Poll: How do you rate PM Thaksin?

[george]

How do you personally rate Thaksin Shinawatra as Prime Minister? 5 Star is the highest score, 1 Star is the lowest.

[capital]

I view him as horribly racist, fuelling hatred against foreign expats! Whether it's a trip to a shopping center or simply sit in business meetings, I do sense a much stronger "who the <deleted> are you farang anyway" attitude from the Thais. He surely, just like that French dipshit Le Pen, is VERY good at it! Thailand is no longer what it once was "a farang friendly country"! TiT I suppose!

[Galong]

It seems that his platform is based on racism.  Why call it Thai Rak Thai unless you're trying to stir a fire?  He sure seems affraid of a level playing field.  

I hope George W sees through his smile.  I would like to see Thais living in the US scrutinized more.  Let's see their bank accounts and let's threaten to break up their families... oh no, that's no PC.  

[Dexlowe]

You must be joking, George. By raising this topic, you've exposed the whole board to being closed down. At least for 30 days. Until Apec is over.

[elfe]

TiT - not only peasure-country, Alice's Wonderland is a fairy tale.  we live in one world. want to stay here? obey the rules.

TiT and not Farang-lives -in-Thailand country. appreciate and you will be appreciated.

life's easier than it seems, chai yen pls

cool, caring & (still) critical

elfe

[KenUdon]

elfe. It is not a question of playing by the rules, because the goalposts for those rules are being drastically changed to make what should be a pleasant experience into a nightmare of fear, uncertainty and stress, of losing everything one has invested in here, both financially - houses etc, and emotionally - wives, children families etc. Yes, by hook or crook, we will probably manage to stay here through this latest round of paranoia type regulations, but at what cost, and to what end? Just to wait for the next despotic ranting from an extreme anti-farang Govt. to think up yet more ways to screw the farang.

[francois]

hello'

it seems  to me a little "on the edge" to start a topic like this one, but anyway, let's follow the freespeech way.

we "most of us expats don't like this so called prime minister,

for many reason, as Chuan Leekpai seemed to eased things for us, taksin is doing exactly reverse, new immigration laws, new way of life that he really want to setup in his country, "he is going to do it", no matter what the "poor" 60% of Thai people

that are not aware of politics , think about in every day's life.

already, closing bars and entertainment places at 2am, was a real stupid thing to do, like it has been said "even in Singapore, they close at 4/5am" ...

our neigbours who sell food outside in the evening, now start at 4pm and finish at 1am, loosing at least 4 hours of good work, and the good income of yesterday are gone!

they want to clean up Thailand, do they think about reality, what about all these people who going to stay without any possibility to work as they used to do before?

new laws, new regulations, new social order ... it stinks!

by the way, me and my family are beginning to think about to go back to europe, if over there things are far to be alright

at least, we know how to deal with the laws, and for my wife visa and integration, it is going to easier than it is for me here

and now, this was not true not more than 3 years ago.

we might be living our last months here, if this new immigration regulations goes on, I'll have to think to bring my family in europe, if at that time, immigration in europe is not too tight ...

yes, we are living a bad time of stress and fear, just loosing everything that made our life happy here...

if taksin think that thailand can do without us and without all these tourist who are coming for a large part of them for fun,

sea sex and sun ... Thailand is going to pay dearly this so called "new social order" and as I said, be prepared for a big social disorder, we are going to try to keep on, but if things are getting worse, we won't stay in a "le pen's style" world ...

I hope that a lot of us can still afford to stay here, but in what kind of Thailand are we going to live in?

accepting rules, some why not, but some others, actually most of them are really unbearable for any of us, don't you think?

all the best

francois

may be we should not say things like this, but this forum is a freespeech place like any forum, so let's talk, and anyway it's only talks ...

[Moodaeng2]

Funny to see how self-centered  and biased the opinions are. I fully agree with Elfe: you really forget this not Farang(Thai)land.

And you'd better look in your own backyards first about the "rights of foreigners". No countries allow foreigners to stay on long-terms only because of the lifestyle (which for many here is reduced to cheap prostitution).

If you want to stay you need a good reason to do so. This is not Disneyland where you pay the ticket so you can enjoy the ride. This is a country, and it is not yours.

How arrogant to say "I give money to this poor country so it should welcome me as a king". Many forget the difference between holidays and residency. Try to get a long-term residency permit in the US. You will need much more than saying you love burgers.

"I would like to see Thais living in the US scrutinized more.  Let's see their bank accounts and let's threaten to break up their families"

Is this a JOKE ? Most Thais cannot even get a 30days paying tourist visa to the US !!! Do you know what evidence of wealth you have to show to get a TOURIST visa ?

I hardly mention the arab population harassed because every arab must be a terrorist or realtive of a terrorist (no, this not racism!).

The Thai immigration was far too lenient, now it is only catching up with the other countries' standards. Give it a break.

There is also much to say about the "who the <deleted> are you farang anyway" attitude. This thread is a good example of it.

I am a foreigner visiting your country but you should welcome me as your master, you should speak English with me because I am too lazy to learn Thai, I have more money than you so you should treat me better, and most importantly : all Thai politics must be centered on the interests of the farangs !

[ninjamuzo]

Taksin is the most dangerous Prime Minister that Thailand has had to date. He has the normal attributes of a 'bad' Thai PM like money, education and the Chinese backing but this one is smarter.

The prediction around town is that he will be the next Marcos or Suharto, PM for life sucking the country dry.

His current strategy of Bread and Circuses drawn from roman times has fulfilled its purpose and bamboozled the majority of the population. He has moved away from the standard corruption methods to policy corruption. The result has been gains in his own business interests and a general drop in the rest. He is slowly buying up Cambodia and making moves into Laos.

He is an obvious Xenophobe perhaps as a result of his son’s drug bust in NZ that he could not control. The policies to date on visas, resident permits, and general fees demonstrates that very well.

HRM the King gave his opinion of the PM in his last speech and it was far from flattering.

There have been no real improvements in the Thai business situation and the apparent gains of the Baht have been from a weaker US$ not from anything Thailand has done.  

The ‘good’ news is that the wonderland situation in Thailand is coming to an end. The 30 Baht health scheme for example is draining money from the national coffers. Little things like canceling the needed Teacher’s pay raise to fund the make Bangkok beautiful for APEC push is just one indication of him doing the opposite of what he preaches.

When some of these things become self evident then we will see the real Taksin emerge from behind the mask.

[ninjamuzo]

A Response to Moodaeng2's Post.

It is obvious that you have no idea about the policies in your own country towards foreigners, residency or citizenship.

Answer a simple question. Assuming that you have the visa to do so can you go to say the US or Australia, walk up to a realtor and buy a house or land after being there for a day? Can a foreigner do that unless they are a national?

Does a resident permit or green card mean you can work? In Thailand does the resident permit come with a work permit? Note that to even apply for a Resident permit requires three years on a non-immigrant visa and nearly a year (if you are incredibly lucky) before it is even granted, minimum.

Would you have to report to Immigration every three months and the police station every six months or year in say Australia of the US after you have your card/permit?

Do you have free access to legal representation there if you challenge the status quo versus being summarily ejected from Thailand.

Your advice about looking in your own backyard is pertinent, take it and do a real comparison. You will never complain about the approaches of Australia and the US after that.

Then ask yourself why the policies in some countries are the way they are. Did you know that Thais have one of the worst illegal stay statistics in the US? Close to one in four do not come back when they are supposed to. These policies are not applied in some arbitrary way they are based on some historical or observable fact. It is the Thais themselves that have imposed these conditions on themselves.

[TRIPxCORE]

Thaksin is very good at running his mouth and drumming up support for his many schemes.  There is no problem being an advocate of your own people and trying to advance their lives and their country.  Maybe some of the domestic policies he is supporting are good ones and will help the country but here is the most important point.

    If all of the farang in LOS were causing a huge problem in the past until now, I could understand trying to change around some laws to allow more stringent requirements for them.  But really, has anyone heard of a large number of major problems in the country caused by farang?  I have not.  The way I look at it, dont try to fix what isnt broken.  Farang policies up until now have been adequete.  Dont change them.

[plachon]

moodaeng is obviously a pseudonym for another regular poster on this forum, who for some obscure reason, wishes not to associate himself or herself, with their former identity. I have a shrewd idea who, but will keep it to myself.

Yes and no, MD2, you've got it right and wrong about Thailand and expats reasons for wanting to stay/live here. You can't generalise or typify - there as diverse as any multi-national population would be. But, I can assure you, the incumbent PM is as different a character as has ever lorded it over this country, as chalk is from cheese, and he's picking on those least able to defend themselves in his vision of "development". this includes low-income foreigners, but also includes the majority poor of Thailand, who have been fooled into thinking he's supporting their interests (30 baht scheme, debt holiday for farmers, 1 million baht per village project, etc), when he is actually condemning them to perpetual poverty. The Assembly of the Poor, (a small minority of Thailand's disenfranchised), have seen clearly through Toxin's empty words and promises and now find he's a hungry wolf in sheep's clothing. It will take a bit longer for the majority to find out the same ultimate truth, and then...........who knows what will happen?

[ChiangMaiThai]

I think its a great idea to start this thread. If the board is shut down then we will know once and for all that Thaksin is more a dictator than an elected leader.

[Moodaeng2]

To Plachon,

I posted some messages under another ID which was first setup and used by my wife. She still wishes to use it but is not interestd in politics. So for more heated and "snakepit" discussions I am on my own with this ID. Nothing secret about it!  

My post was not a general approval of Taksin's policy but a reaction to those who think they have a say in Thailand's internal immigration affairs. It seem normal to me that a government wants to control who is staying on the territory and why.

What I call self-centered is that most people see this as a measure against Western expats and do not see the bigger picture of illegal immigration in Thailand.

There are problems and trouble makers and like everywhere you need minimum of control. Yes most of the problems are not from US citizens, but you cannot issue a double standards policy. All you need is to be legal and give a valid reason for your stay in Thailand. Is this unfair and racist ?

I never hear people complaining about how Thais are racists against Indians, Burmese or Africans, which is sadly often the case. But when there is a slight brush up of immigration laws asking people to set their books clean, suddenly it is an outrage. Seems a bit exagerrated.

[Axel]

Interesting poll although it is a bit against my own rule, never to get involved in politics of the country where I live. As a "neutral observer" I'd say "give him a chance". Well, a few years ago he nearly managed to clean up the Bangkok-traffic as promised. Only problem, suddenly and unexpected the rainy-season set in. One thing for sure, Thailand needs a strong man, b4 there was Chuan Lek Pai, a bit weak, he was the guy who complained about ads in English language at the airport, considering that Thai is (I agree) a beautiful language but forgot the ads where targeted at arriving foreigners. Chavalit, Barn-Harn (the small one, who stayed a bit longer in office to shake hands with all world-leaders)?? All said, give Taksin a chance, he is elected by the people. We cannot say this about other world-leaders (should I have put this in singular?)

[francois]

hi'

might be that saying that this not our politics, it's Thai's one, and we have to accept things changing, as we are only guests,

is not that wrong, waht's wrong is to say let's accept everything wothout any reaction at all, for the same reasons.

of course we have to accept things the way they are, we can't do anything for or against, we don't belong here ... in a way

but we live here, and for most of us, it had been a choice,

some have family and children, and now they are saying to us,

please you have to make all this regular by the law, and if you do not meet requirements, you'll have to consider leaving ...

thanks, we are not pretending to naything else than living here

in peace with our family, and they say to us go away ...

how should we consider this?

in europe, most of countries have strick immigration laws, but

still, it is possible for a foreigner to live and to build his life out there, no harrassment or headache abour regulations,

and it is even possible to build a house for your living ...

your car is obviously on your name as all your papers ...

and it is never about money, rather more about descent life!

might be that it's time to reconsider our view on Thailand ...

all the best

[Rinrada]

As usual on this sort of subject I tend to try and get K.wifes opinion although politics is one area that most everyday Thais dont appear to want to become directly involved in.(Certainly in UK)

Her old man was a shool mate of the previous P.M.Cheun(democrat-labour party) and she always admits that when meeting him he came over as a nice guy,very honest,very considerate but NOT Strong enough to run the joint and thats why generally the feedback from the ordinary Thai punter is that Taxin is doing a good job.

He might be getting up the noses of a few old diehard FFF sex tourists but so what...he is the Boss (and Elected at that-OK no jokes)

I suppose it is all very easy for us Non Thai Nationals(dont like word farang-felang-farachi,sound like public schoolboy pranks) to spout off about the negative aspects of LOS but quite honestly the joe public P.B.Thais are proud of their country and why should they not be -barnacles,worts and all.

We  know that he will never get rid of all the corruption,the ya-ba dipsticks,the whorehouse under age knocking shops,the endemic poverty of Issan,the smelly toilets or the cracks in the roads but he gives a bloody good impression that hes trying.

As a Thai she approves of her Prime Minister and thats ALL that matters.She also likes Tony Blair.....

   :cool:

[buasaard]

n peace with our family, and they say to us go away ...

Excuse me Francois, I didn't understand from the message who told you to go away? Because, it doesn't seem to me that there's going to be a "Boxer uprising" in Thailand. I spend 5 months a year in Thailand, and I am always properly treated.

On the contrary, my wife in Europe (I'm italian) is not always properly treated. In public offices, she's always looked down. She has italian citizenship, but everybody assumes that she is foreigner (she can't change her face fortunately) and ask with bad manners the residence permit.

A friend of her were refused ID card, because they wanted the residence permit (also her friend has italian citizenship), and no matter she insisted, they didn't believe her.

When my wife sits on a bus, she's always required to leave the seat for older people. Ok this is normal, but not when there are on the same bus younger people than her(she is over 40).And this happen often.

One time, awaiting the bus she was approached by a woman who spat on the pavement in front of her, telling her to "go back home".

Did you say about regulations? Foreigners living in Italy have now a residence permit connected with the job, if they lose their job they have to leave the country.In addition , when they require the extension (every two years now but until two-three years ago every year)they cannot leave Italy for at least 6 months because this is the time needed to deliver the new permit.

To stay in Italy every foreigner needs a place where to stay and and an income. Does any country allow foreigner to stay without an income and a place where to stay?It doesn't seem to me that Thailand asks more.

Thais have not the right to a 30 days "tourist visa", so someone said Thailand wants only high income foreigners. Why, does european countries allow "low income foreigners" to stay?

How many "farangs" are treated like this in Thailand?

With regards with the topic I should say I agree 100pct with Axel, let's give him a try, though I would have preferred to see a stronger Chuan in power.

By the way plachon, the 30 bath scheme was introduced by Chuan, and everybody must thank him for this.

[plachon]

Unfortunately, Buasaard, you're way off with this one. The 30 baht scheme was one of Toxin's election promises if he got in. He did and he introduced hencewith. The old scheme was a 500 baht family "health card", that gave everyone on that low income person's house registration the right to "free" medical treatment at their local hospital. So Toxin, salesman that he is, tears that one up and says now "raksa took rok, 30 baht". Great, only trouble is it's cost a fortune to implement, has taken money out of the public health system and plonked it into the private one (as some private hospitals also participate) and the service has got worse, not better. however, the best test is the fact that doctor's themselves don't like it - to bureaucratic and has made work more dificult for them, which is reflected in the fact that doctors are leaving the public system in droves. (reported recently in the press) TResult is, people go to the private system more, costing them more money than before. i.e. poor get screwed, as I said in my posting. This is not speculation, I'm seeing it in practice with my wife's family and other aquaintances. You're OK, as I'm sure you use the private health system, which to you as a foreigner seems cheap. To the poor majority of thailand, it's crippling, sometiimes literally. Please, stick to talking about Italy and things you have some knowledge of.

Rinrada, my Khun Wifey, is also pretty apolitical, but saw through Toxin long ago and likens him to some of the less savoury dictators of the past. So do many well-known Thai social critics, like Thirayuth Boonmi who headed the students movment in 1973, so it's not only the FFF sex tourists who're worried.

[buasaard]

I checked and this time I was wrong on the 30 bath scheme, it was proposed by Taksin.

This does not mean that I change my view on the 30 bath scheme. The fact that Taksin is a populist is out of doubt, all politicians are. All politicians promise what they think will get vote to them. And most of them when elected do not mantain what they promised.

The fact that doctors do not like is not a guarantee, infact in my opinion (I might be wrong), most of them would prefer a 100pct private health system to earn more money.

Unfortunately on this matter I have some knowledge, because my brother-in-law had renal tubercolosis followed by renal failure. Phuket public hospital (I'm sorry I can't afford to pay for him a private hospital), gave him all the medicines he needed, made ultrasounds, TC scan and a surgery. The hospital was not comfortable of course but they gave him proper medical care.

With regards to my previous message, I wrote a lot of Italy because I just wanted to show that farangs are not treated worse than how thais are treated abroad.

Finally , I don't understand why you are so hard with me. It doesn't seem to me, I offended or was hard to someone.

If I did, I apologize it was not my intention, maybe my english is not so good to express my intentions correctly.

[plachon]

The fact that doctors do not like is not a guarantee, infact in my opinion (I might be wrong), most of them would prefer a 100pct private health system to earn more money.

With regards to my previous message, I wrote a lot of Italy because I just wanted to show that farangs are not treated worse than how thais are treated abroad.

Finally , I don't understand why you are so hard with me. It doesn't seem to me, I offended or was hard to someone.

If I did, I apologize it was not my intention, maybe my english is not so good to express my intentions correctly.

I'm not being "hard" with you, I'm just saying check your facts before spouting off. Toxin is the architect of nearly all the new plans coming thru' these past 2 years, which is 'cos he's in a position of almost absolute power - even your Berlusconi would be jealous of hjis alter-ego! But back to the health care system - of course, doctors would prefera 100 % private one, if their only motivation is to make money. but you seem to be suggesting that a health care sytem is set up only for the benefit of the medical profession, not the general public! As the majority of the general public in Thailand are not well off and can't afford a private health care system, then for every doctor that leaves the public system it is a loss to the poor majority, who have to put up with long queues and indifferent service and treatment as it is. There are some good state hospitals in Thailand, but for the majority up-country Thais, they never get to see them. Lot's die first - heard a heart-breaking story from one ordinary poor Thai a few days ago, who's 37 year old wife couldn't get treatment in the state hospital after her appendix burst and ended up dying in a private hospital after receiving next to no treatment. She spent one night there and for this, her husband was charged 8,000 baht. He was too grief stricken to argue, even though it was a rip-off.

And for the record, my wife spent 2 years in Britain, where she never experienced any overt racism, was able to work without problems, was given residency within months, never had to leave the country on a visa run and enjoyed full benefits under the NHS. I could go on, but perhaps you start to get the picture.

[Butterfly]

I don't like his "morale" crusade agenda. Completely pointless.

I don't like his "fake" attitude toward the public. Patronizing the poors as a public service tool to gain more power.

I don't like the way he wants to turn Thailand into a "modern" society, closer to western culture than Asian

I understand he wants less farangs and wants the Thais to control more the economy. Not a bad thing. Why ? if most businesses were owned by farangs, prices would be a lot higher (because those expats living expenses are quite high you know, somebody have to pay for it) and the Thais would even be poorer.

I do support him in his battle to limit "foreigner" intervention in the "real" economy (not financial economy) because the situation would be far worse for the Thais. However I do believe that his "true" intentions are actually to use "western" style techniques of management while keeping the control in the hands of the Thais. The worst situation as you get both "evils" for the price of one.

Expect prices to go up sharply for the next 2 or 3 years. No more Khao Pat Khai at 50 bath

[Brian Allen]

<< can you go to say the US or Australia, walk up to a realtor and buy a house or land after being there for a day? Can a foreigner do that ... >>

Yes.

<<  Does a resident permit or green card mean you can work? >>

Yes.

<< Would you have to report to Immigration every three months and the police station every six months or year in say Australia of the US after you have your card/permit? >>

No.

 << Do you have free access to legal representation there if you challenge the status quo ... >>

Yes.

<< You will never complain about the approaches of Australia and the US after that. >>

Absolutely.

People would be criminally charged with very serious offences in both those those countries and would be liable to be very heavily fined and/or imprisoned if any EVER behaved toward others in the extremely negative and bigotted ways many Asians, as a matter of course, behave -- and take for granted.

<< Thais have one of the worst illegal stay statistics in the US? Close to one in four do not come back when they are supposed to. >>

Why pick on my America? Their overstay record is pretty darned grubby every place they go. As are the evil acts they are prepared to perpetrate on one another -- and especially on smuggled and enslaved young women -- in order to "support themselves."  

Best ones -- Brian

[Edward B]

plachon,

So how long have you been married to Rinrada?

Amazing how one little comma can change the meaning of a whole sentence!

As for this thread, our views are all a bit in vain as we are but a minority group in a foreign country. Running a country is all about making decision for the good of the people - a balancing act, trying to make life better for the majority (cynics can insert the word rich in here), while at the same time knowing that the minority (again insert 'poor' here) will be inconvenienced. Non-nationals (like those in this thread) will always be the minority in this country and therefore will think most, if not all decisions made by Taksin are bad/ill-conceived. The topic was always going to go this way - biased views from the minority.

[Brian Allen]

<< "Running a country .... " >>

.... A positive, is best done by Adam Smith's Invisible Hand.

But should never be confused with "running" a gummint, a completely different proposition and one diametrically opposed to and at odds with any country's best interests and/or successful "running."  

Except for a very short period of the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries in the United States of America [before the politicians, lawyers, judges and bureaucrats became involved and began to corrupt the Principle of Individual Liberty upon which that greatest-ever of nations is founded -- and stands] there never has been and probably never will again be a government anywhere on Earth that ran second in any country's competition to find the most efficacious impediment to its people's progress and/or to the progress of its people's state and/or nation!

What is a government but an organized criminal gang having  ownership and control of the courts?  

Best ones -- Brian

[buasaard]

but you seem to be suggesting that a health care sytem is set up only for the benefit of the medical profession, not the general public!

On the contrary, I suggest that it should be set up for the benefit of the general public, and I don't see how the 30 bath scheme helps the private system. Doctors leave the public system for the private? They would anyway.

but perhaps you start to get the picture.

Oh, thanks to share your enlightment with me...

[parryhandy]

I understand he wants less farangs and wants the Thais to control more the economy. Not a bad thing. Why ? if most businesses were owned by farangs, prices would be a lot higher (because those expats living expenses are quite high you know, somebody have to pay for it) and the Thais would even be poorer.

wrong im afraid. answer this question and you will have my reason.

why does a small can of chang cost  20 baht ? the same if not more expensive than the equivalent beer in some western countries.bear in mind tax is low as is production and running costs to make it.

[plachon]

n peace with our family, and they say to us go away ...

On the contrary, my wife in Europe (I'm italian) is not always properly treated. In public offices, she's always looked down. She has italian citizenship, but everybody assumes that she is foreigner (she can't change her face fortunately) and ask with bad manners the residence permit.

A friend of her were refused ID card, because they wanted the residence permit (also her friend has italian citizenship), and no matter she insisted, they didn't believe her.

When my wife sits on a bus, she's always required to leave the seat for older people. Ok this is normal, but not when there are on the same bus younger people than her(she is over 40).And this happen often.

One time, awaiting the bus she was approached by a woman who spat on the pavement in front of her, telling her to "go back home".

Did you say about regulations? Foreigners living in Italy have now a residence permit connected with the job, if they lose their job they have to leave the country.In addition , when they require the extension (every two years now but until two-three years ago every year)they cannot leave Italy for at least 6 months because this is the time needed to deliver the new permit.

To stay in Italy every foreigner needs a place where to stay and and an income. Does any country allow foreigner to stay without an income and a place where to stay?It doesn't seem to me that Thailand asks more.

Right, I'll indulge you B'sard. You've neatly described that Italy seems to be a very racist place in yours and your wife's experience. I've said my wife and myself's experience in Britain, is that it is not so, and what's more she has been given rights and benefits very quickly after arriving. What's more, BOTH our wives have been given residence status in the respective countries, without major hassle, expense and heartache in our case. But the same is not true for me coming to Thailand and I can neither afford nor envisage being given residence status in the expensive lottery here. So, your assertion, about Thailand not seeming to "ask more" in reciprocation for residence does not sem to hold water, unless you can enlighten us?

As for the other point about the 30 baht scheme, again i'll have to reiterate some things already said. It's neither popular with doctors, nor patients who have not seen any improvement in service since it was implemented, and those i know prefered the old schem under Chuan. But the fact, that doctors are bailing out in their droves, especially in the rural areas where the patient:doctor ratio is appalling anyway, is the best testament to it's failure. The private system benefits, because certain private hospitals have been selected under the scheme to offer "service" to the public. It's an open secret that they treat the ordinary 30 baht punters with contempt in their rich persons hospital, give them shoddy treatment, then charge the govt. a mint (=loadsamoney) for the second class treatment they've given. Unfortunately, my friend's wife could have got the same treatment (or lack of it) for 30 baht, had they known where to go, but instead he was skinned for 8,000 baht. But such is the life of the poor in LOS.

[buasaard]

I just wanted to say that there are pros and cons in both situations.

In Europe, or America or Australia if you have the residence right it's not difficult to cope with the system, but it is far more difficult to have the residence right. For instance, in most countries there are limits on how many people can enter from each country, I read in America a few residence rights are issued with a lottery draw(is it right). If you have the right requisites you can enter Thailand, though you have to go to immigration often.

By the way anybody knows about immigration rules in Russia, Nigeria, India , Brazil etc?..Everybody here seems to think that the world is only Europe, Australia and US, but the government has to issue rules for immigrants from all over the world and certainly cannot establish double standard rules.

Regarding racism, you had not much experience (only two years while my wife has lived here for 16 years), also the first years were not bad only recently racism has come out in Italy.

Also England does not seem racism-free considering for instance the two years ago's Bradford clashes.

What I meant is that thais are much more friendly with "farangs" than europeans with thais, at least nothing racism-wife.

For medical system, I don't see much difference between 500 hundred bath a year and 30 bath every time go to hospital.

And we have different experiences, for instance my wife's uncle which is a poor farmer in Petchaboon province, last year had a worm under the skin on the arm (one of those that spread to heart and brain). He went to the hospital and paid 30 bath. They gave him the medicines and cured him. With 500 bath scheme surely he wouldn't have had the money to pay the health card, and would have probably died.

Of course the health system should be improved, but how do you say? Rome wasn't built in a day.

why does a small can of chang cost  20 baht ? the same if not more expensive than the equivalent beer in some western countries.bear in mind tax is low as is production and running costs to make it.

Franky I don't see the relation between a can of chang and land ownership. The price of a product is made of various components and in a can of beer certainly has a great importance the cost of barley, wheat and everything beer is made with. I don't think Thailand has a great production of barley(I might be wrong) and has to import it. There is also the aspect of demand and supply, and certainly beer has a high demand in Thailand...

Anyway to clear my thoughts I wish I could own land (I can't anyway for the financial aspect), but I don't see as the most important aspect of living in Thailand. I think that a speculator should worry about it, not "poor" farangs.

[parryhandy]

buasaard read my whole post i was refering to the satement about things being more expensive if companies are foreign owned.its nothing to do with costs its about vested interest laws , lack of competition and therefore price fixing.