Soil Testing

[IraqRon]

Hi guys, I want to get some soil tested for the following: clay, silt, organic content, soluble sulfites, etc and don't know the Thai name of such a test(s). Also, would the universities around Chiang Rai be the place to go or to a government agency. I have the ASTM standard references, but to explain in Thai I am lost. Any help??

[drtreelove]

Hi guys, I want to get some soil tested for the following: clay, silt, organic content, soluble sulfites, etc and don't know the Thai name of such a test(s). Also, would the universities around Chiang Rai be the place to go or to a government agency. I have the ASTM standard references, but to explain in Thai I am lost. Any help??

Mae La Luang University in Chiang Rai may have a soil science department that will do the testing for a fee. I know for a fact that Mae Jo University in Chiang Mai does it. They do a complete soil analysis with the components that you mention plus more. I haven't done any for a couple of years, but when I did they charged 500 baht and it takes 2 weeks. Mae Jo U, soil science building, 4th floor. You don't need Thai names, they will give you a report in English with the values of each category. But they don't give interpretation or recommendations unless you look up a soils professor on the 2nd floor and get his/her input.

I have a contact at Mae La Luang U, I will ask him about soils dept there.

The Thai govenrment Land Development Department does free soil testing, but it is minimal in components analysed and it takes 45 days; all in Thai with no interpretation or recommendations. See other threads/posts for more information.

[drtreelove]

I just got a reply from my man at Mae Fah Luang U in Chiang Rai. They do not have soil testing available to the public. Mae Jo U may be your best bet.

[IraqRon]

Hi guys, I want to get some soil tested for the following: clay, silt, organic content, soluble sulfites, etc and don't know the Thai name of such a test(s). Also, would the universities around Chiang Rai be the place to go or to a government agency. I have the ASTM standard references, but to explain in Thai I am lost. Any help??

Thanks, I have two reasons for the soil tests. One is to assess the Ph level and adjust it as necessary so the rubber trees can get the maximum nutrient uptake from the soil. I understand that Ph level has a lot to do with this, am still researching to find the optimum Ph level for my soil as regards rubber trees nutrition.

[rice555]

Hello IraqRon, if you just want pH, do it your self. You can get the small N-P-K+pH home test kits from 02-938-0064/02-933-7841-2 in BKK. I've seen the picture's in the same 2 Thai ag magazines for 7 years.

You can use "Tetra Test" pH-kit from aquarium stores, under B.100 that you can use to get a rough idea, I've used them for testing coir pH, the same thing for soil but you need to take samples from different areas, mix together to get an average, same as doing a 'real soil test'.

Test the water pH you are going to use, then the soil/water mix. I use 50/50 mix, shake up and let settle 30 min. Pour the liquid into a glass through a paper coffee filter to remove the solids, use the amount the test kit calls for. It should be close enough for government work.

Of coarse this should have been done before any crop has been planted.

Or if you got the bucks, the first place sells the stuff the ag schools use to do the tests.

rice555

[IraqRon]

Good tips and ideas there Rice 555, I was planning on getting my own soil tester, but for one purpose of mine I need one to goes up to ph of 14 and those kind get expensive. Of course for the soil test for farming the way you do it is the way to go. I will probably use the kind sold by aquarium shops for that. Now to find the optimum ph for my soil and rubber trees to maximize their utilization of nutrients/fertilizer.

The quest continues..

[drtreelove]

Thanks, I have two reasons for the soil tests. One is to assess the Ph level and adjust it as necessary so the rubber trees can get the maximum nutrient uptake from the soil. I understand that Ph level has a lot to do with this, am still researching to find the optimum Ph level for my soil as regards rubber trees nutrition.

http://forum.agriculture.ph/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=186

Consider this statement regarding “expensive soil tests”, from the excellent book Permaculture Home Garden by Linda Woodrow (Viking Penguin Books, Australia):

“Ironically, however, the question is mostly academic. The cure for heavy clay soil is to add organic matter to breakup the clay and improve drainage. The cure for sandy, dry soil is to add organic matter to retain water. The cure for acid soil is to add organic matter, particularly bird manure, to bring the pH up and make more nutrients available. The cure for alkaline soil is to add organic matter to buffer it. The cure for hardpan is to add organic matter to feed earthworms.”

“Compost, mulch, animal manure and worm castings are the great cure-alls. You can build a garden on a concrete car park if you add enough of them. It is usually easier and safer just to add enough of them to correct any deficiency you might have. Just as it is better to feed a person a good, balanced, varied diet than to eat junk food and then worry about which vitamin pills to take, it is better to feed plants plenty of humus than to grow them in skeletal soil and worry about which supplements they need.”

[rice555]

Hello drtreelove, so what would the cost of this happy horseshit spread over 1rai cost? Would it be cost effective now in a time of low rubber prices and would it be sub-stainable enough in the long turn?

Is man ready for 'organic rubber'?

rice555

[drtreelove]

Hello drtreelove, so what would the cost of this happy horseshit spread over 1rai cost? Would it be cost effective now in a time of low rubber prices and would it be sub-stainable enough in the long turn?

Is man ready for 'organic rubber'?

rice555

Rice You're right, maybe not practical. I just threw that out as general information and another perspective for this thread on soil testing.

But happy horseshit isn't the only way to go (I like that term though). I don't know much about rubber, but in other farming situations, green manuring is a relatively inexpensive way to get organic matter to the soil, especially since you can get free seeds from the land development department. In fruit orchards I mow and leave lay as mulch, so there is no tractor work needed. If I seed during rainy season so I don't have to irrigate, cut the cover crop myself and don't hire labor, there is almost zero cost except for a little gasoline to go get the seeds and for my 'krueng tat ya'. Now that's cheap organic matter don't you think? don

[rice555]

Hello drtreelove, "Consider this statement regarding “expensive soil tests”, from the excellent book Permaculture Home Garden by Linda Woodrow (Viking Penguin Books, Australia):"

I don't know about you, but I learned about soil testing and plants nutritional requirements reading OGF(Rodale Press) many moons ago. I bought my first soil test kit at the Ecology Action store in Palo Alto CA in the 70's, long before permaculture became buzz word or I bought the first paperbacks of Molsens books.

When I think of 'home garden', I normally don't think about rubber plantations, but again I've not read the book.

I don't know how much the test kit I gave the phone number costs(Baht price), but it is the same type I brought with me when I moved here, maybe, $20. and say now $25??(B.900), for 10 N-P-K + pH tests.

The thing the test kit does, which the book won't, is give the OP the answer to the question he asked for less.

I use pH in my hydroponics, it is part of the growing process, even if I used worm castings for nutrients( they do in Cuba), I still need to know the pH. Basics. Foundation.

rice555

http://www.commongroundinpaloalto.org/

[drtreelove]

http://www.commongroundinpaloalto.org/

I know that store; frequent shopper in the mid 70's. I worked at the biodynamic french intensive garden on the Syntex property with John Jeavons for awhile. But mostly I was climbing trees for a living. dc

[rice555]

O/T

Hello drtreelove, was that Dan Balies(sp) Tree Service? Accross the tracks from Wards/19th Ave freeway SM?

rice555

[Maizefarmer]

R u aware that you can conduct some very useful - if basic - soil testing with a microwave and a fishtank water test kit? Marine test kits do the job far better, but freshwater kits do the job as well.

Nitrates, Nitrites, Phosphates, Sodium, Calcium and whole bunch of other goodies & badies found in soil chemistry can be teased out of the soil in terms of percentages and/or net weights (as percentages of mositure) using a decent fish tank water testing kit, soil samples, sterile water - and an old microwave.

Okay you are not going to get the accuracy you will get from having sent your soil smaple to a pro lab, and there are things you cannot test for, but the above can give you a fairly broad overview of whats in your soil, and how much of it is present.

[jandtaa]

Did my A-Level Biology "dissertation" using the hypothesis of "worms increase the humus content of soil and therefore affect it's P.H"

It's nearly twenty years since but I remember continually harrassing lab techs for the use of the autoclave (substitute microwave) to dessicate my samples and using Lithmus paper to test the P.H (subsitute aquarium test kit). So yet again M.F. you're spot on with your advice !! I believe when you mention sterile water you are referring to distilled water (the same that is purchased to top up your vehicle battery or available for free when you empty your steam kettle i.e it's P.H. neutral.)

P.S I neither became a biologist nor a chemist ( also studied that at A-level ) but an humble chef !! but never forgot the lessons I learnt though , two totally facsinating subjects which I know help me in my day to day job as well as being a jumpstart for my current project in Thailand !!

cheers Jandtaa

[Maizefarmer]

Correct - distilled water will be fine.

When I first started farming in Thailand many many moons back, testing kits were not commonly avalible, so one had to substitute - for soil testing, water testing, clamp testing ect ect ............ any ag test - we were constantly looking for solutions to those sorts of problems: the really useful one was using the old microwave (which was rare its self in those days!) to moisture test stored maize seed and cutr forage crops (before ensiling) - its a test I still use today - now well refined, and with the very same Sharpe microwave oven I used back then!

[Iamemjay]

I cannot buy a soil testing kit locally - even a Ph kit. Strangely neither does our village seem to have a local person to do soil testing administered by the DLD.

But I CAN buy a water PH testing kit from a local farm supplies shop.

Can this be used to provide a rough guide? (ie. adding soil to neutral water, allowing to stand for a while and then testing that in the same manner as a normal water test.)

[Harcourt]

Just to clarify as it's quite important.... "or available for free when you empty your steam kettle i.e it's P.H. neutral.)"... "sterile" water is not distilled water. Distilled has been evaporated and the steam collected.... boiled water, although sterile, can still contain minerals that will affect the pH.

[cloghead]

I was at the Chantaburi Agricultural Facility yesterday to ask if they could test some soil. Quite an impressive set-up...160 rai in all.

I brought a sandwich baggie worth of soil and they said the sample wasn't enough. They need a kilogram and it should be from at least 15 centimeters deep. They test in their facility and the lab and equipment looked impressive and professional. Depending how busy they are you'll receive a full report in 10 days or so (white paper form). No charge but donations are welcome.

Call their # 039 397076, 039 397134. Some of the staff speak excellent English--at least the man in the front office does and they should give you the contact # for the office in your province.

The brochure pics are crap but the test report form is sort of legible

[jandtaa]

Just to clarify as it's quite important.... "or available for free when you empty your steam kettle i.e it's P.H. neutral.)"... "sterile" water is not distilled water. Distilled has been evaporated and the steam collected.... boiled water, although sterile, can still contain minerals that will affect the pH.

 sorry must have had too much Chang when I posted. What the hel_l is a steam kettle ?? I was thinking about using water from a condenser clothes dryer to fill a steam iron (recommended to stop a build up of minerals) !!

"Natural water usually contains a number of microscopic contaminants, along with dissolved minerals such as calcium and iron. One way to remove these elements from water is to boil it until it changes to steam, a process known as distillation. When this steam is allowed to cool down and condense into liquid form again, the result is a purified form called distilled water. Distilled water should ideally be nothing but hydrogen and oxygen molecules, with a PH level of 7 and no additional gases, minerals or contaminants.

The distilling process relies on the principle that most solid materials found in water are heavier than the water molecules themselves. When water is heated in a distiller, any dissolved solids such as salt, bacteria, calcium or iron remain solid while the pure water converts to a much lighter steam and is drawn out for condensation. Distilled water has a noticeably bland taste because all of the minerals which give water its flavor have been removed."

sorry once again for "spouting" gibberish

cheers J 

[MJP]

Hi guys, I want to get some soil tested for the following: clay, silt, organic content, soluble sulfites, etc and don't know the Thai name of such a test(s). Also, would the universities around Chiang Rai be the place to go or to a government agency. I have the ASTM standard references, but to explain in Thai I am lost. Any help??

The basic minimum test standards are to ISO17025:2005. After that it's down to the analytical accreditation scheme of the particular country. Most likely the Japanese standards here, I forget the name of the accreditation system now.