the scouser Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 That made me laugh with the guy being african He's British, not "African". I am aware of Africa as a continent, but not as a nationality. Likewise, I am aware that many people who hail from the continent might be of either black, Asian, Arabic, oriental or white appearance. I concur with "Electra" that the catalyst was the couldn't-care-less attitude of the embassy official who didn't want to delay his early dart on a Friday. In response to the previous poster who suggests that it is of no concern to the Thai authorities that someone is trying to leave on a potentially forged/counterfeit document, I would only say that s/he has little understanding of the way these things truly work. If a document were to be either forged or counterfeit, and this were to be detected by the UK immigration authorities, the holder would be on a flight straight back to Thailand, whereupon it would be the Thai authorities' problem. They may as well deal with a perceived problem at source, rather than a day later. Unfortunately, as already established, it was the British embassy bloke who created the whole problem. SNAFU! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaiwanderer Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 A major chunk of this rationalization of the thai official's action - namely that he was following the trail of a possibly false passport is fanciful or a comment on the idiotic arrogance of the said official. Burrowes was going to England where he would come up before a british passport officer. Did the thai official really suppose - or does electra find it reasonable - that said official was better placed, or remotely as qualified, to assess the authenticity of the british passport as would be the heathrow passport officer? In that case an immigration official should only inspect passports of travellers from that country - everyone else should sail through with no checks???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electra Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Where is the link saying the official DID NOT speak with Simon, the links I read said he DID speak with Simon and refused to do the work to keep him out of jail as the weekend was coming. Please accept my apologies for giving the wrong impresson. Whereas it is accurate to state the consular official was reported to have spoken to Burrowes whilst at the airport it is also correct to say that he did so but only to relay the information that he could find no trace of his passport number having been issued and that he could not pursue any further enquiries until after the weekend. Whilst this approach may well be appropriate for a shiney arsed clerk failing to trace an order form for a box of paper clips it is utterly unacceptable conduct in a consular official charged with assisting a fellow national in extremis. A simple interview establishing his Britishness was all that was required in the circumstances and most consular officials worth their salt would have had the nous and expertise to achieve that in a very short time. What is worrying is that this particular incompetent declined to do that and evidently was ignorant of the fact that details of British passports issued by many posts abroad before 2005 or thereabouts were not automatically entered into a centrally accessible database. Quite bizarre really when one considers that nationality and passport issue is the raison d'etre of any consular section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caf Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 That made me laugh with the guy being african He's British, not "African". I am aware of Africa as a continent, but not as a nationality. Likewise, I am aware that many people who hail from the continent might be of either black, Asian, Arabic, oriental or white appearance. I concur with "Electra" that the catalyst was the couldn't-care-less attitude of the embassy official who didn't want to delay his early dart on a Friday. In response to the previous poster who suggests that it is of no concern to the Thai authorities that someone is trying to leave on a potentially forged/counterfeit document, I would only say that s/he has little understanding of the way these things truly work. If a document were to be either forged or counterfeit, and this were to be detected by the UK immigration authorities, the holder would be on a flight straight back to Thailand, whereupon it would be the Thai authorities' problem. They may as well deal with a perceived problem at source, rather than a day later. Unfortunately, as already established, it was the British embassy bloke who created the whole problem. SNAFU! Thanks for a reasoned reply. I hope the UK consular authorities have learnt from this - whether they will ever admit to having done so is of course another question. Well done, electra, for giving a balanced view here. Hope the usual Thai apologists learn from it too and maybe improve their writing style Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungy007 Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 I hope he gets life, then gets 'shanked' on the first day inside..... , but I am a bit of a sadist, albiet a fair sadist. An extremely saddening posting which I am suprised to read! You have really embarrassed yourself and have done much to hurt the campaign waged by those who fail to accept that this whole event was a tragic mistake by Thailand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabum Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 I hope he gets life, then gets 'shanked' on the first day inside..... , but I am a bit of a sadist, albiet a fair sadist. An extremely saddening posting which I am suprised to read! You have really embarrassed yourself and have done much to hurt the campaign waged by those who fail to accept that this whole event was a tragic mistake by Thailand! Neverdie is actually just posting like that to be annoying, it isnt his real opinion.... that would be called trolling and I really wish he wouldnt do that. Don't know why he chose this topic to be an annoying child about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaiwanderer Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Where is the link saying the official DID NOT speak with Simon, the links I read said he DID speak with Simon and refused to do the work to keep him out of jail as the weekend was coming. Please accept my apologies for giving the wrong impresson. Whereas it is accurate to state the consular official was reported to have spoken to Burrowes whilst at the airport it is also correct to say that he did so but only to relay the information that he could find no trace of his passport number having been issued and that he could not pursue any further enquiries until after the weekend. Whilst this approach may well be appropriate for a shiney arsed clerk failing to trace an order form for a box of paper clips it is utterly unacceptable conduct in a consular official charged with assisting a fellow national in extremis. A simple interview establishing his Britishness was all that was required in the circumstances and most consular officials worth their salt would have had the nous and expertise to achieve that in a very short time. What is worrying is that this particular incompetent declined to do that and evidently was ignorant of the fact that details of British passports issued by many posts abroad before 2005 or thereabouts were not automatically entered into a centrally accessible database. Quite bizarre really when one considers that nationality and passport issue is the raison d'etre of any consular section. well the point is it was not clear he was a 'fellow national' a 'simple interview' can establish nationality? really??????? and even if it could, it could establish validity of travel documents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GungaDin Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Where is the link saying the official DID NOT speak with Simon, the links I read said he DID speak with Simon and refused to do the work to keep him out of jail as the weekend was coming. Please accept my apologies for giving the wrong impresson. Whereas it is accurate to state the consular official was reported to have spoken to Burrowes whilst at the airport it is also correct to say that he did so but only to relay the information that he could find no trace of his passport number having been issued and that he could not pursue any further enquiries until after the weekend. Whilst this approach may well be appropriate for a shiney arsed clerk failing to trace an order form for a box of paper clips it is utterly unacceptable conduct in a consular official charged with assisting a fellow national in extremis. A simple interview establishing his Britishness was all that was required in the circumstances and most consular officials worth their salt would have had the nous and expertise to achieve that in a very short time. What is worrying is that this particular incompetent declined to do that and evidently was ignorant of the fact that details of British passports issued by many posts abroad before 2005 or thereabouts were not automatically entered into a centrally accessible database. Quite bizarre really when one considers that nationality and passport issue is the raison d'etre of any consular section. well the point is it was not clear he was a 'fellow national' a 'simple interview' can establish nationality? really??????? and even if it could, it could establish validity of travel documents? You're just nitpicking, give it a rest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaiwanderer Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Where is the link saying the official DID NOT speak with Simon, the links I read said he DID speak with Simon and refused to do the work to keep him out of jail as the weekend was coming. Please accept my apologies for giving the wrong impresson. Whereas it is accurate to state the consular official was reported to have spoken to Burrowes whilst at the airport it is also correct to say that he did so but only to relay the information that he could find no trace of his passport number having been issued and that he could not pursue any further enquiries until after the weekend. Whilst this approach may well be appropriate for a shiney arsed clerk failing to trace an order form for a box of paper clips it is utterly unacceptable conduct in a consular official charged with assisting a fellow national in extremis. A simple interview establishing his Britishness was all that was required in the circumstances and most consular officials worth their salt would have had the nous and expertise to achieve that in a very short time. What is worrying is that this particular incompetent declined to do that and evidently was ignorant of the fact that details of British passports issued by many posts abroad before 2005 or thereabouts were not automatically entered into a centrally accessible database. Quite bizarre really when one considers that nationality and passport issue is the raison d'etre of any consular section. well the point is it was not clear he was a 'fellow national' a 'simple interview' can establish nationality? really??????? and even if it could, it could establish validity of travel documents? You're just nitpicking, give it a rest! nitpicking not allowed on TV - i must not have that filter - what are you doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electra Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 a 'simple interview' can establish nationality? really??????? and even if it could, it could establish validity of travel documents? In the circumstances of Burrowes' case, yes, a brief interview by an experienced officer would have quickly dispelled any doubts as to his entitlement of the passport, the validity of which was only questioned because: the bearer was a black man whose photograph, in the immigration officer's opinion, depicted him in a state of undress and therefore unlikely to have been original to the document which in any case had been issued in a format untypical of the majority of passports handled at the control in Phuket. Coupled with the fact that the offical's only contribution to the exchange was a bald statement his records revealed no trace of the document inevitably consigned Burrowes to his undeserved fate. In layman's terms, and I must assume from your comments you are indeed that, the maxim that if it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck and acts like a duck then it probably is a duck rings true and in the real world is a reliable yardstick generally employed by competent officers the world over who are seized of a modicum of intelligence and are prepared to exercise their judgement for which they are suitably trained. Sadly, Burrowes had the bad luck to draw the Friday ' lemon' whose exception proves the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the scouser Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 a 'simple interview' can establish nationality? really??????? and even if it could, it could establish validity of travel documents? Absolutely! In my immigration days, it was indeed through the medium of a simple interview that we would initially determine someone's entitlement to a British passport. It was only once suspicions had arisen that certainty would be established through forgery analysis of the passport. As "Electra" states, albeit rather obliquely, if the bloke not only speaks with a British accent, but has a geographical awareness of where he purports to live, coupled with general knowledge of the UK, all of which can be established in the course of 5-minute chat, then the chances are he's a Brit. If, on the other hand, he speaks with, for example, a broad West African accent, thinks Big Ben is in Glasgow, and that Tony Blair is the Queen, the chances are he's not a Brit. There you go - problem solved without even looking at the passport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatinBKk Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 The guy has a great big chip on his shoulder, why does he have to think it is because he is black....he was rude, he swore and he snatched the passport back....nothing to do with your colour mr burrows....hope you get 5 years, maybe teach you a bit of respect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaiwanderer Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 a 'simple interview' can establish nationality? really??????? and even if it could, it could establish validity of travel documents? Absolutely! In my immigration days, it was indeed through the medium of a simple interview that we would initially determine someone's entitlement to a British passport. It was only once suspicions had arisen that certainty would be established through forgery analysis of the passport. As "Electra" states, albeit rather obliquely, if the bloke not only speaks with a British accent, but has a geographical awareness of where he purports to live, coupled with general knowledge of the UK, all of which can be established in the course of 5-minute chat, then the chances are he's a Brit. If, on the other hand, he speaks with, for example, a broad West African accent, thinks Big Ben is in Glasgow, and that Tony Blair is the Queen, the chances are he's not a Brit. There you go - problem solved without even looking at the passport. even if that were the case (looks, sounds, walks like a duck in electra's phrase - of course doesn't mean it is a duck recognised by the laws of the ducks country ) and he is deemed to be of british origin the validity of his travel documents is not an issue at all? obviously as electra says i am a layman so please forgive my ignorance on the rules it just seems to offend common sense - immigration is not just establishing your nationality is it? what about his identity (wanted in thailand, overstay, not any longer a UK citizen etc.) - are they not issues for the Thai immigration official? thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiu-Jitsu Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 The guy has a great big chip on his shoulder, why does he have to think it is because he is black....he was rude, he swore and he snatched the passport back....nothing to do with your colour mr burrows....hope you get 5 years, maybe teach you a bit of respect Be careful about what you wish. Might just happen to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zorro1 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 The very last thing one would do whilst being interviewed by an official in a developing or third world country is to say anything offensive let alone "F OFF" He will go to jail for sure its a face thing now although should be released within 6 months . If I were him i would be trekking through a jungle crossing to Cambodia and then straight to the Uk embassy there. Do they have embassys there ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the scouser Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 even if that were the case (looks, sounds, walks like a duck in electra's phrase - of course doesn't mean it is a duck recognised by the laws of the ducks country ) and he is deemed to be of british origin the validity of his travel documents is not an issue at all? No, it's not. With regard to someone travelling to the UK, if they're British then that's it - they have "the right of abode" and they can come in. If the individual is British but has somehow f'd-around with his passport, then that might be a matter for further investigation in the UK, but, quite simply, you can't deny a Brit's right to enter Britain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossBones Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 I remember about 4 years ago I found one of the web sites for Thai consular in the UK openly stating different visa rules for "Negro's" I cant remember where it was, but if I knew the page I could go to Archive.org and find it - I was shocked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zorro1 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 I remember about 4 years ago I found one of the web sites for Thai consular in the UK openly stating different visa rules for "Negro's"I cant remember where it was, but if I knew the page I could go to Archive.org and find it - I was shocked! Impossible to discuss what you just posted without being blanket covered by Racism. There may be some method to their madness though, here in BKK at least it is well known that soi3 is a drug distribution area, there is a bar right at the end of the soi which pretty much caters to Nigerians just like there are German bars or Irish etc. There is an odd sign at the very front in the outdoor area that says NO PHOTOS. Read into that what you want but considering there arnt naked ladies in view?? Can only imagine 1 other reason why that would be there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabum Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 The very last thing one would do whilst being interviewed by an official in a developing or third world country is to say anything offensive let alone "F OFF"He will go to jail for sure its a face thing now although should be released within 6 months . If I were him i would be trekking through a jungle crossing to Cambodia and then straight to the Uk embassy there. Do they have embassys there ? He didn't say F off... read the links. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panhandlers Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 A BRITISH man is facing a two-year sentence in a hellish Thai prison for being 'rude' Freakin' unreal! I've been told that when things go wrong in Thailand they tend to go wrong all at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungy007 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 That made me laugh with the guy being african He's British, not "African". I am aware of Africa as a continent, but not as a nationality. Likewise, I am aware that many people who hail from the continent might be of either black, Asian, Arabic, oriental or white appearance. I concur with "Electra" that the catalyst was the couldn't-care-less attitude of the embassy official who didn't want to delay his early dart on a Friday. In response to the previous poster who suggests that it is of no concern to the Thai authorities that someone is trying to leave on a potentially forged/counterfeit document, I would only say that s/he has little understanding of the way these things truly work. If a document were to be either forged or counterfeit, and this were to be detected by the UK immigration authorities, the holder would be on a flight straight back to Thailand, whereupon it would be the Thai authorities' problem. They may as well deal with a perceived problem at source, rather than a day later. Unfortunately, as already established, it was the British embassy bloke who created the whole problem. SNAFU! Absolutely, the British Embassy 'civil servant' should be held accountable and in the public eye - not hushed up and swept under the carpet. The man/woman who dealt with this case should declare themself and appologise publicly for putting the life of a British National at such a dire risk - a Thai prison for God's sake! Where is their compassion and shame? Some may say - 'we only have hearsay to back this up' but the fact is that he spent 3 unecessary days in an absolute hel_l where anything could have happened - rape (it would have to be a pretty big gang) or worse because the British Embassy bloke couldn't be bothered to make this a priority! I seriously hope he/she finds him/herself in need of such immediate assistance and is left swinging in the wind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungy007 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Where is the link saying the official DID NOT speak with Simon, the links I read said he DID speak with Simon and refused to do the work to keep him out of jail as the weekend was coming. Please accept my apologies for giving the wrong impresson. Whereas it is accurate to state the consular official was reported to have spoken to Burrowes whilst at the airport it is also correct to say that he did so but only to relay the information that he could find no trace of his passport number having been issued and that he could not pursue any further enquiries until after the weekend. Whilst this approach may well be appropriate for a shiney arsed clerk failing to trace an order form for a box of paper clips it is utterly unacceptable conduct in a consular official charged with assisting a fellow national in extremis. A simple interview establishing his Britishness was all that was required in the circumstances and most consular officials worth their salt would have had the nous and expertise to achieve that in a very short time. What is worrying is that this particular incompetent declined to do that and evidently was ignorant of the fact that details of British passports issued by many posts abroad before 2005 or thereabouts were not automatically entered into a centrally accessible database. Quite bizarre really when one considers that nationality and passport issue is the raison d'etre of any consular section. I cannot agree more! This post should be read by all before any comments on the case are made! This is the starting point - not Australia. This selfish buffoon who may be dealing with your case if you get into strife with the locals threw Simon to the lions! He or she is a disgrace and the public needs to know that they are no longer in danger from this incompetant! I think we all need to be assured of this or who knows what may happen when we need vital assistance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungy007 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 I hope he gets life, then gets 'shanked' on the first day inside..... , but I am a bit of a sadist, albiet a fair sadist. An extremely saddening posting which I am suprised to read! You have really embarrassed yourself and have done much to hurt the campaign waged by those who fail to accept that this whole event was a tragic mistake by Thailand! Neverdie is actually just posting like that to be annoying, it isnt his real opinion.... that would be called trolling and I really wish he wouldnt do that. Don't know why he chose this topic to be an annoying child about. must be because he's a 'kin idiot! Wonder if he has the minerals to say it to Simon's face! That I would love to see - I'd pay money to watch it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungy007 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 The guy has a great big chip on his shoulder, why does he have to think it is because he is black....he was rude, he swore and he snatched the passport back....nothing to do with your colour mr burrows....hope you get 5 years, maybe teach you a bit of respect After all that has been written this must be a troll! You see? It doesn't take more than a sentence or two to establish some basic facts and this opportunity should have been given to Simon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zorro1 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 The very last thing one would do whilst being interviewed by an official in a developing or third world country is to say anything offensive let alone "F OFF"He will go to jail for sure its a face thing now although should be released within 6 months . If I were him i would be trekking through a jungle crossing to Cambodia and then straight to the Uk embassy there. Do they have embassys there ? He didn't say F off... read the links. "When the official started to ask questions, Burrowes became angry, Khun Suksopon said, and snatched back his passport. Burrowes then said ''F*** You'' and criticised Thailand in an offensive way, Khun Suksopon added." Your kidding me right? don't they mean the same thing when used in a heated situation? hope your not one of those annoying posters that's now going to check my spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungy007 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 a 'simple interview' can establish nationality? really??????? and even if it could, it could establish validity of travel documents? Absolutely! In my immigration days, it was indeed through the medium of a simple interview that we would initially determine someone's entitlement to a British passport. It was only once suspicions had arisen that certainty would be established through forgery analysis of the passport. As "Electra" states, albeit rather obliquely, if the bloke not only speaks with a British accent, but has a geographical awareness of where he purports to live, coupled with general knowledge of the UK, all of which can be established in the course of 5-minute chat, then the chances are he's a Brit. If, on the other hand, he speaks with, for example, a broad West African accent, thinks Big Ben is in Glasgow, and that Tony Blair is the Queen, the chances are he's not a Brit. There you go - problem solved without even looking at the passport. even if that were the case (looks, sounds, walks like a duck in electra's phrase - of course doesn't mean it is a duck recognised by the laws of the ducks country ) and he is deemed to be of british origin the validity of his travel documents is not an issue at all? obviously as electra says i am a layman so please forgive my ignorance on the rules it just seems to offend common sense - immigration is not just establishing your nationality is it? what about his identity (wanted in thailand, overstay, not any longer a UK citizen etc.) - are they not issues for the Thai immigration official? thank you Focus man, focus. None of your points were the issue of the day! Wake up! Try and stay with us! It was all about an erroneous judgement that Simon's passport was false which was finally cleared up 3 days later though he wasn't released for another 8 days - presumeably the time taken for the cerebrally challenged brown shirts to come up with plan B! Now go back to sleep! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaiwanderer Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 (edited) Focus man, focus. None of your points were the issue of the day! Wake up! Try and stay with us! It was all about an erroneous judgement that Simon's passport was false which was finally cleared up 3 days later though he wasn't released for another 8 days - presumeably the time taken for the cerebrally challenged brown shirts to come up with plan B! Now go back to sleep! they were issues when he was hoping to board his flight and on your version of events remained an issue for 3 days so the touted '5 minute chat' to establish nationality (but not identity?) is entirely relevant up to that point Edited April 25, 2009 by thaiwanderer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanmiguel Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Wow Is this thread still going. I really cant be bothered to read 41 pages, so did the guy get released without charge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabum Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 He didn't say F off... read the links. "When the official started to ask questions, Burrowes became angry, Khun Suksopon said, and snatched back his passport. Burrowes then said ''F*** You'' and criticised Thailand in an offensive way, Khun Suksopon added." Your kidding me right? don't they mean the same thing when used in a heated situation? hope your not one of those annoying posters that's now going to check my spelling Ya uh... SUKSOPON who probably speaks limitted english heard the f word and just assumed it was directed at him. Simon reported that he said "don't treat me like a flucking idiot!" in response to them laughing at him when he was trying to ask questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texpat Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 (edited) Simon reported that he said "don't treat me like a flucking idiot!" in response to them laughing at him when he was trying to ask questions. What kind of idiot would he expect to be treated like using that language to an immigration officer? He deserves everything he gets and will hopefully use his time in prison working on his manners. Edited April 25, 2009 by Texpat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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