won't do business with them, I have one Farang client left who is an OK guy, once he decides he doesn't need my services anymore I'll not be taking on any more.

[fullwhenempty]

You do get a bit cynical after too many rip-offs abroad. General observation?

20% of foreigners are preying on the other 80%.

I've lent money too often. 9 times out of 10, never been paid back. The trick is to have some kind of security... motorbike or car papers. Thais do this all the time. They also charge 10% interest on loans.

[maccaroni man]

interesting replies nice to know I am not alone and like others posted I do not think I will do business with farang again.

[koheesti]

After reading all this I think it's safe to say, DO NOT lend money but especially not to anyone for the purpose of entering into a business deal with another farang.

[angiud]

Yeah, a golden rule: never lend money to fellows falang.

I can say in the last weeks some thai (also with business bigger than mine) come to me or my wife to borrow small, or sometimes not so small, money.

Our most important rule is: never lend money to Thai. You'll never get back.

One more symptom about the economical crisis: Last days a company come in KPG to take back several cars from people buy with financing. Some from well established resorts...

[mattias33]

Maccaroniman, your op says you been way to nice. "i want to ask my gf to marry me", "its our anniversery" or even the worse one "i cant pay you because i had to buy i brand new truck", none of these really lame "excuses" qualify for being late on payment. The answer to all of them is "that is simply not my problem, you pay me and keep saving and im sure your gf or your car can be the next in line".

This whole thing reminds me of a very rescent story in a chaweng resort, that got closed down for these reasons, a leasor filled with these kind of "explanations" why he could never pay his depts. "I can´t pay my dept to you because i just bought a brand new truck"! Unbeleiveble how crazy some people are. And manage to get away with it. "I´m in dept far over my ears, but i had to go and buy a new truck so therefore i cant pay of my depts".

In Sweden a few years ago i bumped in to the most extreme of the extremes. He was so in dept that there was really no way out of it. Except he had very rich parents. So, his mom felt compassion for him and opened up the wallet, for him to go and pay off everybody he owned money. Did he paid them? Nope. He bought a new car and all his problems remained! Why is it always like this? Goes beyond my understanding for sure. And btw, when i asked my gf to marry me, it didnt cost anything. That was a question that was for free. Why do the people with big depts think they need to spend more money on those things than the people that infact lend them the money? Or do they even spend money on those things or is it all just lame excuses to not pay the depts? Anyway i recognise all the things you say maccaroniman, seems to be standard phraseology from these loosers. Ive heard all of them before.

[Pilchard]

"Never lend people money, it gives them amnesia." ~ Groucho Marx

[ClaudeFeller]

Yes, never-ever lend money!

For business I learnt to make terms of payment 50%/30%/20% on PO/delivered/job done. If customer not agrees he is not reliable. But I learnt this lesson the hard way.

[ClaudeFeller]

Our most important rule is: never lend money to Thai. You'll never get back.

One more symptom about the economical crisis: Last days a company come in KPG to take back several cars from people buy with financing. Some from well established resorts...

Most important reason is gambling. The crisis is just worsening these symptoms.

[pothai]

If you lend someone money make sure a date is set to pay it back and demand it then...if you havnt the personality to be affirmative then dont lend money

[stiggy]

world is full of wa**ers so as far as credit is concerned with business.

90 days trading on COD then 30 days given that is strictly adhered to.

The Thais have been good at paying sometimes a little late one month at most and informed us that there was a problem, the biggest hits we have taken has been foreigners trading here some go back over a year of non payment .

We do business in other asian country's to and again it seems to be the expats or foreign residents that are tricky to deal with and don't pay on time etc.

However it pains me to say this but the French customers we have across the region are excellent with their accounts.

Worst payers English and American nationals in my experience.

[Metalgear]

People have to always becareful when it is about money, anywhere but especially in Thailand. This land is all about Thais ripping of foreigners' and tourists' money and obviously some foreigners ripping other foriegners' money too. Even the Thais are being ripped off by their own kind everyday. I had this Thai friend who put his money into a get rich quick scheme. He alsmost got killed by a hired gun man. And you know who hired the gun man ? His other Thai friends and the people that he managed to convince to put money in that scheme.

Thailand is a very very very dangerous country. Not only a person can loose his money here, but his life too. This is a country where it is advisable not to piss people off, you'll never know what danger lies within. Thais are also not that forgiving. Thai people can smile at you even when they are pissed with you and then when you turn the corner and look away, there will be a bullet or a knife on its way.

The fun part about Thailand is just a cover to lure in the "Foreign Fishes" so that they can be slaughtered here later.

[BusyBee123]

nothing dangerous about losing money in thailand, sheer stupidity usually takes care of that side of things

[Boputed]

world is full of wa**ers so as far as credit is concerned with business.

90 days trading on COD then 30 days given that is strictly adhered to.

The Thais have been good at paying sometimes a little late one month at most and informed us that there was a problem, the biggest hits we have taken has been foreigners trading here some go back over a year of non payment .

We do business in other asian country's to and again it seems to be the expats or foreign residents that are tricky to deal with and don't pay on time etc.

However it pains me to say this but the French customers we have across the region are excellent with their accounts.

Worst payers English and American nationals in my experience.

the French are particularly good payers ...AGAIN, the rest of you do NOT lend money to other "FARANG" here! ....unless of course you do so with no expectation of being repaid....then you don't have to spend all that life energy and time upset about something you cannot fix...without causing you more upsetness.

[hnka]

interesting replies nice to know I am not alone and like others posted I do not think I will do business with farang again.

Just a word of advise, if and when you do decide you wanna venture into a business with a farang here, exercise extreme caution and be sure you have a good lawyer. Speaking through true experience of course...

[FlatOut]

I do business with people all over the world.

The people I have had the most problems working with are Farangs living in Thailand, so much so I won't work with them anymore. I've had every excuse under the sun for late/non payment, I've had several disappear without a word after taking delivery of a completed project. I've had others who add to the project scope towards the end of the project and refuse to make any payment until the additional work is completed, basically extortion, do this extra work for free or you don't get a penny.

So now I just won't do business with them, I have one Farang client left who is an OK guy, once he decides he doesn't need my services anymore I'll not be taking on any more.

Just bumping this to the top. We'll see what tomorrow brings and then I'll explain why this post is here.

Edited April 8, 2010 by FlatOut

[carmine]

I think we tend to "trust" our own more than the locals maybe because we expect that our ethics and ideas of standard business practices are more or less the same. Unfortuunately, sometimes it's the "less" part. I tell visitors that they will be happy here if they don't fall in love with a Thai or go into business with a farang. At least it works for me.

I like that,,,,very sound advice

[neverdie]

I do business with people all over the world.

The people I have had the most problems working with are Farangs living in Thailand, so much so I won't work with them anymore. I've had every excuse under the sun for late/non payment, I've had several disappear without a word after taking delivery of a completed project. I've had others who add to the project scope towards the end of the project and refuse to make any payment until the additional work is completed, basically extortion, do this extra work for free or you don't get a penny.

So now I just won't do business with them, I have one Farang client left who is an OK guy, once he decides he doesn't need my services anymore I'll not be taking on any more.

Just bumping this to the top. We'll see what tomorrow brings and then I'll explain why this post is here.

Ohh so theres a motive for bringing this old thread to the surface.

[bridge]

If you ever want someone out of your life, lend them money.

[BigC]

all i can say is call the shadey debt collectors i can PM u some if u want.

Edited April 8, 2010 by BigC

[Evergreen]

Well, i just had a quick read through this thread and had a wry smile on my face as i agree with mosty posts on this subject.

I myself was recently the "victim" along with another guy who simply got conned out of quite a few thousand baht. I'll put it down to experience that's for sure and i'll NEVER fully trust someone again here...no matter how convincing they sound. It's amazing how some guys can talk so well and manage to convince people to part with money.....then you never see a single penny of it whatsoever. Then the conman comes out with all the excuses of the year and even trips himself up as to what stories he's told as i had 3 different versions he's told me personally! I just laugh as the guy is desperately trying to tell others that he's done nothing wrong and it was me and the other guys fault, it's quite sad really how desperate some people are just to stay here, they'd rip off their own grandmothers if need be.

I do wonder how many others the guy we dealt with have been conned as it sure seems like the guy lives his life ok whilst doing no work whatsoever so there must be more than just the 2 of us i'm sure.

Anyway, such is life, it's a harsh lesson but what's done is done and hop this thread acts as good advice to any "newbies" back home thinking off any great job/work "offers" to come over here and stay...as all is not what it may seem!!

Right, it's beer o clock.....again!!

[koheesti]

..., it's quite sad really how desperate some people are just to stay here, they'd rip off their own grandmothers if need be.

Yeah, it is amazing. I think it's the lack of law or payback that brings out the worst. I've lived in other nice places that were small and if you cheated another expat word would get out and you'd have to get out of town. On Samui - which is even smaller - expats cheat each other and while I can think of three who have done Sloaney-style runners (borrow a lot of money then skip the island with apparently no fear of retribution) there are plenty more who stay. I've never heard of anyone being sued for ripping someone off and I've never heard of anyone "getting a leg broken" either. Has anyone here heard otherwise?

[Boltd]

..., it's quite sad really how desperate some people are just to stay here, they'd rip off their own grandmothers if need be.

Yeah, it is amazing. I think it's the lack of law or payback that brings out the worst. I've lived in other nice places that were small and if you cheated another expat word would get out and you'd have to get out of town. On Samui - which is even smaller - expats cheat each other and while I can think of three who have done Sloaney-style runners (borrow a lot of money then skip the island with apparently no fear of retribution) there are plenty more who stay. I've never heard of anyone being sued for ripping someone off and I've never heard of anyone "getting a leg broken" either. Has anyone here heard otherwise?

What ever happened to the Sloaney Saga? was he ever picked up.

I like many others have HELPED friends out in the passed on KS but once that phrase ( Can I borrow ) is mentioned it seems to change your relationship instantly - You may have known the person for years and years but the second the money changes hands, 90% of the time you'll never see it again.

That once good friend will do whatever he/she can to avoid you until another crises comes up and your the only person they can turn to.

Then you have the very awkward situation of having to listen to all the excuses and the promises and how its everyone else's fault except theirs.

I know, I for one have had enough of the poor mouth Bull and will never entertain these people again Period!

[Obiwan]

Well, i just had a quick read through this thread and had a wry smile on my face as i agree with mosty posts on this subject.

I myself was recently the "victim" along with another guy who simply got conned out of quite a few thousand baht. I'll put it down to experience that's for sure and i'll NEVER fully trust someone again here...no matter how convincing they sound. It's amazing how some guys can talk so well and manage to convince people to part with money.....then you never see a single penny of it whatsoever. Then the conman comes out with all the excuses of the year and even trips himself up as to what stories he's told as i had 3 different versions he's told me personally! I just laugh as the guy is desperately trying to tell others that he's done nothing wrong and it was me and the other guys fault, it's quite sad really how desperate some people are just to stay here, they'd rip off their own grandmothers if need be.

I do wonder how many others the guy we dealt with have been conned as it sure seems like the guy lives his life ok whilst doing no work whatsoever so there must be more than just the 2 of us i'm sure.

Anyway, such is life, it's a harsh lesson but what's done is done and hop this thread acts as good advice to any "newbies" back home thinking off any great job/work "offers" to come over here and stay...as all is not what it may seem!!

Right, it's beer o clock.....again!!

So, what was the story?