Protecting Yourself

[johnson36]

I really hope all goes well for you.........I know of one example where it would appear the 'lease' is no protection. If the Thai partner borrows from a loan shark against the property.....cannot repay.....what good is the lease to you? You are living in a property you no longer own.....the loan shark owns it.........and as per Heng on another thread.......may offer to rent it back to you. What are you going to do.....say wait......I have a lease??........the loan shark will say fine....pay off the loan thank you!!!!

Listen to what people are saying here....you are about to make a very important decision.

If you are a leaseholder, you have never owned the property, the freeholder does. If the freehold is sold, the lease will stay intact. The leaseholder does not have to pay again.

I think we are talking about payment to build a house

Then trying to protect that investment with a lease

The house is in the hands of a moneylender courtesy of whoever

You have by way of the lease tranferred that investment into a 30 year rent.... no house at the end of it

You are correct you never owned the house........so why not rent initially why build.....the lease is no protection for your original outlay.....may benefit you...... if..... you are allowed to stay in the house......or if as someone said to me......you want to hang around in the GF village after she has sold your house out under you!!!

In my own personal case I will not be living in the wifes village, I can't think of anything worse. Theres not one farang living anywhere near my wifes familys home, hence nobody to have a conversation and beer with etc etc. Plus there nothing to do, everybody just sits around all day waiting for the next time to eat, and why do they get up at 5.00am ?

About the lease, the lease would only be for the land as us farang are allowed to build and own the house, I think this is correct.

I trust my wife not to try to borrow any money against the land and in anycase any documents relating to the land could be locked away in a safety deposit box at a bank. Surely any of us could do this. Get the land documents and then go and get a safety deposit box at a bank in our own name. is this a good idea ?

[473geo]

Post #29 point 7 made by Earnest sums it up in my opinion

The whole housebuild stuation is loaded heavily in favour of the Thai wife....if you are not in the village and can rent for a while, it is a possibility surely, there are some lovely houses available for rent in Thailand

There are 3 lovely large farang style houses in my local area all available!!!! One I know at least had a 30 year lease but now no farang in sight - fact

[loong]

About the lease, the lease would only be for the land as us farang are allowed to build and own the house, I think this is correct.

I trust my wife not to try to borrow any money against the land and in anycase any documents relating to the land could be locked away in a safety deposit box at a bank. Surely any of us could do this. Get the land documents and then go and get a safety deposit box at a bank in our own name. is this a good idea ?

I'm no expert, but I am sure that when a lease is registered, that a note will be made on the Chanote (deeds). So if the freeholder tried to borrow money using the chanote as collateral, a sensible lender would not advance the cash.

[MJo]

I went onto the Isaan Lawyers website and read the bit up on usufructs of their pdf.

Two important things they do state:

In the section myths and facts usufructs point 6 about cancelling it. If you are married to the owner of the property Thai lawyers disagree on this subject. It states you need a second agreement or lease.

Point 7. Will I be fully protected ? Legal protection will not protect you in the face of reality.

Sorry to isaan lawyers if I have stolen any copyright.

Ernest

Also take note that buying a freehold condo under foreign quota 100% on your own name does not protect you in case of divorce. All assets acquired during marriage will be split 50-50 is the rule of thumb. Lawyers sponsoring these forums also state that all contracts and agreements between husband and wife will not hold in court. So unsufucts, lease contracts, pre-nub's etc should be done before you are married.

So if you buy the land and house it goes all to your wife. Some have fought for it and upon proving that they paid for the house they have managed to get 50% of the house.

If you buy the condo in your own name and are already married prepare to hand over 50% to the wife in case of divorce.

If you have kids, i would put the land on the childs name. Even if you are kicked out the land will hopefully pay your kids education or benefit them some other way. Drawback here is that if you want to sell it some point you need court's decision that it is in the benefit of the child to sell it.

[ballbreaker]

About the lease, the lease would only be for the land as us farang are allowed to build and own the house, I think this is correct.

I trust my wife not to try to borrow any money against the land and in anycase any documents relating to the land could be locked away in a safety deposit box at a bank. Surely any of us could do this. Get the land documents and then go and get a safety deposit box at a bank in our own name. is this a good idea ?

I'm no expert, but I am sure that when a lease is registered, that a note will be made on the Chanote (deeds). So if the freeholder tried to borrow money using the chanote as collateral, a sensible lender would not advance the cash.

Yes a note is placed on back of chanote. In my case its a end of life usefruct with my name. Wife also made out a will leaving property to family member but lawyer said that person would have to honor usefruct. If that person wanted to sell land the purchaser would also have to honor.

[ernest1966]

Thank you everyone for the insights. I might have to get divorced, buy a condo, then get married again , lol. J/K.

So, for a total newbie in legal matters Thailand, all your accumulated advice is, if you're married, forget having any money or property in Thailand. You're buggered.

Just out of curiousity, are all far east asian countries similar in the draconian dealings wit foreigners re owneship rights ? (yes I know, thats opening a whole new thread and changing the subject)

Ernest.

[johnson36]

Thank you everyone for the insights. I might have to get divorced, buy a condo, then get married again , lol. J/K.

So, for a total newbie in legal matters Thailand, all your accumulated advice is, if you're married, forget having any money or property in Thailand. You're buggered.

Just out of curiousity, are all far east asian countries similar in the draconian dealings wit foreigners re owneship rights ? (yes I know, thats opening a whole new thread and changing the subject)

Ernest.

I think we can buy in Vietnam now.

[trogers]

I think we can buy in Vietnam now.

Freehold land for sale in a communist country, and can be legally owned by a foreigner?

[loong]

I think we can buy in Vietnam now.

Freehold land for sale in a communist country, and can be legally owned by a foreigner?

I think that foreigners can buy leases if they meet special requirements, have lived and worked /invested in Vietnam for a few years. Of course there is the company owned property route as well. Things are likely to change more rapidly in Vietnam than Thailand as they realise that foreign investment is good for the economy.

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/social/2007/05/693860/

[lincdales]

This is interesting stuff. I've been in Thailand just three months, married to a Thai girl who is in well paid employment. Building a house for 2.5 million. Wife paid deposit of 1 million from the dowry and has negotiated the balance with the bank to be paid over 10 years. Currently I have money in the UK sufficient to pay for the furniture when the house completed in 5 months. I don't work but have a good pension. A relative has recently died and when all legal matters are completed I am in for a substantial legacy.

Like everyone else, I trust my wife totally but the saying is "there's no fool like an old fool". Because of the loan the house is in her name. I was intending to pay off the loan as soon as the legacy comes through and save the 5% interest charges. In view of what I have just read I am wondering if this would be a wise option. Maybe I should let the loan ride and if all goes tits up the responsibility for paying off the loan will be her's? Trouble is that if there is anything left of the legacy should the worst happen, she would be in for 50% based upon the 50/50 rule?

[trogers]

This is interesting stuff. I've been in Thailand just three months, married to a Thai girl who is in well paid employment. Building a house for 2.5 million. Wife paid deposit of 1 million from the dowry and has negotiated the balance with the bank to be paid over 10 years. Currently I have money in the UK sufficient to pay for the furniture when the house completed in 5 months. I don't work but have a good pension. A relative has recently died and when all legal matters are completed I am in for a substantial legacy.

Like everyone else, I trust my wife totally but the saying is "there's no fool like an old fool". Because of the loan the house is in her name. I was intending to pay off the loan as soon as the legacy comes through and save the 5% interest charges. In view of what I have just read I am wondering if this would be a wise option. Maybe I should let the loan ride and if all goes tits up the responsibility for paying off the loan will be her's? Trouble is that if there is anything left of the legacy should the worst happen, she would be in for 50% based upon the 50/50 rule?

Do like I did. Use your excess cash to buy an affordable condo (in your name) in reasonably good location to generate rental income of at least Bt20,000 a month. Her monthly payment to the bank is probably about BT18,000, which can be paid off from the rental income.

If all goes well, you have an asset that can supplement retirement expenses.

If she asked why the condo is to be bought only in your name, tell her the condo will have a higher resale value under the foreign quota.

Edited March 31, 2009 by trogers

[scotsman]

Lawyers sponsoring these forums also state that all contracts and agreements between husband and wife will not hold in court. So unsufucts, lease contracts, pre-nub's etc should be done before you are married.

This has never been tested in a court to date and some Lawyers have not seen or heard of any case of a usufruct being overturned in a case of a husband & wife. I agree it would be more prudent to have this done before you are married but for people who are married it still gives you more protection than nothing.

Regards

Scotsman

[ernest1966]

Just a disclaimer here. In the UK, if you are married to someone and split up, you share the assets.

I am all for being fair etc example (UK), say I was married for 30 years, got divorced. But the wife had been looking after the kids etc, so fairs fair, we've stayed together 30 years. No problems.

Take trogers example. He buys a condo in his wife's name, mortages it, buys another one with the mortgage money , in his name.

As I understand it, if there is a divorce, she has outright ownership of her property (minus the morgage sum of course) and courts would award her 50% of your property.

Is this correct?

Ernest

[trogers]

Just a disclaimer here. In the UK, if you are married to someone and split up, you share the assets.

I am all for being fair etc example (UK), say I was married for 30 years, got divorced. But the wife had been looking after the kids etc, so fairs fair, we've stayed together 30 years. No problems.

Take trogers example. He buys a condo in his wife's name, mortages it, buys another one with the mortgage money , in his name.

As I understand it, if there is a divorce, she has outright ownership of her property (minus the morgage sum of course) and courts would award her 50% of your property.

Is this correct?

Ernest

We share 50/50 on both properties, including outstanding debts. All assets or debts acquired during marriage is equally divided.

[neverdie]

I always said that next time I feel the need to get married I'm going to just go out and buy some woman I don't like a house. Its alot less painful that way.

You want to own property here in Thailand for what?

[MJo]

This has never been tested in a court to date and some Lawyers have not seen or heard of any case of a usufruct being overturned in a case of a husband & wife. I agree it would be more prudent to have this done before you are married but for people who are married it still gives you more protection than nothing.

Regards

Scotsman

Agree on the unsufruct, propably the best way to go.

Maybe my wording was not correct ealier but i was told by couple of lawyers that Thai law basickly states that all agreements between husband and wife can be overturned if one of the parties takes it to the court. In effect they gave me the advice that while it propably gives you protection, it is not guaranteed that they will hold in court due to the above mentioned thai law.

[MJo]

Just a disclaimer here. In the UK, if you are married to someone and split up, you share the assets.

I am all for being fair etc example (UK), say I was married for 30 years, got divorced. But the wife had been looking after the kids etc, so fairs fair, we've stayed together 30 years. No problems.

Take trogers example. He buys a condo in his wife's name, mortages it, buys another one with the mortgage money , in his name.

As I understand it, if there is a divorce, she has outright ownership of her property (minus the morgage sum of course) and courts would award her 50% of your property.

Is this correct?

Ernest

Very true, where i come from (europe) the wife keeps the house in most cases. Especially if you have kids. The best you can get is some part of the value of the house and you still pay child support. So usually you end up "losing" more than half.

People often complain way too much about having to give any money to the ex. I consider it to be my responsibility to take care of my kids regardless of how bad the relationship goes with the ex-wife.

But then again i'm in my mid 30's starting up a family with my wife whom i dated 5+ years before marrying. If i would be retired pensioner i would not put my life savings in danger for a 25 year old GF by buying a house for her. Sure she would need some financial security for her and her family but only as much as i could afford to invest in the relationship without risk losing all i have when she decides to walk out.