Have Anyone Experience Nightmare Aftermath?

[Candyflip]

Now I am back in my normal life in Bangkok ,after participating such a scene in kao lak, I have a hard time sleeping at night. Eventhough I know I did help those bodies to go home and I believe that I did the right thing but still...

shameful to say here that I am afriad of ghosts...

Those bad image come back to my head time to time, it start bothering me alittle bit. Does anyone who had helped victim experienced the same thing? How do you deal with it?

[Boo]

Candyflip,

It's natural after everything you have seen to be experiencing stresses in getting your life back to normal and affected sleep is usuallly the way the body tries to resolve these issues.. The human animal wasn't intended to see such horrific things & your mind is still processing everything you have seen & had to do.

Try taking a long warm bath before sleep, drinking warm milk with honey or even taking a mild sleeping tablet & try to let your mind & heart repair itself with uninterupted sleep.

As for the ghosts, I'm sure you would never have to fear anything from the tsunami victims, even in heaven they would know what an angel you were in this difficult time.

My heart goes out to you & all the victims of this disaster

[britmaveric]

The best way to cope with stressful situations and being under diress is to talk about it with other people. I've seen some horrific sights myself when I was a volunteer medic in the Fire Brigade. After gruesome incidents they always sent us to speak with counselours to head off post traumatic stress syndrome. Sleep will come back in time - try and relax.

As for ghosts- me grand always says the dead can't hurt you -so don't fear them.

[Candyflip]

Thank you for all of your suggestions.

Boo- great post, those words are very encouraging. I hope so much that it will be gone away after these few days.

Britmaveric, I have talked to alot of people. Somehow it gets me feel deeper and deeper so I am not sure if talking could help, I feel worse sometimes. Maybe I just wanna forget it. Or maybe I did not talk about it in the right perspective???

Ravisher, first of all I am a girl ka!

Well, I am normally a daydreamer. I picture alot of nice memory when I was kids very often as it helps me get through my days.

To fight back and try to change bad image is sound impossible for me at the moment. Besides I have been ill since i got back home with the fever,I dont feel very strong mentally to fight back with those memo i have, especially smell...

That kind of smell is really unforgettable, I am still horrify to think about it and I had smell it for few days after I left phuket even.

Before I came back i had a therapy at phuket counselling centre. There is a guy name Jason who can do trauma therapy. He did help me with his thoughtfield therapy. It took one layer of my worried /concern away. I could possibly go home without thinking too much.Thank you jason!

But now I have different type of worried, it is hard to describe. This worried makes me not sleep well... Is there any same therapy available in Bangkok? I do need to see one of this specialist, if you could recommend anyone, I would be very much appreciate.

Thank you ka

Edited January 7, 2005 by Candyflip

[britmaveric]

Britmaveric, I have talked to alot of people. Somehow it gets me feel deeper and deeper so I am not sure if talking could help, I feel worse sometimes. Maybe I just wanna forget it. Or maybe I did not talk about it in the right perspective???

Well personally what got me through rough patches was thinking about the good I've done - think of all the people you've helped and build on that.

[bina]

you didnt state what religious beliefs you hold;

but if you are worried about ghosts, perhaps you should go to a wat and talk with an abbot;

or what ever religious figure you can talk with;

sometimes modern therapy works, sometimes pure religious stuff does the job....

you are also suffering from post trauma stress just like the victims; maintaining a stable daily schedule (routine) helps align the body in doing ordinary things after doing so much non ordainary things;

i went thru this after the gulf war, i was a house mother for 37 american kids in israel and had two babies of my own... i was on my own as (ex) husband was in army; and i was dealing 24 hrs a day with heavy responsibility during bombings.... the first year i was fine; the second year, anniversay of the gulf war *scuds*, i had shakes, couldnt sleep, would jump at any sound, nightmares of rescuing children with gas masks, etc.seemd like a nervous breakdown but was actually post trauma stress syndrome, much much much improved after 14 years ...

i found that daily light exercise, routines of waking and sleeping, even taking a multi vitamin to strengthen the body, helped;

accept that your life is permanently changed by what you experienced and you may never react to many trivial things in the same way ;

try writing about some of the experiences in a factual manner (the actions you took to save people etc.) or or record them....this allows you to get a handle on which things bother you the most and helps your brain organize itself after being overloaded.

it seems that when people speak about things out loud, it seemes to release pressure from inside them;

if you managed to save any one who is now living, try to locate and visit them (israeli search and rescue people visit those that they did save, not for ego, but for seeing the good among all the mess)

talk to others who were involved; people who werent involved will find it hard to listen after the first few weeks, (old news) but for those that went thru a tragedy it can stay fresh in the mind for a very very long time

give your self lots of time and dont expect to feel 'normal' very quickly; healing takes time, for each person a different amount:

good luck

[autonomous_unit]

...

Britmaveric, I have talked to alot of people. Somehow it gets me feel deeper and deeper so I am not sure if talking could help, I feel worse sometimes. Maybe I just wanna forget it. Or maybe I did not talk about it in the right perspective???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It would probably be good for you to find a counseler to speak with at least a few times more, given that you felt the first one helped. You are right that it matters what perspective you take when speaking about your experience, and that is what a counseler should be trained to assist.

It is important to think about your experience from the perspective of how it has affected you, so you understand why you might now feel sad or anxious. It is not necessarily useful to dwell on the images and destruction, but rather to understand the magnitude of what you experienced and how your feelings are understandable and normal. After grief, we need to be able to shift back into normal life and understand that those terrible things are behind us. It is a fine (but not impossible) balance between denial and abject depression. With denial, we risk becoming numb or stressed from all the piled on and unresolved grief, while with depression we can get stuck reliving the grief to the exclusion of everyday life.

As others said, your courage and willingness to give aid are something to be proud of. In a very real sense, you are sharing the burdens of the survivors. Just like them, you have to learn how to go back to a full and healthy life.

[gburns57au]

....... Eventhough I know I did help those bodies to go home and I believe that I did the right thing but still...

It sounds a little like you feel that you didnt do enough and that you have doubts about your involvement in the events.

This is a common reaction to these sort of events, our minds are not conditioned to cope with many things and when we are faced with them and after we have dealt with the situation, it is normal to doubt the effectiveness of our involvements. We will always ask ourselves; could I have done more, what if I had done that this way.

The answer is that you did all you possibly could with what skills and capabilities you had at the time.

Another important thing is to realise that you are not alone, A lot of the people that were involved in the events are feeling the same things you are feeling. try and talk with some of these people....because you can help each other.

[george]

THE AFTERMATH: End sights of horror, dept warns

Psychology agency says TV repeats will hinder healing

BANGKOK: -- The Mental Health Department yesterday called on the media to avoid further traumatising victims of the tsunami by displaying images on television of the terrifying waves and scenes of despair, as such images were said to be having an adverse impact on psychological aid work.

“It is like re-slashing a healing wound in the heart any time surviving disaster victims see such images, particularly on the television screen,” Dr Vachira Pengchan, deputy director of the department, told a press conference.

“As time goes by those people will recover as their mental pictures of the disaster naturally fade away,” said Dr Sujarit Suwanacheep, a senior advisor to the Public Health Ministry, “but to be exposed to those unpleasant images again and again hurts them endlessly.”

None of the survivors in Baan Nam Chem village, the worst hit coastal area in Phang Nga, for example, has dared to resettle there, Vachira said.

“They don’t even dare to watch TV these days, but they can be unintentionally exposed to the traumatising scenes on the TV at any moment,” he added.

It is not only those who witnessed the disaster first hand who are affected by seeing the tsunami on television but viewers in general, particularly children, said Dr Tana Nilchaikovit of Ramathibodi Hospital’s department of psychology.

Symptoms include nightmares, stress and depression, he said.

A survivor usually recovers from post-traumatic syndrome symptoms such as nightmares and insomnia one to three months after a disaster, said Dr Taweesin Wisanuyothin, the spokesman of the ministry.

Of course, he said, some cases are more severe and require more time and more specific psychological therapy or even medical treatment.

Dr Vachira said mental relief work over the past week had been insufficient, especially considered in the long term. As a result, he said, mental trauma could manifest in the form of family, social and criminal problems.

To resolve the problems, he said, the ministry together with other mental-health agencies both in and outside the country are readjusting the way they work. The most important change in this regard is turning victims into positive forces within their communities.

“We’ve got to empower them to take care of each other in their communities as we cannot always provide individual care forever or for as long as the problem lasts, which may be many months, a year or longer.”

--The Nation 2005-01-08

[francois]

hi'

The best way to cope with stressful situations and being under diress is to talk about it with other people. I've seen some horrific sights myself when I was a volunteer medic in the Fire Brigade. After gruesome incidents they always sent us to speak with counselours to head off post traumatic stress syndrome. Sleep will come back in time - try and relax.

I was watching news when I suddendly thought about the rescuers's condition ...

I saw and heard that a lot of "psy" work was on for survivors and for those who suffered in anyway from this disaster, but no words about rescue-teams, this made me worry about them, like I wrote in a pm " no one can face so many deaths like taking a walk".

britmaveric is more than right, as I worked in the same kind of team, the de-briefing time was almost as important as the rescue by itself ... for the members of the team, a deep need to talk, to express what's inside, to get it out, no friendly talking, but talking with a pro, someone who knows all about, someone who has the right words at the right time, just for you.(most of the time she/he's a doctor)

I have seen teams from "french-doctors" coming back from an earthquake ...

they all had 2weeks off and a full support for this time, and they all needed it.

most of the ngo don't send anyone more than 3months due to the situations, some contracts are a lot shorter very often.

I guess that even if we have the ability to do such a job we remain with our weakness,

and it's a good thing, we stay human for the good of it

thousands of people must have endless thanks for what rescuers did ...

you need to convince yourself that you did your best, but also surely need to see someone to convince you of all the good you did and all the rest you need to take and for sure all the care you need to take for yourself now

francois

ps; this thread started following pm's with darknight and candyflip as I worried that she might feel real low and lost ... just a human concern

just because I used to see that no one's left behind in any rescue-team ...

[The_Moog]

Drink a glass of milk before you go to bed.

Try to steer clear of barbiturates/phenobarbitol etc.

Get plenty of exercise.

Go on a relaxing holiday somewhere and put your feet up.

Go shopping and treat yourself to something nice. ('Shopping therapy')

Rent some heart-warming DVD's - Big Fish, Love Actually, Shrek 2, (not 'Jaws' or 'Day After Tomorrow')

[francois]

hi'

don't get down too hard on George ...

some truth need to be said ...

is it the place to report the problems that people, survivors or rescuers could meet, I think so!

it has been opened in this purpose ... listening and trying to help with gentle words, news like this are a bit scary but need to be known.

situation is not only serious because of the disaster itself, but also for all those who have been there, survivors as well as rescuers.

I'm just surprised that only survivors are mentionned:o

what "psy"said is surely valid wherever the situation is, Thai's may be stronger facing accident of life, but this is far too much for anyone, thinking about survivors, what do you think someone who lost everything, even the possibility to restart again would sometime think after a couple of nights of dispair ...

Asian people are a bit more fatalistic than we are, it doesn't mean that they can all resist to such a disaster.

the pronostic might be too high though, considering the strength of Thai people, but those who give the alert are pro of this kind of situation even if they never seen such disaster like this one.

francois

ps; everyone is under shock ... let's keep it cool, can we?

[onethailand]

Candyflip -

First of all, I must commend you for your efforts - it takes a brave soul with a big heart to do and do what you did.

The best way in my opinion (and I am not a psychologist, so take my words with a grain of salt) to solve the situation is:

Try to stick to your daily routine. If you have too many periods where you don't have much to do, go exercise - whether running in parks or a fitness center - set your mind on a goal (such as 5 kilometres) and achieve it - and then try something else and set yourself a goal.

The exercise may help you take your mind off of things - but it will surely help you sleep better. I fly a lot and it completely destroys my body clock - so I learned to wear myself out before the flight (no sleep) so that the instant I sit down on the plane, I'm out cold. And when I get back, I have to exercise in order to make my body tired - I can't even begin to focus on work the first couple of days.

In any case, you simply need to wear yourself out - hopefully that will happen soon and you will get the rest you need.

Bina and The Moog have also referred to exercise - so this might reinforce those thoughts.

Someone already mentioned warm milk before bed - that seems to help me too.

I forgot to mention music - I recently rediscovered radio when I bought my new cell phone, which has an FM tuner built in (Sony Ericsson K700i). And it turns out that 107 FM is playing a superb selection of music (98% of which I recognize) - which takes me back to my college days. I didn't realize how much I missed good classic mellow music until now.

There are also psychologists available at many of the better hospitals - you may want to check in with them to see how they can help.

Lastly, you must come to terms with the fact that you did all you can to help - and there is nothing more that you could have done, and you made a great sacrifice which many people will be grateful for.

Good luck in all you do.

Edited January 8, 2005 by onethailand

[bina]

exercise is reccommended for any one suffering from any kind of mental strain in any form;

it helps the body release sereton in the brain which causes the body and brain to calm down (same thing that happens to a nursing mother or nursing animal) ;

this site had a good explanation about why exercise helps:

http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/1998/10Oct/artal.htm

"...However as more studies are being performed on exercise and depression, scientists are hypothesizing that exercise may raise serotonin levels enough so as to help those suffering from depression, an alternative which is inexpensive as well as beneficial for the entire body...."

whatever works....

[onethailand]

whoo... nice one, Bina!

[The_Moog]

woops....ahem...yes.

That's egg on my face.

(Not for the first time - and not for the last too probably.)

[Candyflip]

You guys are so great you know!

Now I got plenty good advices from everybody. First of all , thank you to francois for his aftermath concern that how I started this thread.

Bina:

give your self lots of time and dont expect to feel 'normal' very quickly; healing takes time, for each person a different amount:

Thats very good one to not expect to feel normal very quickly. I aim to feel alright insight and outsight you know. I am sure that I wont take shortcut, just going out drinking but feel despair inside. I wanna be healed in my soul even it may take long time to get back to normal state again. I think its worth it and better in long term.

Excecise-- I wish I could do it as many of you suggested but the thing is my angle is twisted!! I cannot even walk probably. I have to go to massage every 2 days for that. So it wont be excecise for a little while.

Autonomous unit -- Could you explain more about depression? Is this has to do with depression or any relation related? I have been to depression therapy for 4 months in Amsterdam last yeat but that was more or less about the weather change. Surely I do have different view of life now.

Gburns57au -- Yeah sometimes I think about that I could have done better or I could have stayed longer but you were right I should think that that was the best thing I could do fo the moment. I should have no regret.

Onethailand -- Now i tried to get back to daily routine. I am a freelancer so mostly I work independently and alone. It is a bit hard to not be socializing with people.

Ravisher and Themoog-- Thank for kicking that horrible post from George.

Cheers..

Edited January 8, 2005 by Candyflip

[onethailand]

Excecise-- I wish I could do it as many of you suggested but the thing is my angle is twisted!! I cannot even walk probably. I have to go to massage every 2 days for that. So it wont be excecise for a little while.

Ouch - sorry to hear that. I have permanently stiff muscles so I go for massage 2-3x per week, time allowing.

Sit-ups are a good option (hate 'em myself even though I should be doing them). The exercise doesn't necessarily have to involve your legs...

Now i tried to get back to daily routine. I am a freelancer so mostly I work independently and alone. It is a bit hard to not be socialiaing with people.

Freelancer, as in consulting or journalism?

I generally work alone as well - but actually I need to start hiring staff soon because I am bogged down. I am not much of a socializer myself, so I find plenty of other things to do. A movie, perhaps, shopping, whatever you enjoy doing. I work night hours (US hours) so during the day I need to get out of the house just to relax, do a bit of work at net cafes, grocery shopping, etc. And of course the 2-3x massage for two hours.

[autonomous_unit]

...

Autonomous unit -- Could you explain more about depression?  Is this has to do with depression or any relation related? I have been to depression therapy for 4 months in Amsterdam last yeat but that was more or less about the weather change. Surely I do have different view of life now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First, I'm no expert, so don't hesitate to see a professional if you are not feeling better from all this forum talk! My views on this come from personal experience, witnessing loved ones' experiences, and a general layman's interest in psychology and mental development. I am sure there is much more to know than I ever will...

I mentioned depression because it seems to be a common after-effect of traumatic experiences and grief. As I understand it, depression is not an abnormal part of grief either, as long as it subsides in a reasonable amount of time. The problem is that some people can get stuck there. Many symptoms of post-traumatic stress are also symptoms of depression in general, such as retreating from social activities, generalized anxiety, feeling tired or listless, questioning your own worth or contributions, etc. These kinds of things are no fun at all if left unresolved.

For many people following stress or trauma from an event like loss of loved ones, horrific violence, or the post-disaster aid you did, counseling and discussion can often be enough to work through the memories and feelings. A person who has depressive tendencies may suffer more profoundly from such events and may need more specialized help in order to recover. Hopefully this analogy won't bother anyone, but it is sort of like the effects of a night of drinking on a healthy person or an alcoholic: the normal person might be hungover and steer clear of the booze for a while, but the alcoholic (i.e. depressive person in the analogy) might repeat the drinking (depressive behaviors) to cope with the discomfort. So there is a risk of self-sustaining problems.

If I understood your comment, you suffered from seasonal depression while in Amsterdam (not at all a surprising result if you grew up in the tropics and then had a European winter). From what I know of that, it is much like the depression from traumatic events in that there is a clear cause: the physical and psychological effects of reduced sunlight. Being solar powered myself, I can sympathize with this in an odd way. I actually miss the mild seasonal mood variations I experienced growing up in temperate Northern California, where the summers were blazingly hot and sunny and the winters mild (cold by Thai standards) with nice long shadows.

Of course, grief and stress may not lead to depression at all for some people. For them, anger or specific anxiety or phobias are the effects that must be dealt with, so that aggression or panic do not become unwelcome parts of their lives. I only focus on depression because you asked... The important trick to all these things is to find balance in your reactions and in your life following the traumatic stress. There are many possible healthy balances, but there are also many negative or pathological responses one can make. I believe in the mantra of "moderation in all things"...

[Candyflip]

George, I do appreciated and accept your apologies. Dont worry about it. I know how overwork load you have. Be well and take a good care of yourself.

Autonomous unit -- Thank you for your explaination of depression. Especially this sentence

but it is sort of like the effects of a night of drinking on a healthy person or an alcoholic: the normal person might be hungover and steer clear of the booze for a while, but the alcoholic (i.e. depressive person in the analogy) might repeat the drinking (depressive behaviors) to cope with the discomfort. So there is a risk of self-sustaining problems.

That lead me to many answer that I doubted.

Ravisher, your words was very touchy you know... Thank you and I will send you a PM.

I am so overwhelm by all suggestion and how nice to be treated here. I will be recover soon

Let me tell you a little bit more what I am experiencing now.

Last night I went to have dinner with my Dutch journalist friend who just came back to Phuket. We had a very lovely Thai meal. After that we went to BED SUPPerclub. I wish I had followed my guts. I was not in the mood of clubbing but I did go because my friend mentioned once he wanted to see it. It was too much for both of us, especially for hi who just got back from phuket. Bad choice we made but we have learnt a good reason.

I came back home around 1.30 pm, could not sleep until Darknight has kicked my asssssss on MSN to go to bed, that was 4 AM.

This morning I woke up at 9, not so bad. Beautiful day today, maybe i go to see movie on my own later.

I missed 2 parties in 2 days, one was TV member good by party and another one was my best friend graduation party. I did not feel like it. I hope to get better soon before all my mate sick of inviting me

Cheers to all

by the way , I am consulting freelance , and I love my job.

Edited January 9, 2005 by Candyflip

[Darknight]

/split georges news article into a new topic in the tsunami comments forum

[bina]

If you were prone to SAD (sun related depression) then you obviously be more prone to other things of this sort;

stay away from tv news, loud noisy parties, etc.

unfortunately, we in israel are all very familiar with these syndromes; and we also are an incredibly hysterical people too.... we have seminars for children and adults on dealing with post traumatic stress syndromes since (at least where i live) we do have the terrorist attacks.... so these ideas are from a psychologist that is an expert in post traumatic stress syndromes for the army, he says, apart from getting professional help and possible medications to try this:

if you can:

if you can get away to a farm for a while: watching cows or buffalos grazing and chewing their cuds is very relaxing (no joke!!, i get sent soldiers from army that suffer from 'shell shock and post trauma etc to work at my petting zoo) and specifically for working with animals. Buffalo and cows are very slow, patient and dont expect any thing from you emotionally, so not very draining on the soul. people watching this also calm down (it works also with traumitized children, i've seen it as i work with all kinds of people at my petting zoo)...

also once you can move some, plain basic physical work like gardening etc, gives a good feeling, instant gratification (beginning middle and end)and the physical aspect purposeful motion also relaxes.

tried to get hold of this very good phsychologist (Dr. Shabbtai) (he is world reknown in this field and has worked with two people i know of from search and rescue teams here in israel) but was unable to, in order to get numbers of colleages in thailand ; will try again if you want , maybe you dont need? dont know if he has internat'l numbers ....

bina

[Donna USA Maryland]

Now I am back in my normal life in Bangkok ,after participating such a scene in kao lak, I have a hard time sleeping at night. Eventhough I know I did help those bodies to go home and I believe that I did the right thing but still...

shameful to say here that I am afriad of ghosts...

Those bad image come back to my head time to time, it start bothering me alittle bit. Does anyone who had helped victim experienced the same thing? How do you deal with it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Candflip, your post was heart touching thank you for a reality check..

As for the sleeping problem, I had a Sleep Doctor tell me to write your fear down before you go to sleep and end it in a way you are peaceful with..become friends with the ghost that is bothing you. This is just a thought but it did come from a professional Doctor.

Gentle Hugs,

Donna

[NedKelly]

Just remember that there are poeple who lost everything in this event.

[Candyflip]

Just remember that there are poeple who lost everything in this event.

What does that have to do with my question about aftermath trauma?

[NedKelly]

Think about it !

[francois]

hi'

Think about it !

ned, that what she does and that's why she sleep so bad!

what do you think about asking a question like this to candyflip?

did you read her reports and the following posts?

your answer ..surprised me

francois

[britmaveric]

hi'

Think about it !

ned, that what she does and that's why she sleep so bad!

what do you think about asking a question like this to candyflip?

did you read her reports and the following posts?

your answer ..surprised me

francois

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Francois- Ned's just being himself- lil insensitive. I think the point he is making is that one could be far worse off than have problems with sleeping. Just ignore him.

[francois]

yop right landing like a stone on a cake

mai pen rai ...

francois

ps; undestand the point he was on, but not here .. thanks

[Boo]

I agree francios, yes a lot of people have suffered far more but the suffering of the rescue people shouldn't be ignored just becuase they didn't die or lose a house, they are doing/did a difficult job & Neds comments seem pointless to me.