Is There A Rental Market In Pattaya?

[dfc]

This is my first post so I'll try to make it as brief as possible.

I am currently living and working in London but it is quite likely that I will be made redundant later this year. If this happens then I will sell my house and move back North to be with with family & friends. It is my intention to come and live in Thailand but that could be a couple of years away yet.

The problem will be that once the Dole (unemployment/benefits) office sees my bank balance from redundancy and equity from my house they are going to say spend your own money first and come back when you're skint.

After 30 years of hard work that is not going to happen, so one of my ideas is to buy condos in Pattaya, and rent them out. My worry is that I have been reading this site for the last 3 years and one of the sponsors of this forum is an estate agent. Over those 3 years it appears to me that the properties for rent on the sponsors site are the same ones year in and year out.

I am not looking to make my fortune just simply get my money out of site and make a modest income.

If not Pattaya then are any other areas worth investing property in?

Thanks for any info.

[DonTron]

I do this already, invest in condos and rent them out. I got all condos rented out at the moment, I even got a waiting list on two of them. Thats the good thing about crisis, nobody wants to buy and everyone wants to rent

I am not yet living on the rental income, but I could easily do that since its 4 times bigger than my monthly spendings.

Over those 3 years it appears to me that the properties for rent on the sponsors site are the same ones year in and year out.

Thats usually because the website is not updated. My condos are still on several agents websites even thou I told them to take them down several times.

The art is in buying the right properties here. You want to be VERY careful and make sure the condo project has a good success with rentals. You also wanna be sure you can rent below market value and still be profitable in case the market goes bad. And finally... location-location-location.. dont even consider condos without seaview. People who move to Pattaya to rent and live do not want to be looking into a brick wall or have a noisy beer bar next door. They want to see the ocean and they want to be close to the beach, even the people who cant swim

For rental or sale its pretty simple in Pattaya - Seaview is KING! (I bought some cheap yet nice condos without view, they were very hard to rent out compared to the seaview ones)

[samuibeachcomber]

I do this already, invest in condos and rent them out. I got all condos rented out at the moment, I even got a waiting list on two of them. Thats the good thing about crisis, nobody wants to buy and everyone wants to rent

I am not yet living on the rental income, but I could easily do that since its 4 times bigger than my monthly spendings.

Over those 3 years it appears to me that the properties for rent on the sponsors site are the same ones year in and year out.

Thats usually because the website is not updated. My condos are still on several agents websites even thou I told them to take them down several times.

The art is in buying the right properties here. You want to be VERY careful and make sure the condo project has a good success with rentals. You also wanna be sure you can rent below market value and still be profitable in case the market goes bad. And finally... location-location-location.. dont even consider condos without seaview. People who move to Pattaya to rent and live do not want to be looking into a brick wall or have a noisy beer bar next door. They want to see the ocean and they want to be close to the beach, even the people who cant swim

For rental or sale its pretty simple in Pattaya - Seaview is KING! (I bought some cheap yet nice condos without view, they were very hard to rent out compared to the seaview ones)

good advice,and consequently with seaviews you wont be buying the cheap end of the market which are hard to rent out and harder to sell.

[Chopper]

Au contraire! I have plenty of condos (all rented out) with decent sea views that are certainly not top end in size though the interior is top end. Countless times tenants have asked to purchase said condos. The rental yield is too good to sell.

As ‘DonTron’ says location is very important indeed.

[Spartacus_m]

Have you ever heard fo benefit fraud?

If you receive an income you need to declare that income to the dole agency.

Whether you receive an income in the UK or elsewhere you should declare it. If the benefits agency ever find out you will be taken to court and your assets (worldwide) will be frozen using the Proceeds of Crime Act legislation. You will then be prosecuted and a confiscation order granted by the judge for the total benefit of your crime. This would come under the money laundering heading and so could be considered a lifestyle offence triggering a number of assumptions to be made. In essence you can be taken for a lot of money if caught and you would need to pay the order or face prison.

These are the facts and not my opinion.

Please be careful.

This is my first post so I'll try to make it as brief as possible.

I am currently living and working in London but it is quite likely that I will be made redundant later this year. If this happens then I will sell my house and move back North to be with with family & friends. It is my intention to come and live in Thailand but that could be a couple of years away yet.

The problem will be that once the Dole (unemployment/benefits) office sees my bank balance from redundancy and equity from my house they are going to say spend your own money first and come back when you're skint.

After 30 years of hard work that is not going to happen, so one of my ideas is to buy condos in Pattaya, and rent them out. My worry is that I have been reading this site for the last 3 years and one of the sponsors of this forum is an estate agent. Over those 3 years it appears to me that the properties for rent on the sponsors site are the same ones year in and year out.

I am not looking to make my fortune just simply get my money out of site and make a modest income.

If not Pattaya then are any other areas worth investing property in?

Thanks for any info.

[dfc]

Have you ever heard fo benefit fraud?

If you receive an income you need to declare that income to the dole agency.

Whether you receive an income in the UK or elsewhere you should declare it. If the benefits agency ever find out you will be taken to court and your assets (worldwide) will be frozen using the Proceeds of Crime Act legislation. You will then be prosecuted and a confiscation order granted by the judge for the total benefit of your crime. This would come under the money laundering heading and so could be considered a lifestyle offence triggering a number of assumptions to be made. In essence you can be taken for a lot of money if caught and you would need to pay the order or face prison.

These are the facts and not my opinion.

Please be careful.

I understand where you are coming from but I have no intention of committing any kind of benefit fraud. If I do take this root I will declare any income. My main priority here is protecting my hard earned capital and getting a better rate of return than any bank could currently give me.

It also gives me somewhere to live if/when I do finanly make it over to Thailand.

Can't work out this quoting business....

Edited March 19, 2009 by soundman
Fixed quote formatting.

[Spartacus_m]

In your original post you intimated that you want to get benefits when made redundant but because you have worked for 30 years the benefits agency would not pay out as you have savings and as benefits are means tested you would purchase property/ies in Pattaya to rent out.

There is no difference here - if you have money in a UK bank account for instance that is above the threshold for means testing then you will not receive benefit until that cash is spent and dips below the threshold. If you spend the money on property/ies for instance Pattaya then you will again earn an income from that investment and would not (possibly) be entitled to benefits. depending on what incoem you are receiving in rent.

Its a difficult one as I can see and fully understand that if you are made redundant you want to receive full benefits and why not as you have worked for 30 years but have in that time saved hard and now have a nice pot.

I just wanted to make the point of the post that I made in that to be careful as you seem to be a hard working chap and I wouldn't want to see you fall foul of the 'system'.

I wasn't trying to say you were going to pull the wool over the benefits agencies eyes. i just wanted to state the facts of actions that you may be considering.

The system was not created for hard working people who save hard and try to make a better life and sods law will be you are the one to eb caught out while other lifetime dolites never get caught and work cash in hand and have a better lifestyle than some hardworking citizens.

Good luck. I have a property in Pattaya also and it is a great place to be.

Kind regards

[londonthai]

rent out your london house for cash, move to north and still claim your benefits.

if you don't live in thailand you will have to pay 20% to the agent, for taking care of the property. And you don't have any quarantee that your property will be rented for most of the time (it can rented out by the agent without you knowing about it)

[boogie]

rent out your london house for cash, move to north and still claim your benefits.

if you don't live in thailand you will have to pay 20% to the agent, for taking care of the property. And you don't have any quarantee that your property will be rented for most of the time (it can rented out by the agent without you knowing about it)

20% to the agent ! I rent out a property in the UK which is managed by a very reputable company and I pay 7 % management fees, the highest I was quoted was 10%. Agree you can't guarantee that it will be rented out all the time, although I have been fortunate so far.

[LtCol]

Apart from a ridiculous amount 20% (I was quoted) to pay the agent for looking after your property , check out a couple of posts re 'Fair Properties' etc & hope to he-l you get your rent! !

Even farang owners of agencies do not guarantee square business dealings , in fact maybe the opposite.

Be Prudent,

[dfc]

In your original post you intimated that you want to get benefits when made redundant but because you have worked for 30 years the benefits agency would not pay out as you have savings and as benefits are means tested you would purchase property/ies in Pattaya to rent out.

Spartacus_m, reading the op again, yes, it could be taken that way. My reply wasn't intended to criticize you in any way and you made a valid point which was taken on board. Thanks and good luck to you too mate.

Thanks to everyone who has made an input to this thread, knowledge is a weapon so the more the merrier.

I did see the thread on 'Fair Properties', unfortunately there are people out there just waiting to cash in on somebody else's trust. It's not something I like doing but when it comes to money I always approach the situation from a 'how are you trying to rip me off' point of view.

Nearly got this quoting thing sorted. Just need to get the username in it now...

Soundman, thanks for the previous fix.

Edited March 19, 2009 by dfc

[carlbraun]

Hi,

First, sorry for my English...

Just some thoughts :

Strictly by the law you can't own in your name more than ONE condo in one city, but you can have one in Pattaya, one in Bangkok, one in Phuket... I never heard about someone having problems with that rule yet but you never know what can happen.

Sea view can be a plus but I am not sure that it's so important on your ROI. I am a contractor here in pattaya and actually under the finishing phase of a 40 rooms condominium without sea view ( wiwatresidence.com ) and the developer is quite happy with the sales even with the crisis and they have already some tenants on a waiting list.

One think that can be interesting also is to buy a small piece of land and make your own small building, the ROI should be much more better.

If you plan to buy several condo should they have to be all in the same place ( more easy to manage ) or in distinct buildings ( maybe more safe ).

If you own 4-5 condo to rent out I am quite sure that you can find an agency with a 10% fee.

The local tax office will also help you decreasing your net income.

Normally as a foreigner you can only rent the condo to long term tenants and not by the week ( normally better income ) as it should be considered as a commercial business ( I own five houses in my name and learn this problem )

Anyway : TAKE YOUR TIME !

See many products, several lawyers, several brokers, check condo backgrounds, monthly fees...and make your own opinion of the market.

For a speculation investment banks auctions can also be interesting and I am sure that in the coming months we will have goods opportunities... ( personally I'am looking on pieces of land but it will be the same ).

Good hunt and good luck !

[David H]

I do this already, invest in condos and rent them out. I got all condos rented out at the moment, I even got a waiting list on two of them. Thats the good thing about crisis, nobody wants to buy and everyone wants to rent

I am not yet living on the rental income, but I could easily do that since its 4 times bigger than my monthly spendings.

Over those 3 years it appears to me that the properties for rent on the sponsors site are the same ones year in and year out.

Thats usually because the website is not updated. My condos are still on several agents websites even thou I told them to take them down several times.

The art is in buying the right properties here. You want to be VERY careful and make sure the condo project has a good success with rentals. You also wanna be sure you can rent below market value and still be profitable in case the market goes bad. And finally... location-location-location.. dont even consider condos without seaview. People who move to Pattaya to rent and live do not want to be looking into a brick wall or have a noisy beer bar next door. They want to see the ocean and they want to be close to the beach, even the people who cant swim

For rental or sale its pretty simple in Pattaya - Seaview is KING! (I bought some cheap yet nice condos without view, they were very hard to rent out compared to the seaview ones)

DonTron, I have rental condos with a great seaview, but they only seem to get rented during the high season, Nov-March. The condos are very nice 48sq. mtr.and high floor. How should they be equipped to have the success that you say you are experiencing? I have had mediocre rental return. I am lcated in View talay 6, which should be great for rentals. Any help would be appreciated, also if any else would care to chime in.

[Chopper]

Here is the spec of my rentals:

· 2 Balconies which over look the sea with one having a very nice table and chair set so relax and enjoy the colorful sun sets of Jomtien. There is also a nice view of the Pool from your balcony

· Sliding tinted glass doors for the balconies with large curtains with full sun screening

· 2 Air-conditioning units and ceiling fans. Stand up room fans in each room.

· Luxury living room seating with oversized couch and chairs

· New large flat screen LCD TV and UBC Sat TV hooked up which means a huge selection of crystal clear stations including HBO

· DVD which plays all formats

· New High speed computer with LCD monitor hooked up to a fast ADSL internet line.

· New hand made high rise king size bed with soft bedding

· Mirrors which over look the bed

· Large fully equipped Kitchen

· Micro Wave, Hot water Heater, Rice cooker. Very nice breakfast bar

· Full size refrigerator

· All the cooking equipment one might require

· Luxury Bathroom off the bedroom with a large shower and Jacuzzi style bath tub. Second bathroom with large shower off the kitchen.

· Large supply of towels including a large beach towel. Washing machine in the bathroom

· Built in Room safe

· Room is located close to the lifts

· Second Large screen LCD TV with DVD in bedroom

· Room is very nicely decorated

[David H]

Here is the spec of my rentals:

· 2 Balconies which over look the sea with one having a very nice table and chair set so relax and enjoy the colorful sun sets of Jomtien. There is also a nice view of the Pool from your balcony

· Sliding tinted glass doors for the balconies with large curtains with full sun screening

· 2 Air-conditioning units and ceiling fans. Stand up room fans in each room.

· Luxury living room seating with oversized couch and chairs

· New large flat screen LCD TV and UBC Sat TV hooked up which means a huge selection of crystal clear stations including HBO

· DVD which plays all formats

· New High speed computer with LCD monitor hooked up to a fast ADSL internet line.

· New hand made high rise king size bed with soft bedding

· Mirrors which over look the bed

· Large fully equipped Kitchen

· Micro Wave, Hot water Heater, Rice cooker. Very nice breakfast bar

· Full size refrigerator

· All the cooking equipment one might require

· Luxury Bathroom off the bedroom with a large shower and Jacuzzi style bath tub. Second bathroom with large shower off the kitchen.

· Large supply of towels including a large beach towel. Washing machine in the bathroom

· Built in Room safe

· Room is located close to the lifts

· Second Large screen LCD TV with DVD in bedroom

· Room is very nicely decorated

Thank you Chopper, I do not have internet acess right now. How much for high speed adsl line? I do not have jacuzzis and such, but a nice bathroom . I only have 29inch flatsreens at the moment with sophon cable. One has a very nice kitchen , the other no kitchen, it is set up like hotel, I have a nice table and chairs on the balcony,with ocean view and nice breeze from 26th floor. The condos have everything from forks and knives, microwave, towels blankets and such. I have a question do you use more than one company to handle the rentals? If I was living in thailand i would do that. It is hard to do this from overseas, so I use one agent. Would you have any recommendations on agents to use, I have just recently signed with Condo6, when i move to Pattaya hopefully in a yearor so I'll be able to take a more hands on approach. I forgot to mention that the rooms have nice furniture king size beds, couch and chairs, coffee table, Daikin air with inverter, curtains with blackout etc.

Edited March 19, 2009 by David H

[londonthai]

20% to the agent ! I rent out a property in the UK which is managed by a very reputable company and I pay 7 % management fees

7% - 10% out of £1k-2k property in the UK is far greater profit than 20% of the 10k baht in Thailand.

In the UK agency is happy with low service charges, because the property is rented on a minimum 6 months terms, often for many years. In a touristy places, like Pattaya, properties are rented out rather by weeks or months, than years - so much more work for the agent finding new tenants, dealing with them and maintaining not the best quality buildings.

unless you have several properties, reasonably close to each other and you being there looking after them, you will be loosing money rather than making them.

[Bel Mondo]

Chopper--

Great place!

Got anything Beach Road area? Anything past Dusit?

If so, I'd be interested....for real..

Thanks

[boogie]

20% to the agent ! I rent out a property in the UK which is managed by a very reputable company and I pay 7 % management fees

7% - 10% out of £1k-2k property in the UK is far greater profit than 20% of the 10k baht in Thailand.

In the UK agency is happy with low service charges, because the property is rented on a minimum 6 months terms, often for many years. In a touristy places, like Pattaya, properties are rented out rather by weeks or months, than years - so much more work for the agent finding new tenants, dealing with them and maintaining not the best quality buildings.

unless you have several properties, reasonably close to each other and you being there looking after them, you will be loosing money rather than making them.

Sorry London Thai I misunderstod you. Having read the first line of your post about the London Property I thought you were saying that the OP would have to pay 20% fees for that if it were rented out. Having read your post again I see what you mean.

I would have though that in the current financial climate, that if it is possible for the OP to keep his London property it would be better to rent it out and use that income. Although this would not keep the money out of sight and the rental income alone may not be sufficient to live in Thailand.

Edited March 19, 2009 by boogie

[dfc]

Strictly by the law you can't own in your name more than ONE condo in one city, but you can have one in Pattaya, one in Bangkok, one in Phuket... I never heard about someone having problems with that rule yet but you never know what can happen.

Not heard of that one. I'll be looking into it though.

One think that can be interesting also is to buy a small piece of land and make your own small building, the ROI should be much more better.

Non starter. I can't own land in my name. If I could I'd be there tomorrow.

Thanks for replying, lot's to think about there.

[tropo]

*deleted*

Edited March 20, 2009 by tropo

[PattayaParent]

Strictly by the law you can't own in your name more than ONE condo in one city, but you can have one in Pattaya, one in Bangkok, one in Phuket... I never heard about someone having problems with that rule yet but you never know what can happen.

Not heard of that one. I'll be looking into it though.

I have also 'heard' of this rule but nobody has been able to point to the actual law that 'allegedly' says this.

Do you have any proof positive that you can post carlbraun?

Edited March 20, 2009 by PattayaParent

[Chopper]

Thank you Chopper, I do not have internet acess right now. How much for high speed adsl line? I do not have jacuzzis and such, but a nice bathroom . I only have 29inch flatsreens at the moment with sophon cable. One has a very nice kitchen , the other no kitchen, it is set up like hotel, I have a nice table and chairs on the balcony,with ocean view and nice breeze from 26th floor. The condos have everything from forks and knives, microwave, towels blankets and such. I have a question do you use more than one company to handle the rentals? If I was living in thailand i would do that. It is hard to do this from overseas, so I use one agent. Would you have any recommendations on agents to use, I have just recently signed with Condo6, when i move to Pattaya hopefully in a yearor so I'll be able to take a more hands on approach. I forgot to mention that the rooms have nice furniture king size beds, couch and chairs, coffee table, Daikin air with inverter, curtains with blackout etc.

If you do not have ADSL at present and there is a waiting list you could always try getting Wi-Fi installed with 'True'. (This you can have on a monthly basis-no contract). The cost of my internet connection is 738.30 per month with TOT though that was set up years ago and I think TT@T offer a cheaper service for the same speed now.

Flat Screens you can now get 37 inch for 15,000 so they have come down considerably in price.

Most of my rentals are long term 1-2 years so I don't use agents anymore. My customers that are for a shorter term are all referrals. That said when I started out I used many agents with varying degrees of success including Fair Property's... Did you get paid up to date in the end?

Your condos sound nice though as you say you will find it easier if you are over here to take a more hands on approach. Good luck...

[Chopper]

Chopper--

Great place!

Got anything Beach Road area? Anything past Dusit?

If so, I'd be interested....for real..

Thanks

Bel Mondo, I have not though my brother has. I have sent you a PM.

[Spalpeen]

Go ahead and commit all the benefit fraud you can get away with. The UK government is planning to steal your taxes and hand them over to dodgy bankers like Fred Goodwin, formerly of RBS, and that Indian billionaire who owns Jaguar/Land Rover. This is a far bigger scam than anything you can do.

Investing in residential property in Thailand is probably not wise if you don't live here, are not married to one of the locals and don't have the right connections here. There are two further factors not mentioned by the previous posters. One, consider the GBP/THB exchange rate and how a movement in either direction would affect you. In the past year this has gone from about 67 to 50, which is a large movement. My personal view is that Sterling will decline further, which would be a good thing if your money is in Thailand, but I might be wrong.

Two, consider where property prices are likely to go. These two factors, exchange rate and capital appreciation/depreciation are likely to have a greater bearing on your finances than either rental income or agent fees.

[David H]

Thank you Chopper, I do not have internet acess right now. How much for high speed adsl line? I do not have jacuzzis and such, but a nice bathroom . I only have 29inch flatsreens at the moment with sophon cable. One has a very nice kitchen , the other no kitchen, it is set up like hotel, I have a nice table and chairs on the balcony,with ocean view and nice breeze from 26th floor. The condos have everything from forks and knives, microwave, towels blankets and such. I have a question do you use more than one company to handle the rentals? If I was living in thailand i would do that. It is hard to do this from overseas, so I use one agent. Would you have any recommendations on agents to use, I have just recently signed with Condo6, when i move to Pattaya hopefully in a yearor so I'll be able to take a more hands on approach. I forgot to mention that the rooms have nice furniture king size beds, couch and chairs, coffee table, Daikin air with inverter, curtains with blackout etc.

If you do not have ADSL at present and there is a waiting list you could always try getting Wi-Fi installed with 'True'. (This you can have on a monthly basis-no contract). The cost of my internet connection is 738.30 per month with TOT though that was set up years ago and I think TT@T offer a cheaper service for the same speed now.

Flat Screens you can now get 37 inch for 15,000 so they have come down considerably in price.

Most of my rentals are long term 1-2 years so I don't use agents anymore. My customers that are for a shorter term are all referrals. That said when I started out I used many agents with varying degrees of success including Fair Property's... Did you get paid up to date in the end?

Your condos sound nice though as you say you will find it easier if you are over here to take a more hands on approach. Good luck...

Chopper, I will look into the wi-fi it sounds like the best option for right now, Thanks. I will probably update with 37 LCDS when i move to Pattaya, which will be soon as possible. I am still waiting on the last 18,000 bht. I should know by the end of this month. Do you want to give out any ideas on how to obtain the long term clientle? if you don't, its okay too. I know now that my major problem is having to trust the agents in Thailand. So i am learning as many have before me, and thats okay.I imagine that once I move to pattaya i will be able to establish connections with expats that work there and that will help me to get long term rentals. I have three condos but im only renting two, one is for the wife and me (thai wife) that condo is fitted out very nice, and i will not rent it. I will be adding a kitchen to the second condo, the one that is more like a hotel. I appreciate your taking the time, Thanks David H

[timi2546]

......a modest income.

If not Pattaya then are any other areas worth investing property in?

hi there.

1st thing, be carefull.with everything.

2nd, b patient,

rent place for some

months and see,

is pattaya really for you.

2 weeks or

months arent enough.

my friend bought very expensive

condo in jomtien, with seaview, now

he dont see the sea because new

building is coming between his view and sea....

learning by doing, i have

done that, so far

rented ...i am not that

rich that could buy things hehehhe

[dfc]

Thanks people, lots of interesting views have been posted.

The 20% agency costs was startling and cuts a big hole into any investment.

I'm still interested in pursuing this but maybe more on a 60% UK and 40% Thai approach then build up.

Any more views will be greatly appreciated.

Chopper, DonTron would you be interested in sharing your knowledge/experience over a couple of beers if & when the time comes? (Like I said it could be months/years yet) -

Buy me a beer and I'll listen 'till the cows come home.

[soundman]

Chopper, DonTron would you be interested in sharing your knowledge/experience over a couple of beers if & when the time comes? (Like I said it could be months/years yet) -

Buy me a beer and I'll listen 'till the cows come home.

Shouldn't you be buying them a beer to tap into their welath of experience?

[NanLaew]

Chopper, DonTron would you be interested in sharing your knowledge/experience over a couple of beers if & when the time comes? (Like I said it could be months/years yet) -

Buy me a beer and I'll listen 'till the cows come home.

Shouldn't you be buying them a beer to tap into their welath of experience?

Maybe this is lesson #1 of the OP's get rich quick scheme!

[Beardog]

Here is the spec of my rentals:

· 2 Balconies which over look the sea with one having a very nice table and chair set so relax and enjoy the colorful sun sets of Jomtien. There is also a nice view of the Pool from your balcony

· Sliding tinted glass doors for the balconies with large curtains with full sun screening

· 2 Air-conditioning units and ceiling fans. Stand up room fans in each room.

· Luxury living room seating with oversized couch and chairs

· New large flat screen LCD TV and UBC Sat TV hooked up which means a huge selection of crystal clear stations including HBO

· DVD which plays all formats

· New High speed computer with LCD monitor hooked up to a fast ADSL internet line.

· New hand made high rise king size bed with soft bedding

· Mirrors which over look the bed

· Large fully equipped Kitchen

· Micro Wave, Hot water Heater, Rice cooker. Very nice breakfast bar

· Full size refrigerator

· All the cooking equipment one might require

· Luxury Bathroom off the bedroom with a large shower and Jacuzzi style bath tub. Second bathroom with large shower off the kitchen.

· Large supply of towels including a large beach towel. Washing machine in the bathroom

· Built in Room safe

· Room is located close to the lifts

· Second Large screen LCD TV with DVD in bedroom

· Room is very nicely decorated

Nice digs ..... well done!