Growing organic fruit, vegetables and other crops

[Lickey]

A tottally organic tree, The Tamarind,,

20 years ago my mrs bought 65 tamarind plants, her and mum planted them, in about 5 years they were fruiting, I asked mrs, did you weed around them, water them, fertilize them? no on all 3 counts, have they ever been fertilised? once, about 7 years ago, have you used weedkiller under the trees? no need, nothing grows under the tree, only the most vigorus creeper, if it climbs the tree, just cut base and it will die.

2007 was a very special year, 46,000bht and we did nothing, 3 pickings over 2.5 months by 30 odd people and job done, but 2008 in May we had a really big storm, high winds, just when all the trees were covered in bloom,there didnt seem to be many pods so this year we decided to sell at the salon, in 3 weeks 7.890bht, now thats total profit, no labour, only mine, picking and sorting,

The tree im sure fertilisers itself, the leaves and dead wood drop onto the ground and decompose, providing nitrogen, and when pruned, the wood makes the best charcoal, and the green leaves can be used for animal fodder,

The fruit is best eaten ripe, or shelled and steamed for 15 mins, its high in vitamin B1, and a mild laxative,

So Tamarind gets my vote as the best organic tree, does anybody know of another tree with the same qualities?

Cheers Lickey,,

[jandtaa]

Hi folks

Organic fruit and vegetables from the tropics

just came across this pdf published by the UN which gives a good overview of organic farming in the tropics everything from the basic philosophy, soil fertility and nutrient management, integrated pest control and weed management, water conservation/irrigation as well as specific methods for growing ; citrus,coconut,mango,guava,pineapple,lychee,banana,beans,lettuce,tomato,peppers,

aubergine,cucumber,asparagus,sweetcorn etc...etc. organically. A great starting point for newbies or folks considering going organic as well as more indepth info for the more experienced grower !! For example we all know worms are good for the soil but did you know " Their excrements contain 5x more nitrogen, 7x more phosphate, 11x more potash and 2x more magnesia and calcium than normal earth." ?? 

Happy reading  !!

Jandtaa

[Smithson]

^ Yes, a great publication. Luckily I've got a printer with ink tanks, so will print it off to be made into a book. I don't suppose you know of any PDF's on vermiculture? I've got plenty of worms now, the problem is finding food for them and sperating the castings. I'm thinking about setting up concrete rings is several places and then having plants/trees around them, so the roots can go in underneath.

Regarding mulch, here is a pic of a papaya I've got. Several of my papayas are like this, while others are yellow and loosing leaves. The difference seems to be the mulch. The ones that are on their own with only a little mulch aren't doing so well, while those inside an area with mulch spread all around are tall and healthy, although there's not a great deal of fruit. Are there any specials requirements for papaya? I've been told they don't like too much fertilizer.

The best ones are those where I've spread lots of coco husks and then thrown other organic matter on top. I like the coco husks because they don't break down too quickly. I can also get them for free.

[jandtaa]

Re: papaya

Papaya fertilizer management -

The plant needs continuous fertilization as fruiting is continuous upon maturity. Recommended rate of fertilizers for papaya is as follows: (It should be modified depending upon the soil conditions.)

Basal fertilisation:

Apply 5 tons of fermented compost per acre (or 1kg per square meter) before planting or when forming beds. The same dose should be repeated every year for the adult plants. Adequate and efficient manuring of young and mature papaya tree is essential to maintain the health of the papaya and to obtain high yields. It is a heavy feeder crop. 

200–250g each of N, P2O5 and K2O are recommended for getting high yield. Significant uptake of the nutrients is observed after flowering. 

Papaya responds positively to application of nitrogen, phosphorus, potash and to several micronutrients. Since papaya grows vigorously and continuously, it has a continuous demand for nutrients. They must be supplied to keep it in good health

and high bearing. 

Biofertilisers: 

Biofertilizers are carrier based preparations containing beneficial

micro organisms in a viable state intended for seed or soil application and designed to improve soil fertility and help plant growth by increasing the number and biological activity of desired microorganisms in the root environment.

Apply biofertilizers viz.,Vesicular Arbuscular Mycorrhizae (VAM), Azospirillum and Phosphobacteria each @ 20 g per plant and again six months after planting.

Manuring in the Nursery

• Adequate manuring of young seedlings is of the greatest importance towards the production of vigorous healthy seedlings.

• Do not apply chemical manures to papaya seed nursery at the time of planting as high concentration of nutrient solutions in the soil coming in contact with the tender roots of the seedlings may cause permanent damage.

Manuring at the time of Planting

• Both organic and inorganic manures are beneficial to the papaya plant. Apply only dry and well rotten cattle manure @ 4-5 kg per pit.

Others: 

Apply 0.25-0.5kg borax per 100 plants right before dry season in soil which is boron- deficient. For the young trees, apply compound fertilizers in the trench (10 cm deep and 15 cm wide) around the outer of tree crown, then fill back the soil. As for the adult trees, apply in the trench (10 cm x 15 cm) at both sides of the tree and fill back the soil, or top dress at furrows after irrigation. 

Method of application -

Take a circular basin evenly around papaya trees at 30 cm away from the stem and at 15 cm deep. Apply the fertilizer/manures around the basin and mix well with the soil without disturbing the roots. Irrigate immediately to dissolve the fertilizers in the

soil. Take care such that no fertilizer comes in direct contact with any above ground parts of the plant.

 

"Nitrogen deficiency symptoms of 'Cariflora' papaya leaves included a progressive change in leaf color from green to light green to yellowish green to completely yellow in color of only the older leaves (Figure 4.9). Omission of N also reduced the size and shape of the leaves. However, there was no significant difference among N petiole nutrient levels of either the complete or omission treatment (Table 4.3). In general, nutrient levels of the leaf lamina were higher and more variable than the petiole levels for all the elements (Table 4.3). This was consistent with what researchers in Hawaii have found (Awada and Long, 1971a). From their work it was found that analysis of papaya petioles were a more reliable indicator of plant nutrient status than papaya leaf tissue.

Potassium deficiency symptoms were quick to appear on the mature leaves and included pronounced raised veins on the undersides of leaves, dark green color, and strap-like distortion to the lobes of the leaf (Figure 4.10). There was no significant difference among N petiole nutrient levels of complete and minus N treated plants (Table 4.3). The potassium nutrient concentration was significantly lower in leaf and petiole tissue of the minus K treatment (Table 4.3). Potassium nutrient levels were significantly lower in the minus K treatment. In general, nutrient levels were lower in petioles of the nutrient omission treatments than in petioles of the complete treatments.

Magnesium deficiency symptoms of 'Cariflora' papaya appeared first in the older leaves and included mottling (light yellow and dark green areas) which sometimes coalesced forming larger chlorotic areas and general chlorosis with intervenal areas remaining green (Figure 4.11). Magnesium was found to be significantly lower for both the leaf and petiole analysis of the omission treatments (Table 4.3).

Iron deficiency symptoms of 'Cariflora' papaya first appeared on younger leaves and included gradual intervenal chlorosis and stunting of leaves (Figure 4.12). Papaya petiole and leaf Fe levels of the omission treatment were lower in concentration than the complete treatment but not significantly reduced (Table 4.3).

Zinc deficiency symptoms of 'Cariflora' papaya included pronounced raised, light green veins on the upper and lower leaf surface, distorted strap-like leaf lobes, and a slight yellowing of the youngest leaves (Figure 4.13). Leaf and petiole levels of the omission treatments were lower than the complete treatment but not significantly reduced (Table 4.3).

Symptoms of Mn deficiency included yellow mottling to severe chlorosis of older leaves (Figure 4.14). Leaf and petiole nutrient levels of the omission treatment were not significantly reduced, although the mean of the minus Mn treatment were lower than the complete treatment (Table 4.3).

Symptoms of B deficiency are suspected to have appeared in two replications of the control treatments even though adequate amounts were applied in the complete nutrient solution. A peculiar malformed, thickened appearance of the leaves with a stunted bunchy growth symptom of the apical meristem were exhibited similar to visual symptoms reported by Cibes and Gaxtambide (1978). Boron deficiency symptoms have not been characterized for papaya leaves in Florida and has not been recognized as a deficiency problem for papaya production in Florida.

Papaya Diameter and Height Growth. Lack of N had a pronounced effect on the growth of trees, in all cases the trees grown with the minus N treatment were severely stunted when compared to healthy trees given the complete nutrient solution. The greatest reduction

Table 4.4 Effect of nutrient omission on diameter and height growth of 'Cariflora' papaya trees grown in sand culture.

Treatment Diameter

(mm) Height

(cm)

Complete 35.65 (+ 3.36)y 121.17 (+ 17.51)y

- N 14.18z (+ 1.37) 49.58z (+ 6.26)

- K 22.78z (+ 4.27) 83.83z (+ 12.26)

- Mg 33.22 (+ 3.44) 110.92 (+ 18.75)

- Fe 33.78 (+ 3.47) 131.00 (+ 19.64)

- Mn 34.92 (+ 2.89) 120.83 (+ 10.91)

- Zn 28.37z (+ 3.75) 120.08 (+ 13.83)

z Comparisons significant at the 0.05 level (Dunnett's T test).

y Standard deviation in parentheses.

in stem diameter growth was observed with the minus N treatment (Table 4.4). The second largest significant reduction in diameter was caused by the absence of K. The decrease in total diameter growth due to the lack of Zn was ranked third, but was not significant. Papaya stem diameter and tree height was significantly reduced for the minus N and K treatments compared to their respective complete treatments (Table 4.4). The minus Mg, Fe, Mn, and the complete treatment did not result in any significant decrease in either diameter growth or height."

[jandtaa]

Hi guys just came across these on an old thumb drive

jandtaas docs - organic crops

They are very similar to the species guides in the UN organic fruit and veg from the tropics guide if not identical.New species covered are rice,sesame,macadamia, coffee,cashew,sugarcane,peanuts,tea and (one for Smithson) papaya.I've also included the duplications of species already covered in the UN guide in this folder and if I can learn meself a new bit of software will try and strip the rest of the species guides from the UN PDF and upload them as individual files for quicker reference.This new thread is certainly helping me get all my files in order !!

Smithson did you manage to resolve your problem with downloading the vermiculture material ?? let us know if you could be so kind so that I can post whats required to download from the site for others or look into the problem further.

[jandtaa]

Hi Folks I've just loaded an organic cultivation guide for avocado here jandtaas docs- organic crops

Cheers J

[canopy]

A totally organic tree, The Tamarind

I live in Phetchabun where tamarind is the OTOP product since they do best in this province and they are grown just everywhere. In my observation the farming practices are anything but green. They occasionally go walking around spraying the ground with something that I think of as agent orange though surely not. One day there are green weeds and yes, weeds do regularly pop up. The next day they are brown and dead. I also see them spraying up in the leaves of the trees with chemicals. The amount of bags of fertilizer I see stacked around is enormous, though not sure how much is for the trees vs the fields. The runoff is already a real water quality problem and there is no drinkable water here. Whoever said all they did was add fertilizer once many years ago and let the trees go natural from then on I take with a grain of salt. I have no doubt tamarind can be grown organically, it certainly was until a generation or so ago. But in my observation there is absolutely no desire to do so. Chemicals are cheap and easy and used generously to remedy every problem so when you buy tamarind at the store, that is what you are going to get.

[Lickey]

Hi Canopy, welcome to the organic forum, where to start on tamarind trees?

Ok, they are spraying the trees, it could be a mixture of condensed milk and water to help or increase flower set,

If they are spraying uner the trees on odd weeds, yes, this is bad news, the spray will go into the soil and into the roots of the tree, there is nothing much grows uner the tree, so best cut it off and leave as a N replacement.

If you want to fert a tree, 1.5 kilo a month, so thats about 30 trees 1 bag a month, you say youve seen lots of bags stacked up, i have the same too, fert bags, but they are full of cow/chicken/pig/bat guano, perhaps these bags are the same??

Im pretty certain the last time the trees had fert was 7 years ago, they have never had weedkiller under them, no need, PM me your adress, and i will send you 1/2 kilo, you can have them lab tested for chems whatever, no obligation.

Cheers, Lickey.

[canopy]

Thank you for providing these optimistic possibilities. I hope you are right on all counts. I find the information on this forum extremely valuable and have been doing a lot of reading with a lot more to go. I plan to have a wide array of organic plantings after getting some land so appreciate the offer. Just about all land for sale around here has tamarinds on it and the first thing I will do is assure they have an organic future.

[krauti]

Hi folks

Organic fruit and vegetables from the tropics

just came across this pdf published by the UN which gives a good overview of organic farming in the tropics everything from the basic philosophy, soil fertility and nutrient management, integrated pest control and weed management, water conservation/irrigation as well as specific methods for growing ; citrus,coconut,mango,guava,pineapple,lychee,banana,beans,lettuce,tomato,peppers,

aubergine,cucumber,asparagus,sweetcorn etc...etc. organically. A great starting point for newbies or folks considering going organic as well as more indepth info for the more experienced grower !! For example we all know worms are good for the soil but did you know " Their excrements contain 5x more nitrogen, 7x more phosphate, 11x more potash and 2x more magnesia and calcium than normal earth." ??

Happy reading !!

Jandtaa

Hi Jandtaa,

I read your comments on thaivisa.com. As you are obviously organic farmer, I would like to offer you samples of my product: pure nano calcium made of dolomit limestone, called supergreen. Some guys of thaivisa.com already tested it and are very impressed of the outcome. If you send me your adress I will send you 4 samples so that you can spray about 1 Rai 1 time to check the impact. Supergreen is approved in the USA and in Europe as foliar fertilizer to be used in organic farming.

Have a nice day

Werner Kraeutler

Megagrow Co. Ltd.,

Nonthaburi

[somo]

I am one of the guys who have tested supergreen and was amazed.

Sceptical at first but in just 18 days some sick and small cassava was totally rejuvenated.

Got some pics if anyone wants to see. Now applying it to as much as I can but difficult to spray

taller cassava as can hardly walk through it waving a sprayer around.

Have since done a lot of research into the possibilities of foliar fertilization and am convinced this is the way

to go.

[Aggie]

Jandtaa: I tried to send you an e-mail to the address on your profile ([email protected]), but it failed. Can you kindly send me an e-mail? I would like to explore something with you. My address is [email protected]. Cheers, Aggie

[rolandli]

Do you look for organic fertilizers?

[IsaanAussie]

Do you look for organic fertilizers?

No I make my own. With a few ideas from a friend and heaps of web searches it all fell into place. Bio-Active Organic fertiliser. The really nice part, no fillers other than organic material. Slow release complete fertiliser. So far so good.

Edit: forgot to mention I am planning three blends for vegetables dependant on feeding requirements. Low, medium and heavy.

[WtFugarwe]

Any OP seed savers in Isaaan?

[easybullet3]

i just wondered if any of you guys heard about injecting WATER ( + Sugar + Red Dye) into watermelons to increase their Weight.

is this true or rubbish?

if one was to inject a watermelon,, (while its on the vine),, would the puncture mark 'heal' or not ?

PS: I posted this as a MAIN QUESTION on the farming forum...

here is the LINK to my forum question: (if you wanted to answer it 'there' instead of 'here').

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/792258-watermelons-injecting-water-into-watermelons-please-help/

[drtreelove]

Grow your own, or you may never know what all you are eating.

Or are you asking so that you can learn the technique?

[easybullet3]

Grow your own, or you may never know what all you are eating.

Have since done a lot of research into the possibilities of foliar fertilization and am convinced this is the way

to go.

As you are obviously organic farmer, I would like to offer you samples of my product: pure nano calcium made of dolomit limestone, called supergreen.

Werner Kraeutler

Megagrow Co. Ltd.,

Nonthaburi

I'm just wondering if any of you guys know anything on either of the following (because this is driving me nuts)..

1) Do Thai Farmers inject Watermelons with Water (+sugar+red food colouring) to increase their WEIGHT for sale ? is there any way I can tell apart an injected watermelon from a non injected one ?

2) is there anywhere I can buy Bananas (in Bangkok) that HAVE NOT been dipped into Ethephon (ethrel solution) or Calcium carbide to ripen them faster.

(every single Banana seller in the Street Markets, tell me that their Bananas have been dipped!!) i really dont want this. what happened to Natural bananas?

i TRULY appreciate any information as we eat a LOT of fruit every day.

Thank you

[loong]

We grow our own organic bananas.

Knowing how easily naturally ripened bananas bruise, I can only guess that it is more economical to transport green bananas to near point of sale and then gas them to artificially ripen them.

We give a lot away to friends and family, but because we tend to have a glut, then nothing for 2 months or so, a lot goes for composting.

[Muzarella]

Hi folks

Organic fruit and vegetables from the tropics

just came across this pdf published by the UN which gives a good overview of organic farming in the tropics everything from the basic philosophy, soil fertility and nutrient management, integrated pest control and weed management, water conservation/irrigation as well as specific methods for growing ; citrus,coconut,mango,guava,pineapple,lychee,banana,beans,lettuce,tomato,peppers,

aubergine,cucumber,asparagus,sweetcorn etc...etc. organically. A great starting point for newbies or folks considering going organic as well as more indepth info for the more experienced grower !! For example we all know worms are good for the soil but did you know " Their excrements contain 5x more nitrogen, 7x more phosphate, 11x more potash and 2x more magnesia and calcium than normal earth." ??

Happy reading !!

Jandtaa

Hi Jandtaa,

I read your comments on thaivisa.com. As you are obviously organic farmer, I would like to offer you samples of my product: pure nano calcium made of dolomit limestone, called supergreen. Some guys of thaivisa.com already tested it and are very impressed of the outcome. If you send me your adress I will send you 4 samples so that you can spray about 1 Rai 1 time to check the impact. Supergreen is approved in the USA and in Europe as foliar fertilizer to be used in organic farming.

Have a nice day

Werner Kraeutler

Megagrow Co. Ltd.,

Nonthaburi

Please send me info about your products...

[easybullet3]

We grow our own organic bananas.

Knowing how easily naturally ripened bananas bruise, I can only guess that it is more economical to transport green bananas to near point of sale and then gas them to artificially ripen them.

We give a lot away to friends and family, but because we tend to have a glut, then nothing for 2 months or so, a lot goes for composting.

Thanks for your good post here

and I hope you can understand that my re-post of the same question (in the other forum) got LOADS of replies...

(but here on this page I only got a couple).

collectively I am starting to get answers.

it really does help sometimes to re-post a question if the first attempt doesnt succeed 100%.

different people read this forum at different times of the day/week.

anyway,, thanks for your answer..

would you agree that a GREEN banana can take up to two weeks to ripen?

if it ripens in 3 or 4 days, then there is something fishy about it?

is that correct ?

i want to seek out a Farming Supply shop in Bkk and I will see which powders are available to farmers for this 'dipping' process.

and then I will do my own research to the safety of these powders.

[loong]

We grow our own organic bananas.

Knowing how easily naturally ripened bananas bruise, I can only guess that it is more economical to transport green bananas to near point of sale and then gas them to artificially ripen them.

We give a lot away to friends and family, but because we tend to have a glut, then nothing for 2 months or so, a lot goes for composting.

Thanks for your good post here

and I hope you can understand that my re-post of the same question (in the other forum) got LOADS of replies...

(but here on this page I only got a couple).

collectively I am starting to get answers.

it really does help sometimes to re-post a question if the first attempt doesnt succeed 100%.

different people read this forum at different times of the day/week.

anyway,, thanks for your answer..

would you agree that a GREEN banana can take up to two weeks to ripen?

if it ripens in 3 or 4 days, then there is something fishy about it?

is that correct ?

i want to seek out a Farming Supply shop in Bkk and I will see which powders are available to farmers for this 'dipping' process.

and then I will do my own research to the safety of these powders.

"would you agree that a GREEN banana can take up to two weeks to ripen?"

It depends on how green they are I suppose

We usually cut ours when they start turning from green to yellow and they ripen over the following 2 to 7 days or thereabouts.

I would guess it is the middle men/wholesalers that treat the bananas. Probably not usually the farmers