Thai Bangkaew Dog

[bergen]

Hi Bergen

Where did you get your Bangkaew dogs from?

My wife's sister got them from someone she knew in - or near Nakhon Nayok.

[billd766]

Hi Bergen

Where did you get your Bangkaew dogs from?

My wife's sister got them from someone she knew in - or near Nakhon Nayok.

Thanks Bergen

I live near Khampaeng Phet about 400 km away.

Rats

[jubby]

Be very aware of what you get with primitive strong willed dogs in Thailand. Any doubts then get a labrador.

I have had very strong willed dogs before in the UK without problems but have never had a primitive breed before.

I have three Thai Ridgebacks now for 6 months. had them from about 5 weeks old. We have a large walled garden, Ideal for them, everything should be fine. We also have a selection of other animals, Ducks, Geese etc. The Dogs have been socialised with the other animals constantly, the dogs also can get constant attention , we even get a dog sitter in when we have to leave them for a few hours but don't seem to need it. They Sleep allday and keep us awake alnight hunting. They bite each other and draw blood everyday. They get more than enough food but will constantly fight over it. I really don't see them as domestic animals .

They have been killing the birds on a regular basis. The first time was quite alarming, they didn't kill the ducks as you would expect accidentally by being too rough; they just wiped 10 ducks out in front of me in a blink of an eye . Cold blooded Killers, They don't eat them either. I've managed to train them in that they will ignore the ducks in my presence.

last night they went on a kill frenzy looks like a Fox got amongst the Chickens . approx 20 Ducks dead.

I can just imagine the devastation and problems if they get out of the garden.

The Bucket man is trying to catch the dogs as I speak.

[longneck]

Billy is tha name off our bangkeaw dog.

Fearless. There is special police bangkeaw school where they train your dog.

We bought him for 4000 baht now worth 70000 baht. But I will never sell him, best dog I ever had.

[bridge]

I have a mate who had this breed of dog - super smart dog. Even as a pup it could open the gate and let itself out. In fact, the dog was a lot smarter than my mate

bridge

Edited July 18, 2009 by bridge

[ad61]

I have a mate who had this breed of dog - super smart dog. Even as a pup it could open the gate and let itself out. In fact, the dog was a lot smarter than my mate

bridge

Ha ha ha ha, good one mate!

[isanbirder]

I had one for four years; beautiful, intelligent, aggressive, and uncontrollable! I guess I'm just not tough enough with my dogs for this breed. I like softies like Alsatians! The Bangkaew was very highly-strung. Once in Chiangmai we had an earthquake, and it went wild; luckily I had it on the lead (it didn't go for me!) and it took me several minutes to quieten it down. The little mongrel which was with us at the time just took the quake in its stride. Finally the BK got terrified in a thunderstorm, got out over the garden wall, and was never seen again. I would never have another.

[F1fanatic]

I don't understand. Why would you be considering a breed that you've heard has characteristics you find undesirable in a dog? Many posters confirm what you've heard,although others don't - so you can assume that the characteristics are common in the breed even if some (due to upbringing or otherwise), are different. Same with any breed.

What are you looking for in a dog? Why not start with that and then find a dog that matches the criteria? Or am I being overly simplistic or missing something here?

[bina]

i think most people get the dog first before finding out that its temperment doesnt match their requirements. and this thread is just to share experiences of those that have owned this breed.

as u can see, several enjoyed them, and several have not. there are several breeds that are like that. usually owners like the look or the colour of the dog, and then find out belatedly that the dog isnt what u thought it would be.

but bangkews are in the category of primitive dog, difficult to deal with, doesnt fit most families pigeon hole. the point being, when u buy a horse, u should know what u want it for. an arabian doesnt fit the same slot as a quarter horse. a bangkeow doesnt fit the same slot as a golden. i would probably love bangkeows since i have a penchant for difficult dogs, genetically breed wise and also those with behavioral problems due to problem owners. my neighbor has a Czech shepherd X wolf bitch and her behavior is fascinating and frightening (she guards his horse).

i keep promising myself that the next time i will be in thailand i will spend more time bugging my husband to search out the thai ridgebacks with and w/o ridges and the bangkews in the villages in his area, and photograph them,and try to understand their genetics... before they get overbred and over developed.

bina

israel

[isanbirder]

Very sensible of ad61 to start this thread. In my case, the BK was an unexpected gift which I couldn't refuse... and I just didn't know what I was taking on. I think many of us adopt a pet with only the vaguest idea of what it is like; my current dog was adopted at 3 years old from Carefor Dogs in Chiangmai... Alsatian X, mostly X. He's a complete fool, but a lovely pet. For those of you in Chiangmai or thereabouts, I recommend supporting CareforDogs, who have a shelter for unwanted dogs on the way from Chiangmai to Hang Dong; for details see their website www.carefordogs.com. In this case, the Alsatian part attracted me, but I chose him just by instinct.

[metisdead]

We had a male and female 3-4 years ago. Didn't listen very well, brave though. The male had a penchant for gnawing on the car despite plenty of other chew toys around, told the misses they had to go up-country, the repairs to the car came to 22,000 baht.

[Joachim]

Hi,

I enjoyed reading the comments about Bang keeow and I do agree that these are dogs with character. I own one now for a year and I will most likely not change for any other breed. I wanted a loyal, intelligent and beautiful dog with character and I sure found what I was looking for.

This breed is certainly no toy dog for old ladies, they are "working dogs" who feel best when in company of an owner who appreciates their characteristics but does not tolerate dominant tendencies. As far as the agression is concerned I had the expirence that the agression does in most of the cases come from other dogs, triggering an agressive reaction in my dog. I take Sam almost every Sunday for a walk in the "walking street" in Chiang Mai and never encountered any unruly behaviour even though it is quite crowded. I do not want my dog to be friendly to people he does not not, just as I do not offer my friendships to strangers. Everyone coming to visit my house frequently respects that it will be the dog who offers his friendlyness first - as he will if not being forced or pushed. And I think that one thing should not be forgotten: even a dog has the right to be dissapointed with a non-understanding owner trying - in his way - to express his feelings.

Due to a bad virus I lost a female Bang Keeow - Molly - who was just wonderful. This was about 8 month ago and I think now is the time to find a new companion for Sam - a puppy Bang Keeow. If anyone expects some puppies soon - preferrably around Chiang Mai - I would be grateful, if you could contact me.

Joachim

[ad61]

Hi,

I enjoyed reading the comments about Bang keeow and I do agree that these are dogs with character. I own one now for a year and I will most likely not change for any other breed. I wanted a loyal, intelligent and beautiful dog with character and I sure found what I was looking for.

This breed is certainly no toy dog for old ladies, they are "working dogs" who feel best when in company of an owner who appreciates their characteristics but does not tolerate dominant tendencies. As far as the agression is concerned I had the expirence that the agression does in most of the cases come from other dogs, triggering an agressive reaction in my dog. I take Sam almost every Sunday for a walk in the "walking street" in Chiang Mai and never encountered any unruly behaviour even though it is quite crowded. I do not want my dog to be friendly to people he does not not, just as I do not offer my friendships to strangers. Everyone coming to visit my house frequently respects that it will be the dog who offers his friendlyness first - as he will if not being forced or pushed. And I think that one thing should not be forgotten: even a dog has the right to be dissapointed with a non-understanding owner trying - in his way - to express his feelings.

Due to a bad virus I lost a female Bang Keeow - Molly - who was just wonderful. This was about 8 month ago and I think now is the time to find a new companion for Sam - a puppy Bang Keeow. If anyone expects some puppies soon - preferrably around Chiang Mai - I would be grateful, if you could contact me.

Joachim

Hi Joachim,

I've acquired a gorgeous female bangkeaw (the one you can see pictured in my avatar) since a bit more than 10 months now; she's coming from the kennel of Khun Krit Namwong, a highly reputable Bangkeaw breeder in Chiang Mai; I would recommend you to give him a call or a visit. i'll PM you his mobile number as well as contact address.

I love Sam's face, how old is he?

A devoted Bangkeaw lovers.

[alllyn]

I enjoyed reading the comments about Bang keeow and I do agree that these are dogs with character. I own one now for a year and I will most likely not change for any other breed. I wanted a loyal, intelligent and beautiful dog with character and I sure found what I was looking for.

This breed is certainly no toy dog for old ladies, they are "working dogs" who feel best when in company of an owner who appreciates their characteristics but does not tolerate dominant tendencies. As far as the agression is concerned I had the expirence that the agression does in most of the cases come from other dogs, triggering an agressive reaction in my dog. I take Sam almost every Sunday for a walk in the "walking street" in Chiang Mai and never encountered any unruly behaviour even though it is quite crowded. I do not want my dog to be friendly to people he does not not, just as I do not offer my friendships to strangers. Everyone coming to visit my house frequently respects that it will be the dog who offers his friendlyness first - as he will if not being forced or pushed. And I think that one thing should not be forgotten: even a dog has the right to be dissapointed with a non-understanding owner trying - in his way - to express his feelings.

Due to a bad virus I lost a female Bang Keeow - Molly - who was just wonderful. This was about 8 month ago and I think now is the time to find a new companion for Sam - a puppy Bang Keeow. If anyone expects some puppies soon - preferrably around Chiang Mai - I would be grateful, if you could contact me.

I would love the phone contact also thanks...

Craig

[phutoie2]

I agree mostly with all the pro's and cons of the Bang Kaew posted here. We have a 2 year old female who according to some Thai breeder website I looked at is not quite perfect. Her ears are too big!.

She is very good at catching all the small critters in the garden and house, will not kill a snake but will bark like mad until it gets bored and goes off.

I once watched her have a one hour confrontation with a long rat snake in the garden.

They can be trained, I walk mine on the lead through the Soi out into the fields and then let her go, it was not easy at first but she comes to you when called back now.

I do believe they have a nasty streak as she can be very snappy with other dogs and as she has been raised in a house with no children I do not trust her with the young ones about.

We had an incident at a family BBQ when she pinned a little Somchai up against the wall who had patted her on the head one time too much!!.

Their coats can attract ticks when they go into the long grass so stock up on good shampoo.

[Pitbullman1]

My wife has owned Bang Kaews for many years, and yes it's true they can be very snappy towards other dogs, and or intruders. She bought her Bang Kaews from the Province where they originated from and that is Phitsanulok. To prove that they are pure Bang Kaews they are tattooed on one of their ears with an identity number.

The story goes that they were bred many years ago at a temple from part dog and part wolf by the 3rd Abbot. As regards to the ticks you can have the dogs injected at the vets whereby no ticks can live on the dogs skin. They do however suffer from skin complaints

My wife's Bang Kaew named Gaew passed away two days ago at the ripe old age of 15 years. God Bless her. Once we were married Gaew stayed at my wife's Mother and Father's home.

I honestly believe that they are a very beautiful animal and would love to own one, but it's the serious skin compliants which puts me off from owning one, so I have turned to Rottweilers and a Pit Bull and both myself and my wife love them to bits. Unlike the Bang Kaews which can be walked on alead through busy streets, you cannot walk a Rottweiler as such, because they are prone to turning on anyone at a given time of their choice. The Pit Bull is great to walk on his lead but the problem is the loose Soi dogs which come out to have a go at him, he will stand no nonsence and instanly go into the death mode. The Police have assured me that it is OK to walk the Pit Bull on his lead as the other dogs should not be out of their owners premises, and if my Pit Bull were to kill another dog, then it's the owner of the other dog who is at fault, and they cannot comeback at me for compenstation etc. but I am afraid it's a no-no for the Rottweilers.

I am lead to believe that the best Bang Kaews come from the very best of breeders in Phitsanulok.

Edited September 28, 2009 by Pitbullman1

[ad61]

Pitbullman1,

All the Bangkaew dogs registered with the Thai Bangkaew breeders kennels association have a pedigree paper, stating the names of their father, mother, grand father, grand mother and have a number tatooed in their left ears, not only the Bangkaews originated from Pitsanuloke.

[ad61]

I've just send you a PM you Craig.

[billd766]

I would like to own a couple of Bangkaew dogs and I have 10 rai of land but unfortunately most of the fences are barbed wire only in broken in a few places as well.

How could I keep the dogs untethered and close to home or would it be a bad plan?

[ad61]

I would like to own a couple of Bangkaew dogs and I have 10 rai of land but unfortunately most of the fences are barbed wire only in broken in a few places as well.

How could I keep the dogs untethered and close to home or would it be a bad plan?

It shouldn't be a problem as long as you acquire them at a young age (one and a half to two month old) as they will immediately bond with you and your familly members. As an example, my male was already 10 month old when we get him and it was very difficult at the begining for him to give us his trust, it took almost 6 month; the female came to us at 60 days of age and reacted immediately different, always coming back to us when called, following us where ever we where going and what ever we where doing, exactly like if we where her parents.

[bina]

just a word of caution on barb wire and dogs; the dogs have to be taught not to go thru the fencing, and haave to be shown the boundries many times. the same for horses and goats actually. dogs need to be taught not to go thru under or climb it since they want to get at intruders, prey, or bitches in heat somewhere else.

bina

israel

[patklang]

They are beautiful looking dogs but,for sure i would not have one,and def not 2.I have had dobbies and alsations and never had one bit of trouble with them biting,running away,fighting each other.My fear would be that a vicious dog,by the owners admittance cannot be trained to come back,now thats scary.

Sounds like the dog is bad or the owner cannot control,but based on what i have read,certainly the owner needs plenty of land to keep one.

[Hgman]

Bang Kaews are wonderful dogs. Alot like German Shepherds where as they are very protective and a little skitish of strangers. They need a large area to dig and play. You will find they will cry to play more than to eat. They must be socialized young or they will become fear biters and your visitors will not want to stay long. I find it best to bring them out when they are very small and meet people and pets. I would also suggest brushing the hair regular from a small puppy or it will be hard to do when they are older. They are very stuborn dogs but want to please if they are rewarded. One of the best dogs I have ever had, great with my children. Good luck. They love to dig and need to dig so if you have the space great if not the beach is a good place for them to blow of energy they can dig for hours.

[stephbuddy]

I have a female 3 1/2 year old Bangkaew and I love her to death. I would not recommend one though. She is extremely loyal to me, but me alone. She has bitten everyone in my family, including children. My other dogs are terrified of her, and she doesn't listen to anyone. She won't let anyone near my house, even if I want them there. She has killed a cat and a chicken and gets into fights with other dogs. I got her when she was 6 weeks old from the streets. She is neutered and very well taken care of. The biggest problem is the aggression. It comes out of nowhere sometimes and she is as fast as lightning! I have tried everything!

[isanbirder]

As with many dogs, the aggression of a Bangkaew is a fear reaction. I've had mine sitting in the midst of a group of children on the floor; the children had no fear, and the Bangkaew would let them play anyway they liked. But any stranger who knows how aggressive they can be, beware!

[thithi]

I think this dog is thai wolf alike. its the local dog from Phitsanulok province which is in the north of thailand.

I had 2 of em before. I bought them from a farm in Phitsanulok province. They were very loyal and smart.. yet so stubborn ...

To pet it, you need some space for them to run and play. This kind of dog does not like being locked in the cage, it can become very aggressive and fierce. It loves its belongings so don't even think of touching it. When there is a stranger, it barks a lot and not going to stop, sometimes they bit. However, it also depends on how you pet and teach them.

My friend owned one. He hit it alot as it was being very stubborn, uncontrollable. The dog became a fierce dog. It bit even its owner.

So make sure you always make it happy. Don't just hit it if it is uncontrollable.

[justinefrantz]

I have a 2 month old Bang Kaew Female.... I just recently brought her back to the school where I teach. There is plenty of room for her to exercise. She came from an estate where she was the dominant puppy and she is now exhibiting lots of fear aggression especially towards my students. When we are at home she will run around like crazy, having fun, but when I try to take her to school with me she becomes shy and will even sometimes snap at the students who approach her too quickly. I do not want to leave her at home alone because of the other dogs around my home. Im afraid that she will end up in a fight with one of them because she does not back down, even though she is still quite small and only 2 months old. Can you give me any advice on how I should handle this behavior before she gets too old??? I really want her to be able to at least be around other people without always growling at them. I don't care if she doesn't always want to make friends.

In the last couple of month I've had and still have several Ban Keaw's in boarding and training.

For sure there are many very sweet and nice Ban Keaw dogs around. Nonetheless the breed is known notoriously for its aggression issues (primarily fear aggression or dominance aggression towards other dogs and also towards people), its wariness of strangers, but also for its enormous faithfullness to its owners.

Bk's are quick learners with a very good memory and a mind of their own.

During the last few months I've had and still have several Ban Keaw's in boarding and training. All of them were/are dogs with a strong character. Now, of course, BK owners with submissive dogs are less likely to board their dog for training at a training school as submissive dogs in general are much easier to handle. So, at my training center I get to see mainly the more difficult ones. Besides the dogs in B&T I've also received several phonecalls of BK's owner who had aggression problems with their dog.

From the dogs in B&T some are (luckily) pups of 3 to 4 months of age. They exhibit behavior such as lots of jumping up and mouthing, with owners' arms full of scratches. Initially they all show fear behavior towards us, who are strangers, and to the other dogs (as most have been taken away from their mother and littermates too early and then raised alone or only with one or two other dogs) and will bite when we try to touch them (what we don't, naturally). As they are so young they adapt quickly and soon trust us. Then the fear behavior changes to one of showing dominance towards other dogs in the other kennels or to the more submissive ones in their own group. They do, however, quickly show submission towards the higher ranks in their group and towards us.

I've had several 4 months old pups showing dominance behavior towards other dogs and already started to lift their paws when peeing.

When these kind of pups do not receive intense socialization (with positive experiences) and immediately proper and consistent guidelines from their owners (which is NOT keeping them 'under control' with a stick) they will quickly gain all sorts of privileges and go up the hierarchical ladder when they age.

By the time they reach their puberties some (especially the males) will start with dominance aggression such as growling, stiffening up during handling, nipping and aggression towards other (male) dogs. These dogs are usually quite unruly with lots of jumping and nipping, pulling on the lead, not coming when called and only paying attention to their owners when it suits them, otherwise they completely ignore their owners and go their own way.

Most of the dominance aggression with biting starts at the age of around 1 1/2 years old, and that is the other group of BK's where BK owners asked for my help.

What many owners do not (want to) realize, unfortunately, is that this problem can only be solved with the full involvement of the owners. As it is much more that the owners have to change their interaction with their dog, than to change only the dog. In fact, changing the dog only without the owners changing does not work, and within the shortest time the dog will exhibit the same aggressive behavior as he did before the behavior modification therapy.

Therefore I agree with other posters that the Ban Keaw, although I do like the breed, it is not the kind of dog for everyone.

If you decide to go for one, because you know you (AND your family) can show sufficient authority (in a non-confrontational way) and you are willing to put lots of time and effort in the education, then please go to a breeder where you can see the mother and father dog, and where the pups are allowed to stay with the mother dog till at least the age of 7 weeks. (and I know that's pretty difficult to find).

When choosing the pup do not choose the one that comes forward, jumps all over you and pushes its sublings away. Take your time, and watch the pups play together. The big bully is not the one you would like as a new member of your family. Also the ones that cower are not the ones you want.

There is lots of info to find on the net on 'how to choose a puppy as your new pet'. Just do a google search.

Hope this helps a bit,

Nienke

[Nienke]

It sounds to me that your puppy feels safe at home and doesn't elsewhere because she hasn't properly learned that yet.

Her school experience with lots of kids has been very (too) overwhelming to her: strange environment, lots of (loud) noises, fast moving kids, and probably many curious staring kids while towering over her and hands coming straight to her head. Pretty scary for such a young puppy.

Unfortunately the whole thing has been such a bad experience for your puppy that she already resolved to (sometimes) snapping in order to protect herself. I truely hope you didn't punish her for the snapping as that more often than not confirms to the dog that kids are bad (punishment occurs only when kids are around and when dog already feels bad about the kids), making that aggression increases in stead of decreases or suppresses the fear-aggression.

Be very careful with the current development. It doesn't sound good to me at all, as it sounds that currently your puppy is building up a serious (and dangerous) dislike of children.

When dogs are scared they choose between three options in order to protect themselves: flight, freeze or fight.

Your puppy is only 2 months old, so she knows she is not strong enough to fight of the scary people and, therefore, most probably chooses to freeze or flee. But when constraint the option of flee-ing falls away, so she resolved to fight = snapping.

When growing up her strength, coordination, balance and skills will improve and with that her confidence that she can protect her self through fight, although the underlying emotion will still be fear.

Best is to start working NOW on changing her mind about children; that is that children are actually fun and that she can trust they won't harm her.

For this is much better to *not* take her to your school for the time being, and start working with your puppy at home, slowly introducing quiet an relaxed kids first, one at the time and with lots of delicious treats.

If there is no way you can leave your pup home (don't know if there are people at home while you are away, as staying alone for long periods of time for a 2 months old pup is not advisable) then I suggest you buy a solid crate where your pup can stay safe and that you keep the kids at least 5 meters away from that crate as well.

*Never ever* punish or correct your dog when it is showing fear and when kids are around.

Work under her threshold.

And very advisable to contact a dog behaviorist who works with positive reinforcement training techniques.

The behaviorist can teach you how to properly socialize your pup and teach her basic manners, how to read your dog's language, and how to recognize when her stress level starts building up indicating to you to take your pup out of the situation or distract her with something nice, and how to change her mind towards that kids are actually great fun.

If you would like more (specific) information, you better can contact me either by pm or email. My email address you can find through my profile.

Nienke,

LuckyDogs Prt. Ltd.,

Dog boarding and training center,

Chiang Mai.

(also board cats)

[Mirkwood]

I must be either missing something or have a very user friendly Bangkeaw.

We have a female one, granted only 3 months old and shes a pussycat. She has the tattoo in her ear etc.

I'll let you know if she grows into a nightmare but so far so good. Mind you, our other dog is an Akita. Maybe we are used to guard dog types. The Bangkeaw has a lovely personality compaired to the Akita.

Wait until somebody starts a thread about keeping an Akita. I'll be waiting.

[dhupads]

<div>We have a gorgeous (see attachment), 2 month old Bangkaew puppy in Chiang Mai that we have to give up very soon, like in 10 days.  She has a heart shaped swatch of white hair on back.,  She's pretty socialized as she plays with the neighborhood dogs during the day, and sleeps in our bed at night.  She's also pretty smart, already knows how to fetch a stick already.  She doesn't need constant attention, but we'd prefer it if there was someone to stay home and play, and not just lock her up for hours at a time while you go out.<div><br></div><div>She still nips a little, but definitely not much, much less than she did when we first brought her home.   She never bites strangers, just us, and only when she wants to play.  A firm "no" stops her every time now.<div><br><div>PM if interested in giving this awesome puppy a new home...we really want to make sure she's taken care of.  </div></div></div></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>