Aids In Thailand, How Bad Is It ?

[hopeless]

Don't you boys and girls think that once a cure for Aids has been found some other illness will threaten mankind?

I don't wish anybody to get aids or cancer or whatever but maybe these illnesses are just nature's way of saying there are too many people on this planet.

Instead of wasting money on finding all sorts of cures maybe it's better to do nothing thereby allowing the weak to die and the strong to survive.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

HIV is man made!

[Digger]

Don't you boys and girls think that once a cure for Aids has been found some other illness will threaten mankind?

I don't wish anybody to get aids or cancer or whatever but maybe these illnesses are just nature's way of saying there are too many people on this planet.

Instead of wasting money on finding all sorts of cures maybe it's better to do nothing thereby allowing the weak to die and the strong to survive.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

HIV is man made!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And Princess Diana was murdered by the British secret service, Kennedy was shot by the mafia and santa claus really does exist

Edited February 2, 2005 by Digger

[sua yai]

It's a long time since I've followed this thread, but I should have done.

The girl I referred to a couple of months ago is actually a lot closer to me than the post would suggest.

I'm no doctor, but I've certainly done a bit of research into hiv since she told me her status 7 months ago. She always insisted on safe sex and it was only when I asked her if she would consider going on to the pill that she told me.

Like Scouser, I've stuck by her, as as her family. One thing still gets me though and that's the medical opinions.

Well before I met her, her CD4 count had fallen to 40 - I've seen the paperwork. The last count was over 650. She gets the next result on the 16th Feb. Obviously, we're hoping for the best.

However, the local hospital, after much prompting from myself, assured us a viral load test was not necessary. "If CD4 is improving, viral load must be declining". Rubbish. So, we called the original hospital in BKK and spoke to the main doctor. He confirmed that viral load tests were imperative, but suggested that the local hospital didn't recommend it as it costs too much money.

What can you do to enlighten the sufferers when some of the medical profession are steering them clear of expensive treatment?

[Digger]

It's a long time since I've followed this thread, but I  should have done.

The girl I referred to a couple of  months ago is actually a lot closer to me than the post would suggest.

I'm no doctor, but I've certainly done a bit of research into hiv since she told me her status  7 months ago.  She always insisted on safe sex and it was only when I asked her if she would consider going on to the pill that she told me.

Like Scouser, I've stuck by her, as as her family. One thing still gets me though and that's the medical opinions.

Well before I met her, her CD4 count had fallen to 40 - I've seen the paperwork. The last count was over 650. She gets the next result on the 16th Feb. Obviously, we're hoping for the best.

However, the local hospital, after much prompting from myself, assured us a viral load test was not necessary. "If CD4 is improving, viral load must be declining". Rubbish. So, we called the original hospital in BKK and spoke to the main doctor. He confirmed that viral load tests were imperative, but suggested that the local hospital didn't recommend it as it costs too much money.

What can you do to enlighten the sufferers when some of the medical profession are steering them clear of expensive treatment?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From what I can see of your post, they are not steering her clear of expensive treatment, but avoiding the expensive test that either confirms or denies the effectiveness of the medicine in getting the patient to an undetectable viral load. However, assuming they did a viral load test and the result was not what you wanted to hear, what would you do? Offer to pay for another course of medicine? Perhaps 10-15,000 baht a month for the next 30 years ! If her CD4 is over 650, she has what is considered as a near normal level of immune function - even if her Viral load was not undetectable, not many doctors would take her off whatever medicine she is on with that kind of rebound in CD4 levels. Why dont you offer to pay for a annual Viral load test if your so concerned - its better than nothing and would cost about 4,000 baht in a private hospital, less in a Govt hospital but not much. But that really is an outstanding result regardless of viral load - Also the point about the viral load from your local hospital is not completely incorrect - even with a detectable viral load, unlikely any damage is being done with that kind of CD4 count so long as it continues to rise. Once it starts falling (and also looking at the CD4% is a better example than absolute CD4 count), then you should be concerned - albeit only slightly - providing she is taking medicine 95%+ on time and correctly, the odds of resistance and thus decline in CD4 (increase in viral load) is very small on 3 drug combinations.

Edited February 7, 2005 by Digger

[ProThaiExpat]

It's a long time since I've followed this thread, but I  should have done.

The girl I referred to a couple of  months ago is actually a lot closer to me than the post would suggest.

I'm no doctor, but I've certainly done a bit of research into hiv since she told me her status  7 months ago.  She always insisted on safe sex and it was only when I asked her if she would consider going on to the pill that she told me.

Like Scouser, I've stuck by her, as as her family. One thing still gets me though and that's the medical opinions.

Well before I met her, her CD4 count had fallen to 40 - I've seen the paperwork. The last count was over 650. She gets the next result on the 16th Feb. Obviously, we're hoping for the best.

However, the local hospital, after much prompting from myself, assured us a viral load test was not necessary. "If CD4 is improving, viral load must be declining". Rubbish. So, we called the original hospital in BKK and spoke to the main doctor. He confirmed that viral load tests were imperative, but suggested that the local hospital didn't recommend it as it costs too much money.

What can you do to enlighten the sufferers when some of the medical profession are steering them clear of expensive treatment?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From what I can see of your post, they are not steering her clear of expensive treatment, but avoiding the expensive test that either confirms or denies the effectiveness of the medicine in getting the patient to an undetectable viral load. However, assuming they did a viral load test and the result was not what you wanted to hear, what would you do? Offer to pay for another course of medicine? Perhaps 10-15,000 baht a month for the next 30 years ! If her CD4 is over 650, she has what is considered as a near normal level of immune function - even if her Viral load was not undetectable, not many doctors would take her off whatever medicine she is on with that kind of rebound in CD4 levels. Why dont you offer to pay for a annual Viral load test if your so concerned - its better than nothing and would cost about 4,000 baht in a private hospital, less in a Govt hospital but not much. But that really is an outstanding result regardless of viral load - Also the point about the viral load from your local hospital is not completely incorrect - even with a detectable viral load, unlikely any damage is being done with that kind of CD4 count so long as it continues to rise. Once it starts falling (and also looking at the CD4% is a better example than absolute CD4 count), then you should be concerned - albeit only slightly - providing she is taking medicine 95%+ on time and correctly, the odds of resistance and thus decline in CD4 (increase in viral load) is very small on 3 drug combinations.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Spot on Digger!!

Coming from a westrn culture where doctors use lab tests as a "scientific" method of diagnosis, disregarding common sense, I have taken so many blood tests that were negative in my life that they easily could be in the millions.

Cholesterol is one of my pet peeves. Mine has been rock solid at 220 for thirty years, usually causing physicians to comment that it is "borderline high" and I should try to get it down through diet. When I reply "what about the HDL componets vs. the LDL component the comment is then "well your HDL is such a high component of your test reading and the LDL is so low, your really quite healthy"!!

I am not sure about this, but there very well may be a stong link between viral load and cd-4 readings, so when cd4 is high, viral loads may very well be always low.

Knowledge is power!!! Those of us who have known or do know hiv positive people, owe it to them, and ourselfves, to be knowledgeable, so we can support them wisely as our humanity requires.

[sua yai]

Thanks for that info. We'll wait until the results of the CD4 count on the 16th Feb and make a decision then.

[Digger]

My comment was really more aimed at what are the alternatives if the viral load was NOT undetectable. Under the Thai healthcare system and pretty much any healthcare system, that is very limited in resources, not sure how they would justify changing medicine in a seemingly well person, thereby potentially denying another 10 patients any treatment just to fund a different type of medicine to achieve the desired U/D viral load. Many of the newest HIV medicines are either not available in Thailand or are very expensive (as Thailand is not considered one of the worlds 70 odd poorest nations) - not a nice choice to have to make but reality anyway. The other option is to supplement it with private income and pay for viral load tests and additional medicine if the 30 baht scheme one is not working as well as some others could, but its a big price to pay.

I know that the doctor that treats my friend, only does viral loads now every 6 months, whereas in the west its typically every 3 months - but of course, doctors in the west are invariably not having to be mindfull of how the patient is going to be able to afford the costs of tests and treatment as either central governments or insurance companies are picking up the bills.

[sua yai]

The thing is that in 4 years, she's never had a viral load test.

Also, it's been mentioned on this thread that people are taking three medicines a day. She only takes one, twice a day, and is religious about the times.

I don't mind forking out for a viral load test. It would put my mind at rest, one way or the other, as long as I can persuade her that it's necessary.

Is it?

[Digger]

The thing is that in 4 years, she's never had a viral load test.

Also, it's been mentioned on this thread that people are taking three medicines a day. She only takes one, twice a day, and is religious about the times.

I don't mind forking out for a viral load test. It would put my mind at rest, one way or the other, as long as I can persuade her that it's necessary.

Is it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dont worry - Odds are if she is on the 30 baht health scheme as you say, she is taking GPO-VIR a Thai generic copy of THREE HIV drugs combined into one pill for easy dosing. The 3 drugs are Nevarapine (Very good), DDI (Effective, but old and causes body fat wasting in many patients) and Stavudine (Old and not really used too much in the west anymore). Odds are, this combination will be completely suppressing her viral load - they are highly proven drugs. They have been surpassed by newer medicines in the west (except Nevarapine which is still considered first line drug and very effective) as newer drugs have less complications, but at a price in terms of how affordable they are. Odds are her viral load is at a undetectable level or hovering around that level IF her adherance is near perfect. FYI, other low cost options would involve a lot more pills per day and not be anywhere near as cheap, as this is the only generic multi drug combination readilly available in Thailand. There is a copy of Combivir which is AZT and Lamivudine which is one pill twice a day but she would still have to take seperate Nevarapine tablet twice a day - together your looking at around 5,000 baht per month for this combination. The biggest risk from the combination she is on is the body fat wasting, which can make her face look very gaunt around the cheek bones (similar to the Joker in batman movies) but it does not affect everyone.

If you want a second opinion and viral load test you could take her to see Doctor Mattana at Bumrungrad who is one of Thailands top specialists HIV doctors and VERY GOOD. Might be worth it for peace of mind. Book early and be prepared to wait as she over runs every appointment as she is so thorough. Every HIV specialist knows her as she has taught most of them at Chula medical school where she is one of the foremost HIV experts/teachers in Thailand. She will want to do a viral load test as well as complete blood count tests and various other tests to assess overall wellbeing of the patient such as anemia, lippids etc but its probably worth it as a one off and then repeating it every year. All in all expect to spend about 8,000 baht on tests and consultation fee's if you go and see her.

I have never encountered another doctor in Thailand quite so patient focused as this one and she takes a genuine interest in every patients well being - she certainly does not apply the cookie cutter approach. She will also remember things about your friend and ask her about them on follow up visits - such as if your friend is studying, she will ask how the course is going(and remembering what she is studying), or if working, how is business in whichever industry - god only knows how she remembers but she does - she even remembers what I do and I am not even one of her patients - for 2 minutes she quizzes me about my industry (the cynic in me thinks its because she's ensuring the money pipeline remains open for my friends medicine, but I really do think she is absolutely genuine and interested) - she also has an amazing ability to motivate her patients - encourage them to get over small problems and focus on the big picture of staying healthy. My friend has never touched a drop of alchohol since she told her to stop drinking to protect her liver. Ask your friend to check with her normal doctor is he or she has heard of her - odds are they will have and they will confirm she is one of the best specialists in Thailand.

[slimdog]

Hi Sua Yai

Generally viral load tests are taken frequently during the initial period of medication to ensure the meds are working, after this less frequently 3 -6 months. As 4 years have passed since medication was started and her cd4 count has risen to "Normal Range" (623 - 1223), it's fair to say that she is responding well to the medication that she is on.

In private hospitals, it is normal also to do other tests once hiv has been detected normally std's and hep A,B & C, as these are all transmitted in the same way, but are generally considered easier to pass on. Maybe worth asking if she was tested for any of these.

Another medication which is frequently prescribed is fluconazole (anti-fungal),made locally under licence by Siam pharmaceuticals so not expensive.

Maybe worthwhile having a chat and general check-up with a specialist doctor,and see what they recommend. If you travel to Bangkok for a check-up,remember viral load tests can take up to a week to get the results back.

[sua yai]

That's loads of information to digest. Thanks.

The GPO-VIR is what she's taking.

I suppose one of the things is to give people confidence, despite the circumstances. That's all I can do.

[Digger]

That's loads of information to digest. Thanks.

The GPO-VIR is what she's taking.

I suppose one of the things is to give people confidence, despite the circumstances. That's all I can do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can also advise her that with medicine, people have been living for 18 years on treatments and specialists are now forcasting a near normal life expectancy for those people that take medicines correctly, on time and do not abuse their bodies through drugs, alchohol and tobacco - all of which will reduce boldily functions that could fight against opportunistic infections, cancers, liver disease, heart disease etc. That single statement from my friends doctor made her look upon this disease as an inconvenience to life, not simply a way to delay the inevitable death which is how Thai's so often look upon HIV illness. Confidence, support and motivation is truly one of the best things you can do for her and from a personal standpoint, I find it highly satisfying.

[BrissyBoy]

I have found some sobering statistics, compliled in an EU report for 2001 and released in 2002. See here AEGIS report

They are a little old but still quite scary as the problem would have only gotten worse.

It states that the infection rate is about 1.8% of total population or 1 in 55.

So if people don't play safe then it is more a case of when not if.

[waldwolf]

I find it very distressing, when I hear people (including knowledgeable medical professionals) say things like, "When we find a cure for HIV/AIDS............"

First, no one has yet found a "cure" for any viral infection, including the common cold. Not one.

Second, the virus(s) responsible for HIV mutate very rapidly, making it extremely difficult for researchers to find a vaccine that could protect uninfected individuals. (Remember, a vaccine is a preventative, not a cure, and even then not 100% effective.) The following excerpt from a newspaper article makes this point:

Rare and Aggressive H.I.V. Reported in New York

New York Times - February 12, 2005

A rare strain of H.I.V. that is highly resistant to virtually all anti-retroviral drugs and appears to lead to the rapid onset of AIDS [in as little as 3 months] was detected in a New York City man last week, city health officials announced on Friday.

It was the first time a strain of H.I.V. had been found that both showed resistance to multiple drugs and led to AIDS so quickly, the officials said. While the extent of the disease's spread is unknown, officials called a news conference to say that the situation is alarming.

Thus far, education appears to be the best preventative.

[Dickie]

It always happens. Diseases have a tendency to evolve/mutate and the animals deal with them or die. There are people who are immune to HIV, as research in Africa has shown or, at least, mooted. There could well be millions of people out there who are immune to it but you will never know because they weren't confirmed as having contracted the contagion and have beaten it before it can be detected.

It's not a nice thing to have but it won't end the human race.

[Dickie]

I also think there will always be killer viri and it is probably built into Nature's design to stop the world overpopulating in every species. Maybe there are too many chickens right now? Hence the bird or chicken viri. Nature must keep a 'balance' somehow, it may be viri that control the natural food chain? They definitely are there for some 'natural' purpose.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm more inclined to the view that too much of the same animal in one area means a virus that can kill one will have a lot of 'food' available and will cause carnage. Too many chickens in one area and you have a mass outbreak of bird flu. When the plague hit Europe in the 14th century it wiped out half of the population. The other half weren't immune but, after the disease had exacted its toll there were far fewer chances to come into contact with it, hence it petered out. Things balance not because of some (cosmic?) design but simply due to how things are.

[sua yai]

I've been out of circulation for a bit - in hospital following a motorcycle accident. The CD4 count came through, as expected on the 16th and it was 630.

The chronology goes as follows :

CD4 count 390 when first diagnosed 4 years ago.

Dropped to 40 three years ago and medication started.

Since then, the counts have progressed, 207, 375, 650 (6 months ago) 630 the latest.

Naturally, we're really happy. The medication continues to work.

[poolcleaner]

From Stickman's interview with Boss Hog

A lot of guys are worried / paranoid about STDs and AIDS.

There was one girl in all of my thousands, that I have a feeling she contracted AIDS.  She did end up dying.

AIDS?

Not sure, but my guess is AIDS.  She worked at Lucky Luke's in 2000 when I took the bar over.  She worked maybe a week or two and then she was gone.  Someone said she was sick.  She came back about 4 or 5 months later and asked if she could have a job bartending.  She'd lost a lot of weight.  It just didn't seem to be drugs.  Again, she was a nice girl.  I gave her the job, it lasted about two weeks and she would not show up some days.  She looked worse and worse and worse.  The cover up story was that she had swallowed drain cleaner trying to kill herself and I just had to let her go...  She died maybe a couple of months later.  That is the only girl I can only tie AIDS too.  I am not 100% positive.  My guess is that she had AIDS.  I have known other girls 10 – 12 years and we just don't see it.  The times we have had girls tested in mass we have never had a positive.

I know for a fact that a lot of my friends have at times not used condoms.  Even in talk around the bars I have never heard someone say they had caught something.  I don’t want to say it doesn’t exist, but I have no knowledge.  Wasn't it Trink who used to say it was propaganda?  Perhaps I agree.  I have not heard anyone talk about it.

Perhaps the other side of the coin.

Not that it's a pet topic of mine when I meet people here but whenever it's been raised I can't recall too many reliable reports of folks dying of AIDS (bargirls in particular).

It makes me wonder...................................

Edited March 4, 2005 by poolcleaner

[otherstuff1957]

Here are some stats for Thailand that I copied from a UK website:

***

Thailand

700,000 people were believed to be living with HIV/AIDS at the end of 2001, or 2.15% of the adult population.

The main route of transmission is heterosexual sex. It is currently thought that more than half of all new cases are occurring through transmission within marriage.

There is evidence of continuing transmission associated with injecting drug use, which was very important in the early establishment of HIV in Thailand. In contrast to the pattern seen with blood-borne infections in North America and Western Europe, where sexual transmission and injecting drug use transmission seem to be remarkably separate, there has been a shift in Thailand from a dominance of subtype B virus among IDUs to a dominance of 'subtype E', matching the strain that is most commonly transmitted through sex.

Recent reports suggest that the main modes of transmission may be changing. Whereas most HIV transmission in the 1990s occurred through commercial sex, half the new HIV infections now appear to be occurring among the wives and sexual partners of men who were infected several years ago. There are also indications that unsafe sexual behaviour is on the increase among young people in Thailand

***

They don't mention it here, but elsewhere I've read that about 2/3 of the victims are male and 1/3 are female.

No one I know in Thailand has admitted to having HIV and none of my wife's family has fallen ill or died from it yet, but given the numbers it's just a matter of time. I did have friends in the US who contracted HIV, progressed to Aids and have long since died. That was back in the '80's and I lived near San Francisco, so it isn't too surprising that people (mostly gay men) I knew were dying.

Before I got married I was getting tested about once a year. My wife and I both tested negative when we first started seeing each other.

It's interesting to see people mention being circumcised or not being a risk factor. In the US there's a powerful "anti-circumcision lobby" that claims it's mutilation that traumatizes little baby boys. Consequently, circumcision as a risk factor is rarely mentioned in the US media.

[skycop51]

You know its not worth a screw. Cause you get screwed forever. Is that worth it for you? In my day it was just the clap. Now you got troubles real worries. Good Luck...is all I say.

skycop

It sure is a major problem. Two girls in my wife's village of 300 or 400 people have returned from Pattaya with full blown Aids in the last 18 months. Both are now dead. One from Pneumonia the other (who was also pregnant) took her own life.

Everyone should be aware of the problem and take care.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[sbaker8688]

This is truly terrifying. I suppose I'm like every other healthy red-blooded male who has had a fair number of women attracted to him over the years - I've had lots of unprotected sex (although protected as well). I've never used drugs of any type though, and never will.

My question is - does one usually acquire any symptoms shortly after acquiring HIV/AIDS? And if so, what are they?

If you said "yes you usually get symptoms within a few months or a year, and these are the symptoms" I'd be less concerned, because I seem to be just fine. If you said "many go without symptoms for years and years" I suppose that would be cause for alarm and concern.

Thanks.

[pyros]

This is truly terrifying.  I suppose I'm like every other healthy red-blooded male who has had a fair number of women attracted to him over the years - I've had lots of unprotected sex (although protected as well).  I've never used drugs of any type though, and never will.

My question is - does one usually acquire any symptoms shortly after acquiring HIV/AIDS?  And if so, what are they?

If you said "yes you usually get symptoms within a few months or a year, and these are the symptoms" I'd be less concerned, because I seem to be just fine.  If you said "many go without symptoms for years and years" I suppose that would be cause for alarm and concern.

Thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As far as i got it from a website about AIDS they stated it 20% ( or something like that , i forgot ) , get symptoms 1 to 2 weeks after infection . The symptoms are equal as with flu ( just like any viral infection ) , but go away after a few days . After that , you don't have a lot of problems , as far as i remember and i've seen . So you can easily live with HIV infection for year's without knowing it . The problem's after that , well these ones i know because i know somebody who just 2 weeks before died of HIV . She was living without problems whatsoever , and then the weight loss kick's in . The weightloss is very big but because it goes over a period of 1 year or so , it isn't really in your face ( look at pictures or something like that , or somebody tell you ) , but still feeling fine . About 7 month's ago she started having flu symptom's , not stopping after a few days . After that the weight loss got a lot bigger and AIDS was really getting her . I saw temp card's of her about 6 months ago and it was going from 40°c to 33°c in 1 hour and back . Let's say , from then on , it wasn't getting better anymore , some days reasonable next days worse until she died .

[wilson steer]

Living in Pattaya I see and hear a lot of AIDS stories.

The saddest thing is the fact that many bar girls will have unprotected sex with farangs for extra money, or else if he 'keeps' her for the length of his holiday.

Equally sad was a farang Liverpudlian, who sent money to his bar girl girlfriend while she carried on a relation ship with her Thai boyfriend. He is now HIV positive.

Another terrible situation is a bargirl relation of my girlfriend who continues a steady relationship with a farang, whilst she is HIV positive. I wonder if she suggests the use of condoms, or is too scared in case the farang boyfriend gets suspicious?

My theory is that, if the bar girls have additional Thai boyfriends then HIV risk is much increased. That falang on a two week dream holiday, might go back to his home country HIV positive, unknown to himself, and spread it around for several years. This is the real horror of AIDS.

Wilson Steer.

[Pepe']

The doctor even says that once it fades to almost zero I can return to my previous practice of doing unspeakable things to her without protection.

Scouser youve got my admiration for sticking by your wife...........but surely the above would be folly?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The doctor who told you to have unprotected sex should have his license revoked...

[meadish_sweetball]

From Stickman's interview with Boss Hog

A lot of guys are worried / paranoid about STDs and AIDS.

There was one girl in all of my thousands, that I have a feeling she contracted AIDS.  She did end up dying.

AIDS?

Not sure, but my guess is AIDS.  She worked at Lucky Luke's in 2000 when I took the bar over.  She worked maybe a week or two and then she was gone.  Someone said she was sick.  She came back about 4 or 5 months later and asked if she could have a job bartending.  She'd lost a lot of weight.  It just didn't seem to be drugs.  Again, she was a nice girl.  I gave her the job, it lasted about two weeks and she would not show up some days.  She looked worse and worse and worse.  The cover up story was that she had swallowed drain cleaner trying to kill herself and I just had to let her go...  She died maybe a couple of months later.  That is the only girl I can only tie AIDS too.  I am not 100% positive.  My guess is that she had AIDS.  I have known other girls 10 – 12 years and we just don't see it.  The times we have had girls tested in mass we have never had a positive.

I know for a fact that a lot of my friends have at times not used condoms.  Even in talk around the bars I have never heard someone say they had caught something.  I don’t want to say it doesn’t exist, but I have no knowledge.  Wasn't it Trink who used to say it was propaganda?  Perhaps I agree.  I have not heard anyone talk about it.

Perhaps the other side of the coin.

Not that it's a pet topic of mine when I meet people here but whenever it's been raised I can't recall too many reliable reports of folks dying of AIDS (bargirls in particular).

It makes me wonder...................................

That's simply because it is very much a taboo subject in Thailand. Also, infected people tend to go back to their families in the North and Northeast to die a quiet death. The current number of orphans in Thailand due to AIDS is approaching 300.000 according to Save the Children's estimates.

[Pepe']

Living in Pattaya I see and hear a lot of AIDS stories.

The saddest thing is the fact that many bar girls will have unprotected sex with farangs for extra money, or else if he 'keeps' her for the length of his holiday.

Equally sad was a farang Liverpudlian, who sent money to his bar girl girlfriend while she carried on a relation ship with her Thai boyfriend. He is now HIV positive.

Another terrible situation is a bargirl relation of my girlfriend who continues a steady relationship with a farang, whilst she is HIV positive. I wonder if she suggests the use of condoms, or is too scared in case the farang boyfriend gets suspicious?

My theory is that, if the bar girls have additional Thai boyfriends then HIV risk is much increased. That falang on a two week dream holiday, might go back to his home country HIV positive, unknown to himself, and spread it around for several years. This is the real horror of AIDS.

Wilson Steer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Horror. You chose the right word. I have volunteered on and off for years caring for AIDS patients.

There is never too much discussion on this topic...

[Sully]

God bless you Scouse. The world needs more "men" like you. Hang in there because you never know what modern medicine will develop in the not so distant future. Best Wishes to you and you're wife.

Sully

[CrossBones]

Does having more sexual partners significantly increase the likely hood of a straight man catching HIV?

For the sake of arguement lets dare to assume that the risk of contracting HIV per exposure with an HIV infected woman without condom use is 1%.

And say the risk of a woman catching from a man is 5%

And say one in 10 people I have sex with has HIV (sake of arguement)

I am a man and I don't know who has HIV.

If I have sex with one woman frequently of unknown HIV status every time the chances 1 in 10 (10 percent) of 1% - so 0.1% chance of contracting HIV from this woman every time I have sex with her (her HIV status is unknown, if it was known she has HIV it would be 1%)

Now the chances are the same for any women I have unprotected sex with? So the number of partners I have is irrenevant.

What is more relavant is the number of sexual partners she has - because that would put her in a higher risk category becuase it is easier for a woman to catch HIV from a man than vice versa.

Does this make any sense or is my maths totally wrong here?

[nick2k]

a long time ago, I had a heated debate with someone about HIV. he started a string saying that over 80% of the thai military in northern thailand were HIV positive. I asked him where he heard this. he said he read it in the newspaper back in 1991 or thereabouts. this heated discussion I had with the guy was back in 1998 or 1999. anyway, I replied to his story by saying, I didn't believe the story was true. he replied why? I said if it were true, then, there must be a lot of the thai military dying right now, right?

after the heated debate I had with the guy, I started to wonder who these people are who writes these article for the media. whenever I found a name (author) associated with an article on HIV, I would do a a search on a search engine with the name to see if I could find any info on the guy. get this, many times I would find someone with this name associated with some "religious (christian) organization".

nowadays, when you read a newspaper article on HIV, see if you can see an author's name associated with it. many don't.

there are many people in this world who are so opinionated that they can't tolerate other people's point of view. they are willing to lie to get you to adhere to their beliefs.

...many will kill you to get you to follow their "ways".

[Flysiam]

a long time ago, I had a heated debate with someone about HIV.  he started a string saying that over 80% of the thai military in northern thailand were HIV positive.  I asked him where he heard this.  he said he read it in the newspaper back in 1991 or thereabouts.  this heated discussion I had with the guy was back in 1998 or 1999.  anyway, I replied to his story by saying, I didn't believe the story was true.  he replied why?  I said if it were true, then, there must be a lot of the thai military dying right now, right?

after the heated debate I had with the guy, I started to wonder who these people are who writes these article for the media.  whenever I found a name (author) associated with an article on HIV, I would do a a search on a search engine with the name to see if I could find any info on the guy.  get this, many times I would find someone with this name associated with some "religious (christian) organization".

nowadays, when you read a newspaper article on HIV, see if you can see an author's name associated with it.  many don't. 

there are many people in this world who are so opinionated that they can't tolerate other people's point of view.  they are willing to lie to get you to adhere to their beliefs. 

...many will kill you to get you to follow their "ways".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is no doubt in any ones mind (well maybe except for one) that the story of so many military men with HIV is far fetched. I am not sure however that this is a religion based scare tactic. Truly the christain world would love to quash the spread of HIV and the associated sexual promiscuity - but if these yahoos are the only ones attempting to wake the world up to the horrors of HIV then they can't be all bad. I may not subscribe to their beliefs or their methods but someone should be teaching the people to not play russian roulette. Whether it is one in a hundred or one in 50 or one in a thousand - the game and its rules are the same. Protect yourself.