Multiple Work Permits Necessary

[MattFS218]

I have a question about legally working in Thailand.

Lets say I have two part time jobs teaching english at two different locations and for two different companies.

I also have a par-time job doing computer related consulting for a local real estate dealer.

I am an American and have a non-imm B visa. My question is, do I need a WP for each of my part-time jobs or can I have only one WP tied to a single company...and "ADD" my other jobs to that already existing WP?

My TEFL (teaching english course) teacher said that once you have a WP you are valid to work anywhere ...but reading the information on thaivisa.com states otherwise. Please help me with my confusion.

Matt

[mbkudu]

Just keep the other 'jobs' under your hat and go on your merry way.

[kenkannif]

My TEFL (teaching english course) teacher said that once you have a WP you are valid to work anywhere ...but reading the information on thaivisa.com states otherwise. Please help me with my confusion.

Matt

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who told you that as it's totally incorrect and they should know better???

Most WPs are location specific so even if you are working for a language school and they've got you a WP if they send you out (and you work in house for them) chances are you're not covered (location wise) for one of them. Naughty, but as MBK says if you don't overly advertise it you should be okay!

[MattFS218]

What would you recommend if I want to advertise the fact I'm a private english tutor....If I have a work permit working with a specific school?

matt

[kenkannif]

Be careful with your advertising is what I'd say!

And please who told you that a WP would cover you everywhere, just so I can tell people to avoid them!

[Sunny Valentine]

Most WPs are location specific so even if you are working for a language school and they've got you a WP if they send you out (and you work in house for them) chances are you're not covered (location wise) for one of them.

So, imagine you have a WP as director of a company. Does that mean you are not allowed to attend meetings with other directors, members of your staff, employees from other companies and all such, in places other than your locaation of the company as is written on the WP?

Even a visit to the tax advisor, auditor, or bookkeeper (at his respective office) would then constituate a breach of the Work permit?

Tell me this can't be true!?

And if it is not true, where's the fine line between these agendas and the visit of a teacher to one of their pupil's houses, or other branch of the school, for work?

Sunny

[kenkannif]

I can't speak for Company Directors (but yes in theory...(unless you can get a some kind of floating WP?) they can't really work anywhere that's not mentioned on their work permit, although I'm sure some do) etc. 'cos I don't know (although I 'heard' of someone high up in a big company getting into trouble for doing just that, working where they weren't covered to work) and it is possible to get multiple locations on WPs! But teachers will generally only be covered to work at the location of their school (this mainly applies to language schools). So if ABC school employs you and gets you a WP, 9 times out of 10 it will be to teach on their premises and NOT the government school, company, individuals home etc. where they may well send you. This is also one of the reasons why a lot of language schools can't get WPs for their teachers, 'cos (generally) it's done on a ratio of one WP to every classroom they have on site (sending teachers out to a goverment school, or a business class etc. is not classed as a different classroom) so you may find that although you have 50 teachers working for you, you can only get 30 work permits 'cos that's how many classrooms you have in your building (and I don't know any schools that have invested in 100 classrooms, but only use 50 off them!).

I'd say however a teacher would have less chance for being busted for it (although is it a risk worth taking?) than a 'normal' worker would (as to an extent they're not taking work away from Thais)!

I doubt many (if any) teachers are legally covered to teach privately in a students house!

Edited January 18, 2005 by kenkannif

[Sunny Valentine]

So, there is a Catch 22 situation waiting to happen to all WP holders:

(I have to assume that dealing with tax officials as well as the registration and deal with Work Permits is considered as "working" in the sense of Thai law ....

You go to register / extend your Work Permit, at the office you are told they cannot extend / issue it as you are cought breaking the rules by going there ....

Amazing Thailand. I know it has never happened and probably won't happen, but looks like this is the legal side to it.

Also, I guess a teacher taking some stuff home for correction, or even working out tutorial plans or tests for the class while at home is in breach of his work permit!?

What a brilliant law!

Sunny

Edited January 18, 2005 by Sunny Valentine

[kenkannif]

Well I don't think you'd get busted for seeing your tax man (although who knows) as in some ways that's like getting arrested for extending your Visa at Imm (the tax man is working, you're not per se IMO! And it's something you have to do). I suppose in theory you could get done as a teacher for taking work home with you, but again I doubt it would ever happen.

[Wanraya]

As far as I know it isn't possible to have separate work permits for each job. You can however add new employers on to your permit.

I had this problem a few years ago. I worked for ECC and got a part time job for another school. The owner of the ECC branch however refused to hand over my work permit saying it was not company policy. We fell out over it and I ended up leaving at the end of my contract.

I will never again let an employer hold on to my work permit. You have to go to the Dept of Work to collect. Don't hand it over it's better in your hands than theirs.

[MattFS218]

As far as I know it isn't possible to have separate work permits for each job. You can however add new employers on to your permit.

I had this problem a few years ago. I worked for ECC and got a part time job for another school. The owner of the ECC branch however refused to hand over my work permit saying it was not company policy. We fell out over it and I ended up leaving at the end of my contract.

I will never again let an employer hold on to my work permit. You have to go to the Dept of Work to collect. Don't hand it over it's better in your hands than theirs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd like to know about this "adding more employers" to your work permit section. I think this is what my TEFL teacher was talking about.

Also, while you brought up ECC...do you have any comments, etc you can give me about them. I'm considering working at one of them.

Matt

[kenkannif]

It won't happen Matt mate, don't waste your breath! Your TEFL teacher was basically wrong, as I've never seen (although I'm sure there are a few around!) any teacher with more than one job or location in their work permit. Plus there's a good chance both schools would have to get you a TL. And also as has been mentioned as schools are tied to the classroom to WP rule, why would they mess themselves up and deplete their quota of WPs just to give you a WP if you're only working for them part-time (and one of your jobs must be part-time I'd say?). And the bottom line is it's hard enough to just get ONE work permit, your chances of getting two are slim to non-existent! You can talk about it, and find out how to do it etc.....but at the end of the day the school has to pretty much do it all for you....and IMO they won't or won't know how to! I mean it's possible to get a WP without a degree and yet 95% of schools won't!

I've just noticed both your jobs are part-time. Generally if you're doing less than 15-20 hours at a school they won't even entertain (sp?) the notion of getting you a WP. You'll also probably need a degree, do you have one?

And have either of these schools actually offered you a WP? If not you'll be doing another Non-imm B run either back in the States (better) or when you return, 'cos it means they probably ain't going to get you one in time!

Also take into account that teachers that teach maths or a different subject to EFL/ESL should have a TL or WP (I forget which) that applies to this etc. To be 100% legit here as teacher....well lets just say it's pretty hard at the mid-range to lower end of the scale!

ECC are okay IMO! I've got a mate or two that works for them and while they're not the greatest....they do seem to pay on time etc. Not a bad gig for a newbie to find their feet!

Your TEFL provider should have answered most if not all of these questions!

Edited January 18, 2005 by kenkannif

[p_brownstone]

According to the absolute letter of the law you are only allowed to work at the address shown on your Work Permit, although this is patently ridiculous - I run my own Company here and have to visit Customers, by doing this I am technically in breach of the regulations.

There has actually been an instance where a Farang was in trouble for contravening this regulation - the Australian Receivers who were employed to sort out the mess at TPI had Work Permits which tied them to their own offices in Bangkok, the major shareholder of TPI - who is in a long running dispute with Creditors and Receivers etc. filed a Police complaint and 2 or 3 of the Farang were arrested because they "worked" at TPI Offices and at the Refinery etc. in Rayong.

T I T

Patrick

[Digger]

According to the absolute letter of the law you are only allowed to work at the address shown on your Work Permit, although this is patently ridiculous - I run my own Company here and have to visit Customers, by doing this I am technically in breach of the regulations.

There has actually been an instance where a Farang was in trouble for contravening this regulation - the Australian Receivers who were employed to sort out the mess at TPI had Work Permits which tied them to their own offices in Bangkok, the major shareholder of TPI - who is in a long running dispute with Creditors and Receivers etc. filed a Police complaint and 2 or 3 of the Farang were arrested because they "worked" at TPI Offices and at the Refinery etc. in Rayong.

T I T

Patrick

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That was the example that sprung to my mind when reading through this thread, however I actually thought that the technicality they got them on was not so much location but working outside the scope of their work permit. i.e they were 'directors' in law of TPI, however their work permits stated 'consultants' for the management company which has no legal connection with TPI. So in essence, they were working for TPI and signing documents as company directors but without the work permit. Of course huge political influence being wielded on this case, but if that is correct, difficult for anyone to argue in law that they were working outside of the scope of their work permit, particularly as they were signing company documents. Not many 'consultants' actually sign documents for their clients.

[snowleopard]

ECC are okay IMO! I've got a mate or two that works for them and while they're not the greatest....

So...which is the greatest?

[kenkannif]

I don't know, I suppose it depends on what you're looking (for the greatest payers, the greatest support, the greatest easiest job for good money etc.) and what kind of school you're referring to (International, Uni, private language school etc). I suppose the British Council is probably one of the best (kind of) language schools (although it's a government thingy really) and you don't have to pay any tax (hooray!).

[alanw]

Dear MattFS218,

One 'lesson' you need to take on seriously, don't listen to the English course director or whatever he / she is called in regard to the details of work permits and visas.

At most of these places (places to gain language teaching qualifications, and actual English language schools) the staff will often be quick to give advice, but in most cases their real knowledge in these subjects is very limited.

Further to this you can find endless examples of schools deliberately giving wrong advice, to their advantage.

You might need to be careful about gaining a work permit from a specific school, and then working freelance. Most schools have a negative attitude to this set-up. They usually take the line that they have provided the work permit and you should therefore be totally loyal to that school and only that school.

Getting initial intoduction to students thru a course arranged by the school (which has provided your work permit) and then offering further private tuition to same students is strongly frowned on by most schools, and will often bring a hefty fine or some other form of punishment.

You will get much more accurate and realistic advise from an agency* which is expert in this area, and also from this forum. (* I don't mean a shop front which has big lettering all over their window offering: marriage, work permit, condom reconditioning and 200 other items.)

Good luck.

[kenkannif]

At most of these places (places to gain language teaching qualifications, and actual English language schools) the staff will often be quick to give advice, but in most cases their real knowledge in these subjects is very limited.

No, only some of them. The ones that don't make the effort to know these things as they should!

You will get much more accurate and realistic advise from an agency* which is expert in this area, and also from this forum. (* I don't mean a shop front which has big lettering all over their window offering: marriage, work permit, condom reconditioning and 200 other items.)

I'd disagree most agencies deal with business people rather than teachers, so they probably (and I know this due to personal experience) will have less of an idea on how to go about getting a TL, WP and Visa extension for a teacher (I've had a few contact me to ask how) than the providers that you comment on in first part of your post! They'll probably tell you they know though

To be honest there's no 'real' need to know what the process is, as 9 times out of 10 you'll need the school to do pretty much all of it (the process that is) for you!

Although the rest of your post Alan is right on the ball IMO!

Edited January 19, 2005 by kenkannif