2009 Formula One Season

[rixalex]

With regards to Damien, are you saying that as it had happened on several other occassions and very little was done about it then it's ok,

That's how i read it too. The fact that Schumey's underhand move decided a Championship makes it all the more amazing that no action was taken. Still, going by how the FIA seem to work these days - changing the results of races days after they have finished - perhaps they could go back and review all race results?

[wackysleet]

F1 is broadcast to millions of people in hundreds of different countries. Why do you think the BBC has the clout to dictate race time? After all, when the BBC had it before they didn't.

You are right about the ratings though. The change of time was obviously done for the benefit of Europe as a whole.

And old Bernie in particular but having said that Rixalex do you really believe that the BBC could get the time of the race altered, more likely that Bernie took the view that there are some very very large audiences in the vacinity os Malaysia that could be even more profitable to him than Europe as a whole, why not move the races that are likely to suffer torrential storms as in Asia to times of the season when there will be less precipitation, those of us living in S.E.Asia know full well about rain.

[rixalex]

Rixalex do you really believe that the BBC could get the time of the race altered,

Wackysleet mate, i was saying the opposite.

[F1fanatic]

With regards to Damien, are you saying that as it had happened on several other occassions and very little was done about it then it's ok,

That's how i read it too. The fact that Schumey's underhand move decided a Championship makes it all the more amazing that no action was taken. Still, going by how the FIA seem to work these days - changing the results of races days after they have finished - perhaps they could go back and review all race results?

No action was taken because at the time it wasn't the unforgivable sin that it is now. It certainly wasn't the first time it had happened! Plus, IIRC it wasn't entirely clear whether or not it was deliberate - it certainly couldn't be proved. As I said in an earlier post, even Damon didn't complain until Jerez '97 (IIRC) - by then opinions had changed about what was acceptable.

Wackysleet - Jerez '97? you're right - I was wrong to say I'd defend what happened. Unfortunately I think JV is a waste of space so find it hard to summon up any moral outrage about the incident. MS lost the race and all of his points for the season. What more could the FIA do?

MS was a GREAT racer, but he pushed things to the limit of acceptability and, in the heat of the moment, sometimes beyond in his determination to win.

I too think its unfortunate that the FIA didn't bother to check all the facts before accepting Hamilton and Maclaren's lies and punishing Trulli. Hardly evidence of a conspiracy against Hamilton which so many people are claiming!

[wackysleet]

Rixalex do you really believe that the BBC could get the time of the race altered,

Wackysleet mate, i was saying the opposite.

Sorry mate my apologies, miss read the post, another alzheimers moment.

[wackysleet]

With regards to Damien, are you saying that as it had happened on several other occassions and very little was done about it then it's ok,

That's how i read it too. The fact that Schumey's underhand move decided a Championship makes it all the more amazing that no action was taken. Still, going by how the FIA seem to work these days - changing the results of races days after they have finished - perhaps they could go back and review all race results?

No action was taken because at the time it wasn't the unforgivable sin that it is now. It certainly wasn't the first time it had happened! Plus, IIRC it wasn't entirely clear whether or not it was deliberate - it certainly couldn't be proved. As I said in an earlier post, even Damon didn't complain until Jerez '97 (IIRC) - by then opinions had changed about what was acceptable.

Wackysleet - Jerez '97? you're right - I was wrong to say I'd defend what happened. Unfortunately I think JV is a waste of space so find it hard to summon up any moral outrage about the incident. MS lost the race and all of his points for the season. What more could the FIA do?

MS was a GREAT racer, but he pushed things to the limit of acceptability and, in the heat of the moment, sometimes beyond in his determination to win.

I too think its unfortunate that the FIA didn't bother to check all the facts before accepting Hamilton and Maclaren's lies and punishing Trulli. Hardly evidence of a conspiracy against Hamilton which so many people are claiming!

F1fanatic, my view is lets sort out the wrongdoers and enjoy the sport we love, I am a little concerned about Hamiltons emerging sense of arrogance now that he doen't have Ron Denis as his mentor.

[rixalex]

As I said in an earlier post, even Damon didn't complain until Jerez '97 (IIRC) - by then opinions had changed about what was acceptable.

I personally don't read anything into the fact that Damon didn't complain.

Damon Hill has always been a quiet, reserved gentleman and i think the incident was so blatantly unfair and unsportsmanly, it didn't really require any comment from him. He gracefully decided to hold his tongue and let the pictures do the talking - and that they did.

Only deluded Schuey fans dispute the evidence of the onboard camera which clearly showed him suddenly turning sharply for no apparent reason - that is apart from the obvious reason!

[onzestan]

Just a few thoughts on the F1 season so far in view of what some posters on this topic have expressed.

This is entirely my point of view so feel free to disagree.

Martin Whitmarsh found it necessary to bring Schumacher in to his defence of Hamilton, as have different posters here.

Contrary to what has been said, Michael Schumacher and or his behaviour on and of the racetracks has absolutely no bearing on Hamilton's behaviour.

Hamilton lied to the stewards, and if this was on orders or not is not important. It shows a lot about his integrity as a person.

Those of you that claim that the car makes little or no difference, just look at the final standings of season 2008.

Jenson Button 3 points - Rubens Barrichello 11 points, total 14 points.

How many points do they have now after 1 and a half race, right 25 points. Case closed.

After all what has happened with McLaren in the last few years, and now this I hope the F1 throws the book at them, and I'm not talking about monetary fines.

Just my 2 cents.

No malice intended.

Onzestan

Edited April 11, 2009 by onzestan

[rixalex]

Just a few thoughts on the F1 season so far in view of what some posters on this topic have expressed.

This is entirely my point of view so feel free to disagree.

Martin Whitmarsh found it necessary to bring Schumacher in to his defence of Hamilton, as have different posters here.

Contrary to what has been said, Michael Schumacher and or his behaviour on and of the racetracks has absolutely no bearing on Hamilton's behaviour.

Hamilton lied to the stewards, and if this was on orders or not is not important. It shows a lot about his integrity as a person.

Those of you that claim that the car makes little or no difference, just look at the final standings of season 2008.

Jenson Button 3 points - Rubens Barrichello 11 points, total 14 points.

How many points do they have now after 1 and a half race, right 25 points. Case closed.

After all what has happened with McLaren in the last few years, and now this I hope the F1 throws the book at them, and I'm not talking about monetary fines.

Just my 2 cents.

No malice intended.

Onzestan

I don't think anything that Schumacher did serves in any way as a defence for what Lewis has done, but i think it's natural when someone has broken the rules to look at past examples and how they were dealt with. Of course the examples are very different in nature but they do concern a lack of sportsmanship and a lack of ethics.

When Schumacher parked his car up in the middle of the track in Monaco during qualifying and said that it stalled due to a mysterious problem with his car, despite telemetry saying otherwise, did he lie to the FIA as Hamilton has done? I think yes but maybe it's hard to prove - or maybe because he was Schumacher and he was in a Ferrari the FIA didn't want to make a meal out of it.

As far as the car versus driver argument goes - of course the car has a great bearing on it - can't believe anyone would say otherwise. The best guage of skill in a driver is to compare them with their team-mate.

[onzestan]

I don't think anything that Schumacher did serves in any way as a defence for what Lewis has done, but i think it's natural when someone has broken the rules to look at past examples and how they were dealt with. Of course the examples are very different in nature but they do concern a lack of sportsmanship and a lack of ethics.

When Schumacher parked his car up in the middle of the track in Monaco during qualifying and said that it stalled due to a mysterious problem with his car, despite telemetry saying otherwise, did he lie to the FIA as Hamilton has done? I think yes but maybe it's hard to prove - or maybe because he was Schumacher and he was in a Ferrari the FIA didn't want to make a meal out of it.

As far as the car versus driver argument goes - of course the car has a great bearing on it - can't believe anyone would say otherwise. The best guage of skill in a driver is to compare them with their team-mate.

Here you go again looking for excuses for Hamilton. Is this maybe because he's british?

He has lied repeatedly to the stewards and you don't have to believe me, just read the articles on formula1.com.

As to your other point to compare teammates is invalid if team orders have been issued, of which McLaren (just ask David Coulthard)has been guilty of repeatedly, as has Ferrari in the Schumacher era.

And no I'm not a Schumacher fan, far from it, but again he has absolutely nothing to do with the integrity of Lewis Hamilton.

And I don't believe one minute that he's sorry for what he did, he's sorry for having been caught.

End of my rant.

No malice intended

Onzestan

[rixalex]

I don't think anything that Schumacher did serves in any way as a defence for what Lewis has done

Here you go again looking for excuses for Hamilton.

Huh??? Read the underlined bit above again.

"Is this maybe because he's british?"

Well last season you always took the side against Hamilton and i did wonder whether your feelings against him had anything to do with him being British. You denied it and i accept that, but i do in general find Europeans outside of the UK do for whatever reason, seem to have an anti UK thing going on. Perhaps it's because the UK is the base for many of the F1 teams and that makes them jealous.

He has lied repeatedly to the stewards

Repeatedly? Really?

As to your other point to compare teammates is invalid if team orders have been issued, of which McLaren (just ask David Coulthard)has been guilty of repeatedly, as has Ferrari in the Schumacher era.

Not saying that i agree with team orders, but the driver who gets preferential treatment is always the better and the faster driver. They wouldn't after all be giving preferential treatment to the slower driver now would they?

[MJo]

Well last season you always took the side against Hamilton and i did wonder whether your feelings against him had anything to do with him being British. You denied it and i accept that, but i do in general find Europeans outside of the UK do for whatever reason, seem to have an anti UK thing going on. Perhaps it's because the UK is the base for many of the F1 teams and that makes them jealous.

I don't think so mate. It's more reaction to your comments regarding Hamilton. I mean all the germans loved Schumi, now when Hamilton won last year he's hero in everyone's eyes in UK. But not so much in Italy as Ferrari "lost" and all spanish hate him as he was caught in a fight with Alonso who again is the national hero having won couple of times.

I mean natural thing for people to be fans and support their own country men. You can find the same thing in every sport, think of Liverpool and ManU supporter discussing offsides and penalties during the match

[rixalex]

Well last season you always took the side against Hamilton and i did wonder whether your feelings against him had anything to do with him being British. You denied it and i accept that, but i do in general find Europeans outside of the UK do for whatever reason, seem to have an anti UK thing going on. Perhaps it's because the UK is the base for many of the F1 teams and that makes them jealous.

I don't think so mate. It's more reaction to your comments regarding Hamilton. I mean all the germans loved Schumi, now when Hamilton won last year he's hero in everyone's eyes in UK. But not so much in Italy as Ferrari "lost" and all spanish hate him as he was caught in a fight with Alonso who again is the national hero having won couple of times.

I mean natural thing for people to be fans and support their own country men. You can find the same thing in every sport, think of Liverpool and ManU supporter discussing offsides and penalties during the match

Very true mate. I admit i am biased in favour of Hamilton, but bias or no bias, i still think he's the best racer out there and i think he proves that almost every time he races - those that can't see that i think are biased against him - quite possibly for the reasons you state.

I might add that although i disliked Schuey, i do think he was the best of his generation and quite possibly the best of all time.

[onzestan]

He has lied repeatedly to the stewards

Repeatedly? Really?

Just to make my position clear plse read following article : http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/4/9159.html

in which the FIA states that Hamilton lied on march 29th to the stewards, and again on april 2nd at a new hearing by the stewards.

No malice intended.

Onzestan

[rixalex]

He has lied repeatedly to the stewards

Repeatedly? Really?

in which the FIA states that Hamilton lied on march 29th to the stewards, and again on april 2nd at a new hearing by the stewards.

So by repeatedly you meant twice?

Technically correct i guess, but repeatedly to me suggested a larger number than two.

[kartman]

Have just found ESPN a replacement commentater for Steve Slater-You Tube Renault f1 Dubai autodrome crash-oilydan, would liven up the next Vettel/Kubica crash .

[TBWG]

Raikkonen middle of a GP, Tshirt,shorts and choc ice - brilliant!

Hi KM

Are you sure ... I thought it was a cornetto

TBWG

[rixalex]

Raikkonen middle of a GP, Tshirt,shorts and choc ice - brilliant!

Hi KM

Are you sure ... I thought it was a cornetto

TBWG

My money's on a Feast!

It was a truly bizarre moment that's for sure. Perhaps it was in part what the Ferrari boss was refering to this week when he said he didn't want his team to become the joke of the paddock.

[F1fanatic]

Raikkonen middle of a GP, Tshirt,shorts and choc ice - brilliant!

Hi KM

Are you sure ... I thought it was a cornetto

TBWG

My money's on a Feast!

It was a truly bizarre moment that's for sure. Perhaps it was in part what the Ferrari boss was refering to this week when he said he didn't want his team to become the joke of the paddock.

What made it even funnier is the Ferrari spokesperson telling everyone that KR was ready for the race to resume, blissfully unaware that he was in shorts and T shirt with an ice-cream and coke!

As far as LH is concerned - he lied (and was caught doing so), he's been punished, and nobody (including the FIA) want to lose the entertainment value of a top name. I'm willing to bet money that he will not be penalised further race-wise.

MS was not believed by the powers that be in Monaco 2006, and was punished accordingly.

Edited April 12, 2009 by F1fanatic

[F1fanatic]

p.s. the difference is that Hamilton was initially believed by the stewards, and Trulli was penalised. MS was obviously not believed, and received an immediate penalty.

I find it very strange to reconcile Trulli's penalty with Whitmarsh's latest comments that it was obvious that Hamilton was lying on Sunday. If that is so, how come they accepted his version of events and penalised Trulli without checking the evidence first???

[ClaytonSeymour]

It's quite clear; Hamilton is a liar & Ryan has been made the fall guy (perhaps a willing one) in an attempt by McLaren to escape further sanctions from the FIA. I sincerely hope that both Hamilton & McLaren receive further punishment.

[JetsetBkk]

It's quite clear; Hamilton is a liar & Ryan has been made the fall guy...

I think that's arse about face.

[Mosha]

It's quite clear; Hamilton is a liar & Ryan has been made the fall guy (perhaps a willing one) in an attempt by McLaren to escape further sanctions from the FIA. I sincerely hope that both Hamilton & McLaren receive further punishment.

And I sincerely hope that sometime in the very near future, the teams grow some balls. Tell Bernie et Al to piss off, and start a breakaway season. The FIA are killing it as a spectacle, at planetf1 site it was said Bernie was very satisfied with the way the event turned out. He saw no problem that we only saw half a race. Plonker.

[rixalex]

It's quite clear; Hamilton is a liar & Ryan has been made the fall guy...

I think that's arse about face.

Yes, completely arse about face. I don't think you understand the roles within an F1 team Clayton.

Ryan was a very senior employee and it was his job to effectively work like a bit like a lawyer in the sense of knowing all the rules and regulations and giving his client, read driver, the best possible advice. And as with lawyers, although they certainly shouldn't advocate lying, they do often advise giving a version of events that paints the driver most favourably and perhaps being a little cute with the facts.

Of course sadly in Lewis's case it went a bit beyond that. I say sadly but i have the feeling many F1 fans, like some on this thread, have absolutely loved the chance to have a dig at Lewis and are happily baying for more penalties. Stop your baying - the FIA are obviously anti McClaren anyway so i'm sure you'll see many more penalties coming their way this year to keep you happy.

[Mosha]

Stand by to have the season turned on it's head. The decission is due tomorrow I think on the spoiler fin that the likes of Brawn and Williams are using.

[MJo]

Anyone know when the diffusor decision is going to be annouced ? The hearing was scheduled for today ?

[Mosha]

Like I already said, I think the decision is due tomorrow afternoon. However that's Paris time so it will be evening here.

[rixalex]

Congrats to Vettel! A flawless drive from start to finish.

It's good that Brawn aren't having it all their own way too.

What an interesting season so far - may it continue!

[wackysleet]

Congrats to Vettel! A flawless drive from start to finish.

It's good that Brawn aren't having it all their own way too.

What an interesting season so far - may it continue!

rixalex I told you a couple of weeks back that Vettel was as good as anyone out there, this season will hopefully prove it, but how embarrassing for the Ferrari team.

[rixalex]

Congrats to Vettel! A flawless drive from start to finish.

It's good that Brawn aren't having it all their own way too.

What an interesting season so far - may it continue!

rixalex I told you a couple of weeks back that Vettel was as good as anyone out there, this season will hopefully prove it, but how embarrassing for the Ferrari team.

Yes you did. I need a little more convincing though. Let's give it until the end of the season and see where we are.

The Red Bulls were obviously in a class of their own, but that said, in the conditions it was a great drive - take nothing away from the lad.

As for Ferrari, yes it's not looking too good is it. Did KR have a problem or was he just crap in the wet like last year?