Dot 4 Brake Fluid ?

[Pdaz]

Noticed my clutch reservoir is a bit low.. So nipped down to town to get some DOT 4 Brake/clutch fluid..

Been to five places now.. Bike shops, main dealer and hardware store.. All or them only had DOT 3 brake fluid... First time I've had to top mine up between services so was suprised when not an easy find..

Anybody know anyhting about it's availability. Pattaya isn't exactly a one horse town anymore so was I just unlucky to go to the only places not stocking it ?

I'm puzzled

[soundman]

Try any PTT service station, standard brake and clutch fluid is DOT III and I believe their "super brake" brand is DOT IV.

[Pdaz]

Try any PTT service station, standard brake and clutch fluid is DOT III and I believe their "super brake" brand is DOT IV.

Cheers

[AjarnChan]

Noticed my clutch reservoir is a bit low.. So nipped down to town to get some DOT 4 Brake/clutch fluid..

Been to five places now.. Bike shops, main dealer and hardware store.. All or them only had DOT 3 brake fluid... First time I've had to top mine up between services so was suprised when not an easy find..

Anybody know anyhting about it's availability. Pattaya isn't exactly a one horse town anymore so was I just unlucky to go to the only places not stocking it ?

I'm puzzled

Nominally you could use Dot 3 - BUT ! I quote 'even though DOT 3 fluid is "rated" at greater than 401^oF, in the typical 3 to 4 year old car with 3 to 4% moisture content, it could boil under 300^oF. And if it has got more than 4% moisture, you may as well be running straight water!

So ideally stick with Dot 4, or if the car is old flush it and refill. You need to find out WHY you need brake fluid in the first place ? It should not simply 'evaporate' [unless it really is water], you must have a leak somewhere. If you are rich enough I strongly advice you to get it all checked out.

Brake Fluids Thanks to Dave Zeckhausen : Lets look at what the DOT ratings mean. The table below shows the MINIMUM wet and dry boiling points for DOT 2, 3, 4, and 5 brake fluid in degrees fahrenheit.

DOT 2 DOT 3 DOT 4 DOT 5 Dry Boiling point 374 401 446 500 Wet boiling point

284 311 356

The DOT 2 spec is for drum brakes and is obsolete. If you have any DOT 2 in your garage, throw it away! DOT 5 is for silicone brake fluid. Silicone brake fluid (DOT 5) should be avoided because it is not compatible with regular brake fluid, it is hard to pour without introducing bubbles and thus results in soft pedal feel, and moisture still gets into your system and will pool in low areas like your calipers and encourage rapid corrosion. STAY AWAY!

That leaves DOT 3 and DOT 4 fluids. These fluids are compatible with each other and may be interchanged or mixed with no ill effects.

Let's look at some popular brake fluids and their boiling points:

Fluid DRY WET Castrol LMA DOT 3/4 446 311 Ford Heavy Duty DOT 3 550 290 ATE Super Blue Racing 536 392 ATE TYP 200 536 392 Motul Racing 600 585 421 Castrol SRF 590 518 Performance Friction 550 284

Castrol LMA is very good at rejecting moisture and may be kept in your brake system for a couple years. The LMA stands for "Low Moisture Activity". This is the minimum quality stuff that I would use in my Impala. It comes in plastic containers which do not have a long shelf life. Don't buy lots of this stuff at a time because moisture can make its way through the plastic containers.

Ford Heavy Duty DOT 3 is VERY inexpensive and is popular among racers because of its excellent dry boiling point. It absorbs moisture quickly, but the racers don't care since they change their fluid frequently. Comes in metal cans so it may be stored. I would not use this in my Impala for the street.

ATE Super Blue Racing and ATE TYP 200 are the same brake fluid in two different colors (blue and amber, respectively). BMW recommends this brake fluid for their street cars because it, like Castrol LMA, absorbs moisture very slowly. The advantage over LMA is that ATE has a much better wet boiling point. You can put this stuff in your car and forget about it for a long time. An excellent choice for a weekend track car which also sees regular street duty. Comes in metal cans. This is what I use in all my street cars.

Motul Racing 600 is a very exotic and expensive synthetic fluid with high wet and dry boiling points. I use this exclusively in my race cars. Too expensive for the street and requires frequent changing due to its hygroscopic nature. Sold in plastic bottles. It is not suitable for the street because it absorbs moisture quickly.

Castrol SRF is a hyper-exotic and hyper-expensive brake fluid that is generally used by wealthy Porsche owners at track events. I've seen prices of $78 per liter for this stuff. Sold in metal cans. I can't afford this stuff!

Performance Friction High Performance DOT 3 has a good dry boiling point but a crummy wet boiling point. It comes in metal cans which is good for shelf life and sells for $7.87 per 16 ounce container. If you are even considering this fluid, I would go with the cheaper Ford Heavy Duty DOT 3. In either case, change this fluid frequently due to the poor wet boiling point.

Thanks to Leigh Smith for the following information on the impact of moisture content in brake fluid :

The amount of moisture in brake fluid definitely affects its performance. The big problem is it is absorbs moisture quickly. Over a relatively short period of time brake fluid will absorb moisture from the air. SAE field tests have shown that the average one year old car has 2% moisture in the fluid. A random test of vehicles in the U.S. showed an average water content of 2.6% for vehicles with an average age of 8 years. And 25% of these vehicles had water content greater than 4%.

As water content in brake fluid increases over time, the boiling point decreases. Fluid with a reduced boiling point (or high water content) can create vapor by boiling in the caliper, or wheel cylinder. The result is sudden brake failure. And water in the brake fluid can contribute to corrosion of parts such as steel pistons and ABS modulators.

The end result is even though DOT 3 fluid is "rated" at greater than 401^oF, in the typical 3 to 4 year old car with 3 to 4% moisture content, it could boil under 300^oF. And if it has got more than 4% moisture, you may as well be running straight water!

Moral: Flush your brake fluid every year or so. But only if you would like it to work well scarcely an inch away from those toasty 500^oF rotors on your SHO during a couple of hard stops! Or would you rather have a squishy pedal?

Technical data courtesy of Leica Refractometers. www.leica-ead.com.

[Pdaz]

Thanks for that.. I wasn't aware that DOT3 and DOT4 could be mixed in the same system.. Anyhow it's for use on a bike not a car and is for my clutch reservoir not the brake system.. The reservoir is only down a few mm and there is no sign of any external leaks so unless it has an internal leak at the clutch end I don't think there is a problem.. thanks again for the info..

[kottan]

last time I bought dot 4 brake fluid was at the central department store, I think it's called home work or so, but anyway it was at a central, ....and on top of it, it was i think it's a german brand ATE, but if you want to know for sure, I can check again,

Gerhard

[basjke]

Hi Pdaz,if I remember correctly you are living in Pattaya.If so the motorbike shop at the corner of Soi Korpai and south pattaya road has the Shell DOT 4 in stock.Bought it many times and have one unopened bottle here which you can have if you like.Because I brought the DOT 5.2 from europe for my bike which in contrast to another post here is much better then the DOT 4 and doesn't absorb water like the non-synthetics and also doesn't damage your frame or paintwork.

[Pdaz]

Hi Pdaz,if I remember correctly you are living in Pattaya.If so the motorbike shop at the corner of Soi Korpai and south pattaya road has the Shell DOT 4 in stock.Bought it many times and have one unopened bottle here which you can have if you like.Because I brought the DOT 5.2 from europe for my bike which in contrast to another post here is much better then the DOT 4 and doesn't absorb water like the non-synthetics and also doesn't damage your frame or paintwork.

Thanks Basjke !

Yes you are right I'm in Pattaya.. But off to Philipeens tomorrow.. Thanks for your kind offer but no probs I'll send my GF down to Soi Korpai to pick some up while I'm away..

Cheers