Red Shirt Demonstration

[jumnien]

Go Red Go! Democracy for Thailand, Army to the Barracks!

[yoshiwara]

Thaksin continues to nibble away until he can get his feet back in the money trough. He's still feeling lucky, either that or he's bored. One thing's for sure, he ain't coming back while VIP is standing up.

[KhaoNiaw]

On the news, I saw there were a number of protests going on in Bangkok yesterday. It made me wonder if any Reds had headed over to show support for the farmers looking for debt relief or the workers who've just been laid off. Or maybe they don't care about those issues?

[Journalist]

Sure, I was blocked at Swampy in the afternoon of 25th November 2008 between two flights because the PAD blocking the access to the airport. Now how do you think PASSENGERS and CREWS to fly the planes could reach the airport???

NO passengers, NO crews, NO planes can leave, you got that Journalist

Can I add to this that the red shirts are demonstrating OUTSIDE government house, not OCCUPYING the place?

And I don't think they will be that stupid to equal or better the damage the yellows did to the economy

The reds seem to be able to rally in a less intrusive way than PAD did - in Bangkok at least. If 30,000 approach the airport legally and peacefully and in a spirit of national salvation, there is no justification in machine gunning them.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

[Plus]

Reds might go to farmers' protests to beat their heads in for not joining the red rally, they did that in Chiang Mai recently.

BBC news feed had "Pro-Thaksin protesters" in the headline, as long as they are branded like that no one will take them seriously.

Abhisit can safely ignore the rally because it's just a show, they don't have any concrete demands or proposals that he can possibly consider. The 65 mil country also has plenty of idiots needing a stage to present themselves, they all go to red rallies now - anti-monarchy, anti-military, anti-democracy, anti-anything, everybody is welcome, everybody comes with a long list of his own demands.

Is it dangerous for country's stability? I don't think so, people have a place to express themselves and no one else gives a fuc_k - isn't it democracy and freedom of speech in progress?

Eventually it will die out as it doesn't have underlying and unifying purpose they can present to the society ("bring back Thaksin" agenda doesn't count).

[dave9988]

Reds might go to farmers' protests to beat their heads in for not joining the red rally, they did that in Chiang Mai recently.

BBC news feed had "Pro-Thaksin protesters" in the headline, as long as they are branded like that no one will take them seriously.

Abhisit can safely ignore the rally because it's just a show, they don't have any concrete demands or proposals that he can possibly consider. The 65 mil country also has plenty of idiots needing a stage to present themselves, they all go to red rallies now - anti-monarchy, anti-military, anti-democracy, anti-anything, everybody is welcome, everybody comes with a long list of his own demands.

Is it dangerous for country's stability? I don't think so, people have a place to express themselves and no one else gives a fuc_k - isn't it democracy and freedom of speech in progress?

No. Not really.

[rixalex]

the yellows set a fine exapmle , showing that MOB rule can achieve political change without any ill concequences.

so the reds want to give it a go, more power to them. fairs fair.

if it helps pressure the goverment to act to resolve the political problems, then good.

All these months we've been listening to your moans about how the PAD protests were undemocratic and illegal - and the protest at the airport an act of terrorism. And now suddenly, just because it's the red side that's doing it, you think it's great?

So quick to ditch the values you've been espousing, one wonders if you actually have any beliefs that you can stick to, besides of course the return of your square-faced hero.

[mc2]

the yellows set a fine exapmle , showing that MOB rule can achieve political change without any ill concequences.

so the reds want to give it a go, more power to them. fairs fair.

if it helps pressure the goverment to act to resolve the political problems, then good.

All these months we've been listening to your moans about how the PAD protests were undemocratic and illegal - and the protest at the airport an act of terrorism. And now suddenly, just because it's the red side that's doing it, you think it's great?

So quick to ditch the values you've been espousing, one wonders if you actually have any beliefs that you can stick to, besides of course the return of your square-faced hero.

And i didnt see too many yellow shirt supporters condemn the yellows when they exerted their mob power, yet kick up a fuss when the reds start.

My thoughts on this are that the PAD leaders should be held accountable with regard to the airport etc.

Once this is settled then the yellow supporters and the goverment have a leg to stand on when it comes to critisising the reds.

I believe in peaceful protests but not mob rule and taking over airports.

Edited February 25, 2009 by mc2

[Gary A]

It's too bad that Abhisit had to pay his dues to the PAD. If he had not had to appoint Kasit he may have had a good chance to form a stable government and people would have given him a chance. Now he has to answer for the milk scandal and putting traditional herbs on a toxic material list. If corruption is ever looked at seriously and those people prosecuted, then Thailand can start over and MAYBE find some honest young politicians. Unfortunately it appears that the good ole boy's network will stick together and continue their normal corrupt ways.

[rixalex]

yet kick up a fuss when the reds start.

Who's kicking up a fuss? If the "reds" want to spend their time protesting on behalf of a criminal, and they don't consider that to be waste of their time, "up to them" i say. They can protest all they like.

What they and for that matter you, Mr mc2, can't do is protest on the one hand, and on the other be complaining and calling for prosecution of the PAD for their protests of the last few months.

Well they can, it just makes them look very silly - not to mention hypocritical, but perhaps that's not a big concern?

[Plus]

There's an opinion piece in today's Bangkok Post, very critical of PAD and Abhisit's handling of prosecution, but even there the author couldn't avoid mentioning that the police has no idea what to charge PAD with for airport closure. Apparently they did nothing really criminal, didn't hold anyone hostage, didn't put guns to people's heads, didn't break into control room or anything.

All this "terrorism" was just a large group of people in a public area.

>>>

Reds can protest all they want - they are not a political movement and they don't make any sense whatsoever.

Today Jatuporn is quoted in the Nation:

"This government is full of robbers. We did not vote for them. The majority of this country did not vote for them but somehow they are in power because the elite want them to be."

What a load of crap!

All government MPs were voted in by their constituents, they all come from elections. What is this "majority" that did not vote for them? His own party got only 36% and that even before the defections. What majority is he talking about?

These red leaders can't be reasoned with, they are just spoiled brats with unlimited list of demands and no sense of resposibility whatsoever. And, just like with brats, the govt gives them a silent treatment, their tantrums can't last forever.

[jdinasia]

There's an opinion piece in today's Bangkok Post, very critical of PAD and Abhisit's handling of prosecution, but even there the author couldn't avoid mentioning that the police has no idea what to charge PAD with for airport closure. Apparently they did nothing really criminal, didn't hold anyone hostage, didn't put guns to people's heads, didn't break into control room or anything.

All this "terrorism" was just a large group of people in a public area.

>>>

Reds can protest all they want - they are not a political movement and they don't make any sense whatsoever.

Today Jatuporn is quoted in the Nation:

"This government is full of robbers. We did not vote for them. The majority of this country did not vote for them but somehow they are in power because the elite want them to be."

What a load of crap!

All government MPs were voted in by their constituents, they all come from elections. What is this "majority" that did not vote for them? His own party got only 36% and that even before the defections. What majority is he talking about?

These red leaders can't be reasoned with, they are just spoiled brats with unlimited list of demands and no sense of resposibility whatsoever. And, just like with brats, the govt gives them a silent treatment, their tantrums can't last forever.

Pretty much the PAD Gov't house rally is a no-go for prosecution. The Airports are as well. I WOULD like to see those few yellows that actually were nasty have a day in court, but almost every single time they were attacked first, so that will mitigate the results of even a guilty verdict.

[ballpoint]

the yellows set a fine exapmle , showing that MOB rule can achieve political change without any ill concequences.

so the reds want to give it a go, more power to them. fairs fair.

if it helps pressure the goverment to act to resolve the political problems, then good.

All these months we've been listening to your moans about how the PAD protests were undemocratic and illegal - and the protest at the airport an act of terrorism. And now suddenly, just because it's the red side that's doing it, you think it's great?

So quick to ditch the values you've been espousing, one wonders if you actually have any beliefs that you can stick to, besides of course the return of your square-faced hero.

And i didnt see too many yellow shirt supporters condemn the yellows when they exerted their mob power, yet kick up a fuss when the reds start.

My thoughts on this are that the PAD leaders should be held accountable with regard to the airport etc.

Once this is settled then the yellow supporters and the goverment have a leg to stand on when it comes to critisising the reds.

I believe in peaceful protests but not mob rule and taking over airports.

Bit of contradiction there. You think the reds should be allowed to give mob rule a go, but you don't believe in mob rule?

It wasn't mob rule that brought down the previous government anyway. They clung on to power and refused to either dissolve parliament, or deal firmly with the protestors, despite the civil structure of the country crumbling away. It was the court decision that ended the PPP government. I hope the current government stamps its authority down, keeps the confidence of the police and army and deals with the ringleaders of any debilitating protests. The previous government was far too weak in this regard. They were too busy fiddling with Thaksin while the country burned.

[Journalist]

All government MPs were voted in by their constituents, they all come from elections. What is this "majority" that did not vote for them? His own party got only 36% and that even before the defections. What majority is he talking about?

The last general election was (so we were told ten squillion times by h90) not a democratic election because of vote rigging.

Therefore any government whose mandate results from such a flawed and undemocratic election is illegitimate.

[samgrowth]

There's an opinion piece in today's Bangkok Post, very critical of PAD and Abhisit's handling of prosecution, but even there the author couldn't avoid mentioning that the police has no idea what to charge PAD with for airport closure. Apparently they did nothing really criminal, didn't hold anyone hostage, didn't put guns to people's heads, didn't break into control room or anything.

All this "terrorism" was just a large group of people in a public area.

You make me want to laugh. Can I ask you one question. Who set up the barricade to prevent public, staff and crew from getting to the airport?

[Journalist]

Abhisit will never shake off the stigma of having achieved the PMs office by creeping in down the chimney until he gets his own popular mandate from the people, and not one from a tarnished Parliament.

Rather than dance around on the issue, he should seek to call elections in six months.

When he wins that, and I think he would win, (partially abetted by the tea money now being passed to Kamnans), then he gets respect from everywhere at that point.

Perhaps then he will emerge from the skirts of the army.....eg tell them their budgets have to go through Parliament and are not secret issues of 'national security' to be determined by themselves (unless they plan to buy an atom bomb)

[Plus]

Can I ask you one question. Who set up the barricade to prevent public, staff and crew from getting to the airport?

Yeah, but that road block in itself is nothing. Farmers set up road blocks every week no one ever charges them with anything.

until he gets his own popular mandate from the people

In Thai system the PM doesn't need mandate from the people, he needs mandate from MPs and Abhisit got that.

In practice, however, people feel like they vote for president, ala the US. In that sense he needs his party to get most votes. On the other hand it's just a condition set forth by PTP, it has never been practiced or required in Thai politics.

[Journalist]

In Thai system the PM doesn't need mandate from the people, he needs mandate from MPs and Abhisit got that.

If he prioritises power, then he can try to hang on for the life of the Parliament if he wants to.

But I don't think he'd be smart to do so. After six months and a good track record with good policies he should go for an election.

MPs are delegates of the people, this is parliamentary democracy and the mandate does come from the people, intermediated by their MPs. In that context the voters will one day have the right to ask why they voted in Newin's side to support a PPP Government if that faction then decided on their own volition to support someone else.

I've never heard any Prime Minister in a parliamentary democracy with MPs make the assertion that his mandate to govern doesn't come from his people.

Edited February 26, 2009 by Journalist

[permanent_disorder]

There's an opinion piece in today's Bangkok Post, very critical of PAD and Abhisit's handling of prosecution, but even there the author couldn't avoid mentioning that the police has no idea what to charge PAD with for airport closure. Apparently they did nothing really criminal, didn't hold anyone hostage, didn't put guns to people's heads, didn't break into control room or anything.

All this "terrorism" was just a large group of people in a public area.

>>>

i read anothor opinion piece in yesterdays Bangkok Post that sees the things different and goes like this:

Is the Abhisit Vejjajiva administration really serious about preventing the airports from being seized again, as the prime minister himself strongly pledged to the world recently?

Probably not - if one looks at how the authorities are pursuing charges against leaders of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) for their siege of Suvarnabhumi and Don Mueang airports during Nov 25-Dec 4 last year. Investigations into the case have been painfully slow, as police remain confused, intentionally or not, as to what charges they would press against the PAD leaders, despite the abundant evidence.

The draft bill on anti-airport seizure which was recently approved by the Cabinet appears to be more proof of the lack of any serious intention to keep airports off-limits to political rallies.

The draft contains a ridiculously light penalty for any attempt to seize Suvarnabhumi Airport, the heart and soul of Thailand's air transport hub around which much of the Thai economy is built. It is highly offending that the proposed punishment for a crime that causes the national economy a massive heart attack and ruins the country's international image carries a measly fine of between 500 and 10,000 baht!

Why on earth is serious criminal punishment conspicuously absent from the draft?

...

One question springs to mind: Is the anti-airport seizure draft bill and action plan needed in the first place?

There exists a penal code (sections 135/1 and 132/2 amended in 2003) which classifies the seizure of airports as an act of terrorism, a crime subject to a fine of between 60,000 and 1 million baht, as well as the death penalty.

The penalty is harsh enough to deter any more crime - but only if the authorities enforce the rule of law.

...

The Abhisit government needs to do a better job to convince us that it is dead serious about preventing history from repeating itself, and must indiscriminately allow existing laws to take their course.

Thailand has paid dearly for the PAD's senseless and embarrassing action: 210 billion baht in losses and causing the country's GDP to contract for the first time in nearly a decade in the fourth quarter to minus 4.3% year-on-year.

Bangkok Post

, Boonsong Kositchotethana, Published: 25/02/2009

according to this commentator there is a lot of evidence, a clear penal code that call the seizure of airport terrorism, to be punished with fine up to Baht 1 mill. and maybe even death penalty. but the investigation is slow, the authoritities are lacking of action.

instead there is a new useless and toothless draft bill according airport seizeres with only a max. 10000 baht fine. the author clearly favours the allready existing law and demands from abhisit that he puts it on course.

[Plus]

the voters will one day have the right to ask why they voted in Newin's side to support a PPP Government if that faction then decided on their own volition to support someone else.

It's between Newin and his supporters and I think he has managed that situation already. It's not Nattawut's or anybody else's business.

I've never heard any Prime Minister in a parliamentary democracy with MPs make the assertion that his mandate to govern doesn't come from his people.

Err.., Jatuporn, quoted a few posts back: "We did not vote for them. The majority of this country did not vote for them but somehow they are in power..."

[Journalist]

I've never heard any Prime Minister in a parliamentary democracy with MPs make the assertion that his mandate to govern doesn't come from his people.

Err.., Jatuporn, quoted a few posts back: "We did not vote for them. The majority of this country did not vote for them but somehow they are in power..."

I don't think Jatuporn is Prime Minister....perhaps one day in the future.

[Plus]

Ok, you are correct here, though I don't think you mean it in a way that Jatuporn can make such claims anyway. We have tens of tousands of people who are being told that Abhisit doesn't have people's mandate, and they believe this crap, and that's the problem.

[dave9988]

Plus,

If the reds were to close the airport what would your opinion on that be? That the army or police should intervene and get them out of there and that they should be charged with a crime (I know you can't think of any, but pretend that they exist)...

Or is it only OK to seize airports if your reasons are right. The word right of course being subjected to your own opinions, not those of general society, ie, fascism/dictatorship.

Edited February 26, 2009 by dave9988

[dave9988]

the voters will one day have the right to ask why they voted in Newin's side to support a PPP Government if that faction then decided on their own volition to support someone else.

It's between Newin and his supporters and I think he has managed that situation already. It's not Nattawut's or anybody else's business.

I've never heard any Prime Minister in a parliamentary democracy with MPs make the assertion that his mandate to govern doesn't come from his people.

Err.., Jatuporn, quoted a few posts back: "We did not vote for them. The majority of this country did not vote for them but somehow they are in power..."

Are you serious? He is on record saying that he was told to join the coalition or else. The thing is, Plus, I would have more respect for you if you just came out and said that the ends justified the means and that as long as your side wins it does not matter how you won. Then I could atleast understand where you are coming from. But instead, its like you know everything you post/say is complete BS yet you keep doing it anyways under the principle that if we can't prove the other side of the argument 100% empirically, then you aren't wrong. Are you one of those defense lawyers who gets child rapists off on technicalities? You have a warped sense of reason, justice, and ethics and apparently, very little common sense.

[tonykawakawa]

Hope this won't disrupt any of my plans in April....

(Yes, I know it sounds selfish. I do hope that the Thai people can work out their troubles peacefully, but my holiday....)

[Plus]

If the reds were to close the airport what would your opinion on that be?

That they completely lack originality.

The rest is your speculations.

He is on record saying that he was told to join the coalition or else. The thing is, Plus, I would have more respect for you if you ....

What's that all about? I made a comment that Newin can keep his voters under control, it's his job and he's doing ok so far, there's no backlash for abandoning Thaksin. What has it got to do with what the generals allegedly told him?

Another pretext to justify rantings about my "a warped sense of reason, justice, and ethics and apparently, very little common sense"?

I unerstand I disappoint you from time to time, I suppose you have to learn to live with it.

[Koo82]

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said Friday that he is not worried by protesters who plan to disrupt his visit to Lop Buri Saturday.

...

Asked to comment on reports that about 1,500 police and soldiers will be deployed to step up security in Lop Buri during his visit, Abhisit said he believes the authorities will simply try to keep law and order and prevent violence and clashes between rival groups.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...tests-in-Lop-Bu

[Koo82]

Why does a PM need 1,500 police and soldiers when he goes to a province to see people? We do not kill him. We only show him that we don't want him and those behind his back.

Some media since last year have tried to let out news that people in this province would not come, that province would not come, not valuable to come and listen to what they say on the stage.

Fact: reds come every meeting.

Here was one in Khon Kaen on the 8th this month:

[bkkjames]

Anyone else besides me bored of this coloured sit-in thing? It dominates the daily news still, surely there are bigger issues (economy)?

Guess not.

[Koo82]

The red-shirted people will hold a mass rally any day next week instead of on March 29, Pheu Thai Party MP Jatuporn Promphan said Tuesday.

Jatuporn said the rally would be moved up to any day after Sunday March 22 because the government has moved up the censure debate to Thursday and Friday.

He said the red-shirted people would gather at Sanam Luang before marching to Government House.

-The Nation-