How To Deal With Extreme Attitudes

[myauq]

i don't know why my last thread was closed, as i don't want to 'bash' thai people or culture. i just want other people's perspectives on what is quite a real issue for me.

my gf and i are not thai. because of her ethnicity, she has been called a 'prostitue', a 'crazy woman' and the like on a weekly basis. people frequently say that they hate her because she is not thai. neither of us publicize her difference (she is learning thai), but because they think she is thai they speak to her in thai and when she says she is burmese the reply is quite often scornful.

in my guesthouse the thai workers tried to grab her breasts when she came home from work late. she mentioned it to the man's wife, and she said that she should learn to speak thai better. together we went to the owner, who was quite apologetic - seeing that we are both fee paying guests, and obviously unhappy with the service. since then, the workers pick on her, saying things like she cannot come home late, unlike every other guest (including myself).

also these two chat amongst themselves saying how much better thailand is than burma, and this is without any 'provocation' or 'pretext' - and for the most part we agree - but they use this to be ultranationalistic, and find ways to put her down. we are both polite, but i would like to know other people's perspectives on these *cough* non-racist attitudes.

[sbk]

I made it quite clear why your post was closed. Blanket statements as you made are inflammatory and trollish.

If you are suggesting people are "racist" against your girlfriend because she is from Burma, then it seems a bit odd since essentially, they are quite similar.

Perhaps your term "ultranationalistic" is more appropriate in this case .

keeping it to specifics rather than blanket generalizations over who is the worst will find your thread remaining open.

[myauq]

I made it quite clear why your post was closed. Blanket statements as you made are inflammatory and trollish.

If you are suggesting people are "racist" against your girlfriend because she is from Burma, then it seems a bit odd since essentially, they are quite similar.

Perhaps your term "ultranationalistic" is more appropriate in this case .

keeping it to specifics rather than blanket generalizations over who is the worst will find your thread remaining open.

i've known many philipinos, and there are a few in my condo, and they're not targeted in the same way.

we know hundreds of other burmese people and their experiences are very similar. i even came across a un report, detailing the 'social' problems karen refugees faced when living in bangkok. there is a fair amount of fear out there, which many farangs have no idea or experience of.

[Marksamui]

Why don't you just move guesthouses?

Or better still tell then Thai workers to fuc_k off and then move?

[myauq]

If you are suggesting people are "racist" against your girlfriend because she is from Burma, then it seems a bit odd since essentially, they are quite similar.

you could say the same about palestinians and jews, or jews and gentiles, for that matter. 'quite similar' is a completely arbitary judgement, riding rough-shod over a multitude of different attitudes, histories, languages and perspectives.

[Sabum]

I made it quite clear why your post was closed. Blanket statements as you made are inflammatory and trollish.

If you are suggesting people are "racist" against your girlfriend because she is from Burma, then it seems a bit odd since essentially, they are quite similar.

Perhaps your term "ultranationalistic" is more appropriate in this case .

keeping it to specifics rather than blanket generalizations over who is the worst will find your thread remaining open.

Outrageous SBK! You know dayum well Thais are extremely racist against the Burmese. Similar?! You know how mad you would make ANY Thai for saying they were essentially similar to Burmese? LOL!! I'm still flabbergasted, go ahead and ask your husband if Thais are racist against Burmese. He sounds like a smart guy so will probably give you a straight answer.

[kiakaha]

My wife has thai ethnicity(her thai parents immigrated to New Zealand in the 1970's), but she is born/raised/educated in NZL, just,like me, is 100% Kiwi and can speak thai about as well as Tiger Woods .

I can empathise with you on some bizzare situations that can occur here in Thailand.

Just laugh it off, cos after all, thats all it is, laughable.

[sbk]

I made it quite clear why your post was closed. Blanket statements as you made are inflammatory and trollish.

If you are suggesting people are "racist" against your girlfriend because she is from Burma, then it seems a bit odd since essentially, they are quite similar.

Perhaps your term "ultranationalistic" is more appropriate in this case .

keeping it to specifics rather than blanket generalizations over who is the worst will find your thread remaining open.

Outrageous SBK! You know dayum well Thais are extremely racist against the Burmese. Similar?! You know how mad you would make ANY Thai for saying they were essentially similar to Burmese? LOL!! I'm still flabbergasted, go ahead and ask your husband if Thais are racist against Burmese. He sounds like a smart guy so will probably give you a straight answer.

He is the one that told me they are essentially the same. personally, he thinks it has nothing to do with race and everything to do with nationalism.

[sbk]

I made it quite clear why your post was closed. Blanket statements as you made are inflammatory and trollish.

If you are suggesting people are "racist" against your girlfriend because she is from Burma, then it seems a bit odd since essentially, they are quite similar.

Perhaps your term "ultranationalistic" is more appropriate in this case .

keeping it to specifics rather than blanket generalizations over who is the worst will find your thread remaining open.

i've known many philipinos, and there are a few in my condo, and they're not targeted in the same way.

we know hundreds of other burmese people and their experiences are very similar. i even came across a un report, detailing the 'social' problems karen refugees faced when living in bangkok. there is a fair amount of fear out there, which many farangs have no idea or experience of.

And it is a far different post from your original so clearly, you are capable of understanding the difference and why the original was closed.

[Sabum]

Well sounds like your husband is sugar coating the truth for you. Here in Bangkok you would get a knuckle sandwich AT THE LEAST for suggesting they are similar to Burmese. They hate them. You know every single time a Thai has done something wrong to me or my girl (rob, attack etc...) other Thais (without seeing the guy) immediately say "must have been a Burmese guy" lol.

[myauq]

My wife has thai ethnicity(her thai parents immigrated to New Zealand in the 1970's), but she is born/raised/educated in NZL, just,like me, is 100% Kiwi and can speak thai about as well as Tiger Woods .

I can empathise with you on some bizzare situations that can occur here in Thailand.

Just laugh it off, cos after all, thats all it is, laughable.

we're over the 'getting upset' phase, and now i'm finding it an interesting subject in itself.

the other week for instance i was at the pub, talking to friends and other people working in thailand. spoke to a guy about working in burma, and he about working in malaysia. as soon as i mentioned burma his gf said - completely unashamadly - 'i don't like burmese people'. unbelievable.

the conversation just went on, and in that context she looked like a <deleted> (being in the company of other non-thais). in an all-thai context, that would have been the time to depart the scene.

i didn't get upset, but from time to time i do think how completely bizzare these situations are, and whether farangs are aware of this at all.

[ChangMaiSausage]

Sorry sbk I have to agree with Sabum, some Thai people can be very cruel and cutting in their remarks to non Thai Asian nationals in Thailand. It seems to be more common amongst working folk.

[sbk]

Well sounds like your husband is sugar coating the truth for you. Here in Bangkok you would get a knuckle sandwich AT THE LEAST for suggesting they are similar to Burmese. They hate them. You know every single time a Thai has done something wrong to me or my girl (rob, attack etc...) other Thais (without seeing the guy) immediately say "must have been a Burmese guy" lol.

No, actually, he is telling the truth as he sees it. I did not say that his attitude was prevalent, you asked what HE thought so I told you exactly what HE thinks. You did not ask me what other Thai people think or what he thinks other Thai people think or why I or he, think they have these attitudes.

I am well aware of the ignorant attitude many Thai people have towards the Burmese. Just as I am aware of the ignorant attitude many Americans have towards Hispanics, Germans towards Turkish, French to North Africans etc etc ie any country that has a large migrant laboring population.

[myauq]

Sorry sbk I have to agree with Sabum, some Thai people can be very cruel and cutting in their remarks to non Thai Asian nationals in Thailand. It seems to be more common amongst working folk.

do you find that it's more common from some thai women or men?

[bkkjames]

Sort of in the same vein, I stumbled across the Ms Thailand pageant on tele over the weekend and suggest to my (chinese thai) wife that they should rename it the Ms Chinese Thai Pageant as the only contestents I could see were of this ethnicity.

Didn't get a knuckle sandwich but got look that suggested I shouldn't start down this path. The good boy that I am I said, "OK Dear, I will just watch with my mouth shut and eyes wide open".

(reason for edit: I can't spell)

Edited March 30, 2009 by bkkjames

[davejonesbkk]

As usual some real BS rose tinted glasses statements here. I couldnt care less about relations between Thai people and Burmese but saying that there isn't wide spread racism against them here is laughable. At the international uni I study at there are quite a few Burmese students and they are totally shunned. There is one girl though who looks very Thai and speaks Thai very well, she did a presentation in a class once about the troubles she had encountered, due to speaking Thai she is usually ok but as soon as people find out that she's Burmese their attitude changes. She told a story how she was once in a branch of one of the biggest banks here trying to change a 100 usd bill and as soon as she presented her passport as ID the teller turned into a real b*tch.

[sbk]

Curious, if they are essentially the same and people can't tell they aren't Thai until they speak, is it really racism? Isn't it racism if the person is say, a different race? Are we suggesting that Thais and Burmese are that different? Perhaps looking at the root cause of the bigoted attitudes would be more productive than pointless fingerpointing at trying to find out who is more ignorant than another.

And really, I suggest you re-read my post before bringing up that old chestnut of rose tinted glasses.

[myauq]

I am well aware of the ignorant attitude many Thai people have towards the Burmese. Just as I am aware of the ignorant attitude many Americans have towards Hispanics, Germans towards Turkish, French to North Africans etc etc ie any country that has a large migrant laboring population.

what a ridiculous comparison.

america is a country founded on migration, the 'melting-pot' ideology. in america many hispanics, germans and turks have become americans, and accepted as such and thus treated in every way conceivably - economically, politically, legally and socially - as equal citizens.

for instance, there is a massive amount of spanish-speaking media in america, and many non-hispanics are taught spanish at school. politicians try to court the hispanic vote, going on radio and tv programs speaking spanish. an austrian born actor is the governer of california. there are countless other examples.

so to make a comparison between american and thailand, that would be like having a burmese politician, burmese speaking tv and open-minded politicians willing to learn burmese. burmese workers are not even permitted to speak their language where they work, are not given *any* rights at work, so forget about running for parliament or becoming a citizen...

[myauq]

Curious, if they are essentially the same and people can't tell they aren't Thai until they speak, is it really racism? Isn't it racism if the person is say, a different race? Are we suggesting that Thais and Burmese are that different? Perhaps looking at the root cause of the bigoted attitudes would be more productive than pointless fingerpointing at trying to find out who is more ignorant than another.

1 - they are NOT 'essentially the same', and saying they are is like ... well ... 'they all look the same to me' kind of racism discrimination.

2 - if people are 'discriminating' against them because they speak a different language, the reasons they do so are because they are 'burmese' - and not french, english, philipino, or what have you - then this is discrimination based upon race; therefore, they are using language as an indicator of an (inferior) racial identity.

3 - see my first point.

[Samuian]

Sorry sbk I have to agree with Sabum, some Thai people can be very cruel and cutting in their remarks to non Thai Asian nationals in Thailand. It seems to be more common amongst working folk.

....and it has been diagnosed: "very heavy case of serious profile neurosis"!

Shortcomings here, are often tried to disguise with this kind of behavior, displaying some sort of (laughable) superiority, some seem to be just obsessed with being "better" then anyone or anything else - and if those can't have it their way - they will do anything to deface, defame, derail, unseat using blackmail, anything that will suit their aim - just to have their little ego fed - satisfied....

many years of personal experience in the professional field, have proven this theory right, again and again!

And I only can agree, some do have a deeply rooted antipathy against foreigners, specially in higher position then them!

Those "Foreigners" are already found between Thai-Nationals the "Isaan" People - often degraded to "Lao" .... Citizen from the Cambodian Border Areas as "Kmhe'n"...

But one may find this in any society around the globe - but this is not the point here - the point is that this attitude very well exists!

Edited March 30, 2009 by Samuian

[DP25]

So people are sexually assaulting and verbally harassing your girlfriend in the guesthouse you're staying, and you're still there?

[sbk]

Curious, if they are essentially the same and people can't tell they aren't Thai until they speak, is it really racism? Isn't it racism if the person is say, a different race? Are we suggesting that Thais and Burmese are that different? Perhaps looking at the root cause of the bigoted attitudes would be more productive than pointless fingerpointing at trying to find out who is more ignorant than another.

1 - they are NOT 'essentially the same', and saying they are is like ... well ... 'they all look the same to me' kind of racism discrimination.

2 - if people are 'discriminating' against them because they speak a different language, the reasons they do so are because they are 'burmese' - and not french, english, philipino, or what have you - then this is discrimination based upon race; therefore, they are using language as an indicator of an (inferior) racial identity.

3 - see my first point.

You know what, after typing out something, I changed my mind. We can call it racism if that makes you feel better. And if it will get you to drop the hectoring lecturing tone.

perhaps instead of trying to point fingers at who is worse than who, you might try considering why these attitudes exist among some Thai people and how those attitudes could have developed.

Frankly, given your original closed post and subsequent posts in this thread, it is beginning to look like you aren't actually interested in that kind of discussion.

[myauq]

another recent example...

i was asked to fill out a consumer research questionnaire at siam bts. it was about a chain of hotels. i passed all the 'screener' criteria - i.e. had been in thailand a certain amount of time, like shopping, have a combined income above a certain amount, and stay at hotels everytime i holiday in thailand.

right, so a couple of weeks later and a guy from the cr company phones and confirms that my details were correct. he says that i have won a prize, which is a holiday in one of their resort hotels in phuket. great. i need to come to the hotel in silom tomorrow and do a product testing session, and i can claim my prize. great. i said yes.

one final question - 'is your wife thai?' 'no'. 'what nationality is she?' i said 'burmese'. the tone changes. 'ok, i will email you later and give you details about where to claim your prize over the weekend' no email. nothing.

[bkkjames]

another recent example...

i was asked to fill out a consumer research questionnaire at siam bts. it was about a chain of hotels. i passed all the 'screener' criteria - i.e. had been in thailand a certain amount of time, like shopping, have a combined income above a certain amount, and stay at hotels everytime i holiday in thailand.

right, so a couple of weeks later and a guy from the cr company phones and confirms that my details were correct. he says that i have won a prize, which is a holiday in one of their resort hotels in phuket. great. i need to come to the hotel in silom tomorrow and do a product testing session, and i can claim my prize. great. i said yes.

one final question - 'is your wife thai?' 'no'. 'what nationality is she?' i said 'burmese'. the tone changes. 'ok, i will email you later and give you details about where to claim your prize over the weekend' no email. nothing.

somehow I doubt this. quit while you are ahead mate.

[Moonrakers]

another recent example...

i was asked to fill out a consumer research questionnaire at siam bts. it was about a chain of hotels. i passed all the 'screener' criteria - i.e. had been in thailand a certain amount of time, like shopping, have a combined income above a certain amount, and stay at hotels everytime i holiday in thailand.

right, so a couple of weeks later and a guy from the cr company phones and confirms that my details were correct. he says that i have won a prize, which is a holiday in one of their resort hotels in phuket. great. i need to come to the hotel in silom tomorrow and do a product testing session, and i can claim my prize. great. i said yes.

one final question - 'is your wife thai?' 'no'. 'what nationality is she?' i said 'burmese'. the tone changes. 'ok, i will email you later and give you details about where to claim your prize over the weekend' no email. nothing.

somehow I doubt this. quit while you are ahead mate.

If it was true, then it is likely that they where just going to try to get him to buy a timeshare.

Had he said he had a Thai wife then he would likely have got the same response. They would have been hoping that he had a farang wife as anybody with a wife from the region is unlikely to buy anything.

[myauq]

Curious, if they are essentially the same and people can't tell they aren't Thai until they speak, is it really racism? Isn't it racism if the person is say, a different race? Are we suggesting that Thais and Burmese are that different? Perhaps looking at the root cause of the bigoted attitudes would be more productive than pointless fingerpointing at trying to find out who is more ignorant than another.

1 - they are NOT 'essentially the same', and saying they are is like ... well ... 'they all look the same to me' kind of racism discrimination.

2 - if people are 'discriminating' against them because they speak a different language, the reasons they do so are because they are 'burmese' - and not french, english, philipino, or what have you - then this is discrimination based upon race; therefore, they are using language as an indicator of an (inferior) racial identity.

3 - see my first point.

You know what, after typing out something, I changed my mind. We can call it racism if that makes you feel better. And if it will get you to drop the hectoring lecturing tone.

perhaps instead of trying to point fingers at who is worse than who, you might try considering why these attitudes exist among some Thai people and how those attitudes could have developed.

Frankly, given your original closed post and subsequent posts in this thread, it is beginning to look like you aren't actually interested in that kind of discussion.

no - i am not seeking reasons why these have attitudes developed in thai society, or people's opinions about that (though if people want to post about that then that's great). i have never said that. i don't think these attitudes can be changed either.

i simply want to know other peoples' opinions about what seems to be quite extreme attitudes i encounter on a regular basis, attitudes which would otherwise get in the way of living a normal and hassle-free life. i've also never had that much discussion with farangs about the issue, and it's kind of nice to be able to relate my experiences with others.

[bridge]

I can still recall what a Thai man told me a few years ago after a few people tragically lost their lives in the big floods in the south of Thailand: "They not Thai, they Issan". very very sad indeed.

[Alwaysright]

I made it quite clear why your post was closed. Blanket statements as you made are inflammatory and trollish.

If you are suggesting people are "racist" against your girlfriend because she is from Burma, then it seems a bit odd since essentially, they are quite similar.

Perhaps your term "ultranationalistic" is more appropriate in this case .

keeping it to specifics rather than blanket generalizations over who is the worst will find your thread remaining open.

Outrageous SBK! You know dayum well Thais are extremely racist against the Burmese. Similar?! You know how mad you would make ANY Thai for saying they were essentially similar to Burmese? LOL!! I'm still flabbergasted, go ahead and ask your husband if Thais are racist against Burmese. He sounds like a smart guy so will probably give you a straight answer.

He is the one that told me they are essentially the same. personally, he thinks it has nothing to do with race and everything to do with nationalism.

I guess towing the boat people out to see wasn't racism,just brotherly love.

[myauq]

another recent example...

i was asked to fill out a consumer research questionnaire at siam bts. it was about a chain of hotels. i passed all the 'screener' criteria - i.e. had been in thailand a certain amount of time, like shopping, have a combined income above a certain amount, and stay at hotels everytime i holiday in thailand.

right, so a couple of weeks later and a guy from the cr company phones and confirms that my details were correct. he says that i have won a prize, which is a holiday in one of their resort hotels in phuket. great. i need to come to the hotel in silom tomorrow and do a product testing session, and i can claim my prize. great. i said yes.

one final question - 'is your wife thai?' 'no'. 'what nationality is she?' i said 'burmese'. the tone changes. 'ok, i will email you later and give you details about where to claim your prize over the weekend' no email. nothing.

somehow I doubt this. quit while you are ahead mate.

If it was true, then it is likely that they where just going to try to get him to buy a timeshare.

Had he said he had a Thai wife then he would likely have got the same response. They would have been hoping that he had a farang wife as anybody with a wife from the region is unlikely to buy anything.

yep, that's quite possible. though she was with me when we were filling out the questionnaire, so if that's the case then it's a stuff-up in their data collection methodologies.

[rgs2001uk]

I made it quite clear why your post was closed. Blanket statements as you made are inflammatory and trollish.

If you are suggesting people are "racist" against your girlfriend because she is from Burma, then it seems a bit odd since essentially, they are quite similar.

Perhaps your term "ultranationalistic" is more appropriate in this case .

keeping it to specifics rather than blanket generalizations over who is the worst will find your thread remaining open.

Outrageous SBK! You know dayum well Thais are extremely racist against the Burmese. Similar?! You know how mad you would make ANY Thai for saying they were essentially similar to Burmese? LOL!! I'm still flabbergasted, go ahead and ask your husband if Thais are racist against Burmese. He sounds like a smart guy so will probably give you a straight answer.

He is the one that told me they are essentially the same. personally, he thinks it has nothing to do with race and everything to do with nationalism.

Ask your husband to give you a quick history lesson, after that go and check the same history lesson from some other sources.

You only have to watch tv here in Thailand to know what the Thais think about the Burmese people.