Is Apple That Good...?

[Mumbo Jumbo]

The time has come and I have to buy a new desk top computer , my current one being 7 years old !!,( purchased second hand ) ive read that the best way would be to build one myself, but not having any friends who could advise / help me in the construction I now have to buy a " brand " computer . ive looked at the makes / specifications at my local IT mall, Acer and HP seem to have a good range. The Brands i don't know too much about are .. DELL and APPLE, all the forum comments about APPLE computers seem to be how wonderful they are...?

Can any one comment on buying a " brand " computer, and why APPLE computers seem to always get a good review..? , and is it possible to see DELL computers in a show room ..? My budget for my new machine is 40,000 Baht . Any comments or advice would be very welcome

Thanks .....

[ZOVOX]

The time has come and I have to buy a new desk top  computer , my current one being 7 years old !!,( purchased second hand )  ive read that the best way would be to build one myself, but not having any friends who could advise / help me in the construction I now have to buy a " brand " computer . ive looked at the makes  / specifications at my local IT mall, Acer and HP seem to have a good range. The Brands i don't know too much about are .. DELL and APPLE,  all the forum comments about APPLE computers seem to be how wonderful they are...?

Can any one comment on buying a " brand " computer, and why APPLE computers seem to always get a good review..? , and is it possible to see DELL computers in a show room ..?  My budget for my new machine is 40,000 Baht . Any comments or advice would be very welcome

                                                      Thanks  .....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wouldn't attempt to put together a computer unless you really know what you are doing, and it's not necessarily cheaper either. The extra you pay for a brand name computer is really for the after sales service and support, but you can get a good reliable computer by buying a machine with good brand name components. Apple machines get good reviews because they don't crash and are very reliable. Go to the IT mall and you'll get a decent machine for 40k.

[ZOVOX]

Just like to add, i wouldn't go for an apple machine because the software available is not as wide ranging as PCs, especially for games. But wouldn't mind one as a second computer !!

[Thaddeus]

Having worked for and around Apple for 20 years, I can honestly say that they are the best constructed and most innovative computer you can buy.

The new MiniMac looks very sweet Apple

It is worth thinking about all the software you have though, because it won't work on a Mac (unless you buy a Virtual Machine package like VirtualPC) ... mind you, you could replace all your software with Mac versions at Pantip for probably very little

(nice first post eh ..... Hi Boo )

[cdnvic]

I personally wouldn' t get another Dell. The hard drives in them suck. Loud, slow, and a real pain to do any servicing to. Dell does not have any repair shops so if something goes wrong you either fix it yourself and void the warrantee, or ship it back to Dell.

Apple are a decent computer, but to be honest, all users of computers who are not the leading operating system praise their own systems. There's still people using Amigas, or running OS2 and swearing by them. This may be true but Macs (Apple) just does not have the range of software that windows machines do, and for open source (linux, bsd, etc) there is a fairly steep learning curve, although one thing Thailand is good for I've found is that there's alot of new PCs out there with open source operating systems installed, with good graphical user interface (GUI), which is similar to the layout of windows or mac.

Macs and open source computers tend to be more secure (though the latter takes more work to secure), because they don't have the same numbers that windows does, and therefore don't attract the same amount of idiots targeting them.

As for Acer, I give them top marks, along with Fujitsu. HP gets a bad rating from me on service, and the last time I had one the software CDs that came with them didn't work. Also, their motherboards are built so that there's very little expansion you can do with them, except of course, buying a new one.

Personally, I'd find someone you trust to build it for you. The money you save can be put into gadgets.

You can never have too many of those.

cv

[Firefoxx]

Like stated above, the advantage of brand name computer is their after sales service, which is usually a bit better than a normal shop. However, their hardware quality can vary from model to model and they tend to use a lot of proprietary stuff such as cases and mainboards, which can make it hard to add aftermarket upgrades.

Apple is popular for it's style and ease of use. It's does some things very well. However, the software is limited and the price is comparatively high (even for the mini mac). If you're going into graphics/art desgin, then an Apple is usually one of the top choices. If not, go for a PC.

I second cdnvic's advice, and suggest that you get a friend with knowhow to build a computer for you. This way you can specify exactly what you want and end up with a machine that has a lot of room to grow.

40k baht can get you a P4 2.8, with 1GB ram, a nice motherboard, 200GB HDD, a 17" LCD, a DVD-writer, and a good 3D card.

[night_rider]

I'm writing this on a PC. I've built many PCs over the years running Windows and Linux from home machines to enterprise servers. But if I had the cash I'd own a Mac.

The argument's been made that the Mac has less applications than Windows. This is a common argument but it is neither true nor often applicable. People discount the fact that since the MacOS is built on BSD it can run a host of applications built for 'nix machines. Unix has been around a lot longer than windows and there's a great deal of software out there; much of it open source. The argument also breaks down when you look at the apps you use every day. You will find a Mac equivalent for Office, Outlook, web browsing, email, IM, P2P, etc, etc. The only place that this argument holds up in my opinion is for vertical applications like games that are cpu/graphics intensive. As previously stated for windows only apps that aren't stretching your machine can be run in emulation through Virtual PC. You should understand that you can run Windows on a Mac or vice versa through PearPC.

By your comment about never building a machine it does not sound like you're an advanced user. That's fine many people just want to use and enjoy their computer. One of the strongest reasons to own a Mac is found there. Mac are easy to use. Intuitive. They already incorporate many of the features of MS Longhorn in their current MacOS X. But part of enjoying your computer is having it work and here the Mac really shines from the fact that it is virtually virus free. This is part testament to power of open source community to self regulate bugs rather than MS's proprietary model and part market share in that virus writers have not turned their evil gazes on the Mac to the same degree as Windows.

There are other reasons to adopt the Mac like MPEG group support of Quicktime and the upcoming H.264 (MPEG 4) protocol which is going to redefine digital video with support on HD-DVD and Blue Ray products. Sattelite providers like DirectTV (Murdoch) re-encoding their transmissions for H.264, TIVO support, etc.

Speaking about digital look at the iLife applications that come with the machine free. Elegant applications centered around the computer as your digital hub for photos, video, dvd production. They've made my mother into the family photo artist with her Mac and Canon camera. She glows when she talks about what she can do now. If you knew my mother you'd know why this is remarkable.

Anyway I've been long winded but my intent was simply to say that the apps argument is hooey IMHO and you can choose whichever but don't let apps stop you.

[RDN]

I personally wouldn' t get another Dell. The hard drives in them suck. Loud, slow, and a real pain to do any servicing to. Dell does not have any repair shops so if something goes wrong you either fix it yourself and void the warrantee, or ship it back to Dell.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have to disagree about Dell: my PC is a Dell laptop - Latitude CPx650 - and the only problem I've had with it is the keyboard 'bouncing'. Dell sent a new one to Phuket and the engineer came to my house and changed it. All done very quickly - and was done about 2 weeks before the 3 year international next business day extended warranty expired.

And my hard drive is an IBM Travelstar (actually I have 2 - I bought a spare one with the original machine) and they don't make much noise.

I agree the hard disk is slow - but my machine has only 256 MB of RAM, I'm sure it would run quicker with more. And now, after nearly 4 years, I think it's being made to do a lot more (Windows XP) than it was when I bought it (Windows 98).

[buadhai]

I bought one of the first Mac's when they came out in 1984. I've owned a bunch since then and have never purchased another brand. Granted, they are a premium product, but they are worth it. They are well-built from quality components. In 20 years the only hardware failure I've had is an internal modem blown from a lightening hit.

The "less software available" argument against Mac's is a red herring. Granted, there are less games available for a Mac and Mac ports generally come out later than the PC versions. As Knight_Rider pointed out, when it comes to every day applications, just about everything is available for the Mac.

And, for those few applications where you need a PC, Virtual PC is a reasonable alternative. I used it for some time to develop Access applications for work and the speed was perfectly acceptable.

Perhaps here is the most telling argument: When my GF and I started living together she had a year-old Sony VAIO. After using my iMac for a few weeks she junked the VAIO and ordered a Mac PowerBook and has never looked back....

[buadhai]

You asked what I would buy now and why. I've very happy with my 17" iMac. The one with the monitor on the cool swivel arm.

If i were buying now I'd be torn between one of the new iMacs and the Mini Mac. The problem with the Mini Mac is hard drive performance. It is a 2.5" drive with laptop style performance. And, if you buy quality components for the Mini Mac you'll end up spending about the same as just buying an all-Apple iMac.

Another option is the eMac. I think you can get one for 30,000 Baht which is an incredible deal. Although it does not have an LCD monitor, the CRT display is excellent.

BTW, here's the happy Mac convert....

[rickvan]

on the side of the software box said: Required Win98 or better, So I buy Macintosh

[Thaddeus]

I used to have a T-Shirt with "Windows 98 = Macintosh 84" printed on it

Although the gap in the functionality of the operating systems has probably now been reduced somewhat, bigger holes have opened up.

I'm sat here using a G4 (silver door) I installed OS X on it around two years ago, I have a 512k ADSL line connected via an Ethernet Router and I'm on a static IP Address.

I have MS Office, Adobe Illustrator, PhotoShop, InDesign, FileMaker and all the Apple digital video stuff.

I don't worry about getting a virus, I don't worry about spyware and I don't worry about getting hacked..... ever.

There were so many holes in WinXP (and the rest) that practically every support problem we have had in the last two or three years has been caused by one of the three above (sometimes a combination)... since MicroSoft released Service Pack 2 for XP, many of those holes have been plugged, but then half of your peripherals stopped working

And .... If I want to play games.... I'll buy an X-Box

[xbusman]

I had nothing but Macs since 1979 and I finally succumbed to the Windows insanity during my last job. They issued laptops and I was under the rediculous impression that a laptop could be synced with a PC and I secretly lusted after the slew of games available. While I had a vague clue on how miserable Windows is, I thought that they had done pretty well on creating a graphic shell that comes close to emulating the Mac OS. I have had a lovely and exciting education in this miserable operating system since. The only person who could possibly recommend Windows as an OS is a person who has no experience in any other OS. It is unstable, prone to cataclysmic crashes, viruses, memory hogging, spyware, pop ups, and just plain SLOW. If you want to use your computer for work there is nothing that Windows offers that Mac doesnt do easier, better and quicker. If you want to play games, Macs are about worthless. Personally, if there is a God, this will be the last PC I ever own.

[Firefoxx]

Let's slow down a bit, before this escalates into a full fledged Mac Vs PC war. I think it's pretty obvious that anyone who's owned whichever machine for a particular amount of time will become attached to it, and will defend it with his life (otherwise, he's accepting that he's not caught up with the Jones's, and therefore a backwater idiot). In the process, a lot of stuff is said that's not very true (or at the very best, dubious), since neither side is unbiased, and neither side knows much about the merits of the other. This soon becomes ugly, and strong words are exchanged, to nobody's advantage.

I say this: to each his own. Each has its own merits and shortcomings. No system a picture of perfect bliss.

I like my PC. I LOVE my PC, in all its quirky beauty. I wouldn't exchange it for the latest dual processor powermac (except, of course, to sell the Mac to get another PC). I think Mac owners will say something along these lines for their beloved Mac. We live with the good and bad of our respective camps. If either were total failures, nobody would have bought them.

[kabal1234]

The time has come and I have to buy a new desk top  computer , my current one being 7 years old !!,( purchased second hand )  ive read that the best way would be to build one myself, but not having any friends who could advise / help me in the construction I now have to buy a " brand " computer . ive looked at the makes  / specifications at my local IT mall, Acer and HP seem to have a good range. The Brands i don't know too much about are .. DELL and APPLE,  all the forum comments about APPLE computers seem to be how wonderful they are...?

Can any one comment on buying a " brand " computer, and why APPLE computers seem to always get a good review..? , and is it possible to see DELL computers in a show room ..?  My budget for my new machine is 40,000 Baht . Any comments or advice would be very welcome

                                                      Thanks  .....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So LEARN to build your own... it's not that hard and plenty of resources on the web. Don't get a Mac... Macs are for n00bs. And don't get a brand name machine (Dell, Compaq etc) unless your into buying lower quality for a higher price.

[Thaddeus]

Point taken Firefoxx.

The above post is a good illustration of that people will always favour the machine they have from both a familiary and a 'buyers remorse' standpoint.

The company I used to work for in the UK was fairly unique in that we sold and supported the Mac and the PC platforms equally.... it wasn't equal at all ... we needed three times the amount of support staff for the PC contracts (and before anyone says it... we had the same amount of Macs and PCs to look after) .... I have no axe to grind, I really don't care if X buys this and Y buys that.. but I do know which one causes most bruises to the back of the head when it is located under the desk

Edited January 17, 2005 by Thaddeus

[buadhai]

Don't get a Mac... Macs are for n00bs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's nice to see the level of discussion has reached these lofty heights.

I guess as a "n00b" I'll bow out and waste my time elsewhere

[cdnvic]

So LEARN to build your own... it's not that hard and plenty of resources on the web. Don't get a Mac... Macs are for n00bs. And don't get a brand name machine (Dell, Compaq etc) unless your into buying lower quality for a higher price.

I don't use macs by choice but it seems pretty imature to lower things to name calling over it. If you don't like them do what I do, use windows and bsd.

Unless you can build your own car, motorcycle, house, tv, etc, don't use them until you LEARN to build it yourself. Plenty of resources for all those on the web. Lets see if you can practice what you preach.

cv

[Boo]

Hi Thad, thought that was you, welcome to Thai Visa Gonna be needing this site now I think, in preparation for your move

Sorry chaps, carry on

[Thaddeus]

Hi Thad, thought that was you, welcome to Thai Visa   Gonna be needing this site now I think, in preparation for your move

Sorry chaps, carry on

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Indeed Boo

I'm quite enjoying reading some of the material in here! and I'll try to cause less trouble in this forum (can't say that I won't, but if I do it will be unintentional )

P.S. .... notice for this thread .... I've spent 20 years supporting Macs and 15 supporting PCs, I've owned both on a very long term basis, therefore, I've got a fairly good idea of what I am talking about ..... if you have the cash to not worry about how much to spend and you want to retain your hair and sanity, buy a Mac

[kabal1234]

So LEARN to build your own... it's not that hard and plenty of resources on the web. Don't get a Mac... Macs are for n00bs. And don't get a brand name machine (Dell, Compaq etc) unless your into buying lower quality for a higher price.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't use macs by choice but it seems pretty imature to lower things to name calling over it. If you don't like them do what I do, use windows and bsd.

Unless you can build your own car, motorcycle, house, tv, etc, don't use them until you LEARN to build it yourself. Plenty of resources for all those on the web. Lets see if you can practice what you preach.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I'm so sorry you don't like my opinion. I respect others' even if I disagree with them. That's what this forum is for.

[bkk_mike]

There are some questions that need answers before telling people what to do. Depending on what he does, he may not have a choice of buying a Mac.

Also - when it comes to building a PC. Why bother in Thailand. Shops in Pantip will build one for you, you just check the prices on what you want beforehand so that you don't get ripped off. It's how I've had all my PCs in Thailand built. (They only charge for the parts, not for the build).

I admit, for a user who doesn't like to tinker and who doesn't need to run a specific application that is only available for a PC, a Mac is likely to cause less problems. They are generally more stable, but that's partly down to Apple speccing all the hardware, as well as doing a good job with writing the Operating System.

No dodgy PSUs, overclocking, and weird incompatibilty issues between the motherboard bios and the video card, etc. helps a lot with Apple's overall stability.

If you are going to get a PC built, take your budget, and go check some prices at Pantip / IT Mall / Seacon Square / Tawanna in Bangkapi etc. - motherboards, CPUs, graphics cards, Power Supplies, cases, Memory, hard disk, DVD-Rom (or +-RW), etc. - add it all up, and you can get the PC built for that...

If the price is too high, drop down to a cheaper graphics card / cheaper CPU. Don't skimp too much on the monitor though, and some of the ultra-cheap keyboards and mice are truly crap. There is a shift going on at the moment from AGP and PCI motherboards / peripherals to PCI Express, but it's a grey area which to go for at the moment. (There's no real performance benefit to PCI express yet, although Nvidia's SLI might change that for some users, but it does cost more at the moment too).

You can look at the Thai-built prices too, but realise where they tend to skimp. - Included monitors are often pretty dire, short of memory, and they're mostly onboard graphics, which are acceptable for office use, but if you're playing games or using apps like Photoshop, you would need to add a decent graphics card.

You can save a lot by getting a CRT rather than a TFT, but if you're sitting in Windows all day working, a TFT (or two) is a lot better for eyestrain, etc. If you're playing games all the time, the CRTs flexibility on resolution switching can be useful.

[Crushdepth]

This short video (.swf) clearly demonstrates the superiority of Macs over PCs.

[bkk_mike]

This short video (.swf) clearly demonstrates the superiority of Macs over PCs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Love it - I've had that PC notebook where I had to take out the battery to get it to shutdown sometimes. I still can't get a Mac though as the office VPN software is for PCs.

[Thaddeus]

Loved the .swf .... very funny.

If anyone requires VPN software for a Mac, there is a package available, for free, from Apple's website, called IPSecuritas.... I have used it for over six months now, it works, it's stable ... did I mention it was free

[chonabot]

Thaddeus; How's Thailand-uk these days , do the mods still read your Pm's ?

Edited January 17, 2005 by chonabot

[Thaddeus]

Thaddeus; How's  Thailand-uk these days , do the mods still read your Pm's ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's fine... and no idea, but I don't have a problem with them reading mine if they care to.

Back to the subject eh?

[Mumbo Jumbo]

Thanks For every one's comments,

I would like to find out a bit more about Apple Computers , does any one know where I can find the current prices ( in Thai Baht ) of the Apple range , also does any one know of an English speaking Apple users forum / support group here in Thailand..? ive searched the net but not much luck.. and is there an Apple user in The Chonburi Area .... ?

Thanks ....

[buadhai]

Have you seen this site:

MacDD Thailand

The Prices Page is in English.

This is the web page of the Apple Store at Siam Discovery Center.

The only thing I've ever bought from them is Apple Care for a Power Book. That price was cheaper than in the US. The hardware prices look high to me, except for the eMac, which is reasonable.

[chanchao]

Don't build yourself. Would you consider building your own car, or bicycle? Or furniture? (in Thailand??) Probably only if you had a special interest in doing so, like for a hobby or because you have skills that would make your home-built one far better/cheaper than what's available in the shops.

As for Macs: I've used them extensively and they can crash, too. They're not somehow magically better, especially not when compared to brand name PCs and laptops. Most of the trouble people experience in Windows comes from the huge diversity in hardware, peripherals and other add-ons. With a more restricted set of hardware, Mac's are more expensive but that new add-on is very likely to just work. If you can find it. And if you can afford it.

Personally I'd get any brand name laptop computer, but not Dell of course. Dell's operation in Thailand is a joke. So you're probably looking at HP, IBM, Toshiba, perhaps Acer. And then Sony make some very sexy machines but they're priced up there with Macs.. That said, I checked out the price page for the iBook Macs and prices are lower than I feared. And if they'll sell a Mac Mini for $499 * 38.5 = about 20K baht then I'll get one though.

Windows XP on a brand name laptop runs steady as a rock.

Oh yes, why laptop: You made it all the way to Thailand so that means you're mobile. Furthermore laptops take up little space, aren't an eyesore around the house, no cable mess, great flat LCD screens and... They're QUIET! PC's especially Pantip clones can make an awful lot of noise from all the fans. That's okay at an offic, but at home you'd want something that doesn't sound like a jet engine. That said, some of the cheapest laptops as made by HP/Compaq can be very noisy, so you'd want to check that before buying.

Cheers,

Chanchao