'Ruling out the foreigner'

[mrentoul]

Interpretation welcome of this piece, based on an interview with an immigration police officer in Chiang Mai.

Thailand ruling out foreigners? New immigration rules from July, 2004

[Spellbound]

Great Link  from mrentoul

MAKE SURE YOU ALL CLICK THE LINK RIGHT AT THE BOTTOM OF THE TEXT. (See "My Chiangmai" for first reactions to these vital new proposals from 6 local foreigners)

(Very racist comment from a Thai Doctor (bet he's gay,like most Thai men)

[LPCustom69]

Mrentoul, Thank you for sharing a most enlightening article. It seems as if the worst fears of many farangs will be realized. The way I read the article, they will even be checking with the banks to make sure the income/account requirements are not deposited and then pulled after meeting the requirements. So the money has to stay, and even then an individual may not be permittted to stay.

They want most of the businessmen to leave. And it seems like they are willing to rip apart families and relationships to  accomplish their goals. WOW! At least they are giving advance notice this time.

[Roger13]

(Very racist comment from a Thai Doctor (bet he's gay,like most Thai men)

You think that Chaichok Chumpswiddle (Dr.)

is a Gay Thai?

Sounds more like a Tongue in Cheek Farang to me !

Roger

[Spellbound]

(Very racist comment from a Thai Doctor (bet he's gay,like most Thai men)

dry humour, sarcastic (thought you would relise that)

[Roger13]

Evidence of income (eg pensions) and evidence of the necessity to stay here permanently must be submitted.

This is under the heading of Retirement Visas.

So we will be required to show

"evidence of the necessity to stay here permanently"

- What does that mean?

Roger

[zer(-)biwan]

Dumb, dumb and dumber. Will they ever learn? I guess not.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Evidence of income (eg pensions) and evidence of the necessity to stay here permanently must be submitted.

This is under the heading of Retirement Visas.

So we will be required to show

"evidence of the necessity to stay here permanently"

- What does that mean?

Roger

Roger....I think this only means your valid reason for staying on in Thailand.

[jonwilly]

Gents it's their country and they will run it to suit their requirements.

I will stick to my previous sayings that if you have a polite correct manner and play their game according to their rules then you should be OK.

I notice the other day in the on line press that the terrorist Hambali had been living in Thailand and sending his passport out for 'his visa runs'. That this has been brought to the attention of the PM who has many world leaders visiting for the forthcoming apec meeting, and has lead to the crackdown that is now causeing problems for so many frangs.

i will suggest that now there is bad attitude, from our point of view, in immigration and that it will continue untill after the OPEC meeting.

jon

[KenUdon]

Can you imagine the outcry if these sort of rules were applied to Thais living in our home countries?

At the moment, at least for the UK, Thais enjoy the same rights and benefits as UK nationals when living in England. This includes being able to buy land, and houses, yes not just one house, as many as they want. They do not live under the terrible uncertainty doubt about your next visa run or renewal. They are entitled to drive with a Thai Driving Licence (God help us) and not face the prospect of the insurance company wriggling out of a claim using invalid licence as an excuse as happens here. There are man many more instances where Thais are treated very fairly overseas in comparison to the way farangs are treated here, and the situation is getting ludicrous. Makes you wonder how much worse it can get before it becomes unrealistic to stay in Thailand long-term. Yes, Yes, I know that is what they want. Yes, Yes, I know it is THEIR country,  but I am talking about what is fair, decent and right.

[KenUdon]

GEORGE. - Doesn't this article seem to answer our question about the 800k - 1.5mill baht account balance for the retirement visa?

[JT65]

Hi All

Read the article and cerainly was a doosie.  Looks like everyones worst fears may be realised. This should affect a lot of people and not just farang.

Does it mean that one year Non Immigrant type visas will be stopped unless you fit one of the categories listed in the article. Im curious about people who export a lot from Thailand but are not emplyed here. Will be difficult to carry on business as usual without multiple B entry visas?

[MaiChai]

I think this proves the point that you can never sever your links with your home country. Until the Thais give you citizenship, then always assume you are just a guest, and can be kicked out whenever the political will exists. Thus my simple advice would be to enjoy the benefits you have in your home country, and come to Thailand and stay whenever you can afford it.

However, this seems to be over reaction by the government (and Taksin) to Hambali, the impending visit by Bush, and the general FUD about global terrorism. The reality is that whatever is workable will happen; if the proposed system becomes too unworkable, then the rules will be bent. TiT. However, the Thais will use the laws to their benefit when they see fit.

For me, it gives a different outlook on LOS. I won't be making any major investments here (major purchases, etc), and will be taking my family to the UK next year where they can benefit from a freer and more liberal society. We will come and holiday in LOS when the desire takes us/when we can afford it. And my wife will work towards getting her UK passport so she can enjoy the benefits of visa free international travel.

The writing is on the wall. Foreigners are only welcome if they are rich and can be milked.

[plachon]

You said it MaiChai! The govt's only refrain, loud and clear to foreigners these days is "WE DON'T WANT YOU, BUT WE WANT YOUR CASH!' or "Your love gives me such a thrill, but your love won't pay the bills, I want..........."

but didn't you love that little smoozle at the end with allowing "low paid journalists" to remain. I'm sure Shawn Crispin et al. at FEER are mighty relieved to hear that along with our v. own poster of the thread.

[PREM-R]

I have been here only 9 months and was wondering what date the Thais had their equivelent of "April fools day" now I know its 3rd September.

    It must be a hoax, everyone to need sack loads of income to stay (except jounalists, "who are good for Thailand"), don't think Toxin shares this love of Journalists, expecially foreign ones.

    Have george, dr p.p. et all, the expats with their fingers on the pulse heard anything of this from the people who know people?

 Surely  any legislation that breaks up families and potentially forces Thais into poverty because their 'supporters' can no longer stay in  the Kingdom is against human rights standards.

 If this madness is true then we need someone to contact the offices of His Majesty, who will surely not let his subjects suffer because of some tinpot scheme.

[george]

I have been here only 9 months and was wondering what date the Thais had their equivelent of "April fools day" now I know its 3rd September.

    It must be a hoax, everyone to need sack loads of income to stay (except jounalists, "who are good for Thailand"), don't think Toxin shares this love of Journalists, expecially foreign ones.

I am afraid this is definitively NOT an April fools joke!

[Thailand]

Just renewed our one year "retirement" visa at Chiangmai all very smooth and a total of about 35 minutes and the staff were exceptionaly courteous.

Perhaps the staff knew that their workload is going to go down dramatically as less and less Farangs will be able to meet the requirements.

I have just spent 3.5 mill on a very nice house, looks like our next move is to have to put it up for sale and look elsewhere!

The lack of logic astounds me, perhaps we should all become journalists!

[jayrockwell]

Q:“Isn’t this going to have an immediate effect on native teachers of English? If they have to leave in large numbers, will not the teaching of English suffer here?”

A:“No, because most of them are employees rather than proprietors of businesses.”

We have all been aware of the proposed new minimum salaries for foreigners for sometime. As far as I know there has been no mention of the new salaries only being for 'proprietors'. Does anybody (does he) know what he is talking about?

I'm quite happy to become only an employee.

James

[parryhandy]

well i just hope those of you with money will use it to gain publicity in the west for what is happening and actively discourage tourists from coming here.they dont seem to play ball on anything and  milk the fact that we have caring human rights in the west.its about time agencies and govns stopped helping them until they learn to appreciate it.

i am poor by their criteria and will therefore be seperated from my two daughters. how can this be right ? this is not about apec this is next july apec is next month.

[Artisi]

Well what can one say other than "This is Thailand". I for one don't really have any problem with the Thai's being as tough as they like with anybody deemed to be undesirable. But what constitutes an undesirable, it's certainly not someone who is living here working in a legitimate job, paying their taxes every year, medical insurance, driving license fee, obeying the laws of the country and generally contributing to the economy as best they can, possibly married and looking after a spouse and possibly some of the spouses family and like myself working towards retiring here one day to live out the rest of their life using my savings together with a small retirement income.

What is really difficult to understand is, if you take a logical view of the requirements and not the view that "they only want my money' - which they won't get anyway, is the necessity for the such a high bank balance and  a monthly income of 5 - 6 maybe even 8 times that of a university lecturer or similar. I certainly don't need this amount of disposable income each month to live quite well here in Thailand and if forced to bring this amount in each month I would simply withdraw it in cash - deposit it in my wife's account and transfer it back to where it came from, simple solution but completely unnecessary and illogical and of no benefit to Thailand. But who can ever follow the logic of some of these decision makers anyway.

Unfortunately if this wasn't so serious it would be funny - but like most decisions made by some half-wit, passing themselves off as being highly educated, capable of original thought and rational thinking and with having an understanding of the real world, it will be pushed through as law and implemented without any consideration of the consequences.

So what is a few more deserted families, wives or children to these idiots - absolutely nothing  so long as we can keep the foreigners inline. Well just maybe the stupid foreigner will decide that enough is enough and decide to show their complete contempt for such stupidity and move off elsewhere where we might be welcomed.

[Hurricane51]

As I read through this interpretation, it seems to me that the requirements for an over-50 retired foreigner, not married to a Thai national, has been spared any modifications. 800,00 baht bank account, 65,000 baht monthly, or combination of the two. Is that the consensus among "veteran" retirees on this board?

[KenUdon]

and evidence of the necessity to stay here permanently must be submitted.

Hurricane, I think you will find that this is the part that will cause the problems, and will apply to ALL categories of Retirement Visas.  I have no idea how one would be able to submit evidence to this effect, and if it really does become necessary, will again be subject to interpretation, and create a huge grey area........another one!

[Spellbound]

Ok, we are all bitching and going-on. People are saying what about our Consulate and why are they not acting on this truly extreme act as stated by the Thai Immigration Office. Maybe just maybe our Consulate / Embassies are unaware of what the Thai government is proposing.

There has been some good postings from the married with children forum members, truly stating the harm and distress these new rules may cause to normal hard working, caring, loving parents whether Falang or Thai. Also for sure small business holders must be shaking in their boots and stand to lose out, this in turn will put Thais out of work.

I propose we get every Falang we know to email their respective Consulate/Embassy in BKK and Home Country,then post a copy on this forum as a record so they cannot deny receiving the emails / letters. ALSO A COPY SENT TO THE THAI IMMAGRATION / TOXIN etc

I also suggest we ALL point out the fact that our communications are copied onto every Thai related forum and we can find and supply them with the URL. .

Anyone think this is a good idea?

They want to <deleted> us, So lets <deleted> with them.

Thoughts Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you post I think you should remove you “REAL NAME” from the index sections, just so they can record your name. (You need that new visa)

Maybe just maybe they will respond, but I for one won't be holding my breath.

[paulmw]

Quote from article.

A: “If there are special circumstances, such as the foreigner cannot comply and the Thai national cannot return to the foreigner’s own country with them, they can supply evidence to be considered.”

Intresting how many countries refuse Thais married to falangs on the Thai's finacial standing to settle in the spouses home country!!!

What if the Thai wife is the bread winner owner of the business??

Paul W

[ahddub]

If I don't meet their income standards, will I be able to take my money (over a million baht) home with me?

Who can authoritatively answer this question?  I can't bring any more money into the country with this kind of risk.

Or maybe they're just looking to earn more on visa fees from 90-day visas.  If this were the case then they could facilitate it by drastically raising the 90-day visa fee but save us on travel costs by allowing in-country renewals.

[xok]

Hi,

I own a 365 days visa (1 year) as condo investor superior to 3 MThb.

What about this kind of visa? Is it finish? Lt Col Banpote Kittiweera don't talk about this.

Do you know something about this?

Thanks

[w7mux]

Is this just the local yokel giving his interpretation of a proposed change in the law or is this the gospel? I am (was) ready to fork over my 800,000 baht for the retirement visa but that's on hold for now.

[KenUdon]

The following new proposals are due to be made law and put into effect by July next year. They could have profound effects on foreigners applying for 1 year visas because they run small businesses in Thailand – and/or those wishing to stay here due to their marriage to a Thai national, or other family links. Here are the proposed measures, with comments from Lt-Col. Banpote Kittiweera of Immigration Police, Chiangmai

w7mux. If you look at the above, you will see that these are the proposals put together by the commitee on immigration, and only with added COMMENTS from the Lt Col. in charge of Chiang Mai Imm. If you look further at his comments,, you will see that he does NOT expect any changes to these measures.

I wish I could say otherwise, but may be better to keep the money outside the country now!......wish I had!

[mrvietnam2001]

Once upon a time the state of California imposed VERY heavy levels of taxation of rare coin dealers and to their thinking, we were stuck with that crap because for over 20 years we in the dealer community had assembled at Long Beach for a twice yearly major coin show.

ICTA ( Industry Counsel for Tangible Assetts) looked to solicit hundreds of thousands of dollars from us to "litigate" against this major intrusion into the industry and I was approached as a member.

I disagreed with "litigating". I said "move the show" to a more friendly state and out of the whole country is we have too. After all, over 20,000 collectors, dealers and others usually attend these shows and the vast amounts of money we represent should send a signal when we leavye that we don't NEED california or anyone else. This was met with " but Tom, 20 years! 20 years!" to which I replied " exactly".

Finally the show was moved to Arizona one year    Strange how the hotels, car rental companies, restarants etc etc etc etc ALL complained to the state and miraculously the laws were then "changed" to be more accomadating to we coin dealers and so we still have our Long Beach.

It IS all about money in Thailand as well as everywhere else. Use that to your advantage  and if you don't have thre chutzpah to do so then you have no standing to say anything at all.

Mr Vietnam

Radical Libertarian

[DaveYo]

Hi everybody, well it looks like my predictions are truly coming into reality.  I did make some posts in the past of what will be happening to the foreigners in thailand, but many snubbed me as being foolish or whatever.  I even predicted that the business owners in Thailand will be the next target, soon after the beginning of the first wave of Immigration Law changes.

Well with this advance notice being given out now, TRUST IT, because it is going to happen by July of 2004 or very shortly thereafter once HRH signs the dotted line.  I even predicted that the 1 Year Visa will all but vanish and they will only deal with the 90 day and allow you to stay max 6 times for renewal and that puts the chances of you getting that Permanent Residency in grave doubt.

As to your BANK ACCOUNTS, I suggest this, transfer all this money to your spouse's account if you are legally married and have plans to leave the country.  Then start your withdrawals now each week, and send it to your Home country.   If you are a foreigner, the way this is written as of now, I think you will not be allowed to take it out.   They want to keep that money in Thailand.

As being a foreigner (single) and having this amount in Thailand but the way things are going,  one might want to transfer this money from the Thailand Banks to a Foreign Bank in Thailand. I do believe this way you can withdraw it and send it back home piece by piece via wire transfer.

 We are going to have to do a reversal process since from what I see here NOW, they are going to try to handcuff us financially and if we are forced to leave Thailand they will try to enforce us to keep that money there.

Another way is to withdraw all your funds now and keep it out of the Thailand Banks except to meet the minimum requirements, and send it from a Foreign Bank like Citibank, (as fast as possible before they discover your true motives) to your account at your Home Country.  If forced to leave then try your best to close out your account in Thailand, take the cash and convert it to your home country, which will be only a small loss, and take it with you in person out of there.  Make sure the money is of large denomination 100's.  So that will be in USA around 9,500 minimum to 19,500 Maximum.  Those retired have a real dilemma-  35,500 or more.

I am not sure about any of this, especially our money, but this truly does worry me if they say we cannot have it or take it with us.  We have to do something to protect our investments, bank accounts, and property now, before July 2004, because if this becomes a reality, they are going to literally kill us squeezing us to death MONEY WISE.

So for me right now I am faced with some problems and that is staying in Thailand to get that Permanent Residency.  I have the One Year now, so that is done, but renewing it will be a close call.  I might get lucky to get the second one before the new law takes effect, and make the 90 Day deals thereafter and make that Permanent Residency within the 3 year requirement with just one 90 day left to spare, if such one year is abolished in 2004.

If I get permanent residency (hopefully it is still available) then the visa issues for me becomes moot.  I think this is one way to escape the horrible changes taking place concerning Visa's.  But not the work permits, because of it soon being centralized as one.

Those who have property now, gawwwwd, if this gets signed by HRH, we all got to sell and get out.  Once the system becomes centralized it will become extremely very difficult to circumvent Visa's and work permits or Businesses, and our Money!  It will be their way to track us like bloodhounds no doubt instantly.

We got the time now, so I guess each of us has to make a monumentous decision in deciding our futures again, and of where to go from here.

I have to discuss this too with my Thai wife.   ???    :blues: