Marriage visa and work permit

[kwiz117]

Some very valuable information for me in this section. Thanks for all postings.

Thought to get some advises and opinions about Marriage Visa and Work Permit.

I am planning to get married to my Thai GF in December this year under the Thai Law. I am presently employed in Thailand and have been employed and living in Thailand for last 3 years.

I reloacted to Thailand 3 Yrs back to be with her and I think I have enough proof to convince them about our relationship.

Right now I do not have any Visa problem as I am having a Non-Immi B and a Work permit.

But the Work Permit rule say that in the future, if by chance I loose the job, I will have to leave Thailand within 7 days of the Resignation.  I did a job change in last year and my new Company had to apply for the work permit within 7 days after my previous Company informed about my Resignation to the Immigration Department and the Work Permit Office.

1. If this situation occur in the future and if I am married to a Thai, am I in a position to apply for a O type Marraige VISA without leaving Thailand?

2. Is it easy for me to obtain an O Type Visa based on the Marriage to a Thai NOW coz of my Work Permit in Thailand ?

3. Do you think it is better for me to change my present VISA type to O type Marriage Visa, so I will be in a much safer situation?

4. If your answer to above question 3 is Yes, then am I in a position to get a 1 Yr Extension of my O Type VISA coz the Work Permit usually valid for 1Yr or 2 Yr Period?

Hope I have put down my questions and concerns clearly.

Thank you

[dr_Pat_Pong]

You cannot do anything about a spouse 'O' visa until you are legally married. You will have to apply outside Thailand but it can be done regionally.

[lopburi3]

I think I have enough proof to convince them about our relationship.

Who?  All you need is the paper from your Embassy, translated and certified by Foreign Ministry and you are free to marry.  Don't believe many district officers will expect a detailed account of your relationship.  If if they do you can just go to the next District.

If you are planning to leave Thailand and obtain an immigrant visa for her then it does become an issue and you are indeed in a good position.

I would just stay with your present visa.  If job ends Immigration does have the authority to issue a visa in country and would probably do so.  If not it would only be a trip to Penang to obtain.  The only requirement for class O non immigrant visa is your marriage.

[Richard Hall]

But the Work Permit rule say that in the future, if by chance I loose the job, I will have to leave Thailand within 7 days of the Resignation.  

Well, this quote hit me a little bit by surprise particularly because a visa and a work permit are two different issues.

My understanding was if you hold a valid visa (in this case a non-immigrant this does not necessarily force you to hold a work permit. Means even if you resign from your work you can stay in the country in accordance to your visa validity.

I just cross checked the rules in my work permit and found the following note:

Page 31, Warning, Paragraph 4

"In case where an alien resigns from the work which is specified in the permit, he shall return the permit to the Registar of the changwat where the place of work is located within seven days from the date of his resignation. Any violation thereof shall be liable to finde not exceeding one thousand Bath"

NO mention at all that you've got to leave the country particularly in respect that Immigration and Labour Department do NOT really work hand in hand which is basically a situation with all those Ministries and Departments. In Immigration the 4th floor does not even care (know) what the people in the 1st floor do. Also the work permit generally  follows the visa and not the other way around.

In respect of any visa change without leaving the country see Khun Pallop in Immigration (I believe to remember he is on 2nd floor). But anyway, to change to a non-immigrant O you have to be married first or Khun Pallop will not even drop his newspaper to hand you the relevant forms.

Marriage in Thailand: Your Thai bride requires a statement issued by her home ampoe stating that she is single. This document (translated into your language by a certified and accepted interpreter) has to be forwarded to your home country and the appropriate authority there issues a certificate "allowing" you to get married to your Thai bride on base that you are both single. On base of this certificate you local embassy will issue you a bi-lingual statement which enables you to get married. ONLY this statement by the embassy eventually gets you in the position to get married here. You may have any "better" documents from your home county but these are without any relevance since ONLY the embassies have the final word if a farang wants to get married in Thailand.

Suggest you are seeing you work permit independant from your visa. If you intend to quit your job return your work permit within 7 days and keep staying on your visa. When the time comes to extend your visa make the decision what the best solution will be in that very moment by paying a visit to Khun Pallop.

[lopburi3]

Marriage in Thailand: Your Thai bride requires a statement issued by her home ampoe stating that she is single. This document (translated into your language by a certified and accepted interpreter) has to be forwarded to your home country and the appropriate authority there issues a certificate "allowing" you to get married to your Thai bride on base that you are both single.

Perhaps you should say what embassy/country requires this as I have never heard of any such thing and I have done the deed.   ???

[Richard Hall]

Marriage in Thailand: Your Thai bride requires a statement issued by her home ampoe stating that she is single. This document (translated into your language by a certified and accepted interpreter) has to be forwarded to your home country and the appropriate authority there issues a certificate "allowing" you to get married to your Thai bride on base that you are both single.

Perhaps you should say what embassy/country requires this as I have never heard of any such thing and I have done the deed.   ???

Sorry to miss out on this - the mentioned procedure at least goes for Germany. Done it twice, last year for myself and just now for a friend.

Interesting if other countries/embassies do not have this requirement but possibly the Germans overdo it one more time and  make absolutely sure that no one has a chance to engage in bigamie.

Actually, it is so  strict that you only have "one shot" upon providing the single status document for your Thai spouse to be because the marriage allowance from the German authorities indicates exactly whom you are entitled to marry (mispelling a name causes lots of trouble and forces you to go all over the entire procedure again). Means last minute changes to rather go for the sister of your bride are not going to work without re-applying. If you are German and there is even proof that you are single that does not necessarily mean you can just choose your spouse randomly. Pick her/him first and ask big Uncle Germany afterwards whether your choice is acceptable.  Ain't that great knowing someone is watching over you so carefully?

Indepenant from the German rules, however, in any case the message that the embassies have the one and only word seems to go for everyone. When I made the vow last year there was an American ready to do the same, procuring a nice looking gold framed document directly coming from Uncle Sam's hand but not  impressive enough for the Thai authorities. They sent that guy and his bride to the US embassy instead to get a document (let's simply call it wedding allowance) from there.

[lopburi3]

That explains it.

There is a Thai requirement for a paper (good person) from your embassy that has been translated/regestered at the Foreign Ministry.  It seems some embassies require (much) more than others in the form of proof.

[kwiz117]

My understanding was if you hold a valid visa (in this case a non-immigrant this does not necessarily force you to hold a work permit. Means even if you resign from your work you can stay in the country in accordance to your visa validity.

Suggest you are seeing you work permit independant from your visa. If you intend to quit your job return your work permit within 7 days and keep staying on your visa. When the time comes to extend your visa make the decision what the best solution will be in that very moment by paying a visit to Khun Pallop.

Hi Richard

I was exactly thinking in same line that you have mentioned in your reply about the Work Permit and the VISA. I got to know this only when I resigned from my previous Company and almost faced with a very difficult situation by not knowing the correct procedure. Let me write you the story.

I came to Thailand to be with my Thai GF and to marry her. I met her when I came to Bangkok to do some project to the Company I worked around 3 Years Back. Then I wanted to relocate myself to Thailand and fortunately found an American Company in Thailand to offer me a job.

Based on the Job Offer, I got a non-immigrant B Type VISA for 3 Months validity to enter into Thailand. After I arrived, the American Company [lets called it as X] applied for my Work Permit. I visited the “One Stop BOI, VISA and Work Permit” office at Suthisan Junction for this.

Once the work permit specified the period permitted to work in Thailand, [initially it was for 2 years in my case], the VISA officer issued a fresh Non-Immigrant B type Visa covering the exact Period [ie: 2 Years] after canceling my previous 3 month Visa.

Once I got my 2 Yr Visa, I also noted the exact instructions in the Work Permit [“To handover the work permit within 7 days of resigning”] and came to the same conclusion as you are. I thought even if the Company I work Fire me out, all I have to do is to handover the Work Permit to the One-Stop office within 7days and start looking for a new job. I thought nothing will happen to the VISA and I will be able to live in Thailand even without a Job until the last date of the VISA in my Passport.

After working with this X Company for 1 Year, I got a good break from another Company in Thailand [Company Y]

I gave Company X, 1 Month notice and happily joined with Company Y.

But for some luck, this Company Y had a Thai Girl who had a similar experience before and informed me to instruct Company X, not to inform the One Stop office about the Resignation until she prepare and submit the documents for my New Work Permit.

But unfortunately I was late to inform Company X about this, coz I never thought the implication of this.

After this, the Company Y took me to the One Stop office with the new application set for the Work Permit.

I was very fortunate to meet a very understanding and helpful Thai officer in VISA section.

First thing, the officer asked was, “Did Company X informed about my Resignation and where is the Copy of it?” Also she asked me the date that Company X has put in that letter. I said that I am not aware about the handlings of Company X now, as I have already left that Company. Then she got the phone number of Company X and called them directly to get all details she needed. Based on the details given, the officer took the original letter given to them by Company X from some cupboard and wanted me to go to Company X with that letter and to get it changed to a date within last 7 days. [it was 12 days after resigning from Company X]

She clearly mentioned that as soon as the person resign, not only I have to handover my work permit but the Company employed me also have to inform about the date of resignation to that office.

She also said very clearly once they get the date of Resignation from the Company I worked, they cancel the previous VISA in my Passport [They did it in my case] and then Reissue a 7 day VISA to stay in Thailand [They did this too]

But, if you have another application for a new Work permit [this means a new job offer], then you will not have to leave Thailand “provided the Date of joining of Company Y fallen to a date before the expiration of the new 7 day VISA”.

I do hope this story will help you to get the correct picture as I faced with this situation and thanks to this very practical and helpful officer managed to sort out a VISA run situation and a big penalty. Further, should mentioned that the Company X went out of way to issue a new Letter after pulling out the previous letter to help me to sort out this 7 day notice problem.

Therefore, the VISA and the Work Permit is very closely link and not independent.

This will be applicable only if you have a non-immigrant B visa issued based on the Work Permit.

Please take this date formula very seriously to avoid any problems if you are in the process of changing your present job.

[Richard Hall]

Hi kwiz117,

thanks for feedbacking your experience which surely sheds some new light on the link between non immigrant B and the WP. No doubt, I'm going to take this very seriously.

Guess best approach for anyone holding a work permit and considering any kind of change is the trip to Labor Department and  inform them well before making the actual move. Fill in all the necessary forms and possibly apply for a new work permit or any change while still working under the old conditions and resign the old one when the new one is already in place.

But anyway, possibly yours may be a special case because your  work permit and visa was granted under extraordinary conditions  means one stop at BOI, 2 years visa and work permit are priviledges usually far beyond the reach of the average mortal individual with no more to expect than 1 year in maximum. Well, however, special rights may not come without tougher rules particularly when visa and WP are issued at the same place rather than one being steadily forced to go back and forth between Soi Suan Plu Immigration and Ding Daeng Labor Department and usually taking somewhere between 6 weeks and 3 months before everything is in line.

This year I got my work permit quickly (indication that a full year will be granted as soon as the non immigrant visa B for the full year has been stamped into the passport). It took immigration  eventually 3 months to come up with the stamp and I got rather "under consideration, please report again in 4 weeks" instead and therefore the work permit came in monthly pieces too. Whenever there was another "under consideration" visa stamp I had to go to Sukhumvit Labor Department, fill in a short form and pay up 750 Baht to get another month of permission to work. Means Immigration did not care much about that 1 year WP already pre-granted but followed rather their own path by obviously checking whether I was actually the good boy I prentended to be. Maybe on this occasion it needs to be mentioned that in spring this year another change in staff just happened to occur in Immigration and the new officiers in charge took starting on the job very seriously possibly trying to detect any black spots in the past.

Anyway, as per your advice we should take that issue very seriously indeed and rather make the walk to the authorities a little earlier than just one day late to avoid getting to be confronted with the nightmare of the nightmares: "Everything is void and one needs to start from scratch again". Share your ideas for the future with the officiers in charge and obtain their advice what the best approach will be to make them true (the ideas not the officiers) and the odds for unpleasant surprises will obviously minimize.

That's join in a minute of silence for hope that our wisdom and feet let us make show up at the right spot and in time ever so  that our lives and smiles in LOS remain reasonably bright instead  of turning sour in a flash.      

[kwiz117]

Guess best approach for anyone holding a work permit and considering any kind of change is the trip to Labor Department and  inform them well before making the actual move. Fill in all the necessary forms and possibly apply for a new work permit or any change while still working under the old conditions and resign the old one when the new one is already in place.

Hi Richard,

As per my understading above quote will not work.

I am also not sure the difference between Normal Work Permits and BOI Work Permits. May be someone might help to clarify this point. I am under the impression, that both are very similer except for the fact that BOI provides the Company that recruit you pre-defined positions for expats at the time of BOI approval granted. Further I am aware, that normal WP get 1 Yr and only BOI WP will grant 2 Yr. I also thought 1 Stop Service centre will handle even normal WP.  

You also have provided some new facts that I was not aware of. I never thought Work Permits will issue “on consideration and report this date etc”.

I am 28 Yrs and working as an IT Consultant. I do not have a Company and I am working for someone else’s Company [A US Company in Bangkok]. I am not sure about your situation.

One thing you should check immediately is to see the possibility of getting your VISA and Work Permit throu' the “one stop service center” at Suthisan/Rachada junction. It is a one-day service. The maximum it took for me to get my VISA and Work Permit is 1 DAY. No need to go throu' the agents and they have clear instructions and a checklist to follow. [Also it is the responsibility of the Company that employee you and not yours]

I am supprised to here the long periods taken to obtain your work permit; that you have mentioned in above reply.

It is no point to walk into the Work Permit office before you leave the Job. All they can do is advice you. This again will depend on the officer.

They will not proceed with your new work permit or even accept any application, until you leave officially and until they get a notice from the Company you work saying you have resigned from the XXXX position on XXXX date.

But you should definitely do some other important activity before you hand-over your Resignation letter to your present company.

Instead of visiting the Work Permit Place or VISA office, you should meet up with your New Company and make them register a Position for you. [Assuming that this is not an Expat to Expat replacement for your new Company]. If the Company you work do not have any approved position for an Expat, then this will apply.

Otherwise nothing to worry.

Why I say this is, to approve a new position for an Expat, it will take at least 7-10 days [Thai timing] provided that Company does this in One Stop Service Center.

You do not need to resign from your present position for your new Company to start approving a position for you. [This was the delay occurred in my case]

Once the position is approved, then comes the work permit procedure. But still you will not be able to apply for a new work permit until your present company inform the work permit office about your resignation and you hand-over your work permit within 7 days of the date of resignation.  When you go to hand-over your WP, you will have to fill a form and then you will have to go to the VISA section, produce your Passport, cancel your VISA and re-stamp new 7 days VISA. Until you do this they will not accept your WP.

If by chance your present Company delay informing the WP office beyond 7 days [This is a possibility if your present Company is not in a good mood about your resignation] then you are not in a position to apply for the work permit, even though you hand-over your work permit according to rules and regulations.

Do not worry. Just make sure you report before the expiration of your 7-day VISA and get a letter from the work permit section the reason for the delay in processing your new WP. This will help to stamp another extension without any questions.

You will not have any problem for 7 day VISA coz it is nothing to do with your side for the delay. The work permit office will charge 1,000 Bht per day penalty from your old office for violating the rules and they will be blacklisted in the future if they decline to response for repeated warnings.

Hope this will make things more clear.

[Richard Hall]

You also have provided some new facts that I was not aware of. I never thought Work Permits will issue “on consideration and report this date etc”.

Hi Kwiz117,

sorry, slight misunderstanding. The stamp "under consideration please report again" does not refer to the WP but rather the visa.

No, can not go for the 1 day stop because this is reserved only for employees of companies with registered capital of at least 30 million Baht while my own tiny little company is based on 2.5 millions only.

Well, since I'm my own employer I'm in a different situation than you and when I actually resign I will try to sell the company or close it down. At this stage no consideration at all to change the job.

Yes, you are absolutely right not the employee but rather the employer needs to do the major part when it comes to applying for a work permit because they have to provide stacks of paperwork (registration, shareholder list, tax payment info etc.) along with the application. So in may case I do both parts.  

Maybe just out of curiosity, one day when I'm at the Labor Department in Ding Dang I'm just going to ask them about the procedures when quitting or changing a job and whether they consider the present visa invalid when doing.

In any case one must clearly distinguish between a big shot company with a substantial back-up of cash and the small establishments because as we all know money is still the most important issue in the country.

If you are presently working for a company entitled for that "one stop service center" and intend to stay in Thailand, better stick to that job particularly in respect of the forthcoming black clouds of July 2004.

A friend of mine (French) used to be employed as Managing Director at a big company as well and for more than 10 years there was no reason to worry about visa and WP renewal basically done in a blink. Now he has his own 6 people company and this year experienced the difference.

It appears that the situation that you've got to hike, wait and hope when your company's capital is below that multi million figure is going to continue while the big bucks buy you a quickie, a smile and getting your shoulder petted.

More than ever the differences between the two classes becomes obvious. There is the paying and the praying group. This first group buys the right to be and work here while the other one prays to make it somehow through another year. Extension Day turns more and more into Judgement Day

[Indo-Siam]

When an entry permit extension is granted on the basis of employment with a work permit,, if the work permit is cancelled due to termination of employment, then the entry permit is also cancelled.  If you still have validity remaining on a non-immigrant visa, then you can leave Thailand and re-enter, for 90 days.

The key here is that although the visa (issued by Foreign Ministry post outside Thailand) may still be valid, an entry permit extension (Issued by Interior Ministry - Police Immigration) that was based on a work permit is cancelled when that work permit is cancelled.

With a Class O visa, you will only be allowed to remain in Thailand for 90 days - unless you apply for an entry permit extension.  This can be based on independent financial support (if you can show sufficient funds in a Thai bank account), or employment (if you have a work permit).  

Again, if an extended entry permit is issued based on employment/work permit, and that employment/work permit end, the entry permit extension is cancelled.  Your permission to remain in Thailand is cancelled.  But this does not affect your permission to ENTER Thailand, if you still have a valid visa.

People endlessly mix up visas and entry permits.  They are not at all the same.  Expiration or cancellation of one does not affect the other.

I would see no benefit in changing to a Class O status while employed, unless you met financial qualifications to obtain an entry permit extension based on money in a Thai bank.  If you cannot qualify based on savings, then your extended entry permit will be cancelled if your work permit is cancelled, irregardless of whether you entered Thailand on a Class O or Class B visa.

Or so I understand.

[kwiz117]

Hi Steve

I am not confused with Entry Permit and VISA in this case. I again re-checked just now in my Passport before writing this reply; to make things 100% sure.

When I entered first time to Thailand the embassy in my country issued me a non immigrant B Visa. It is basically a printed Sticker that they have pasted stating the permitted period to stay [3 Months] in Thailand.

Then when I first got my WP, the VISA section in One-Stop-Service had issued me a VISA and it is a Rubber Stamp. They have written manually the effective period and some signature and some other seal.

Since I always need the multiple re-entry permit, in another page they have put another Stamp with the heading “Multiple Re-Entry Non Immigrant” wordings. The period in that  exactly identical to the period stated in the VISA.

I am very confident that the Company Paid VISA fees separate and I paid 1,000 Bht for the Multiple Re-Entry stamp on the same day.

Since I changed the job once, both times One-Stop Service centre had done the same thing.

Therefore, I am very confident with this and when they issued the new WP they have canceled the previous VISA as well as the re-entry permit.

Hi Richard,

Thanks for informing about the 30 million Bht limit requirement needed to approach the One Stop Visa centre and also for your valuable Advice.

It will be very helpful for me as I am almost in the process of changing my job again. I will definitely check the Share Capital of this new Singapore Based Company, before I give my final word.

Thank you once again and let me stick into Non-Immigrant B until someone sack me from the job. 5555

[Indo-Siam]

Kwiz -

I have NEVER heard of a VISA (permission to enter Thailand, issued by a Thai Embassy outside Thailand) making any reference to the length of the entry permit that will be issued by Interior Ministry upon entry to Thailand.  The VISA simply has a validity period of its own - it lists its own date by which travel to Thailand must be accomplished.  This is typically 30, 60, 90 days, or one year.

I have also NEVER heard of a VISA being issued inside Thailand.  What is typically issued inside Thailand is an ENTRY PERMIT.  Or an entry permit extension.

Look at the stamp.  If the English word "Immigration" appears on the stamp, it is NOT a visa.  It is an ENTRY PERMIT.  It will also have the word visa on it (as part of "visa class") - but it will be a document issued by Immigration, which is not Foreign Ministry - and onlt FM can issue visas.

If it is a VISA, it will have a Garuda emblem or symbol.

A reentry permit will have both a Garuda emblem, and the words reentry permit on them. And also "Immigration Thailand".

Cheers!

Steve

[lopburi3]

VISA ISSUING AUTHORITIES

         Official Agencies in charge of issuing visas are

1. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs

2. The Royal Thai Embassies and Consulates abroad

3. The Office of Immigration Bureau

 

I have also NEVER heard of a VISA being issued inside Thailand.  What is typically issued inside Thailand is an ENTRY PERMIT.  Or an entry permit extension.

Do not believe it is common; but it is possible.