Pollution In Chiang Rai

[flying]

How is it today?

We actually have a pretty nice day here in CM today.

Blue sky even

[Rasseru]

My solution is to take a Vacation South.

Allow me to recommend Chiangmai.

[mcgriffith]

We just need one good rain.

Rasseru, in your previous incarnation as an Indian Chief (lead singer in the Village People) you were very successful in cloud seeding.

Could you possibly do the chant- I think it goes something like this;

Humm Yaa Yaa Yaa

Humm Yaa Yaa Yaa...(etc).

Don't forget the feather head dress, and the eagle bone breast piece.

[sceadugenga]

I think all the Village People moved to Chiang Mai.

[svenivan]

Visibility according to the Thai Meteorological Department:

Chiang Rai 1 km

Chiang Mai 3 km

Mae Hong Son 1 km

Lamphun 0 km (was 1 km yesterday)

Phayao 3 km

Phrae 1 km

Phitsanulok 7 km

Nong Khai 3 km

Udon Thani 6 km

Khon Kaen 9 km

Kalasin 8 km

Bangkok 12 km

Chonburi 10 km

Rayong 8 km

Pattaya 12 km

The Thai people up here in north are burning the hills and the mountains.

Going south this time of the year two years ago it were fires all the way down to Chaiyaphum, every km I could see a fire or it was totally black of soot from fires.

About a month ago, one of the Royal princesses stayed in Doi Tung for 4 days. The police were out everywhere and told the people that if they started a fire during this time they would be fined 50 000 baht !

There was not on fire during these 4 days. But after it went back to normal again.

[lannaman]

Visibility according to the Thai Meteorological Department:

Chiang Rai 1 km

Chiang Mai 3 km

Mae Hong Son 1 km

Lamphun 0 km (was 1 km yesterday)

Phayao 3 km

Phrae 1 km

Phitsanulok 7 km

Nong Khai 3 km

Udon Thani 6 km

Khon Kaen 9 km

Kalasin 8 km

Bangkok 12 km

Chonburi 10 km

Rayong 8 km

Pattaya 12 km

The Thai people up here in north are burning the hills and the mountains.

Going south this time of the year two years ago it were fires all the way down to Chaiyaphum, every km I could see a fire or it was totally black of soot from fires.

About a month ago, one of the Royal princesses stayed in Doi Tung for 4 days. The police were out everywhere and told the people that if they started a fire during this time they would be fined 50 000 baht !

There was not on fire during these 4 days. But after it went back to normal again.

Why the h--- can't they do that all the time! They'd get more income than helmet checks, i suppose it would be too much like hard work.

Looking out of my window towards the city, I should say 1 km visability is about spot on.

[IraqRon]

I was told by my wife in CR how bad the smoke and heat is now and this saddens me. Do you think that it is only the rice fields and lower hills being burned or are the Hill tribes contributing by burning huge tracts of land?

Surely a lot of the smoke and haze comes from Laos and Burma as well. Maybe more than from areas within CR province itself.

I remember that in the late summer down southern Thailand, the smoke from Indonesian and Malaysian burning made its way north and obscured the aire there in Krabi.

How do you tell people they can't clear the land for growing food to feed themselves? "Hey sorry, but you and your family will just have to starve, we can't have any burning now"?

Alternatives must be found and offered/mandated to solve this problem. Surely among the fine minds on this site, the solution(s) can be developed.

PS: the Hill Tribe comment was meant to prick some hides and get the debate going, I couldn' resist.!!!

On a side note, how much carbon is released into the atmosphere by this practice of open burning?? Not to mention the toxic and noxious chemicals from plastics, etc. being burned?

Didn't mean to preach, just venting some thoughts.

[sceadugenga]

I suspect a good deal of it drifts down from China, Ron. It appears there is a large high pressure system over the region this time of the year and very little air movement so it just sits here.

Probably the Chinese burning their nuclear waste.

[jubby]

The wind picked up today and from the north. The local produced smoke was moving away nicely rather than just hanging there. Maybe its just my imagination but the mountains appear a bit clearer too. This would lead me to think that maybe the majority of the smoke is coming from a southerly direction.

[IraqRon]

I have an idea that could mitigate some of the need for burning to clear the growth for planting.

The Govt could start a new program that buys a goat for each family that wishes one as long as they pledge to use it to clear the undergrowth that would otherwise be burnt.

The goat could also be used for milk and when appropriate could be eaten. I actually like the taste of Carbrito myself. The Muslim folks eat it as well I understand. Don't laugh, the goat biz is actually quite large now in Texas, grazing and controling the weed, cactus, mountain cedars, that sort of thing, in the hill country where the food for cattle is meager.

Goats are also used to produce milk which is used in the production of lines of proteins, etc in the production of medicines, etc. Could be a possible byproduct here in Thailand too. There are actually folks that have goat herds that they rent out for clearing fields, etc.

Of course the goats would have to be purchased from a facility under the control of the PM's cousin or some supporter of his party, but what the hey, TIT,

I have seen one herd north east of CR off the road that goes along the river and ends up below Ban Lao.

[villagefarang]

I have seen one herd north east of CR off the road that goes along the river and ends up below Ban Lao.

The first time I had to slow down and drive through that herd was an eye opener for me. When they get mixed in with the cows and water-buffalo, it makes for an interesting traffic jam. You don't see too many weeds around there.

[mcgriffith]

Interesting idea, IraqRon.

[Priceless]

I agree that Bangkok Smog is better than Chiang Rai Smog. At least in Bangkok, you get your smog 365.25 days of the year. Too bad in Chiang Rai, we only have to suffer through this madness for 2 to 3 months. Tsk tsk...

Ha ha, but Bangkok has safe air year round. Chiang Rai presently has the worst air in all of Thailand. The brown haze is plainly visible from the photo above and indeed the air quality does not meet safety guidelines. The Air Quality Index (AQI) for Bangkok is in the 20's-40's today. The Chiang Rai AQI is 168. The standard is 100. It is unbelievable to me that this burning is not just tolerated, but also contributed to by national parks. Provinces AQI snapshot from today:

For more data: http://www.pcd.go.th/AirQuality/Regional/Default.cfm

There are actually two Thai standards for "safe" levels of PM<10 air pollution:

24-hour average: 120 µg/m³

Yearly average: 50 µg/m³

Since 2000, the Din Daeng area in Bangkok has had an average of 29.4 days/year in excess of the 24-hour limit. I haven't got the corresponding number for Chiang Rai, but for Chiang Mai it is 15.1

The yearly average for Din Daeng can be seen from this graph:

As you can see, the last calendar year with an average pollution level within the recommended limit was 2002!

This is not to say that the air in Northern Thailand at the moment isn't grotty, it sure is

/ Priceless

[Limbo]

Surely a lot of the smoke and haze comes from Laos and Burma as well. Maybe more than from areas within CR province itself.

During the last days the air in Mae Sai/Tachilek has been much better than in Chiang Rai.

I was happily surprised to be able to breath almost normally.

Maybe the gratuitous blame on Burma feeds the myth that one can't do anything about it,

thus enabling the authorities concerned to turn a blind eye on the problem.

In Thailand you can blame everything on the Burmese and people will blindly accept

any explanation that points in that direction.

In Bangkok they are laughing about it. Two years ago, when it was even worse than now,

the health ministry suggested that the people of the North should not cook on charcoal or BBQ.

That would solve the problem.

The big landowners in this area are mostly from Bangkok or are at least living there.

To maintain their lands they hire often people from the ethnic minorities who for a handfull of Baht

do the burning for them.

The roadsides are burnt by fire brigades acting on behalve of the road department.

The fires in the National Parks probably by officials of the Forestry Department.

Somebody told me that last year His Majesty intervened whit the result that the air was surprisingly

better than this year and the year before.

Of course the problem can be solved, at least technically. I am sure that there are specialists who know

how to tackle the problem. The real obstacle might be the weakness of the organisational structure: the

problem of Thai politics and its interwovenness with the substandard of the responsable authorities.

What can be done in Malaysia and Singapore, cannot be done in Thailand yet, but I am sure that the

improvements made and those in the process of being made in general education in ten years from now

will start to show results.

It may yet take another generation but one day in the future the old people of Chiang Rai, many of them

connected to oxygen bottles, will inbetween the wheesing tell their grandchildren that there was once a time

in Chiang Rai when you couldn't see further than 500 to 1000 meter and the hospitals were filled with people

suffering from respiratory illnesses.

Limbo

[Limbo]

Isn't the lorry with the big watertank lovely?

For those from elsewhere: an old lorry with a six to eight thousand liter tank fills up at the water department

next to the Mae Fah Luang Bridge and then goes into town and sprays the water under big pressure vertically

up to about twenty meters, creating a refreshing rain for an area of maybe fifty square meters.

This mobile local rain moves through the main streets of the town.

Look at the faces of the people when it passes. Everybody seems to be happy that something is done and it

is actually refreshing.

Though symbolic concerning its effectiveness at least it gives hope!

Big signs hanging on both sides of the watertank create an awareness among those who suffer of it about

the horror of burning nature. This in case their burning eyes and throats didn't do this already.

But it is nice. It might be the first step, necessarily a small one, out of a series to come. Somewhere in the town

hall there are civil servants who see the problem and our Mayor, by approving this activity, shows engagement

concerning our problems.

Thanks Mayor. thanks civil servants and special thanks to the little guy sitting on top of the tank, taking care

that the strong water beam doesn't take out the street lanterns. You are all doing great!

Hope, my dear friends, hope!

There is light at the end of the tunnel!

Limbo

[villagefarang]

My newly polished truck just narrowly avoided being sprayed by one of your lovely lorries, in Chiang Rai the other day. I tried to explain to my incredulous wife, that they thought they were cleaning the air. She was sure I was underestimating the intelligence of her people .

[sceadugenga]

They're probably practicing for Songkran.

[Priceless]

Surely a lot of the smoke and haze comes from Laos and Burma as well. Maybe more than from areas within CR province itself.

During the last days the air in Mae Sai/Tachilek has been much better than in Chiang Rai.

I was happily surprised to be able to breath almost normally.

Maybe the gratuitous blame on Burma feeds the myth that one can't do anything about it,

thus enabling the authorities concerned to turn a blind eye on the problem.

In Thailand you can blame everything on the Burmese and people will blindly accept

any explanation that points in that direction.

In Bangkok they are laughing about it. Two years ago, when it was even worse than now,

the health ministry suggested that the people of the North should not cook on charcoal or BBQ.

That would solve the problem.

The big landowners in this area are mostly from Bangkok or are at least living there.

To maintain their lands they hire often people from the ethnic minorities who for a handfull of Baht

do the burning for them.

The roadsides are burnt by fire brigades acting on behalve of the road department.

The fires in the National Parks probably by officials of the Forestry Department.

Somebody told me that last year His Majesty intervened whit the result that the air was surprisingly

better than this year and the year before.

Of course the problem can be solved, at least technically. I am sure that there are specialists who know

how to tackle the problem. The real obstacle might be the weakness of the organisational structure: the

problem of Thai politics and its interwovenness with the substandard of the responsable authorities.

What can be done in Malaysia and Singapore, cannot be done in Thailand yet, but I am sure that the

improvements made and those in the process of being made in general education in ten years from now

will start to show results.

It may yet take another generation but one day in the future the old people of Chiang Rai, many of them

connected to oxygen bottles, will inbetween the wheesing tell their grandchildren that there was once a time

in Chiang Rai when you couldn't see further than 500 to 1000 meter and the hospitals were filled with people

suffering from respiratory illnesses.

Limbo

A lot of the fires actually are in Burma and Laos, as can be seen from this picture (source: http://maps.geog.umd.edu/website/Activefir...redMap=Thailand ):

This is not to say that the local Thais are not to blame, of course they are also contributing. Furthermore the local burning is, at least in the short run, the only that can be locally influenced

/ Priceless

[IraqRon]

Hi Limbo, I didn't intend to blame Burma and I agree that blaming others is an excuse to not take action yourself.

That picture, if accurate, shows that the burning is a widespread problem, and undoubtedly has deep seated roots in the necessities of life in the jungle so to speak. This is happening in central and south America too. Probably will end when most of the trees are gone, the sun can't penetrate the atmosphere anymore and a permanent "winter" sets in. That is, winter in the sense that plants won't grow, and oxygen falls below the level needed to support most life. But hey, we are carbon based life forms, as told on Startrek, so what's the problem.

But now on a more relevant subject, there is plenty of local burning to foul our air in CR. However, CR does sit in a sort of opened ended(south end) bowl or valley and when a thermal inversion remains over the area, the air is trapped here with no way to escape. Add a south wind to that bringing in more pollution and then the high altitude smoke from far away and we have what we are experiencing now. Rather, what you are experiencing as I am in a desert with sandstorms limiting visibility and airline flights at the present. LOL. Nasty stuff.

I do worry about my newborns health with the smoke in the air for sure.

[svenivan]

A lot of the fires actually are in Burma and Laos, as can be seen from this picture (source: http://maps.geog.umd.edu/website/Activefir...redMap=Thailand ):

This is not to say that the local Thais are not to blame, of course they are also contributing. Furthermore the local burning is, at least in the short run, the only that can be locally influenced

/ Priceless

Thanks for this very good link!

Western Burma and Eastern India seems to be absolutely worst.

If we have this bad visibility, how is it there? Can they see anything?

[Limbo]

Hi Limbo, I didn't intend to blame Burma and I agree that blaming others is an excuse to not take action yourself.

No, sorry Ron, I meant more in general the tendency to point fingers elsewhere.

You just pointed out the fact there are no borders in the air.

As a father I also would worry about my kids as they don't have buttons with which you can put them on half-speed.

You can't lock them in either for three weeks or more. Or tell them to breath less.

I was so surprised that Mae Sai / Tachilek was almost clear, that I realised that the smog wasn't partly coming from China and Burma as I expected.

I considered it as hopefull, because then the problem could be solved here, independent from the other countries of the 'economic quadrangle'.

I now understand that the explanation might be that Mae Sai isn't in the same 'bowl or valley' as you describe. It was windy when in Chiang Rai not even the smallest leaf moved. If I understand you right it could mean, that if the political will can be mobilised the problem could be solved, at least can be controlled by concentrating on the valley?

Where is the rain? It was promised.

Thanks for the map, Priceless!

Limbo

[IraqRon]

No to need to apologize Limbo, I didn't take it personally at all and I do agree with your statements.

I am not thinking that concentrating on our valley will solve the overall problem of the air polution in CR area, just too many other factors. Having said that, I can't help but feel, without imperical data, that tackling the problem locally would help at least some. However, as you said, the political will to do anything may not exist. People would need to be offered an alternative and those aren't free usually. But that is no reason for inaction really, just an excuse.

We have to begin somewhere and local action is what any of us in CR can do if we try. Waiting on the various governments to come up with plans and implementing those plans may take forever. It won't be just one big solution that does it, but perhaps hundreds of small, sustainable, and practicle solutions that add up to a large contribution.

Or do we wait till all the ice is melted before taking action, as one eminent British pol as stated.

[sceadugenga]

One good thing that's come of it, the nose picking fraternity are getting some spectacular trophies.

Err... so they tell me.

[Limbo]

One good thing that's come of it, the nose picking fraternity are getting some spectacular trophies.

Err... so they tell me.

Dear Scea!

I have really been trying, please believe me, to catch the deeper sence of your outpouring.

I failed!

In all humbleness I ask you to elaborate (as I think it might be in english).

I think that your answer might bring us all a little bit closer to the truth!

Sorry, in all friendliness!

Limbo

[sceadugenga]

May be some things are best left with as little elaboration as possible Limbo.

[jubby]

May be some things are best left with as little elaboration as possible Limbo.

If anything mine are a little disapointing of late. I guess the PM's are too small to make a difference out here in Phayamengrai.

Looks like the worst day yet to me today. The grey smokes got an almost green tint or is it my eyes . Hopefully There's some rain in it.

Can't complain about the heat though. There isn't any !

[jubby]

We've got a Thunder Storm. Rain not heavy but fingers crossed. Nice fresh Air tomorrow maybe.

[sceadugenga]

A short shower here as well.

[svenivan]

All the frogs within 5 km from our house are so happy after the little rain and all of them wants to be heard.

Bl**dy noicy!

I just checked the fires in SE-Asia and found out that it has changed quite dramatically the last couple of days.

This map is from last Saturday, 3 days ago.

And this one from today (very early morning!)

They have stopped the fires in northern Thailand and eastern Burma but started a lot in Laos, Cambodja and soutwest China.

Hopefully we will get a little bit better air and hopefull much more rain over the whole region!

BTW another good neighbour started a new fire last Sunday so now 100 % of our little farm is burned. So we don´t have to worry no more!

Red: Visibility in Chiang Rai 3 km ! That is 3 times better than last Saturday!

Edited March 17, 2009 by svenivan

[IraqRon]

All the frogs within 5 km from our house are so happy after the little rain and all of them wants to be heard.

Bl**dy noicy!

I just checked the fires in SE-Asia and found out that it has changed quite dramatically the last couple of days.

This map is from last Saturday, 3 days ago.

And this one from today (very early morning!)

They have stopped the fires in northern Thailand and eastern Burma but started a lot in Laos, Cambodja and soutwest China.

Hopefully we will get a little bit better air and hopefull much more rain over the whole region!

BTW another good neighbour started a new fire last Sunday so now 100 % of our little farm is burned. So we don´t have to worry no more!

Red: Visibility in Chiang Rai 3 km ! That is 3 times better than last Saturday!

Sven, fill us in on what happened to your farm!!! I remember you said that some trees got burned by careless neighbors, did all of it get destroyed? If so this is very sad and I a sorry to hear that happened.

In what general area is it?? Is it on a hillside or close to other farms??