Father-in-law Dead 7 Years

[coventry]

My Thai wife's father has been dead 7 years, and in the last week my mother in law has been contacted twice, by post, to pay off debts alleged to be owed by him, prior to death. Is this a scam ?

[TexasRanger]

My Thai wife's father has been dead 7 years, and in the last week my mother in law has been contacted twice, by post, to pay off debts alleged to be owed by him, prior to death. Is this a scam ?

Maybe not, my friends wife has been divorced from her Thai hubby for over 10 years and she was contacted about paying his debts (he is now a monk)!

Needleess to say they told them to foxtrot oscar.

[Maigo6]

My Thai wife's father has been dead 7 years, and in the last week my mother in law has been contacted twice, by post, to pay off debts alleged to be owed by him, prior to death. Is this a scam ?

What have you found out by looking at the actual letters ?

If there are loans, is the land you are on, on your wifes mother is on part of the security, can she lose her house, farm etc, can your wife lose hers ?

I think asking here will attract the usual accusations of the persecuted Farang being scammed by the horrible ole' Thais, of course the only person who can possibly know for sure is you, the rest will just jump on the bandwagon with the usual accusations whilst not knowing any of the circumstances.

Ask your wife if its a scam.

[coventry]

As of now, I haven't been involved in the equation. Only my mother-in-law has, by being sent the letters of claim. My mother-in-law cannot read or write, so my wife then becomes involved. In the second claim they ask about the childrens where abouts, then it involves me. Obviously the land on which my house is on is in the wife's name. Now my problem. Or is it ?

[noise]

As of now, I haven't been involved in the equation. Only my mother-in-law has, by being sent the letters of claim. My mother-in-law cannot read or write, so my wife then becomes involved. In the second claim they ask about the childrens where abouts, then it involves me. Obviously the land on which my house is on is in the wife's name. Now my problem. Or is it ?

Insufficient details to even make a WAG. Nevertheless, what would children's (and whose children) where abouts have to do with a dead man's debt? Was it a letter from a relative or former friend, half trying to collect and half making small talk?

[Heng]

Tell them to copy their dad's death certificate and send it back to them.

They'll probably go into more detail at that point. More often than not, you do indeed take your debts (unsecured loans, credit card debt, etc.) with you when you die. What you don't take obviously are debts with property as collateral. If you inherit the property, you of course inherit any liens on the property as well.

[Jungian]

I guess it stands to reason. My Mother has been dead for 10 years and a particular persistent credit card company in the USA has tracked me down in Thailand and actually demanded payment! To borrow from TexasRanger I told them to "foxtrot oscar" and furthermore anything in her name in the USA they may have if you can find it!

[coventry]

what would children's (and whose children) where abouts have to do with a dead man's debt?

The reason, I assume, is that the children/wife may have inherited land, money, goods etc that can be claimed against. My wife tells me that the claimants are finance companies. When the father-in-law died there was never any letters received asking for money, but now 7 years post death, they claim. It doesn't seem credible to me.

[loong]

were the letters addressed to your Mother or Father-in-law?

If addressed to your MIL, how did the finance company know he is dead?

What was the loan for? (if there ever was a loan)

[Cuban]

I would not be surprised if such companies kept details on file and sent off letters asking for payment every few years on the off chance that the family's forture had improved and that the monies were recoverable.

I am guessing there is no record of any outstanding debt?

Compare the amount they are asking for vs the cost of legal assistance, if it's a large sum they seek it is worth defending against.

[mhatami]

My Thai wife's father has been dead 7 years, and in the last week my mother in law has been contacted twice, by post, to pay off debts alleged to be owed by him, prior to death. Is this a scam ?

I have see this many times before and usually not true. I recommend if you decided to pay ask for documents and do not pay her pay the person the owe money too after getting the proof

[Heng]

I forgot to add that if there was property as collateral, it would have likely been seized by now... and quite possibly already auctioned off through the LED.

[coventry]

were the letters addressed to your Mother or Father-in-law?

If addressed to your MIL, how did the finance company know he is dead?

What was the loan for? (if there ever was a loan)

My mother-in-law was divorced from the father-in-law prior to his death. As per Thai law, she reverted back to her maiden name. The claimants addressed the letters to her present address with her maiden name. How they obtained that information is a mystery.

One of the claimants is from a bank that loans to government employees, the father-in-law being a teacher. I'm now told that he borrowed money from them to buy land, with a house already built on it. He knocked the house down and was in the process of building a new one, when he died. The bank repossesed the land after his death. For the last 7 years they haven't been able to find a buyer. According to my wife, the last letter says they have now sold the land, but at a loss. It is this loss they are trying to recover. She also thinks that they've accumilated interest, over the 7 years on the sum, as she says 19% is mentioned in the claim.

The second claimant doesn't detail what the debt is for, other than to ask for 15,000 Baht. The company title, on the letter, is AEON. I believe to be a Thai credit card company.

Sorry for the slow information but it's like getting blood out of a stone, at times.

Edited March 14, 2009 by coventry

[Pakeha]

were the letters addressed to your Mother or Father-in-law?

If addressed to your MIL, how did the finance company know he is dead?

What was the loan for? (if there ever was a loan)

My mother-in-law was divorced from the father-in-law prior to his death. As per Thai law, she reverted back to her maiden name. The claimants addressed the letters to her present address with her maiden name. How they obtained that information is a mystery.

One of the claimants is from a bank that loans to government employees, the father-in-law being a teacher. I'm now told that he borrowed money from them to buy land, with a house already built on it. He knocked the house down and was in the process of building a new one, when he died. The bank repossesed the land after his death. For the last 7 years they haven't been able to find a buyer. According to my wife, the last letter says they have now sold the land, but at a loss. It is this loss they are trying to recover. She also thinks that they've accumilated interest, over the 7 years on the sum, as she says 19% is mentioned in the claim.

The second claimant doesn't detail what the debt is for, other than to ask for 15,000 Baht. The company title, on the letter, is AEON. I believe to be a Thai credit card company.

Sorry for the slow information but it's like getting blood out of a stone, at times.

If the loan was taken after the divorce and your MIL has no connection to the loan (i.e. did she guarantee it / countersign?) and no connection to the land (i.e. was her name registered on the title?) she has nothing to worry about.

The finance company is just having a punt. That is what they do. And given the current market conditions they are probably seeking to get every baht they can from any old debts on file. Better to have their staff chasing outstanding debt than signing up new business / loans.

[Travel2003]

Reading the thread with interest here.

If a woman can inherit her (dead) husbands assets, can she not also inherit his debt?

Reason for asking is because my father in law passed away some time ago.

[Pakeha]

Reading the thread with interest here.

If a woman can inherit her (dead) husbands assets, can she not also inherit his debt?

Reason for asking is because my father in law passed away some time ago.

YEs and she generally does. Normally debts are repaid from the estate and then the living partner would get what's left over.

However in this case the OP has said his MIL was divorced. If her husband did leave anything to her it would need to have been done so via a will. And no, you can not leave your debts to different people (whom you dislike - such as an ex wife ) in your will.

[coventry]

My MIL was married to the FIL at the time of getting the loan for the land. Being illiterate she doesn't know what the FIL did finacially.

I thought that this problem would have arisen before with other members of TV, but obviously not, and a quick solution would have been put forward. Thanks to all posters for the input. It looks like a trip to a lawyer for the MIL.

[loong]

Sorry for the slow information but it's like getting blood out of a stone, at times.

Don't I know it

Regarding the land purchase. If the purchase was after the divorce, the bank can't possibly make a claim against his ex-wife can they? EDIT..I see you have now posted that they were married at the time of purchase

I have no idea if a deceased persons liabilities for debt pass to the children, it doesn't seem right somehow.

Did the children actually inherit anything?

Maybe you MIL signed something after his death, this is possible, but any signature would be worthless as she cannot read or write. I would get your wife to send a letter stating that MIL is not responsible for her ex-husband's death and to stop this harassment. Also point out that the letter is being written on MIL behalf as she cannot read or write.

It may be that the bank and finance co are just trying it on in the hope that the MIL will pay.

Edited March 14, 2009 by loong

[Travel2003]

Reading the thread with interest here.

If a woman can inherit her (dead) husbands assets, can she not also inherit his debt?

Reason for asking is because my father in law passed away some time ago.

YEs and she generally does. Normally debts are repaid from the estate and then the living partner would get what's left over.

However in this case the OP has said his MIL was divorced. If her husband did leave anything to her it would need to have been done so via a will. And no, you can not leave your debts to different people (whom you dislike - such as an ex wife ) in your will.

Thnx for the reply.

Not intending to hijack the thread.

For the OP,

maybe Mother in law signed some loan documents many years before the divorce? Not knowing what she signed? This due to the fact Father in law had accumulated so much debt that he needed an other signature for a new loan?

Not trying to speculate here, but just asking OP if this could be possible.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Isn't there some time limit on how long a debt can be carried forward?

[loong]

Coventry.

I believe that Thai Law is much the same as British Law.

Under British Law...

If a bank advances a loan and a husband and wife are held responsible for that loan, it is up to the bank to ascertain that there is no UNDUE INFLUENCE exerted on the wife by the husband. If the bank does not do this, they cannot hold the wife responsible for the debt.

The bank will normally do this by making sure that an independent lawyer meets with the wife alone and advises her on her rights and liabilities. The lawyer has to be sure that she understands has made a decision without undue influence from her husband.

http://research.lawyers.com/glossary/undue-influence.html

Edited March 14, 2009 by loong

[coventry]

Thnx for the reply.

Not intending to hijack the thread.

For the OP,

maybe Mother in law signed some loan documents many years before the divorce? Not knowing what she signed? This due to the fact Father in law had accumulated so much debt that he needed an other signature for a new loan?

Not trying to speculate here, but just asking OP if this could be possible.

I agree 'Travel2003', all is possible. Deep down I think the MIL has forgotten what she may have signed years ago. The wife tells me she can sign her own name, but that's it.

The FIL did leave another property to my BIL, which he still has. I assume, but by asking of the childrens where abouts, they can possibly claim from them, as they gained from his death.

[Maizefarmer]

Statue of limitations in respect of monies owed by a deceased in Thailand are long up - I believe its 5 years max - and then still only enforceable if a claim was lodged with the executor of the deceaseds' estate when he passed away.

This is nothing new, it happens a lot and preys on the next-of-kins lack of knowledge/understanding of the law - the claim has to be made against the deceaseds' estate - and before the executor completes distribution of any assets.

[henryalleman]

Reading the thread with interest here.

If a woman can inherit her (dead) husbands assets, can she not also inherit his debt?

Reason for asking is because my father in law passed away some time ago.

I don't know Thai law, but in my country you can refuse an inheritance, so you get nothing, but you are also no longer responsible for the debts of the diseased person. BTW you must give this statement blind, meaning before any bank or solicitor open the books.

Maybe there is something similar in Thai inheritance laws.

[OriginalPoster]

Reading the thread with interest here.

If a woman can inherit her (dead) husbands assets, can she not also inherit his debt?

Reason for asking is because my father in law passed away some time ago.

I don't know Thai law, but in my country you can refuse an inheritance, so you get nothing, but you are also no longer responsible for the debts of the diseased person. BTW you must give this statement blind, meaning before any bank or solicitor open the books.

Maybe there is something similar in Thai inheritance laws.

Also don't know about Thai law, but that can be tricky in the case of spouses though because in many jurisdictions communal propriety laws apply - assets & debts of husband & wife are considered to belong to both parties equally. In such cases, if the couple runs up debts that exceed their assets, the death of the husband would normally not absolve the wife of the debts.

Edited March 14, 2009 by OriginalPoster

[stumonster]

the finance company has sent a demand letter to a lady who cannot read and write.

fabricate a law letterhead and translate it and the letter into some obscure Swahili dialect and send it to them

[lioness]

A friend of mine received a large wad of papers to appear in the bankruptcy court, his mother had been dead 9 1/2 years, unbeknown to him there was a bank loan for 50,000 Baht. At no stage during the 9 years had anything arrived pertaining to this. The biggest shock was that the 50,000 Baht was now a bit over 1.2 million. Interest then Interest on Interest and so on.

He was able to negotiate and settle the debt for 300,000 Baht, if he hadn't done that he would have lost his home and been declared bankrupt.

[loong]

A friend of mine received a large wad of papers to appear in the bankruptcy court, his mother had been dead 9 1/2 years, unbeknown to him there was a bank loan for 50,000 Baht. At no stage during the 9 years had anything arrived pertaining to this. The biggest shock was that the 50,000 Baht was now a bit over 1.2 million. Interest then Interest on Interest and so on.

He was able to negotiate and settle the debt for 300,000 Baht, if he hadn't done that he would have lost his home and been declared bankrupt.

I'm sorry, but I really find this hard to believe.

If interest rate was 15% it would take about 23 years for 50,000 to grow to 1.2 mill. At 20% more than 17 years.

A bank may launch a civil action to recover a debt, but to not straight to bankruptcy.

Sounds more like a hard luck story to solicit donations

[lioness]

A friend of mine received a large wad of papers to appear in the bankruptcy court, his mother had been dead 9 1/2 years, unbeknown to him there was a bank loan for 50,000 Baht. At no stage during the 9 years had anything arrived pertaining to this. The biggest shock was that the 50,000 Baht was now a bit over 1.2 million. Interest then Interest on Interest and so on.

He was able to negotiate and settle the debt for 300,000 Baht, if he hadn't done that he would have lost his home and been declared bankrupt.

I'm sorry, but I really find this hard to believe.

If interest rate was 15% it would take about 23 years for 50,000 to grow to 1.2 mill. At 20% more than 17 years.

A bank may launch a civil action to recover a debt, but to not straight to bankruptcy.

Sounds more like a hard luck story to solicit donations

It's immaterial wether you believe it or not, it happened. There was a mountain of fees and lawyers costs along the way and these also collected interest. I saw the paperwork and my husband and I went with him to provide support ( not financial ) when he went to negotiate with the banks lawyers.

He sold his car to clear the debt.

They had sent out a notice at the 5 year stage, we saw copies of this, however they had sent it to a wrong address in another province, so of course he never got to see this.

[henryalleman]

Reading the thread with interest here.

If a woman can inherit her (dead) husbands assets, can she not also inherit his debt?

Reason for asking is because my father in law passed away some time ago.

I don't know Thai law, but in my country you can refuse an inheritance, so you get nothing, but you are also no longer responsible for the debts of the diseased person. BTW you must give this statement blind, meaning before any bank or solicitor open the books.

Maybe there is something similar in Thai inheritance laws.

Also don't know about Thai law, but that can be tricky in the case of spouses though because in many jurisdictions communal propriety laws apply - assets & debts of husband & wife are considered to belong to both parties equally. In such cases, if the couple runs up debts that exceed their assets, the death of the husband would normally not absolve the wife of the debts.

Overhere this is only so if she co-signed the loans. That's why many people make an prenuptial with separated property and earnings, to avoid this problem. Also when I the wife or husband open a business she can make a statement that she opppose and reject that her husband open a bussiness , so in this case she is also protected from debt make by the business. Of course this is possible the other way arround also.