Ready To Tear The Country Apart

[Artisi]

I protested yesterday in front of Baan Si Sao (where Prem lives). Here is a photo I took:

If we get back democracy, we all will live with the Prime Minister we vote for, and those anti-democratic people will not make coup again.

They can badmouth us and Khun Thaksin forever, because we don't have the same view. I feel very sorry for the losers. They cannot win elections and try to make people think they are clean and Khun Thaksin is dirty.

Do you think that if you can somehow ever get Thaksin elected (a convicted criminal on the run) that you will see democracy - dream on, it will be back to the days of stuffing as much of the Thai wealth, including yours, into his grubby little pockets - having his enemies disappear without a trace, killing so called drug dealers in the hope of gaining more notority, having his family and corrupt friends in positions of power to safeguard his a_rse while pocketing any money left over from his grab for as much as he can get.

[samgrowth]

Thaksin cannot pretend that he's such a democratic hero. He also had close ties to certain military juntas in the past, mainly for his business deals. He became rich by winning some government contracts. Do you really believe that he came off those deals clean and fair? Thaksin had to bow over and over to those powerful juntas and politicians and bribed his way until he hit it big with his cellphone deal. Thaksin kept close tie with Gen Soonton, one of the masterminds who ordered coup against PM Chartchai then.

He learned that money talks in Thailand. You would have thought that after becoming a PM he would 'change' the tradition of doing business in Thailand. No, he just wanted to be the most powerful man so he won't have to bow to anyone ever again. And with his money, he can make people serve him.

Some protesters join the Red, but DO NOT support Thaksin. Some just don't like the way the army stage a coup to kick elected governmant out, rewrite election rules, and place their people in high places, distribute tax money to themselves (double defense budget allocation), etc. Giles is a good example.

After Chartchai's government was thrown out by Gen Suchinda and Gen Soonton, Thaksin was no where in sight to fight for democracy. It's PAD leader, Khun Chamlong and Democrat Party who made it clear they would boycott the Gen Suchinda's government. I was there. I hate the juntas so much all my life. I remember those who support or don't support the dictators.

But why is Chamlong seems to support Gen Surayud's government. He is a juntas SELECTED government. Has Chamlong change his mind from against coup to pro coup?

Without HM intervention, there will be more blood on the streets. The military would seize control of Thailand indefinitely. So when I hear some misinformed foreigners blaming the monarch, like they are obstructing true democracy. I feel pain and angry. Because of his present on that day, we stopped fighting completely. The military government stepped down. We finally had an election again. Democrat party led by Khun Chuan Leekpai, who's unlike Thaksin, is a poor man all his life finally won enough votes to form the government.

If I give my view of HM here, or anywhere, I may be charge for LM.

Vote buying was still rampant in the rural areas then but before Thaksin era, there was no party who could win more than 50% of the MP seats, Thai government would be set up by the coalition of different parties. Who won the most MP votes would win the PM seat. It's always like that until Thaksin came into the picture and with his money, started buying out those small parties. He put small, medium size parties together even before the election was held and started Thai Rak Thai. Thaksin is the only one who can do something like that because no other politician can match his enormous financial resources.

Vote buying is common in Thailand. Democrate does it as well. It is not fair to say TRT is black while Dem (or other party) white. In the past, MPs used their finite money to buy vote. However, Thaksin is the first to you PUBLIC TAX money to buy vote (a million to every village fund, free bus. train, electrcity, water, etc). This vote buying with PUBLIC TAX money have been proved successful. Mark has learn from Thaksin by giving out 2,000 Baht to buy 9 million votes.

Now Thaksin has lost his power and a lot of money and friends. Can he keep different groups in his party intact? The longer Democrat party rules this country, the more chance he would lose more support because there will be more MPs who would want to switch sides. Some people just don't like being with the sinking ship.

Thaksin has 76 billion Baht (or 2 billion USD) in the hand of the army appointed judges. I guess this is about 90% of his wealth. That's his biggest concern. Would you walk away from 76 billion? I would fight to my death if someone try to steal 76 billion from me.

[Pierrot]

Some protesters join the Red, but DO NOT support Thaksin. Some just don't like the way the army stage a coup to kick elected governmant out, rewrite election rules, and place their people in high places, distribute tax money to themselves (double defense budget allocation), etc. Giles is a good example.

You're absolutely right. There is a will to change a century old system, very deep will, Thaksin is just the way. I'm sure that for every red that supports Thaksin there is a least one or two who is here because they oppose the PAD, the democrats and what they represent.

There is something much bigger going on but as the saying goes, don't be fooled by the tree hiding the forest.

[ray23]

Just having a goverment in place long enough to have the next election would be nice. At this point with all the changes I have no idea when that election would be scheduled. That is the way out, problem is it won't be accepted a small group of people less then 1% of the population will still decide. We can second guess this stuff to death but in the end it's the Thai's nation and up to them what is good or bad.

It's sad to see the mess, but in the end really hasn't effected us much I'm grateful for that.

[mc2]

I protested yesterday in front of Baan Si Sao (where Prem lives). Here is a photo I took:

If we get back democracy, we all will live with the Prime Minister we vote for, and those anti-democratic people will not make coup again.

They can badmouth us and Khun Thaksin forever, because we don't have the same view. I feel very sorry for the losers. They cannot win elections and try to make people think they are clean and Khun Thaksin is dirty.

great photo.

stay safe during the protest...

[sriracha john]

I protested yesterday in front of Baan Si Sao (where Prem lives). Here is a photo I took:

I feel very sorry for the losers

your insight is improving...

[Artisi]

I protested yesterday in front of Baan Si Sao (where Prem lives). Here is a photo I took:

I feel very sorry for the losers

your insight is improving...

And the losers' are - Thaksin and his team of money grabbing corrupt mates, family and close allies all supported by the mis-lead sheep milling round as shown in this photo - these are the ones I feel sorry for who in the most part are probably very nice genuine people being used for the benefit of a convicted criminal and this ego.

Edited April 10, 2009 by Artisi

[clausewitz]

Why is there always someone who appears to WANT a debacle,

just to justify their philosophical beliefs?

There is no mention at all of a debacle or a fight or anything else, just a strong show of support for a new era of democracy. Sure it won;t be perfect but it will be a positive step forward form the current situation of totally lack of transparency and power in the wrong places. We will see...

I am not very good at quoting from outside sources but this article has a rare integrity and sums it up pretty much and makes the point that this is not just about a group of ignorant thugs as the controlled press likes to portray them but actually lots of different people from different walks of life all unhappy about living in effectively an un-free state...

Red shirts more than just a bunch of Thaksin's supporters

By Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation

Published on April 7, 2009

"Fifty-fifty", was the response of a key member of the Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship (DAAD) when asked about the chances of his red-shirt movement overthrowing Abhisit Vejjajiva in the not-too-distant future.

The figure is as much a guesstimate as it is a description of the uncertain political situation in which Thailand finds itself at this juncture in political history - fifty-fifty. Anything is possible.

Tomorrow, DAAD paramount leader in exile, convicted former premier Thaksin Shinawatra, hopes his followers will fight to restore "democracy" by showing their force in a sea of red. Those who show up tomorrow will include many more than passive Thaksin supporters and those organised by former Thai Rak Thai politicians from upcountry. It will be an unholy alliance of many groups wanting to tear down the old political order.

First are those opposing the September 2006 military coup which, incidentally, ousted Thaksin. Some of these people were never Thaksin fans. This writer knows of one female member, formerly very actively supporting the anti-Thaksin People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD). But the coup convinced her that the military and the aristocracy who pull the strings were the greater of the two evils and had to go. Those with long-enough memory will also recall that DAAD co-leader Weng Tojirakarn was more than once on the PAD stage ranting against Thaksin too.

Many young reds who opposed the coup felt military intervention should have been consigned to history, as they had only a faint memory of the 1991 coup that ousted then premier Chatichai Choonhavan. They have a contempt for military adventure in politics.

Group two are those who feel Thailand needs to move away from a semi-feudal system where politics is orchestrated behind the scenes. They also want to see the monarchy institution truly outside politics.

A group of netizens, calling itself FARED (First Aid Red) have volunteered at the Government House rally site to offer first aid despite the fact none was trained in medicine. However, they have hired a nurse or two to teach them.

Some educated red shirts want to see a much more limited monarchy institution, like those in Great Britain or Japan, and have vented their frustrations on the Internet. A string of arrests and jailings, such as that of Suwicha Thakor, who got a 10-year term last week for lese majeste and for breaking the computer crime Act, have made it clear there are people unhappy about the current arrangement. The crackdown and the counter-reaction continues as police are eyeing to arrest more. With the Internet coming under close surveillance, one resorted to spreading attacks on the monarchy by distributing leaflets and was reportedly arrested on Saturday in Khon Kaen. These people pose a challenge to the commonly accepted belief that all Thais revere the monarchy institution and they want change.

The PAD's New Politics, which proposed limited electoral rights, and their seizure of the airports, also provided a turning point for others who have joined the red-shirt movement.

Group three are fuelled by general insults handed down by a large section of the press describing the protesters as a hired lowly educated mob who don't know what voting and democracy is all about - only serving to make more working class red and angry. These people can be found riding the bus back home from rally sites late in the evening, hating the anti-Thaksin media as well as PAD's New Politics which they regard as insulting and elitist.

So this is a war between new money, represented by Thaksin and his associates, some die-hard leftists, a young middle class fed up with old politics, educated as well as lesser educated middle and working class versus the PAD - which claims to represent the monarchy and moral politics and is run by the few and supported by the military, the bureaucracy, old money and old elites.

Now that Privy Council president Prem Tinsulanond has been openly dragged into the feud through Thaksin's allegation that he's behind the coup, the battleground is even clearer.

The PAD's momentum surged when it attracted people from many walks whom Thaksin had made his enemy during his abusive and egocentric rule as prime minister. Now the red DAAD have attracted many diverse groups who feel upset about the old powers and are willing to use Thaksin, and let Thaksin use them, to achieve victory.

This unholy alliance is getting stronger by the day as more and more people feel emboldened by the sheer numbers challenging the old establishment. And it's definitely more than just about Thaksin or PAD, Sondhi Limthongkul or even Prem.

Yes, that is a pretty accurate summary.

[rogerdee123]

The basic issue here is "democracy" and what does it mean. Both Yellow and Red shirts (and their supporters) incorrectly use words like "democracy" to justify their actions.

"democracy" is better defined in terms like "participation", "transparency", "mutual respect", "fair play" ....

An election does not make a democracy. And another election will not solve this problem.

An elected PM or parliament does not mean that there is a functioning democracy .... hmmmm .... this could apply to other places such as Cambodia, Myanmar, etc etc .... it could also apply in the USA and countries in Europe where big money and influence are what really runs the systems.

The point of this posting is to say ...

Both sides of this political mess in Thailand like to use the words associated with "democracy" to justify their respective positions, and either side can easily defend their positions but only by SELECTIVELY applying some democratic attributes while ignoring others. Neither side seems willing to abide by "democratic principles".

What's happening now is a power struggle between two different political power groups. Although I wish it were, this is not a struggle for "democracy" despite what those true believers out there on the street wearing the red and yellow shirts may believe.

All a reasonable thinking person can do in this situation is determine which of the two sides is the lesser of two evils. This is what I have done and it's not so difficult, especially if one's judgement isn't clouded by all the smokescreens ... or personal ego.

[jumnien]

Go, Big Red, Go! Let's get this party started!

[rixalex]

Although I wish it were, this is not a struggle for "democracy" despite what those true believers out there on the street wearing the red and yellow shirts may believe.

Very true. I can't help wondering if there's anyone who truly, deep-down believes that this is a struggle for democracy. Is it possible to be that deluded?

[LannaTai]

Some protesters join the Red, but DO NOT support Thaksin. Some just don't like the way the army stage a coup to kick elected governmant out, rewrite election rules, and place their people in high places, distribute tax money to themselves (double defense budget allocation), etc. Giles is a good example.

Like I wrote in earlier post, you don't support democracy by bringing back the tyrant.

The real motive of redshirt movement is for clearing Thaksin from his crime first and for his gang to be back in power. He's been using people like you.

And do not refer to that traitor as a good example, Ji, who doesn't even consider himself a Thai. He and his association work hand in hand with the communist party of Thailand. You don't choose a communist to lead a democratic country, do you. You are choosing the wrong choice.

Back when I was very young, the communists were trying to take over Thailand. They always want to eliminate the monarchy system. But they lost because most Thai people love our king. Without the people support, they dispersed into the countryside. Thai people then were scared by them than the military juntas. Well, at least the juntas protect our king. Even we hate the dictators so much but we had to let them rule the country. Now the communists are coming back and trying again and we will make sure they will lose again.

Without HM, Thailand would fall under communist regime like our neighbors Vietnam, Cambodia, Lao. And you know if you want to cry for democracy, take look at those countries before blaming Thailand.

Giles or Ji is a Marxist. Do your research.

But why is Chamlong seems to support Gen Surayud's government. He is a juntas SELECTED government. Has Chamlong change his mind from against coup to pro coup?

Because the country was in crisis big time when Thaksin government and PAD confrontation escalated to the point that there could be riot at any time. I normally hate coups. I disagreed the first time I heard Thaksin was thrown out by the coup. However, I now believe it was more of the national security issue than most coups in the past.

You can try to imagine that you are the military chief and you just had the intelligence report in front of you that your PM would bring in armed mob from the countryside to crack down PAD leaders and to incite a riot. You know your PM doesn't trust you. How would you react? Thaksin planned to remove Gen Sondhi and planned to stage his own coup by rolling over tanks on the street and many people could die if his plan succeeded? Well, noone knows if that report was true because Thaksin's government was thrown out before such thing could happen. Sondhi Lim also mentioned in the rally a few days before the coup that his life was on the line there and he would have to sacrifice for his country.

If Thaksin's coup was successful, he would rule Thailand just like those military juntas. He would be able to shut down PAD and shut up his critics.

As for Surayud, he is gone. The military didn't block Thaksin's party from returning to power, did they? They didn't stop Samak and Somchai from becoming PMs, did they? The coup with HM's approval apparently was for preventing the violence that could happen and to save hundreds of people from getting killed by Thaksin's thugs.

If I give my view of HM here, or anywhere, I may be charge for LM.

If you are not Thai you won't understand why Thai people love 'this king' so much. He's never lived his life in luxury like Thaksin's family. Since when he was just a boy he traveled all over the country to meet his people. They saw him in real person with his simple cloths. He went to mingle with the poorest in all part of country. He may not be a genius economist, or a genius scientist but he started several projects for the poor people. He truly loves his his country men and women and they truly revere him. Our king has become a cornerstone of our national security, the one person in the world who can really unite Thailand. I would dare you to ask your redshirt supporters, let them choose between Thaksin and HM, then you would see the reality.

I want to challenge you redshirt people to reveal your true face. Tell your audience of your real motive. That you want to change this country to become a republic and to replace a crook like Thaksin as a president. Mark my words, you will lose at least 80% of your current support.

Vote buying is common in Thailand. Democrate does it as well. It is not fair to say TRT is black while Dem (or other party) white. In the past, MPs used their finite money to buy vote. However, Thaksin is the first to you PUBLIC TAX money to buy vote (a million to every village fund, free bus. train, electrcity, water, etc). This vote buying with PUBLIC TAX money have been proved successful. Mark has learn from Thaksin by giving out 2,000 Baht to buy 9 million votes.

Majority of Democrat voters are always in the south. If you live in Thailand long enough you should know that southerners can't be bought, same with Bangkokians. Democrat party has been either the biggest or the 2nd biggest party for a long time because of the support from the south. That doesn't mean they are 100% clean of course but the fact is vote buying is more concentrated in northeastern part of the country where our poorest live.

And yes you are correct, Thaksin didn't use his own money to buy votes. Instead he was using other people money to buy votes for him, while saving billions of $$$ from all of his tax evasion schemes. Does that make him a democratic hero?

Thaksin has 76 billion Baht (or 2 billion USD) in the hand of the army appointed judges. I guess this is about 90% of his wealth. That's his biggest concern. Would you walk away from 76 billion? I would fight to my death if someone try to steal 76 billion from me.

?

It was well documented the day his government passed the law on that Friday night to allow selling more than 80% of any Thai business to foreigner tax free. It was only 50% before if I'm not mistaken. Thaksin raised the ceiling to make sure he wouldn't have to pay tax from selling Shincorp. Do you think it's usual? He passed that law on Friday night and completed the deal with Temasek on Monday.

Besides, that telecom project Shincorp owns was the government contract that made him a rich man. He was the only one person who ran that kind of project in Thailand without any competition for a while. He's made hundreds of million dollars from it. When he wanted to sell it, he didn't want to pay any taxes. That deal triggered thousands of middle class people to take to the street. He's not only avoided taxes, they feel like he sold a government property to foreigner.

[jayboy]

Although I wish it were, this is not a struggle for "democracy" despite what those true believers out there on the street wearing the red and yellow shirts may believe.

Very true. I can't help wondering if there's anyone who truly, deep-down believes that this is a struggle for democracy. Is it possible to be that deluded?

I think it's rather important not to make broad brush statements about people being "deluded".

I would have thought that regardless of political affiliation there could be a fairly general agreement that the current struggle is about democracy.There will be quite different interpretations however.Although I'm not a PAD supporter I believe the great mass of yellowshirts were genuinely passionate about the exploitation and perversion of the democratic system under Thaksin.Equally there are many on the other side who are also passionate by the perceived manipulation of the system to thwart majority wishes.These positions are not mutually exclusive.

The danger in a discussion among expatriates especially those with no real grasp of Thai history (as in the case of the quoted poster) is that the debate can get very simple minded. E.G

1.There's a conspiracy by the elite to thwart the majority

2.Prem is a scheming manipulator responsible for all Thaksin's woes.

3.The courts in Thailand cannot provide justice

4.Abhisit is a puppet with no democratic mandate

5.PAD was funded by a mysterious elite

6.Thaksin's faults were relatively minor

or if one comes from the other direction

1.Thaksin never had an electoral mandate

2.The N.E and North were simply brought off in elections and cannot think for themselves

3.PAD was a peace loving group that never resorted to violence

4.The Reds are mainly comprised of ignorant peasants

5.The courts were completely uninfluenced by political considerations

6.Abhisit could hold an election and win (OK I'm not so sure about that one)

But my premise is that all these statements are completely untrue and actually without multiple qualifications are rather infantile.It would be somewhat less tiresome if views reflected the reality that there's shade and nuance with reasonable arguments on both sides.If hypothetically someone never concedes that the opposing side has some positive arguments they are unlikely to be taken seriously.Abhisit for one doesn't make this mistake.Moral: Don't fling around terms like "deluded" unless you have a modicum of understanding what you are talking about.

[LannaTai]

Besides, Abhisit government is legally elected. Thai people don't vote for PM, they vote for MPs. That's the rule says for years. Noone has 'rewritten' the rule.

MPs vote for PM, that's the rule also. Abhisit won the most MP votes. The rule states clearly that whoever wins the most MP votes will be the PM. Again, the rule was there for a long time, noone has ever questioned its legitimacy until now, hmm.

Funny how the redshirts keep telling lie that Abhisit government is illegal because his party isn't the biggest party. But they would wholeheartedly support Khun Pracha whose own party is much smaller than Abhisit's. Redshirts would say anything is illegal when they don't like the result. not surprising here.

[h90]

Besides, Abhisit government is legally elected. Thai people don't vote for PM, they vote for MPs. That's the rule says for years. Noone has 'rewritten' the rule.

MPs vote for PM, that's the rule also. Abhisit won the most MP votes. The rule states clearly that whoever wins the most MP votes will be the PM. Again, the rule was there for a long time, noone has ever questioned its legitimacy until now, hmm.

Funny how the redshirts keep telling lie that Abhisit government is illegal because his party isn't the biggest party. But they would wholeheartedly support Khun Pracha whose own party is much smaller than Abhisit's. Redshirts would say anything is illegal when they don't like the result. not surprising here.

Austria had a government in which the third largest party had the PM: nobody had a problem with that

[Samuian]

Besides, Abhisit government is legally elected. Thai people don't vote for PM, they vote for MPs. That's the rule says for years. Noone has 'rewritten' the rule.

MPs vote for PM, that's the rule also. Abhisit won the most MP votes. The rule states clearly that whoever wins the most MP votes will be the PM. Again, the rule was there for a long time, noone has ever questioned its legitimacy until now, hmm.

Funny how the redshirts keep telling lie that Abhisit government is illegal because his party isn't the biggest party. But they would wholeheartedly support Khun Pracha whose own party is much smaller than Abhisit's. Redshirts would say anything is illegal when they don't like the result. not surprising here.

I agree very much, but then they need to say something, ebven much of it is BS as their frequent verbal use of the word "real democracy" - this proves, that in defending a man like Thaksin and his wrongdoings, as defamation by the "elite", they have no idea of "real democracy" it's a slogan, like "Wall's ice cream is the worlds best!"!

[rixalex]

Although I wish it were, this is not a struggle for "democracy" despite what those true believers out there on the street wearing the red and yellow shirts may believe.

Very true. I can't help wondering if there's anyone who truly, deep-down believes that this is a struggle for democracy. Is it possible to be that deluded?

I think it's rather important not to make broad brush statements about people being "deluded".

I would have thought that regardless of political affiliation there could be a fairly general agreement that the current struggle is about democracy.There will be quite different interpretations however.Although I'm not a PAD supporter I believe the great mass of yellowshirts were genuinely passionate about the exploitation and perversion of the democratic system under Thaksin.Equally there are many on the other side who are also passionate by the perceived manipulation of the system to thwart majority wishes.These positions are not mutually exclusive.

The danger in a discussion among expatriates especially those with no real grasp of Thai history (as in the case of the quoted poster) is that the debate can get very simple minded. E.G

1.There's a conspiracy by the elite to thwart the majority

2.Prem is a scheming manipulator responsible for all Thaksin's woes.

3.The courts in Thailand cannot provide justice

4.Abhisit is a puppet with no democratic mandate

5.PAD was funded by a mysterious elite

6.Thaksin's faults were relatively minor

or if one comes from the other direction

1.Thaksin never had an electoral mandate

2.The N.E and North were simply brought off in elections and cannot think for themselves

3.PAD was a peace loving group that never resorted to violence

4.The Reds are mainly comprised of ignorant peasants

5.The courts were completely uninfluenced by political considerations

6.Abhisit could hold an election and win (OK I'm not so sure about that one)

But my premise is that all these statements are completely untrue and actually without multiple qualifications are rather infantile.It would be somewhat less tiresome if views reflected the reality that there's shade and nuance with reasonable arguments on both sides.If hypothetically someone never concedes that the opposing side has some positive arguments they are unlikely to be taken seriously.Abhisit for one doesn't make this mistake.Moral: Don't fling around terms like "deluded" unless you have a modicum of understanding what you are talking about.

I stand by my belief that there are deluded people caught up in this, and this forum serves up plenty of examples thereof. Take any of the red supporters that deny their struggle has anything to do with the interests of one man - would you not agree that they are deluding themselves?

That was the only point i was making, and i don't see how, whether or not you agree with it, makes you qualified to judge my level of understanding. A little less pomposity would be appreciated.

The rest of your post makes a lot of sense.

[jayboy]

I stand by my belief that there are deluded people caught up in this, and this forum serves up plenty of examples thereof. Take any of the red supporters that deny their struggle has anything to do with the interests of one man - would you not agree that they are deluding themselves?

That was the only point i was making, and i don't see how, whether or not you agree with it, makes you qualified to judge my level of understanding. A little less pomposity would be appreciated.

The rest of your post makes a lot of sense.

I agree to everything you say here but if you don't mind me saying so it wasn't quite the way in which you originally framed your views.

I'll try to keep my pomposity under check.Looking back at the tone of my post you have a point there.Apologies

[rixalex]

I agree to everything you say here but if you don't mind me saying so it wasn't quite the way in which you originally framed your views.

Apologies if i didn't articulate myself clearly.

I'll try to keep my pomposity under check.Looking back at the tone of my post you have a point there. Apologies

Very gracious of you sir. And happily accepted.

[wayfarer108]

I protested yesterday in front of Baan Si Sao (where Prem lives). Here is a photo I took:

If we get back democracy, we all will live with the Prime Minister we vote for, and those anti-democratic people will not make coup again.

They can badmouth us and Khun Thaksin forever, because we don't have the same view. I feel very sorry for the losers. They cannot win elections and try to make people think they are clean and Khun Thaksin is dirty.

You're obviously not Thai or at least not a literate Thai or you would know the way things work here.

An election never stops coups. Coups are seen as a remedy for bad government, elected or otherwise, right or wrong.

'Villagers elect, Bangkok rejects.' Been that way since 1932 ....

Edited April 10, 2009 by wayfarer108

[Koo82]

Abhisit is hosting ASEAN Summit Plus 3 in Pattaya at Royal Beach Cliff Resort.

The reds protested there yesterday with no weapons as usual but were turned away by groups wearing black and dark blue using rubber strings to shoot glass balls.

The reds went back to gather near BigC.

Nuttawut said 10 minutes ago that there are groups wearing black and dark blue having guns, knifes, bombs and other weapons trying to stop the reds. The reds are calling more reds to come and help.

The red leaders who are at Pattaya now said there are no reporters from regular TV channels.

Abhisit government last night at 23:00 had order from court to catch red leaders for causing traffic problems.

Now no police is out to stop black and dark blue people.

[Koo82]

Protest on 10th April in front of Royal Cliff Beach Resort where Abhisit has ASEAN Summit Plus 3:

[ovenman]

Nuttawut said 10 minutes ago that there are groups wearing black and dark blue having guns, knifes, bombs and other weapons trying to stop the reds. The reds are calling more reds to come and help.

I guess The Nation story is completely wrong then? http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Red-shirts-B...tt-t256266.html

[hammered]

It seems that the red shirts are a tad out of control now attacking locals. Action will be needed soon.

Edited to add: This will look bad for the red side in PR terms.

Edited April 11, 2009 by hammered

[junkofdavid2]

In the last few decades, why is Thailand ruled by Chinese (pure or almost 100% chinese blood)?

Good question...

Another good question is why is it that a lot of dirty old men who date/marry girls from streets like ______ seem to have some chips on their shoulders against the Thai Chinese?

Edited April 11, 2009 by junkofdavid2

[Koo82]

They said on the red main stage at Government House now that 2 reds in Pattaya were shot by gun and are sent to hospital.

Some reds have entered Royal Cliff Beach Resort.

They ask the reds to block all local Municipal Houses in provinces and call the reds in Bangkok to gather at Government House.

As Abhisit government allows attack to unarmed reds, the reds announce Abhisit government is their enemy.

[jbowman1993]

Summit postponed following clash between rival groups

The summit of Asean leaders with dialogue partners has been postponed from 9 am Saturday following a clash of red-shirted and blue-shirted people outside the meeting venue.

The postponement was announced live on TV by the acting government spokesman.

The Nation

Source - http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...tween-rival-gro

[webfact]

They said on the red main stage at Government House now that 2 reds in Pattaya were shot by gun and are sent to hospital.

Some reds have entered Royal Cliff Beach Resort.

They ask the reds to block all local Municipal Houses in provinces and call the reds in Bangkok to gather at Government House.

As Abhisit government allows attack to unarmed reds, the reds announce Abhisit government is their enemy.

Just watched on TV 7 a different story... throwing stones and obviously Molotov cocktails means "unarmed"????

[jbowman1993]

They said on the red main stage at Government House now that 2 reds in Pattaya were shot by gun and are sent to hospital.

Some reds have entered Royal Cliff Beach Resort.

They ask the reds to block all local Municipal Houses in provinces and call the reds in Bangkok to gather at Government House.

As Abhisit government allows attack to unarmed reds, the reds announce Abhisit government is their enemy.

Koo, why aren't you down there, bleeding for the cause you are so passionate about?

[jbowman1993]

They said on the red main stage at Government House now that 2 reds in Pattaya were shot by gun and are sent to hospital.

Some reds have entered Royal Cliff Beach Resort.

They ask the reds to block all local Municipal Houses in provinces and call the reds in Bangkok to gather at Government House.

As Abhisit government allows attack to unarmed reds, the reds announce Abhisit government is their enemy.

Just watched on TV 7 a different story... throwing stones and obviously Molotov cocktails means "unarmed"????

I think most are aware that the reds are desperate, and desperate people do stupid things, which is what we are seeing today. Unbelievable that the police can't handle this.