My Catfish Farm Operation

[DerkMR]

DerkMR, as a scientist and as an observer, what is your outlook and opinion of the aquaculture that is ongoing in present Thailand and concern in regards to small operations of the rest of Thailand like mine and Ozzydom...and what's your opinion in regards to AEC impacts coming into effect in the late 2015 in terms of free trade... in business point of view.

On a worldwide level aquaculture is getting more and more important as the natural resources are being destroyed.

As we could see the "up to the limit" stocking and mostly monoculture way was quite bad for a lot of shrimp farmers last year, also consumers for higher priced products look more on the side of use of chemicals, antibiotics etc. so going organic opens a future market for higher profit...

I'm very much interested in the crayfish breeding thread as I had some crayfish in my tanks some years ago (I have fish tanks since 37 years now). Like the Macrobrachium rosenbergii the red claws seem to open a market segment which is interesting. Experiments to be made in which combination of fish they do well in the ponds.

AEC on my opinion will have low impacts as the transport costs outnumber possible margin differences due to cost of work in most areas apart of the ones close to the border.

From a operational stability view I would always look to have 1/4 - 1/3 of the net income to be provided by a different column of the business construction, so use the ponds waste-water for modified Aquaponics (just do constant outflow instead of circulation), have fruit trees around the border of the area, have a small plot of veggies which you circle during the year (garlic, bell peppers, chilies) for which you use waste-water for watering.

Also when in fish business and having the space a fishing pond might be attractive - there are two main concepts

- take away what you caught at set prices

- catch and release (practiced for the larger gamefish which need years to grow)

and also a combination of both. If you choose the first you have to refill what got caught.

Typical price range is THB 50/kg for taking away pla nin and pla duk plus you charge entry fee per fishing rod and have some catering and utility shop.

If you have a nice fishing area with good game fish also renting out rooms or houses is possible as people travel long distances to well known sites.

So in my opinion the main operational advantage is to do it different than others as one of the first, to do it better than the others because they just try to copy you afterwards. So the main advantage is in between your ears

Bye,

Derk

[RedBullHorn]

DerkMR, i thank you for your input and it is very much appreciated... Now i can decide on my next move. Thanks !

[David48]

On a worldwide level aquaculture is getting more and more important as the natural resources are being destroyed.

As we could see the "up to the limit" stocking and mostly monoculture way was quite bad for a lot of shrimp farmers last year, also consumers for higher priced products look more on the side of use of chemicals, antibiotics etc. so going organic opens a future market for higher profit...

<snip>

Great Post ...

[weedywhaoo]

The Red Claw crayfish from Australia very well suited to be grown in Thailand, at least in the central and southern part.

The ideal temperature of the water is about 27 degrees Celsius. I met a Thai guy in Sakaeow provins that has 40 rai of land.

The link below is an interesting article about this guy. It's in Thai but have somebody translate it for you if you don't read Thai.

http://www.thairath.co.th/content/region/347216

He says that he makes 5 million per year in profit, even with just 10 rai a decent income is possible. As with the fish farm business, they way to make profit is to keep feed costs down. The grow out period is about 8 months. This guy is selling to Makro stores in Thailand and he told me that he gets 350 Baht per kilo for small crayfish, about 60-70 grams each. Larger ones 100 grams up goes for 500 Baht per kilo.

Red Claws can be grown together with Tilapia. Sadly catfish and crayfish does not go well together. The catfish would eat the crayfish. Also the cycles for catfish is much shorter than crayfish, so It's not suitable to do them together. It could be possible to grow them together, provided it is possible to keep the crayfish contained in some kind of cage on the bottom.

When I set up my fishfarm in Saraburi, I will certainly do some try out with red claws. At this moment I play around with 5 plastic tanks and a simple filter to grow crayfish. I bought some in July last year and they have already reproduced, so more tanks will be necessary to buy in the future.

Luckily I have not yet needed to buy more tanks because my neighbours keep stealing them when they come to eatable size .

There is also a red claw project done by the Kings mothers organization in Chiang mai provins. The place is called Intanon or something like that. I haven't been there so I don't know if it's worth a visit.

In Australia they have recently development a new strain of red claws, called Tolga strain. They will grow larger and faster and would certainly make a business more profitable. However I don't know if it is possible to import them here.

If anyone is interested I have many files about growing crayfish I found on the internet. Last year in October there was a big seminar in Cairns about growing red claws. Sadly I could not go there, but I ordered a DVD of the conference speakers and if it evers arrives, I would gladly share it with anybody that's interested.

[ray23]

As mention before, concrete tank are different from raising in earthern pond. It will no doubt takes a longer time to raise them in concrete tank, more so in the cold season. I feed twice a day from the day they are release into the ponds up to 28 days or the end of #1 size pellets, then once a day(evening) till 60th day. The reason been that outbreak of disease usually occurs during the 2nd month of rearing like swollen of liver and gall which turn the whole fish "yellow", the Thai vet call it "Lok Dee San", this is result from one contributing factor: Over- Feeding or Force-Feeding. By feeding once a day will also "lenghten" them so they don't look big head, short and fat but smaller head and longer body which the wholesalers love~ (benefit to have more weigh on the body than on the head)

On the 61 days onward till harvest is the period i fatten them, back to twice a day feeding- late morning and evening. By evening i mean at dusk when the sky's turning dark... . At 1 Baht/ kilowatt, my whole farm is fitted with 30 energy saving twister bulbs (Philip's 23 watt) light on from dusk till dawn.

Clarias are predator of the night by nature and they are most active at night, feed them at night like i do if your pond have light.

Never mind if you can't see well, the moment they stop splashing around you'll sense that they'r full.

And as always, i'll multi-task--- One turn feeding and one turn drinking (beer Chang)

The key point here is feed till satiation...don't over feed! They are varocious but they'll stop when full then they will just burps (2 bubbles everytime they swim up and down, mass action)

90 days are for earthen pond, normal season.>4.5 months for earthen pond in cold season.

Concrete pond will takes 4.5 to 5 months, longer for cold season.

The standarn now is 95 sacks for 10'000 regardless of season for earthen pond using 2'-3' inches fingerlings.

15 size #1 and 80 size #2 pellets.

I have expanded ...now i'm doing 8 ponds + 1 water storage pond and internal waterway to feed water to all ponds.

I'm not raising any fish as i'm facing drought now but i took the chance to excavate the whole plot of 11 rai, luckily i still have 80 pigs to rely on for income

...so for the time being, i'll just do the rain dance on my free time.

All the best aitch52

Cheers

RBH

Thanks RBH

[RedBullHorn]

As mention before, concrete tank are different from raising in earthern pond. It will no doubt takes a longer time to raise them in concrete tank, more so in the cold season. I feed twice a day from the day they are release into the ponds up to 28 days or the end of #1 size pellets, then once a day(evening) till 60th day. The reason been that outbreak of disease usually occurs during the 2nd month of rearing like swollen of liver and gall which turn the whole fish "yellow", the Thai vet call it "Lok Dee San", this is result from one contributing factor: Over- Feeding or Force-Feeding. By feeding once a day will also "lenghten" them so they don't look big head, short and fat but smaller head and longer body which the wholesalers love~ (benefit to have more weigh on the body than on the head)

On the 61 days onward till harvest is the period i fatten them, back to twice a day feeding- late morning and evening. By evening i mean at dusk when the sky's turning dark... . At 1 Baht/ kilowatt, my whole farm is fitted with 30 energy saving twister bulbs (Philip's 23 watt) light on from dusk till dawn.

Clarias are predator of the night by nature and they are most active at night, feed them at night like i do if your pond have light.

Never mind if you can't see well, the moment they stop splashing around you'll sense that they'r full.

And as always, i'll multi-task--- One turn feeding and one turn drinking (beer Chang)

The key point here is feed till satiation...don't over feed! They are varocious but they'll stop when full then they will just burps (2 bubbles everytime they swim up and down, mass action)

90 days are for earthen pond, normal season.>4.5 months for earthen pond in cold season.

Concrete pond will takes 4.5 to 5 months, longer for cold season.

The standarn now is 95 sacks for 10'000 regardless of season for earthen pond using 2'-3' inches fingerlings.

15 size #1 and 80 size #2 pellets.

I have expanded ...now i'm doing 8 ponds + 1 water storage pond and internal waterway to feed water to all ponds.

I'm not raising any fish as i'm facing drought now but i took the chance to excavate the whole plot of 11 rai, luckily i still have 80 pigs to rely on for income

...so for the time being, i'll just do the rain dance on my free time.

All the best aitch52

Cheers

RBH

Thanks RBH

You're welcome. What would you like to know ? ...because this is an old post and my skill level have been upgraded 3 times since then... You can ask me now and i will give you the updated version.

[ozzydom]

The Red Claw crayfish from Australia very well suited to be grown in Thailand, at least in the central and southern part.

The ideal temperature of the water is about 27 degrees Celsius. I met a Thai guy in Sakaeow provins that has 40 rai of land.

The link below is an interesting article about this guy. It's in Thai but have somebody translate it for you if you don't read Thai.

http://www.thairath.co.th/content/region/347216

He says that he makes 5 million per year in profit, even with just 10 rai a decent income is possible. As with the fish farm business, they way to make profit is to keep feed costs down. The grow out period is about 8 months. This guy is selling to Makro stores in Thailand and he told me that he gets 350 Baht per kilo for small crayfish, about 60-70 grams each. Larger ones 100 grams up goes for 500 Baht per kilo.

Red Claws can be grown together with Tilapia. Sadly catfish and crayfish does not go well together. The catfish would eat the crayfish. Also the cycles for catfish is much shorter than crayfish, so It's not suitable to do them together. It could be possible to grow them together, provided it is possible to keep the crayfish contained in some kind of cage on the bottom.

When I set up my fishfarm in Saraburi, I will certainly do some try out with red claws. At this moment I play around with 5 plastic tanks and a simple filter to grow crayfish. I bought some in July last year and they have already reproduced, so more tanks will be necessary to buy in the future.

Luckily I have not yet needed to buy more tanks because my neighbours keep stealing them when they come to eatable size .

There is also a red claw project done by the Kings mothers organization in Chiang mai provins. The place is called Intanon or something like that. I haven't been there so I don't know if it's worth a visit.

In Australia they have recently development a new strain of red claws, called Tolga strain. They will grow larger and faster and would certainly make a business more profitable. However I don't know if it is possible to import them here.

If anyone is interested I have many files about growing crayfish I found on the internet. Last year in October there was a big seminar in Cairns about growing red claws. Sadly I could not go there, but I ordered a DVD of the conference speakers and if it evers arrives, I would gladly share it with anybody that's interested.

The translation of the article says the guy is a member of a 120 member co-operative who grow the redclaws in farm ponds and rice paddies (with rice growing) without aeration and feeding apart from some "seeds" and cycads they collect.

Sorry about the off topic RBH.

[RedBullHorn]

...and made ฿5'000'000.- from 14'000kg. That work out to be roughly ฿350/kg. 14 tonnes out of 40 rai = 350kg/rai.

[SailingHome]

Wait... all that work and outlay to make US$7,000/year? Is this normal?

[RedBullHorn]

I find it normal, if you calculate in THB฿...

[Dancealot]

I find it normal, if you calculate in THB฿...

I find it normal to give up certain living standards I grew accustomed to, in the west. In many ways this thought is very comforting to me when I think and dream about farming.

[DerkMR]

Wait... all that work and outlay to make US$7,000/year? Is this normal?

Did I miss some days in which the $ made the jump above 700 Baht?

Bye,

Derk

[RedBullHorn]

Just past 20'000 views ! Thank you all !

My present post is 1298. Heng Heng Huat Huat ! (Prosperity and Fortune!)

Lunar New Year 2014 !

[Goompa]

You are so very welcome RBH !

Underlined for Maximum Appreciation .

[RedBullHorn]

Grrrr.....How should i start ? Looking at the bottle... Half...My face just numb up already. Very nice 50 degree Lao Khao~

A few members PM, to visit my small Clarias fish farm, welcome... To see the operations and to ask for start up advise...and tips.

They got their trip worth, "Thank you so much !" "Any time mate~"

You see, anyone with a blessed stream or river running water 24/7 can rear fishes of any kind...and Pla Duk is always the fast turn-over cash crop in the fish farmer POV. Just excavate a pond among the paddy plot next to the water source of endless supply, put in the fingerlings, get the right feed and "Wa Laa!!!". It is that simple.

NOT ! You will go through the phase of "Trial & Error" to do the learning curve... With the advise from me to do the sustainability farming with a deep pocket. If you want the short cut & easy way out package, You need to be a little willing to sacrifice more in term of time to result by the dollar.

I offer the standard rearing proceedure for free...The market and technique of rearing ARE also free... But not the enhanced performance to give you the EDGE. This you will have to fork out a bit. (I put it very bluntly. For my efforts to made you stand out among the rest.) and also you will think twice before you share, you might want to charge too to recoup.

[weedywhaoo]

RBH,

You are so right about what you write. Everything here always seems easy but it never is like that. I have met people that has run restaurants successfully in Europe for 30 years, then they start a restaurant here in Thailand and are bankrupt within a year or two. You give them advice but they seldom listen, they think they know everything but has absolutely know clue about the culture difference between Thailand and other countries.

I personally contacted you and asked for your advice and would be very grateful to listen to your advice.

You only asked for a sixpack of Guiness and I thought that is a nice deal. I would bring a 24 pack going up north to see you.

Well I must say that you know what to ask for , I have checked everywhere in Phuket, there is no Guiness to be found. I have also been to Pattaya and the result is the same.

You can get Cherry beer or Mango Beer from Belgium and 50 or so more different foreign beers but there is no bloody Guiness to be found here, at least not on a bottle or can.

The closest I have found is a 30 liter canister but you need other equipment to get the beer out. Then you cant bring it on an aeroplane.

Do you have any other beer in mind that would open the lock to learn about cat fish farming?

Im sitting on the terass trying my best to kill some leftover wiskey, cheers!!

[RedBullHorn]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/612480-farm-photos/page-135

My first can 2014, courtesy from oversea friend visiting with DFS.

Can't get Guinness... next on the list = a bottle of Gewürztraminer Eiswein (German) or from Alsace, France will do too.

Weedywhaoo... never mind and ignore the above request. PM me when are you flying up country and we can arrange on your visit.

[weedywhaoo]

Sounds very good to me, I am sure I will find something that will go down the throat. I am leaving Phuket today going to Saraburi and will start digging ponds next week.

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[RedBullHorn]

Sounds very good to me, I am sure I will find something that will go down the throat. I am leaving Phuket today going to Saraburi and will start digging ponds next week.

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You need advise on a good pond lay out ? Get it wrong will make things troublesome for you in the later stage.

A couple of members came to see me before they excavate, to better understand a fuss free lay out that will make their life easier in the future.

I'm just saying~

[RedBullHorn]

My feed stock just arrived... at 7am !!! A little after sunrise. Told the driver to park and wait for the crew arriving at 7:30am...

"She-who-shall-be-obey" checks the numbers and inspects them.

[weedywhaoo]

My feed stock just arrived... at 7am !!! A little after sunrise. Told the driver to park and wait for the crew arriving at 7:30am...

"She-who-shall-be-obey" checks the numbers and inspects them.

[weedywhaoo]

Hello RBH,

It was sad that it was not possible to meet you at the framers meeting. However I met many other wonderful people, among them was a very nice guy named Dancealot. He told me that you are good friends. I hope that your harvesting was successful and you got a good price for your fishes.

I could write much more but since this is your forum I will keep it short.

I still hope that I can meet you and bring something to cool the throat, even if it is not guiness. Wish you all well RBH.

[RedBullHorn]

Hi, i have been busy lately...harvesting... here's some photos

...and please feel free to write as you want here.

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[weedywhaoo]

Hello RBH,

I am slowly becoming a fishfarmer. I have just received my first batch of fishes. I got 400 000 small fishes, (5000 to a kilo) at a price of 13 stang each.

They are divided into 4 ponds that are slightly larger than a rai. It is probably over stocking but the first cyckle I will follow the way my neighbours do the farming business. I have now fed them for 4 days and mixing in medicin with the food to get them strong.

Although the survival rate is expected to be 80%, I still haven't seen any dead fishes. I was a little bit nervous when putting in the fishes, as the pH in the water was at 8,2, a little bit ti high I guess.

Before putting in the fishes I put 2 bags of dolomite in each pond, to stabilize the pH. The water now looks okey and no deaths as yet. (knock on wood).

The first 3 weeks I will use feed from CP group with a protein level of 30%. Then there will be a period of 2 weeks with 40% protein level. I think it is frog food. The cost is 1200 Baht per 20 kg, so this will only go on for 2 weeks, then it is back to the lower grade of 30% at a price of 500 Baht per 20 kg.

Please let me her your opinion of this feeding system.

At this time I feed 10kg per 100 000 fishes once a day in the morning.

[RedBullHorn]

Now you want my opinion ???

5'000 to a kg, that is not fingerlings...those are fries...

Fingerlings 3" - 4" @ a kg weigth are between numbers 425 - 450.

Good luck... you're on your own now...and fries don't float if they die, they sink...

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[Canada]

Question:

If you do not have running water nearby, in your opinion, could you do a reasonable sized operation off of a well that produced 200 litres a minute?

3 ponds for rearing and 1 for water reserve.

Thanks.

[Canada]

It would take me 2 days of continuous pumping to fill the reserve pond. If I was changing water in 3 ponds once per week, at 100 percent water change, my submersible pump would be running 24/7 continuous. Not sure if these pumps will last long under 24/7 continuous load.

If I lessened the water change to 50% water change, The pump would get some rest, but still would be working hard. Maybe 2 wells and 2 pumps if my underground supply is good. I don't know. Then have to factor in electrical cost for pumping water out of the ground first before distribution.

Question: When changing water, can the "used water" be reclaimed? What would you need to do to it to be able to use it again. So...pump it to another pond, treat it, and then re-use it. Possible?

Otherwise, I'd be looking at trying to dispose of a lot of water every week in an area without natural running water (in or out).

[RedBullHorn]

First of all, does your place experience drought, it yes then during drought how low is your water level in the pond...0.5m ? 0.8m ?

I mentioned well are not reliable become you can't see how much water is beneath it...can you ? A water reserve pond allow you to gauge how much water you have because you can see the water level.

During an event of emergency and suddenly your precious and expensive submersible pump fail you, that would be trouble... and without water replacement, your stock mortality rate just climb and climb.

And then there is the cost factor...

My upgraded skill and farming method "Do Not Require" water change... and it is a successful one too.

[Canada]

I only have one small pond right now. We stocked it last year with a thousand pal duk, but only for fun. Sometimes we catch a few to eat.

The small pond does not hold water really well. It is maybe 1 mter deep. I fill it once every two weeks about 30,000litres.

I understand what you say about wells. But I only have a well. No running stream or river nearby. Is it possible to farm fish with only a well? If you have a method that does not require water change, then I think it is possible. If water needs a 70% change once a week, then with only well water, capacity would be limited.

Can you re-use water after changing it? Can you treat it in another pond?

[RedBullHorn]

Your pond needs to hold water at level at least 1.3m minimum for farming pla duk, measuring for the top of mud bed...not measuring depth with hight of mud bed included.

For growth benefits, not recommended to reuse foul water. Does impact on profits.

What is the size of pond and what shape ?

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