Reverse Culture Shock

[Thai at Heart]

With Heng on that one. Don't know about Canada but in EU it's quite difficult for a thai to move there if he just decides to do so. Not much of an issue in Thailand, most work and immigration documents can be arranged with some money and a not even good lawyer (mine was a non english speaking disaster and we still got 1 year visas for the family and 1 work permit for me ) . Besides rules are cumbersome in Thailand but so much can be done outside those rules one has to relativise. I mean my wife even noticed Superrich office indicated on a tourist map... than there's a competitive world out there...

Yes those rules are so relatively cumbersome that even Tesco and Telenor are bending them. From the biggest corporation to the littlest bar owner, companies have to jump through hoops to get going here. Yes I agree, the Asian way of starting businesses as an immigrant has proven successful. This isn't limited to only Asians however. I think you will find that the laws and policies of the relevant countries in which their businesses are based encourage people to get up and going with relatively little capital, paperwork and hard work.

Ironically, it would be nice to know if the successful Asians that people are discussing have taken citizenship of the countries in which they are living and so by Heng's measurement shouldn't be counted as Thai/Asian any more much in the same way that after one generation the successful Chinese and Indians are now counted completely as Thai.

[desertrat]

Thai friend recently told me his daughter was horrified (rightly so) that her landlady in Scotland only allowed her one bath a week. He said surely he could allow a bath/shower every day..why not?

I told him, The shower is largely unknown, the cost of heating the water is great.

So he said she can have a cold bath as in Thailand (Pails of water), I told him it was far too cold, he said it's summer there, so I told him it's Scotland it's freezing all year round.

Thai gf I took to HK really caught on quickly, while I was delayed, she drank the contents of the room mini-bar

Another gf I took to Switzerland was disparaging about the tiny houses on small plots of land, I explained to her they were toolsheds on peoples allotments.

BTW this girl was a knockout, we travelled all over Europe and went to many company dinners, they are stil talking about her today..25 years on.

My shock returning to UK, EVERYONE had a nice new car, NO-ONE I knew ever had any kind of car.

I left when it was LSD and stil do think in LSD, was having to ask "How much is that then ?"

They'd say, again, Fifteen Pee, I'd think and say FIFTEEN Shillings for a beer, it was only two shillings when I left.

sorry abot the on again off again quote marks.

[NewLifeNY]

In the USA there is always the running joke about how nobody wants to date Asian men, except for Asian girls who are not brave/mean enough to make their father want to kill himself by screwing a white guy. Quick, name an Asian male movie star who does not do karate. Therefore, I would imagine the hiso Thais going to school in the West would feel the same sort of insecurity that old farang feel when they go home - nobody is interested in them on a physical level, as opposed to Thailand where they are the man.

Most of the stuff listed in this thread is not about culture shock as it as about your partner not being the sharpest tool in the shed. Just saying.

so true!

[aussiejosh]

Going so far off topic the last couple pages lol, more about arguing about wealth and whose the more successful 'race'...

OP wasn't talking about this.

[Heng]

Ironically, it would be nice to know if the successful Asians that people are discussing have taken citizenship of the countries in which they are living and so by Heng's measurement shouldn't be counted as Thai/Asian any more much in the same way that after one generation the successful Chinese and Indians are now counted completely as Thai.

I wasn't suggesting it as a way to keep track of nationalities as I wasn't suggesting a contest or anything like that (which is the way an awful lot of people take it... IMO mostly because it suggests something to them about their own status in life).

Just academically observing that some groups don't last as long in a foreign environment... some do well is some places and less so in others. Plenty of recent Chinese and Indians don't count themselves as Thai as there isn't as much pressure to integrate. Plenty get Thai citizenship but don't discard their other nationality and instead maintain closer ties with their home country than the immigrants of 70-80+ years ago.

[Geekfreaklover]

Not too many things in the shock category as most of us travel back and forth. Um, I like that the automatic postal machines at the USPS actually work, unlike here... Is that a shocker?

Not too many Thai explorers, but if you compare plain jane Thais (and even the spoiled elite) who prosper abroad to foreigners (not counting the Chinese and Indians of course) who prosper here, it's no contest. Most foreigners give up after a relatively short struggle or spend their existence treading water here.

Could that be because Farangs have more limitations in what they can or can't do workwise and stricter immigration and labour policies than Asian settlers in Europe?... Or is it that Thai people are on the whole more worldly, better educated and more adaptable to working in a foreign country then westerners working in thailand ?

Not unlike humidity, drought, or cannibals, it's just another environmental condition that can be overcome.

Heng, please stay with the script.

We are not talking about Asians in general doing business overseas, we are talking about Thais conducting business overseas and the success rate of their ventures overseas compared with the sucess rate of Farangs working in thailand.

Most Europena countires allow Thai people to own land, buy houses and own companies ater a period of 2-3 years residency in the host nation. Compare this to the situation that foreigners have in Thailand.

The immigration system makes it easier for Thais to set up business overseas, but despite this they have not, in general terms been able to establish themselves, apart from the odd resturant or cleanng service, with the same success that Farangs have done in Thailand.

Lets think what Bill Heinke or Jim Thompson have acheived in thailand. Is there a Thai equvilent of these bsuinessmen working in the west, apart from Taksin.. I think not.

Despite working against all the odds in terms of immigration and company ownership farangs have made a sharp impact on thai business, for better or worse. Don't try to tell me that there are Thai's doing the same in west. As far as i know it is not happening.....Red Bull did well. Taksin is welcome in the States....

But please don't tell me that Thais are by nature gifted global businessmen. Because they aint.

well in my hometown in the uk there is a thai guy has 3 resturants, 2 in another town another somewhere else. hotel and a thai supermarket chain that supplies most of southern england with thai food imports.

Im guessing he makes alot of money as his ladbrookes betting lose was 109,000 pounds last year alone.

Come to the uk 15 years ago with nothing and probably the richest person i know.

That blows your theory out the water but yes he only paid my gf minimum a wage for 1 month before i found her a good job.

A couple of resturants and a gambling habit hardly constitutes an empire in the same way as the likes of Bill H. has built.. Built with more obsticles, ownership laws in his way.

[Geekfreaklover]

Not too many things in the shock category as most of us travel back and forth. Um, I like that the automatic postal machines at the USPS actually work, unlike here... Is that a shocker?

Not too many Thai explorers, but if you compare plain jane Thais (and even the spoiled elite) who prosper abroad to foreigners (not counting the Chinese and Indians of course) who prosper here, it's no contest. Most foreigners give up after a relatively short struggle or spend their existence treading water here.

Could that be because Farangs have more limitations in what they can or can't do workwise and stricter immigration and labour policies than Asian settlers in Europe?... Or is it that Thai people are on the whole more worldly, better educated and more adaptable to working in a foreign country then westerners working in thailand ?

Not unlike humidity, drought, or cannibals, it's just another environmental condition that can be overcome.

Heng, please stay with the script.

We are not talking about Asians in general doing business overseas, we are talking about Thais conducting business overseas and the success rate of their ventures overseas compared with the sucess rate of Farangs working in thailand.

Most Europena countires allow Thai people to own land, buy houses and own companies ater a period of 2-3 years residency in the host nation. Compare this to the situation that foreigners have in Thailand.

The immigration system makes it easier for Thais to set up business overseas, but despite this they have not, in general terms been able to establish themselves, apart from the odd resturant or cleanng service, with the same success that Farangs have done in Thailand.

Lets think what Bill Heinke or Jim Thompson have acheived in thailand. Is there a Thai equvilent of these bsuinessmen working in the west, apart from Taksin.. I think not.

Despite working against all the odds in terms of immigration and company ownership farangs have made a sharp impact on thai business, for better or worse. Don't try to tell me that there are Thai's doing the same in west. As far as i know it is not happening.....Red Bull did well. Taksin is welcome in the States....

But please don't tell me that Thais are by nature gifted global businessmen. Because they aint.

Geekfreak, please stop living vicariously through the top tier.

I'm saying there are more successful Thais abroad than there are successful foreigners of all nationalities here in Thailand.

As mentioned, I'm not talking about the numbers of Thais who have public companies on the NYSE. I'm talking about regular families who have SME's that have slowly expanded generation upon generation. They own restaurants, gas stations, supermarkets, Supercuts, KFC's, McDonald's, etc... and they typically do it all without getting sucked into or overwhelmed by the system by keeping their tax liabilities low (I'm sure other nationalities would choose to reinvest in a near tax free fashion in land "back home" IF they still had a "back home"). Compared to farangs who are typically more adept at transferring wealth outside of their family through long term rentals and dispersing it through non-productive branches of their extended families. I'm not sure how you define 'success,' but not even being able to circumvent legal frameworks meant for the huddled masses is not it.

You're saying that the rules here don't "allow" success... that's silly. Bill H. and Jim T. did precisely that... they adapted and often bypassed the accepted norm. They didn't just get handed their connections in a lottery... they were cultivated (in Bill's case, his parents helped out a lot).

I read a bio piece on the net about Bill H recently. Can't find the link, wish i'd saved it. But I understand that he refused to go to college / university in thailand where he grew up from his early teens and his parents washed their hands off him for not furthering his education. He went on to live alone and sell advertising and after a few years was running a multi million Baht business before he hit his twenties. He also made some money from racing cars. so according to that article, his parents didn't help him out. He did it by himself.

You probably know more about it than me Heng, but the impression I got was he was a typical self made man. Much respect for Bill.

sorry for going off topic, but I find it interesting.

[Heng]

I read a bio piece on the net about Bill H recently. Can't find the link, wish i'd saved it. But I understand that he refused to go to college / university in thailand where he grew up from his early teens and his parents washed their hands off him for not furthering his education. He went on to live alone and sell advertising and after a few years was running a multi million Baht business before he hit his twenties. He also made some money from racing cars. so according to that article, his parents didn't help him out. He did it by himself.

You probably know more about it than me Heng, but the impression I got was he was a typical self made man. Much respect for Bill.

sorry for going off topic, but I find it interesting.

Bill H's early history has gotten a little more creative over time. Not necessarily "made up" but has shifted its focus from his family life to what he had done personally (allowing everyone to assume it was mostly done by himself... in the typical one mat/one pillow type of story many local Thai-Chinese businessmen like to tell... if you live here long enough, I suppose there is some kind of osmosis going on there... not unlike farangs who start to drive their motorcycles in the opposite direction of the rest of the traffic). He's an ISB alumnus and his dad wasn't just some grunt serving in Bangkok while sending his kid to the best international school in the country. While that doesn't mean you're automatically connected it's not exactly getting off the boat in Bangkok and building your business out of nothing. Apparently their relationship soured at some time, and his father's role was rewritten or at least somewhat cast out of his personal history. But he did grow up with the US embassy functions-Oriental Hotel weddings-and Sathorn Road crowd.

Edited February 19, 2009 by Heng

[Briggsy]

This was a light-hearted, interesting and enjoyable thread until Heng turned it into a race war as he does with pretty much every thread.

Time to knock this one on the head. Mods?

[Heng]

This was a light-hearted, interesting and enjoyable thread until Heng turned it into a race war as he does with pretty much every thread.

Time to knock this one on the head. Mods?

Nothing like a little light hearted race war.

[aussiejosh]

1 2 3 4... i declare a race war.... oh <deleted> im in Thailand...

[mc2]

We have all had different levels of culture shock, and probably harp endlessly to those who will listen and those who will not.

What about the other side of the coin?

An aquantaince related that while living in UK with his Thai wife, that when she first arrived, wished him

to take her and 3 children plus babe in arms to the Supermarket.

He told her that so many on a motorbike was illegal, she rounded on him and said, "You told me this was a free country !"

A female thai student I know encountered a bit of rude culture shock in farang land.

Not long after arriving she was approached at the bus stop by an old, homeless, racisit farang who told her to "GO HOME"

she got angry relplied to the homeless man "NO, YOU GO HOME!"